Story length question.

[Anomandaris]

Hi folks.

New to lit, as an author anyway. I've been amembe rforever, but somehow can't access my old account, and never did anything with it anyway. I've been a reader for years and years.

Anyhow, just wondering what everyone thought was a good word count for a chapter of a multi part story?

 

[PennLady]

This is one of those no-right-answer questions.

Personally, I post 8-12k word chapters -- approx 3-4 Lit screen pages -- when doing a multi-part story. I used to post on another site where they had no limit, but the site admin herself preferred to keep things to about 10k. Over at LushStories, they have a 10k word limit, and readers over there are accustomed to reading things in I'd say 2-3k word blocks.

Anyway, I myself don't usually have time to read much more than 3-4 screen pages here, so I don't like to ask people to read more than that. I will make exceptions, like contest stories, and if I can't find a good place to break a chapter. You can't have hard-and-fast rules.

So there you go. Not exactly an answer, but one person's experience. I will say, too, that I have rarely (ever?) seen reader comments complaining a submission was too long, but I have seen a lot where they note that they thought it was too short.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Like PL says, short stories in print are usually about 21 pages - about 3 lit pages.

If you want something longer a split into chapters works.

 

[oggbashan]

Whatever works is right.

If the reader likes the story, the length is unimportant.

I have chapters of 750 words, and 10,000 words.

 

[PennLady]

Whatever works is right.

If the reader likes the story, the length is unimportant.

I have chapters of 750 words, and 10,000 words.

I agree with whatever works, perhaps less so with the second statement. If a reader likes the story, in my experience they want more of it as soon as they can have it, which is a compliment to the author. If you feel a chapter is complete at 750 words, then good, but most readers will probably want more. I've certainly seen a lot of chapters that run one or two Lit pages and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[oggbashan]

I agree with whatever works, perhaps less so with the second statement. If a reader likes the story, in my experience they want more of it as soon as they can have it, which is a compliment to the author. If you feel a chapter is complete at 750 words, then good, but most readers will probably want more. I've certainly seen a lot of chapters that run one or two Lit pages and there's nothing wrong with that.

I have a story that has 15 chapters that are only 50 words each, and complete stories that are only 50 words (submitted in sets of 15 to fit the 750 word minimum).

If the story is complete in 750 words, why use more?

 

[PennLady]

I have a story that has 15 chapters that are only 50 words each, and complete stories that are only 50 words (submitted in sets of 15 to fit the 750 word minimum).

If the story is complete in 750 words, why use more?

I'd say that's different. If you are specifically attempting to tell a story in chapters that short, to reach that limit, that's one thing. The OP asked for guidance on posting chapters of a multi-part story, and I could only answer based on my own experience. I'm assuming, and perhaps I shouldn't, that the OP is talking about a more conventional novel-length story.

I'm not advising using any more words than necessary to tell any story.

 

[lance gt]

Whatever works is right.

If the reader likes the story, the length is unimportant.

I have chapters of 750 words, and 10,000 words.

I agree Ogg. I have chapters hitting upwards of 25k-35k per and my readers enjoy them greatly. I think it's more to do with content, than length, that appeals to them. They're happy with all the chapters, regardless of length. Most of my latest story is up to 6 Lit pages in length, some shorter. I feel I have to write as much as needed to explain what is happening in that chapter and set up the next one.

 

[RodenAddison]

I'm beginning to think three pages is max. Two pages is about 7500. People coming for a quick read will likely be more inclined to the two page stories.

That said, I am considering for chapter stories, two pages for the first chapter, then three or just into the fourth page for following chapters. That way the people looking for a short story may be more likely to read the first of the series, and those who like them, will be happier with slightly longer chapters following.

Interesting thread. Any other thoughts?

 

[David39]

well down

 

[PennLady]

Interesting thread. Any other thoughts?

I find that now when I write, I tend to write in those 8-12k blocks. Once I start hitting about 18 Word pages, I kind of check where I am and see if I need to start wrapping up, or if it's already there. Not always -- the last chapter I wrote hit 30 pages (although it looks like I will split it in half when I post).

I just find that 10k is about what I have time for. I'm married and have two kids one of whom is 4yo and home with me during the day, so that doesn't leave a lot of time for reading stories (I wish I did have more time for that) on Lit. So if I check and a story is five pages or so, I click off, b/c I know I won't be able to finish it.

But again, that's just one person. If I didn't feel I could split the chapter I mentioned above, I wouldn't, and it would post as five or six pages and that would be fine.

And as I said, a lot depends on the site and what the readers there are used to. When I first started posting at LushStories, I got a lot of comments that while my stories were good, I should post in smaller blocks. Plus, the site itself won't take a submission longer than 10k words (or 40k characters). There are so many variables that it's hard to answer a question like this.

 

[oggbashan]

The question that has been asked before, mainly in association with NaNoWriMo threads, is:

How long is a novel?

The answer seems to be about 350,000 words which is far more than the NaNoWriMo target of 50,000 in a month.

The internet and e-readers such as Kindle have changed the demand for novels. Twenty years ago there was little demand or market for short stories or novellas. Now they can be sold electronically.

Fifty years ago there were many magazines that would take short stories or novellas. Most of them have now ceased to publish because their reading public moved on to cheap formulaic paperback novels. The SF magazines of the 1940s and 1950s encouraged many SF authors that went on to become major authors of novels such as Isaac Asimov, Poul Anderson.

My opinion is that a Literotica novel, whether split into chapters when posted or not, should be about 50,000 words...

...but a quick trawl of the Novels and Novella category will show that anything goes.

 

[estragon]

Indeed, anything goes.

