Story Ratings

[Virtuallee]

Why do some readers seem to take such delight in trashing the literary efforts of authors on Literotica? Maybe it’s that I’m overly thin-skinned and too sensitive when it becomes apparent that a reader has low-balled (given a zero rating) to one of my efforts? Regardless, some readers don’t seem to appreciate the amount of time and effort that authors put into their works, to provide free reading material over a complete spectrum of interest to them. They don’t seem to understand (or care) that in many cases those same authors, while seeking constructive criticisms or comments, are also seeking appreciation (in lieu of payment) for their efforts. I’ve read many stories by other authors on Lit, and wondered ‘what gives…?’ Why doesn’t this story get the appreciation it deserves?’
After reading many of the comments, it became apparent that the reader bases his/her rating on ‘what I like,’ and nothing else. There is no appreciation for style, depth of character, consistency, or any other tangible value that a good story must have. I’ve read comments where the reader simply didn’t like anal sex, interracial stories, or some other activity contained in the story. REJECT! They gave it a zero rating. It’s not fair, AND, it’s enough to make some authors seek a more representative evaluation of their works (find another site for their story).
In a lot of cases, and I know they won’t like this, the reader isn’t even QUALIFIED to rate the stories which an author places in Literotica. I’ve said this before—I consider Literotica a great site for literary entertainment, but I’d also suggest a fairer way to rate stories. Frankly, if a story has 10 or 20 5’s, and one zero, it’s obvious that the zero is the result of an unfair assessment of the story. Zero’s have no place here anyway. If an author submits even a poorly written story, the effort is worth something.
I started this thread in hopes that others might chime in with their thoughts. If I’m out of place, so be it, but when I put in a lot of effort to provide an entertainment piece, only to have someone anonymously give it a zero only because he doesn’t agree with (Domination/submission, Interracial stories, Gay/Lesbian stories, etc.), I want to scream!
And of course the one-line, incorrectly constructed comment was replete with incorrect ‘grammer.’ Oh, my stories are written under another pen name, because I know the repercussions that would occur, had this thread been submitted under that name. And, I've taken into consideration that this is only entertainment for many, and an unfair assessment here is not the end of the world. I only wrote this in the interest of suggesting fairness to authors.

 

[sophia jane]

two things

First, I completely agree with you. Having someone give you a low score you no reason is horrible. Some of the writers here take their work seriously, and getting asanine comments or a low score with no comments at all sucks.

Second, here is my dilemna as a reader who is also a writer: If you read a story (and by you, I mean a writer- someone who understands good writing and good storytelling) and there are problems with it, what do you do? Do you leave a low rating? Do you leave a comment? Do you send feedback? How do you know who is receptive to justified criticism?
My problem is that I am very picky. If I read a story and I can't follow it because of the writing, I stop reading it. And I don't rate it. I have never written an author and said "this is shit" (I actually haven't written an author and said anything, but that's beside the point.) But should I write said author and tell them what's wrong with the story?
As a writer I don't want low scores, but I do appreciate constructive criticism. And if I write shit I would rather someone tell me it's shit so I can get better. But I know not all writers (especially the ones who really need the criticism) feel that way. So what do you do?

Boy, I'm glad I got that rant off my chest...

 

[Kirk482002]

Yeah and then some...

I know exactly what you both are saying. I’ve had several stories hit the skids because of 1’s placed without any comment or feedback. I got mad enough last summer to yank most of my best stories, simply because I felt they were still getting blitzed by the 1 creeps.

I know that even a good score for most authors is a 4.6 or a 4.8 for a great story these days. Even the creeps can’t knock the great ones down that far. The problem lies in the stories that get ten to twenty votes and a few 1’s simply knock them right off the radar. It’s sad, but that’s the way it works.

I do agree with the idea of not voting for story lines that the reader doesn’t care for. I don’t know why they bother. My time is too precious to spend reading a story that’s premise turns me off.

A more fair way would be to allow only members that have at least four or so stories to vote along with comments. It wouldn’t be hard to set up. There would be no “Anon” crap, because their vote and comment or critique would be visible for all to see. It would certainly stop the 1’s (unless the story was truly hideous) and keep someone from becoming a total ass. You could still allow “anon” feedback to the author for non members. I believe it would be the only way to stop the creeps.

My two cents….

