Story Outline

[RoperTrace]

Can anyone on here recommend an outline resource? And please don't respond if you're a died-in-the-wool pantser. That's how I've written 20+ stories with almost 2 million views, and it's not working for me any more.

I watched a successful writer on YT say that all of her published works have been when using an outline. She said she started dozens as a pantser and none of them were ever completed. I learned some basic outlining techniques in grade 12 English, and they worked fine for me when working on a meeting prep. The author I was mentioning doesn't sell outline structures, but does occasionally run a live writing session online. I hope to attend her next one.

I'm interested in the format(s) that writers on here are using. I have two part 02's stuck currently and my old-ways just aren't clicking any longer. TIA

p.s. I have done searches on Lit.com and came up empty or not-related. When searching online(Google), almost everything that comes back is on self-publishing, which in my mind is the next step after a story has been finished. And they talk about using your outline, but not how to outline.

 

[StillStunned]

The big one is Save the Cat. Originally it was developed for screenplays, but it's been modified for novel writing.

Molly McCowan also has a good book called Effective Editing that offers some useful tips. The audiobook is available for free from the Great Courses.

 

[mildlyaroused]

Save the Cat does indeed work well as a base outline that you can shift around to fit your need. This adaptation of the original screenplay plan is for novels, and has helped me through a few difficult periods with novels.

 

[THBGato]

Another vote for Save the Cat.

Stephen King's book "On writing" is also very insightful.

Have you come across Litopia? They have some brilliant resources. You can join for free as long as you don't mind ads.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I’m probably being and not understanding the question, but I do my outlines as simple bullet lists (with indented sub-lists as I’m me ) in Word. I amend when change my mind and delete as I write that bit.

I’m probably not understanding and you are talking about something more sophisticated.

Emily

 

[StillStunned]

I’m probably being and not understanding the question, but I do my outlines as simple bullet lists (with indented sub-lists as I’m me ) in Word. I amend when change my mind and delete as I write that bit.

I’m probably not understanding and you are talking about something more sophisticated.

Emily

Save the Cat is quite elaborate, with three acts and fifteen plot beats, all with predefined plot elements and lengths. It also defines story types along non-traditional (but very insightful) lines.

I've never used it myself - the longest story I've ever written is just under 20k words - but it's quite highly regarded.

There's a summary here: https://www.campfirewriting.com/learn/save-the-cat-story-structure

 

[EmilyMiller]

I know all plots follow a few basic shapes, but not sure I’d want to work within a framework I hadn’t written from scratch.

Maybe if I was writing a 500,000 word saga.

Emily

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I don't outline, I storyboard.

I begin with the premise for the story. From this I start developing the main characters, the setting(s), and key themes that I envision for the story to align with the premise. This is usually followed by the development of a timeline for both the characters' lives to this point and for the story itself.

As I start developing the story, research into factual elements within it will often either lead me to new ideas or alter those I already have. The sequence of events may get shifted around, additional characters introduced, new conflicts confronted, or the entire premise as originally envisioned could get changed. That's fine because all of my building blocks of the story are available for me to play with as I choose.

I find the other advantage to this approach for me is the flexibility it provides for the use of allusion in other stories to the details of another. All of my storyboard elements for each story I have written are contained within a single Excel file that I can easily review and utilize in the future.

 

[SouthernCrossfire]

I know all plots follow a few basic shapes, but not sure I’d want to work within a framework I hadn’t written from scratch.

I agree with Emily, particularly in the current environment where any reliance on outside assistance may result in a question about AI contributions. Doing your own outline isn't that hard though, particularly if you do some advance planning in your head before committing anything to the computer.

With this being in my head, I usually start with a short synopsis of the story that gives me an opening, a few main plot points, and, if I'm lucky, an ending before I start forgetting things. Once it gets typed, that often gets expanded, with more points, characters, etc., being added. Then, like Emily, I convert the original synopsis into a series of lines or bullet points and add more as needed to fill it out. With my outline in the story file, I overwrite the applicable lines as I go and add more when needed as the story is tweaked to reach the desired ending.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I agree with Emily, particularly in the current environment where any reliance on outside assistance may result in a question about AI contributions. Doing your own outline isn't that hard though, particularly if you do some advance planning in your head before committing anything to the computer.

With this being in my head, I usually start with a short synopsis of the story that gives me an opening, a few main plot points, and, if I'm lucky, an ending before I start forgetting things. Once it gets typed, that often gets expanded, with more points, characters, etc., being added. Then, like Emily, I convert the original synopsis into a series of lines or bullet points and add more as needed to fill it out. With my outline in the story file, I overwrite the applicable lines as I go and add more when needed as the story is tweaked to reach the desired ending.

I’ll add, as I’ve said before, I’m kinda hybrid in my approach.

When I have an idea, I mostly just start writing. This is to test if it has legs and if l’m into the characters. After I’ve written say 1-2,000 words, I stop and consider.

If think I can realize the idea in a short story, say another 5k words or less, then I just keep writing as it won’t be complicated enough to merit a more structured approach.

If it feels like the story needs to be longer, then I’ll start with what I want to achieve - not necessarily the ending per se, but what the story is about. Then I flesh out how I get there.

I’ll often - as with something I’m doing now - have options. So, I want X to end up with Y at the end, having gone through Z. But then, I could get there by A doing B or instead by A doing C and D.

I then tend to work back and sometimes it becomes obvious which of the options to take. Other times I need to write more, and the path becomes clearer as the characters become more established, or other plot elements develop.