But for a site like this, my concern is reader attention span. It seems to be getting shorter and shorter, like the specialist who knows more and more about less and less until s/he knows everything about nothing. The computer is the ultimate instant gratification machine, and if the reader hasn't gotten off, or hasn't had an Aristotelian purgation of pity and fear, by page 2, game over for the writer.

Now someone will quote my own exception to the foregoing, Grandmaster Sir_Nathan's 30-plus Lit page masterpiece, "Culture_Shock".

 

[soflabbwlvr]

I try very hard to keep my submissions around 3-4 Lit. pages, or 10-12,000 words. That's about all I have to time to read in one sitting, so I don't want my readers to do what I would not do myself.

That being said, I have a number of submissions in the 15-18,000 word range. If there is a natural chapter break, I will break it up. But if it doesn't make sense, then I leave it at that length.

 

[RodenAddison]

Novel, Novella, Novellette and Short Story Lengths

How long is a novel?

The answer seems to be about 350,000 words which is far more than the NaNoWriMo target of 50,000 in a month.

I think that's a little high. I've doing some math (sometimes I hate myself) and have counted words in 10 novels. That is, words in 10 lines, divide by 10 for average, multiply by number of lines - I'm not going to count the snowflakes. What I find is that there are on average 350 words per page in most novels. That puts you at a 1,000 page novel with your word count above.

20,000 works is about 57 pages. So, take it from there as to how big it should be. Clearly content is the issue. Trying to get a particular word count is using math to try and govern your creativity.

"The Death of Ivan Illiach". 40k words (135 pages)
"Fahrenheit 451". 50k words (161 pages)

Granted these are not large works. They fall into the novella category. Incredible works.


http://askville.amazon.com/Word-cou...short-story/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=6153729

The above link suggests the following and it seems right to me. There are some good comments in the article as well. It would be worth everyone's time to have a read of this.

Short Story

~ 1,000 - 7,500 words


Novellette

~ 7,500 - 20,000 words



Novella

~ 20,000 - 50,000 words



Novel

~ 50,000 -110,000



Epics and Sequels

~ Over 110,000 words --- Misquoting Paul Hogan "Now that's a novel."

 

[oggbashan]

Harry Potter book length

These are the word counts for J K Rowling's Harry Potter stories:

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone - 76,944 words
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets - 85,141 words
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban - 107,253 words
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire - 190,637 words
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix - 257,045 words
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - 168,923
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Approximately 198,227 words

Harry Potter was written for children.

 

[topace]

I'd say the number of words in a story doesn't matter, it ends when the story's over. Thus one idea can turn into a short story, and another can turn into an epic.

 

[mynameisben]

I think most of Shakespeare's plays can and should be pared down to about 200 words.

 

[RodenAddison]

These are the word counts for J K Rowling's Harry Potter stories:

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone - 76,944 words
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets - 85,141 words
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban - 107,253 words
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire - 190,637 words
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix - 257,045 words
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - 168,923
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Approximately 198,227 words

Harry Potter was written for children.

I'm not following. Are you saying long books are for adults? Shorter books are only worthy of children?

 

[mynameisben]

I'm not following. Are you saying long books are for adults? Shorter books are only worthy of children?

I took it to mean, even a childrens book can be lengthy. That is, there are no rules of length that cannot or should not be broken if the story demands it.

 

[Hubs_in_hose]

I have a problem with using an economy of words.

My "chapters" for my current work are short by some people's standards, they are around 3k words. However, my chapters are at what I feel are natural breaks in the story. Some chapters will be longer and I don't see any shorter than what I have already submitted.

I do wish that I had completed the entire work before I started submitting chapters. I feel that I have started some threads that will be difficult to bring back into the story and other items needing change that may have extended each chapter.

But we write here to learn and improve, no?

 

[topace]

Normally when I write, I end a chapter at the end of a day, or some other logical point, especially if I see a good (I have had a poor) cliffhanger.

Anyone got tips for what consists of a good cliffhanger?

 

[Hubs_in_hose]

Anyone got tips for what consists of a good cliffhanger?

Sending a main character off to do something that the results are in question or anything that leaves tension in the reader where they want to know what happens next.

In the Road Trip series by Romantic1, he had a couple simple cliffhangers that bound the entire series together. Each chapter could stand alone but reading it as one large story kept the reader wanting to know what happens next.

Just don't be trite or cliche' in your cliffhangers. Overuse of bad or unrealistic cliffhangers tend to make people not want to care.

 

[topace]

Sending a main character off to do something that the results are in question or anything that leaves tension in the reader where they want to know what happens next.

In the Road Trip series by Romantic1, he had a couple simple cliffhangers that bound the entire series together. Each chapter could stand alone but reading it as one large story kept the reader wanting to know what happens next.

Just don't be trite or cliche' in your cliffhangers. Overuse of bad or unrealistic cliffhangers tend to make people not want to care.

My last cliffie was called bad, because I had the main female character leave to get ready for her date. I wanted to leave the date for the next chapter, as I wanted to slow down the story (I was rushing the story by having a tournament battle for the main male character in almost every chapter.) and make it last longer. I guess I could of had her Pokegear ring (with the tone of an incoming text message) suddenly and leave the chapter then - leaving my readers to wonder what the message was.

 

[Anomandaris]

Indeed, anything goes.

But for a site like this, my concern is reader attention span. It seems to be getting shorter and shorter, like the specialist who knows more and more about less and less until s/he knows everything about nothing. The computer is the ultimate instant gratification machine, and if the reader hasn't gotten off, or hasn't had an Aristotelian purgation of pity and fear, by page 2, game over for the writer.

Now someone will quote my own exception to the foregoing, Grandmaster Sir_Nathan's 30-plus Lit page masterpiece, "Culture_Shock".

God, I love that story.