Kirk

 

[hmmnmm]

I know this may be too complicated for these purposes - but I've lately wondered about suggesting a different scoring system. Instead of scoring the Whole Story, the reader is given a list of factors that they rate. For example, the grammar was terrible so that goes low. The Idea behind the story was so-so, so there goes a middle score. The dialogue (if any) was poor/fair/good/excellent. The characterization was poor/fair/good/excellent... and the list could certainly go long. Maybe have three to five things like that. Then if the reader wished to leave additional comments have a space for that. Then, if a writer received a low vote (or a high vote) instead of wondering WHY, they may get an idea just why and then they could decide whether it is something they care to fix or something that they will not fix and that's the way it goes.
Of course, in the end, the if the writer is pleased with the work (flaws accepted - anyone can always find flaws in almost anything), then the rest is trivial.

 

[Heyokah Dreams]

Just a newbie...but

I'm not emtirely sure of course, but it seems to me that it is possible some of the low ratings are due to other writers trying to sabotage someone else's work. Personally, I'm with the rest here and will not rate if the story I've read doesn't merit my time to finish reading.

I put a lot of time, effort and consideration in my stories and attempt to build the characters before getting into the "meat" of the story. I think setup is paramount. I've seen others here that do the same.

My thinking is that someone approves a story to allow it here and since there are considerations as to whether or not it makes it, perhaps there should be a base score for a story to start with. I imagine this might be difficult but there needs to be someone to assure each of us that submits to feel good about where or work stands and just how much of the rating is valid.

I agree that there should possibly be some way to validate scores. I've had 2 submissions so far and am considering more. However, when it occurs that a story like my last one is doing very well, 4.62 with 39 votes and over 13K reads and the following day I check and my rating has dropped to 4.53 with a single vote added that someone has lowballed my story. Possibly the worse thing about this is that I truly feel that it may have been someone trying to make their story seem better for competition by pulling mine down. Perhaps I am wrong, who knows? I do know however that rating someone's work should be done on merit and warrants some qualifications from the voter. Opinion does not qualify as expertise.

By the way, no one has commented as of yet, though I am sure there have been several 5 votes for me to stay as high as I have thusfar. Maybe being able to vote shoud require the voter to commentas to why the rating was given.

Just my 2 coppers

 

[brightlyiburn]

Unfortunately, you get that stuff. You get bored, talentless people who go through, see that you have talent, and decide to trash you.
The whole voting a story low simply because you don't like the catergory is bullshit, as well. I'm experiencing a bit of that more recently, because I moved into the Non-consent/Reluctance catergory. I warned people that it wasn't like my other work, but they didn't listen. And to leave zeros on the third chapter of something...what the heck are you doing reading three chapters of something you don't like?
It's stupid. And there will always be people who do that sort of thing. You may get people who tell you to just ignore those things, but I personally think you have every right to get pissed off. None of those people would like it if something similar happened to them and they'd get pissed off, so why shouldn't you? Sometimes in life you need to throw yourself a little temper tantrum. Even if you just need to vent, you can always drop me a PM. Believe me, I can totally understand where you're coming from.

 

[spyro1123]

I agree with not giving a poor rating because you dont like the subject of a story. i have however panned a couple of stories, i do try to leave the author some idea of why i gave it a low score. the only ones that i have given realy bad scores were practically un-readable and had no redeaming qualities(ie. an interesting premis). Obviously the writer did not make the effort to make their work understandable so why should i give them credit for it? with those i view it as a warning to other readers that they shouldn't bother.

That said if i make it to the end of a story it almost always gets at least a 3. 4s and 5s are not uncommon. i have gotten to be pretty snobby about the stories i read though. Mostly unless an author asks for comments i dont read very many stories that dont have an H next to them. I know i probably miss some good stories but i only have so much time, and i have read so many that were either boring or poorly written that i guess i am a little jaded. I do try to read a few of the newest stories that dont have enough votes yet.

Rarely have i seen a realy good story held down for a prolonged period. Two of mine took a dip for a while though so i understand the frustration.

Since you are allowed to it might not be a bad idea to make a seperate screen name if you are playing with themes that your regular readers might not like. The pros do it when they switch genres. You could even link to it in your profile (along with a suitable warning) so readers who are interested in seeing a different side of you can. It might slow down those readers who love you but skip the disclaimer at the start of your story and are shocked by the content.

 

[jeffreysub]

well one of my stories (The Big Rape Ch. 1) got a score of 4.23 out of 149 votes... I don't know if that is a good thing or not though. I happen to feel that is a decent vote but can't hope but feel that other authors are better writers than me so I always try to improve which is why I am getting away from my previous interest and into writing other stuff.

