Story Length Opinions

[SamScribble]

I would happily give you my tuppence worth, but I’m not sure that, in the context of your question, it’s particularly relevant. My stories are written to elicit nods and smiles, not orgasms. Also, I spent my whole working life learning to ‘write it short’. Newspaper columns tended to have a limit of about 800 words; magazine columns a bit longer, 1,500 to 2,000 words. And, as Keith has already said, editors generally like short stories to be 3,500 words or fewer.

That said, I still post stories here at Lit, and most of them are pretty well received. I think it just depends on which bit of the audience you are happy to entertain.

 

[SamScribble]

When I see stories on Lit being pinged for being too short, I am sometimes reminded of an old Woody Allen joke.

Two elderly ladies are at a Catskills resort. 'The food at this place is terrible,' one of the ladies says.

'I know,' the other says. 'And the portions are so small.'

 

[KeithD]

What flips my wig are claims that you can't establish character or plot or anything else in a shorter story. You only can't do this if you have readers who have zero imagination or want to put zero effort into reading anything more than words strung together and pabulum spoon fed to them.

 

[NotWise]

What flips my wig are claims that you can't establish character or plot or anything else in a shorter story. You only can't do this if you have readers who have zero imagination or want to put zero effort into reading anything more than words strung together and pabulum spoon fed to them.

It can be the writer's fault. A lot of the shorter stories I've seen on Lit have been sex vignettes with no apparent attempt to build characters or a plot. Some readers like it that way, but probably not a majority of the voters.

Short-story writing is a specialty, and short erotica may be more demanding than a regular short story. It's hard to use sex to build plot and character. If you can't use sex to build characters and plot, then there's little room left to get it done.

I don't mean to say that it can't be done. I think I've written a story with plot, character development and sex in under 2,000 words, but the voters still don't much care for it. Maybe "short" isn't the only reason.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I don't mean to say that it can't be done. I think I've written a story with plot, character development and sex in under 2,000 words, but the voters still don't much care for it. Maybe "short" isn't the only reason.

I think arousal time is a bigger factor for Lit stories than it might be elsewhere. It ain't the New Yorker, but how often do you get off on that? I dunno, maybe most folk want it to be over in three minutes, but not me.

 

[KeithD]

A short story doesn't have to develop every element. It's not a novel. And erotica doesn't require well-developed characters or plot or that you like the characters. Erotica requires the construction of sensuality and arousal. That's what makes it erotica. Like much else of the advice given on this board, there's too much trying to limit fiction (and erotica) running around here--and to require it serve just you (the generic who--whoever is posting limiting advice) or some nonexistent universal Literotica reader.

Awarded writers have been turning out perfectly good 3,000-words and less stories for centuries.

 

[yukonnights]

Okay, I'm now convinced I need to get out more. I clearly don't think about word count enough.

When I write, I get sucked into the heads of every character — male or female, straight or otherwise. When I'm in their heads I write without any thought to word count. Probably too often, I write too many words.

But why do I write? I write so I can be in those other minds, those other lives. Minds and lives are messy and often the emotions are not neatly following a straight path. But it seems important to record those thoughts and emotions — at least at the time it does.

However, I'm not careless. I have a detailed map of where these characters are to walk. I know the end before the beginning. I even have some stop-overs mapped out for the trip. But too often these characters, my characters that I created and gave life to, they wander astray — and the word count builds and grows.

And yet, despite my disappointment in them, there is still some hope that all might turn out well in the end. But so often it is with regret that I read to the finished end. The unruly children have mussed it all up — they have spoiled my perfect Eden.

What to do? I've enjoyed their company, even learned a thing or two from them. But the word painting we made together just doesn't fit inside all the rules and all the expert advice on how to raise healthy characters. Much less having any hope our mess might inspire, or even just humor, those who hold the power on Judgment Day. That fateful day when the Great Power sets the words free into the world.

Oh, shame and misery awaits for each of my creations. Too many words...or a few too short. Or, so often one of my children breaks some vague social construct they were unaware of. What began as our own intimate relationship is turned into a display of judgement!

It's a curse. To have the desire to share our discovery — my creation, only to have it thrown back as unworthy. I could write in solitude and keep my children sheltered from the rage outside...but that seems wrong, cowardly and unfulfilling.

So here I am with my scraps of thoughts, my bits of words. Words from thoughts poured out like pain, shaped by something within my brain...all sent forth to the slaughter mill, so take or leave them as you will.

 

[NotWise]

So here I am with my scraps of thoughts, my bits of words. Words from thoughts poured out like pain, shaped by something within my brain...all sent forth to the slaughter mill, so take or leave them as you will.

Allow me to reformat:

So here I am with my scraps of thoughts, my bits of words.
Words from thoughts poured out like pain,
shaped by something within my brain...
all sent forth to the slaughter mill,
so take or leave them as you will.