I often run my options by friends - sometimes what they reply helps, others, just the act of communicating the options to someone crystallizes things for me.

Emily

 

[RoperTrace]

I don't outline, I storyboard.

I begin with the premise for the story. From this I start developing the main characters, the setting(s), and key themes that I envision for the story to align with the premise. This is usually followed by the development of a timeline for both the characters' lives to this point and for the story itself.

As I start developing the story, research into factual elements within it will often either lead me to new ideas or alter those I already have. The sequence of events may get shifted around, additional characters introduced, new conflicts confronted, or the entire premise as originally envisioned could get changed. That's fine because all of my building blocks of the story are available for me to play with as I choose.

I find the other advantage to this approach for me is the flexibility it provides for the use of allusion in other stories to the details of another. All of my storyboard elements for each story I have written are contained within a single Excel file that I can easily review and utilize in the future.

The storyboard idea came up before, and I asked the suggester if he/she could share something on making a SB. They refused. Believe it or not, I had a quick one-day seminar training on SB's by a representative of Disney many years ago. My company was making products with Disney's approval and at their request, and they wanted us to use their SB idea for getting a new product from design, approval, production and finally marketing the product. It was geared towards engineering projects in my own case, and I kept none of my notes on the process. I had just started writing for my own use at that time.

 

[intim8]

I hear a lot of good things about Save the Cat, though it almost ruined me, and it seems geared toward certain genres more than others. "Thrillers" and action stories. There's also the "Hero's Journey" structure. If I was a plotter, both seem like they would be pretty useful. Not sure how well either of those would work here for "Boy meets girl, boy bangs the hell out of girl" stories.

As a pantser, one thing I've done on longer works is to pants something, then go back through it and extract an outline from what emerged, then write to that. Kind of a hybrid approach, let the plotting be discovered. Like treating pantsing as a brainstorming session rather than a story draft.

If your looking for ideas on structuring, YouTube has a lot of good videos from actual writers about it.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

The big one is Save the Cat. Originally it was developed for screenplays, but it's been modified for novel writing.

Save the Cat is more a template of a specific outline. If you want all of your stories to structure the same and the same as everyone else's go for it.

I’m probably being and not understanding the question, but I do my outlines as simple bullet lists (with indented sub-lists as I’m me ) in Word. I amend when change my mind and delete as I write that bit.

I point form incessantly, whether it's plotting out a scene or putting scenes in order on a plot skeleton. Some are more detailed than others. I do not care how pretty anything looks at all. That's what drafting/editing is for. I just write down what's in my head. If the ideas are coming too slow or too fast, I just jot them down in point form. If the ideas are coming just right, then I start fleshing out actual prose. But the thing is that you can always cut and paste and move your notes around. This is the mechanics at least of my plotting and I am an 85-90% plotter.

I don't outline, I storyboard.

Interesting. I would imagine that the principles are just the same as what I do, but more visual? Curious for you to elaborate.

Like I said, I'm at least an 80% plotter. The first thing that I do is brainstorm, sometimes for days over a few weeks. At some point I get to where I have to start jotting stuff down. Sometimes I go straight to plot skeleton but often I just write a scene or two that I have in my head and then see how things could plot from there. It all depends how much actual plot comes from my brainstorm. After a couple of scenes, I need to start connecting some plot and I need that because the motives of the characters is always going to drive the plot. So with these couple of scenes I think and feel what the characters think and feel and figure out how things could would or should go from there, or to there (often do not write chronologically, it can handcuff you), or failing that just figure out something else that these characters might do. Then I jot it down and see how it might connect. Usually at this point I start working on plot skeleton, again it's just point form. Point form eventually through my integrated plotting/drafting/editing process, point form becomes fleshed sentences and paragraphs and then honed into smooth prose. I don't have to get the entire plot skeletonned before fleshing anything, particularly if it's a longer story or has more plot twists (more length does not necessarily equal more plot). I never let process get in the way of progress. Time is too valuable for that. If I'm stuck on plot, I move to flesh out a scene somewhere and I'll figure out that plot later. I jump around chronologically when I write. Even in my 750-word piece I jumped from beginning to end to middle and all around I have no idea how many times. If I get an idea later in the plot that would work great if foreshadowed earlier, I'll go back and integrate it. Nothing is sacred. Anything can be made better and improved until the editing is done.

To sum up my methods, brainstorm begets characters and scenes, maybe plot, then it becomes point form, which gets arranged and built, which becomes fleshed sentences, which becomes polished prose.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Like I said, I'm at least an 80% plotter. The first thing that I do is...

This is 90% me. I used to spend ages plotting everything out during daily walks. I'm walking less the days and also more confident as a write, so I might put a scene down (or even just dialogue) if it's cooked in my brain. I do try to stick to chronological order when writing, but am not afraid to skip over a difficult scene if I'm sure everything is a 'fixed point'.

Regarding Save the Cat, it's probably worth keeping around and asking yourself 'would any of these beats improve my story' but I wouldn't stick to it slavishly.

For shortish stories my process tends to go.

1. Here's a spark of an idea (Sexy witch meets a biker gang)
2. What's the actual point of the story? (Sexist violent men humbled)
3. What happens in the story (as in a complete timeline of events and backstory)
4. Which scenes does the reader actually need to see and from whos perspective?
- For sexy stories this often includes the 'meet', the 'date', the 'sex' and then 'breakfast after' (doesn't need to actually be breakfast). But some of these can be skipped or combined.
5. A paragraph of each chapter or scene with the important points that absolutely need to be hit.
6. Prose.