The question is what do people like to read about in erotica? I would really like to know more so I can please people, especially women since most of my previous stuff was more towards pleasing general audience I would like to get down and gritty with what to do in pleasing the female side of the gender.

 

[Virtuallee]

I started this thread with hopes that there would be some feedback from readers who do 'inflict' low-ball ratings on stories, based on their personal, arbitrary predjudices. The prevailing consensus thus far has been that there is no valid rationale for assigning a zero rating to a perfectly constructed, and otherwise sound work by an author. However, that rationale has apparently come from those who have suffered (and wanted to scream, 'WHY?') from those who deemed the story of no social redeeming value.
What I'm asking for those who want to know, is 'WHY?' Why do you feel it necessary or appropriate to low-ball the works of an author, simply because you don't personally like the subject matter? You don't have to give a name... Most of us know you as 'Anonymous,' anyway.

 

[Extreme Bohunk]

Everybody's a critic

Hey Virtual,
Try not to take the 1's & 0's so personal. FYI: There's no shortage of assholes out there. The factory that makes them is open 24/7, 365 days a year. When we put something out in public, there's bound to be a few who have nothing better to do than rip on it, even though they've never typed word one themselves. (I believe they're called Trolls) I learned a long time ago, if the 'public' loves you, there's a good chance that you're putting out 'cotton candy' work, and if your peers love you, there's a good chance the 'public' doesn't 'get' what you're writing. I had one 'expert' low-ball a story of mine because it was too long. Apparenly, the storyline got in the way of the smut (the nerve of me!) Keep writing and learn to roll with the punches.

 

[Virtuallee]

My last utterances on this topic (famous last words, eh?): Maybe these guys WANT us to scream, vent, and bitch. It lets them know that we're AWARE of them. Just as we're aware of the hackers who attempt to sabotage the Internet for the sheer sense of exhilaration they get from doing it. They're all about on the same social level. The difference between them is that the HACKER HAS SOME TALENT, even though he doesn't know how to go about putting it to productive use. There. I've vented. Maybe they'll get some satisfaction from reading this thread. Now I can go about doing what I like to do (write), and they'll continue to do what they always do, ANONYMOUSLY (but then, that's another story/thread, isn't it...).

 

[DavidJ]

Remember the big picture

I read all the previous responses and I couldnt help but laugh. Why? Because I just recently wrote my first story and at first I was watching my rating like a stockbroker watches the Dow Jones.....any fluctuation in the score and I was labeling myself either Mark Twain or Al Bundy. I think the previous responses covered the whole spectrum as to why a good story gets dinged and I believe there is merit in each and every one of them. Even, sadly, the one accusing other authors of sabotage. Anytime you are dealing with humans anything is possible.

But, happily, it cuts both ways.

My story had six chapters and the scores ranged from 4.5 to 4.8 so overall I did pretty good. It was the ultra positive comments and emails I received, however, that eventually made the rating irrelevant to me. I got one bad email and at first it bugged the shit out of me but when I put it against all the positive ones I received I saw the futility and stupidity of trying to cope with the negative one. Sometimes, I think, we let our vanity get in the way of what we really accomplished. The score, the rating, the comment, the award....become paramount. I dont claim to be above it because I too fell victim to that trap at first and I want to win or be recognized as bad as the next person. But I still accomplished what I set out to do good score or not.

I took another human being out of their real world and took them into mine. I entertained them, made them laugh, made them happy, made them dream, made them fantasize, made them feel what I was saying. I took them, if only briefly, to a better place. What else can I do? What else am I suppose to do? Am I suppose to feel bad because I didnt please everybody 100 percent? There is no answers to those questions and its futile to even try.

I just know that my story made alot of people happy. I did that. And no negative comments, bad emails, or low score can ever take that away from me. Nor will I ever let it. Nor should you.

 

[4degrees]

any fluctuation in the score and I was labeling myself either Mark Twain or Al Bundy.

hey Al Bundy is a pretty cool dude...