 

[Blind_Justice]

I have been curious about that. Characters are probably a more accurate measure. I've used words because it's what I knew about. My stories computer data is in KB, I should work that one out, then wouldn't have to mess with word/character count so much.

One very important thing to remember when doing any kind of conversion from KB to characters - don't use MS Word files as your basis. They come with immense overhead. My current project at 21500 words is a 76kb .odt file... and 284kb as a .doc file. No funky formatting. Best bet is to do a plain text dump and go from there.

 

[Hypoxia]

A story should be just as long as it needs to be, plus or minus a little.

A short story is not a novel and a stroker is not advanced literature.

One LIT page is around 3750 words. Some readers like one-pagers; some go for 100 pages. Entries around 10 LIT pages gain the highest votes.

Believe NOTHING about 'average' or 'typical' LIT readers. Ain't none. Some will or will not like whatever you or I write. So write to your own taste and see who tags along.

Limited story arcs SHOULD be completed before submitting. Infinite stories can spin chapters forever, with no end in sight. You get to choose your path. Be kind.

 

[ElectricBlue]

One very important thing to remember when doing any kind of conversion from KB to characters - don't use MS Word files as your basis. They come with immense overhead. My current project at 21500 words is a 76kb .odt file... and 284kb as a .doc file. No funky formatting. Best bet is to do a plain text dump and go from there.

Most word processing software does a character count as well as a word count.

I'm with BJ - I'd never use file sizes as a guide to word counts, because a .doc is a different size to a .docx, and a .rtf is a different size again, for the same number of words.

 

[yukonnights]

One very important thing to remember when doing any kind of conversion from KB to characters - don't use MS Word files as your basis. They come with immense overhead. My current project at 21500 words is a 76kb .odt file... and 284kb as a .doc file. No funky formatting. Best bet is to do a plain text dump and go from there.

Yeh, I hear you. It's the same with Apple's Pages app — plain text turns into a huge file. I always write and submit in plain text. But I'm glad you mentioned it so others can take note.

 

[yukonnights]

Most word processing software does a character count as well as a word count.

I'm with BJ - I'd never use file sizes as a guide to word counts, because a .doc is a different size to a .docx, and a .rtf is a different size again, for the same number of words.

File size is useful to me. I never use Word — I write in a plain text app. I've been doing a copy/paste into an online word/character counting tool, generally at the end of a writing session so I can be aware of where I'm at in overall story length. But that is just one more step to mess with. The file size is clear and easy. But, I can see your point if you're using Word.

 

[ElectricBlue]

File size is useful to me. I never use Word — I write in a plain text app. I've been doing a copy/paste into an online word/character counting tool, generally at the end of a writing session so I can be aware of where I'm at in overall story length. But that is just one more step to mess with. The file size is clear and easy. But, I can see your point if you're using Word.

Fair enough - I've always used Word or Word clones - although I started with WordPerfect, back in the day.

 

[SimonDoom]

A few thoughts in response to your three questions:

1. Re story length: Literotica is its own world, different from the normal publishing world. In the world of short stories "out there", 3750 words (one Literotica page) is a common story length, and there are many famous short stories of that length. Shirley Jackson's story The Lottery was almost exactly one Literotica page in length. No one would say she gave it short shrift; it's a perfect length. Many O Henry stories are fewer than 3700 words, but he packed in a lot of story in a short space.

But Literotica readers seem to like stories longer than 4000 words, and I expect that has something to do with what they think is an ideal story in terms of being aroused or having a satisfactory erotic experience.

8Letters did some analysis of this issue a year ago, and found that stories tend to receive higher scores as they move up to 3 pages, or so, and that between 3 and 8 pages seems to be ideal in terms of reader response. If maximizing reader response is your goal (it doesn't have to be) this is something to keep in mind.

2. Chapter max: There really isn't one, but I'd say the ideal chapter is 3-5 pages. If it's shorter than that, then I think you should be publishing fewer, longer chapters. Longer, and it's probably better to divide them. In popular books, chapters typically are much shorter than 15,000 words.

3. The Novels category has relatively low readership, generally speaking, so it's not a good category to post in if you have a choice and want to maximize reader response. I think your goal should be to pick the category that best fits the overall them of your story, OR that fits the reader group that will be least squicked by other elements in the story.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

In the reviews of many stories, you may find complaints about how long a story is, or how it is "too wordy", and of course that is, for the most part, a matter of taste.

I just want to pull back a second to add some overarching perspective. There’s currently about 440,000 posts on Literotica, some chapter stories and some stand alone, and more than 2.4M registered users, which doesn’t include the unknown number of anonymous readers. With all due respect, until any of us have read a majority of the site’s stories and also identified the tastes of a sizable pool of both the site’s registered and anon readership, we do ourselves a disserve as writers to presume that we have a handle on the preferences of, as KeithD describes, the “nonexistent universal Literotica reader”.