 

[Xploremyworld]

David,

I enjoyed your response, and as with several other responses to my initial thread, I learned some things. You're right... it's virtually impossible to please everyone's tastes in erotica writings. I've learned that my sense of accomplishment needs to come from WITHIN. I had that sense before submitting any of my stories, but when some readers didn't express the same sense of satisfaction that I had as an author, there was a level of disappointment--which translated into, 'don't they recognize the talent I poured into this story?' I overcame that initial disappointment, but then ran into the readers who 'lowballs' any writing that ventures outside of his comfort zone. That, I couldn't condone (and still don't). I feel that ALL writers, from the neophyte to the experienced (yourself included), seek VALIDATION from others about their efforts. Not necessarily acclaim or glory, but certainly VALIDATION. Unfortunately, I found there are a sizeable number of readers of our material who are not willing, nor even capable of providing that acknowledgement. I no longer concern myself with ratings, number of reads, comments, etc. My satisfaction emanates from my own knowledge of my abilities. As I said previously, I've vented, I've learned, and I've moved on...

 

[Extreme Bohunk]

any fluctuation in the score and I was labeling myself either Mark Twain or Al Bundy.

It's a little known fact that Mark Twain created Al Bundy,
the original title was 'Married with Chitlins'
I'm sorry, I'll just go now.

 

[sadsac]

Ho Hum...

... fascinated to read the depth of feelings, so poignantly expressed in this thread. And of course, every one of them is right, so what to do?

May I humbly suggest a resounding "NOTHING".

We authors need our egos stroking, and it's nice when we can control the input... edit it so to speak.

But as in this case, if we cannot, then I just chuckle at the obvious anomalies, and wonder a little sadly about those unhappy folks out there.

Unfortunately, there seems to be more and more of them, these days.

pete.

 

[MissLusty]

Basically there are a few reasons for low ratings.
*Your story isn't well written or people don't like the ideas behind it.
*Your on a top list (people like to vote people off these lists).
*Your writing is great and people are envious of your talent.
*Trolls are going around randomly bombing stories.
*You've made a few enemies of lit.
*Your mother has found out what you've been writing in your spare time and is trying to discourage you to not continue.

The above are reasons that I've heard from authors around Lit in my discussions with them. And yes something similar did happen like that last one!!

 

[davidwatts]

Basically there are a few reasons for low ratings.
*Your story isn't well written or people don't like the ideas behind it.
*Your on a top list (people like to vote people off these lists).
*Your writing is great and people are envious of your talent.
*Trolls are going around randomly bombing stories.
*You've made a few enemies of lit.
*Your mother has found out what you've been writing in your spare time and is trying to discourage you to not continue.

The above are reasons that I've heard from authors around Lit in my discussions with them. And yes something similar did happen like that last one!!

I've heard them all a hundred times before, except for the last one. Now that one is priceless, and the story might be worthy of a try in the humor/satire category.

 

[Virtuallee]

... fascinated to read the depth of feelings, so poignantly expressed in this thread. And of course, every one of them is right, so what to do?

May I humbly suggest a resounding "NOTHING".

We authors need our egos stroking, and it's nice when we can control the input... edit it so to speak.

But as in this case, if we cannot, then I just chuckle at the obvious anomalies, and wonder a little sadly about those unhappy folks out there.

Unfortunately, there seems to be more and more of them, these days.

pete.

Pete...
You're right, to a point. Authors are like real people--we do like having our egos stroked. I'm not so sure we necessarily want to control input, however. We're just commiserating over how arbitrary some of the input is, particularly those brain-dead trolls who seem to relish TRASHING our work. We don't all NEED the highest ratings, but to a person, I think we all want validation of our talents, or at least recognition of our efforts. To have someone TRASH (not just give a low score) your work, and call you vile names for even writing it can be tatamount to having someone splash graffiti all over your possessions (that is likely a bit 'over the top,' but I hope you get my meaning).
As to what we can do about it... I think we're doing about all that can be done. We're using this thread to give visibility to the issue. After all, that's what the Discussion Board is for, right? Thanks.

 

[Virtuallee]

Basically there are a few reasons for low ratings.
*Your story isn't well written or people don't like the ideas behind it.
*Your on a top list (people like to vote people off these lists).
*Your writing is great and people are envious of your talent.
*Trolls are going around randomly bombing stories.
*You've made a few enemies of lit.
*Your mother has found out what you've been writing in your spare time and is trying to discourage you to not continue.

The above are reasons that I've heard from authors around Lit in my discussions with them. And yes something similar did happen like that last one!!

MissLusty

I agree with all of the reasons you stated for low ratings. One of them I had avoided even considering, because I didn't WANT to think that an AUTHOR would TRASH another person's work. But after having several of my works drop significantly (they both had been Top Ten stories) in 24 hours, I had to wonder. At least, in their hearts they know their deeds taint what ever acknowledgements they achieve. A troll by any other name.

 

[sadsac]

My final observation.... I HOPE!

I think I just had the ultimate rating on one of my stories, and I'm going to share it with you, even though my comments do "put down" the instigator. I apologise for this.

Quote: Loved your story, but must point out a GLARING ERROR! In the text, you mention "...we were the cynosure of all eyes.." This should be "...we were a sight for sore eyes..."

At least he cares....

pete.

 

[GirlMidnite]

I started this thread with hopes that there would be some feedback from readers who do 'inflict' low-ball ratings on stories, based on their personal, arbitrary predjudices. The prevailing consensus thus far has been that there is no valid rationale for assigning a zero rating to a perfectly constructed, and otherwise sound work by an author. However, that rationale has apparently come from those who have suffered (and wanted to scream, 'WHY?') from those who deemed the story of no social redeeming value.
What I'm asking for those who want to know, is 'WHY?' Why do you feel it necessary or appropriate to low-ball the works of an author, simply because you don't personally like the subject matter? You don't have to give a name... Most of us know you as 'Anonymous,' anyway.

Anyone who has ever worked a telecommunications job knows that covert sociopathy isn't all that uncommon. The internet is great breeding ground for people like this who can 'troll' without their identity being revealed.

I suspect I was trolled as the low point votes seem to coincide with either interactions or topics I participate in on the Lit forums. Some of them occured before. If my story was genuinely poor then I would understand if I got poor marks, however, the story was rated in the top 50 originally, and the mark was drastically reduced by a series of extremely low votes (it's possible that it's not trolling but my story was one you either love or hate.)

But the only way to prevent it would either for Lit to put in place a 'panel' service where people could receive votes from informed judges of erotic/pornographic writing. Or, voters can be revealed so that they are held accountable for their votes. However, if the latter case was to happen people would be less likely to vote.

Alternatively, the rating system could be removed and replaced with a positive voting system, so that people would only 'vote' for enjoying the story, or there could be special votes, and stories would be ranked by how many votes they receive within a day/week/month blah etc, or what type of votes they receive (e.g. how sexy it is, how well written it is etc.)

 

[Virtuallee]

An example about the peculiarities of how different readers rate the same story:
Reader A is very liberal. He starts by assigning each story a five, and deducts points only if he finds significant flaws or inconsistencies in the way the story is told, spelling, lack of knowledge about the subject matter, etc.
Reader B is very demanding. She requires specific objectives be met by the author, and only assigns a perfect five score to outstanding stories, maybe only one out of every 50 stories she reads. A story which receives a four from her is a good story, by her standards.
Everything else being equal, most of us probably would want Reader A to review our work. Conversely, we'd rather NOT be reviewed by Reader B. Even though she may be more fair and objective, she is someone who can wreak havoc to an author seeking the satisfaction of seeing their story high in the 'Top List.'
When we open our submissions up to reader's comments and votes, we are aware that it's an arbitrary and subjective system. We go with what's in place, and hope for the best.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Unfortunately the authors voting others down out of persoanl reasons not related to the merit or lack of in the story they are voting on is all too true. I have heard it more than once and also had one admit they had done just that and not because they thought the story was shit. Add to that the frustration of getting great feedback from people who have not taken the time to vote at all and it makes you reassess the effectiveness and importance of voting scores. I have thought a good system might be to issue everyone who wants to vote with an anonymous number, but one they must always use when voting so if they habitually vote down certain authors it begins to show....but not overly sure even that would work in a huge way.

Over time I have realised it is far more rewarding to get feedback from people, both good and bad. It is a sign that your writing has had enough impact on them to actually comment on it....far more effort required than voting. I think most of us write in the hope we are read and/or raise some emotions in those who do read our words......even negative feedback is a sign this goal has been reached.

Catalina

 

[sadsac]

I admit it.... I have finally succumbed to my innate resentment, against all these ass-holes who trash.

And this, after my high sounding pontification about ignoring these bastards.

One of my recent submissions - The Concubines - was running a perfect 5.0 after 10 votes, then slipped to a 4.7 after 17.

Tell me that isn't trashing!

Anyhow, I have taken all my stories off the voting feature, fuck all you ass-holes out there, who have probably never written an original piece of literature in your lives.

I did leave my poetry for you to trash.... go right ahead, you probably won't understand it anyway...

Authors.... UNITE!

pete.