I agree with KeithD and Hypoxia (below) that an author’s time and skill are better served by simply writing well to her own personal tastes than trying to fit “general” assumptions, if for no other reason than that generalization dampers creativity, and moving towards an average requires one to move away from both potential failure and excellence. The pool of available readership here is huge and diverse; no matter what you write, you will likely find a receptive audience. The one (still unfounded) opinion I’ve developed during a year on Lit is that an author’s likely chances to build a following with high reads/votes and positive comments increases not with category or chapter length or subject matter, but instead with consistent, high-quality, very frequent new postings.

Believe NOTHING about 'average' or 'typical' LIT readers. Ain't none. Some will or will not like whatever you or I write. So write to your own taste and see who tags along.

Limited story arcs SHOULD be completed before submitting. Infinite stories can spin chapters forever, with no end in sight. You get to choose your path. Be kind.

Ditto!!

I checked out the OP’s bio; you’re a writer and journalist, and have clear thematic ideas of what kind of tropes you want to explore in erotica. My two cents in addition to Hypoxia and KeithD’s advice is just personally tailored: that you let the story you write around the “love and heartbreak” theme develop however long or short it needs to be, and in whatever category. Hope this is helpful, and I look forward to reading your story!

 

[ElectricBlue]

The one (still unfounded) opinion I’ve developed during a year on Lit is that an author’s likely chances to build a following with high reads/votes and positive comments increases not with category or chapter length or subject matter, but instead with consistent, high-quality, very frequent new postings.

Yes, this. I took a year off to write my novel length thing and in that year (14 months, actually) only posted two pieces. My portfolio traffic dropped right off, which I expected it would. Once the novel went up, late in 2018, and subsequently as I've got more out, there's more activity.

My limitation, though, is my writing speed - what with life, work, other interests, my steady state is only 3k - 4k a week, if I'm lucky. I simply can't generate words at the rate Chloe does, for example, or KeithD. So I have to hope my quality counts, since my frequency doesn't.

 

[PennameWombat]

I'd like to echo the various comments that "3 to 8 Lit pages" seems a sweet spot.

What I think is technically one of my better efforts The Night Train is by far my shortest at about 1700 words. Yet, it has what character development it can have, something of a plot, etc. It has one of my higher Favorite-to-Views ratios and the few comments (I get few overall) are complimentary. But it languishes at 4.00 or so.

If I've actually had a word count aim it's usually 9,000-20,000 words. But I do have multi-chapter stories and longer ones. But I don't have much under 9,000 and what I do is lower-rated.

 

[Zodia195]

I could never do anything short due to how complex my mind can be. I am always asking myself this question, "Why" when coming up with the plot of a story. I can have a basic idea sure, but because of that single question, I end up expanding on that idea. One thing ALL of my stories have in common though, is how they're formatted. Like I always do chapters and each chapter will have a major plot point. Many times I'll come up with the conclusion of a story first and then build around it. How big a chapter is depends on how long it takes to get to that major plot point and then the effects of that plot point.

When it comes to what I use, I use the same Word as I have for over 20 years now since it's what I was taught in High School (and again college when I took computer literacy). I always use 1.5 to 2.0 spacing, size 12 or 14, mostly Courier or Times New Roman. Spacing is the most important to me since well, it's hard for me to see words close together (I am short sighted). So with all that, generally my chapters are a minimum 10 pages (not always for the first few chapters) and have gone over 20 pages at times. So yeah, pages wise I have gone over the 300 pages lol. No idea how many words that is.

 

[KeithD]

When it comes to what I use, I use the same Word as I have for over 20 years now since it's what I was taught in High School (and again college when I took computer literacy). I always use 1.5 to 2.0 spacing, size 12 or 14, mostly Courier or Times New Roman. Spacing is the most important to me since well, it's hard for me to see words close together (I am short sighted). So with all that, generally my chapters are a minimum 10 pages (not always for the first few chapters) and have gone over 20 pages at times. So yeah, pages wise I have gone over the 300 pages lol. No idea how many words that is.

But that's irrelevant at Literotica. The set formatting here is entirely different from any of that.

It doesn't really mean anything anywhere else outside your computer either. Publishers will tell you what formatting to use with anything you send them and they'll just toss it out if you don't follow their instructions. They want to consider everything through a standard look--their standard.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

A story should be just as long as it needs to be, plus or minus a little.

A short story is not a novel and a stroker is not advanced literature.

One LIT page is around 3750 words. Some readers like one-pagers; some go for 100 pages. Entries around 10 LIT pages gain the highest votes.

Believe NOTHING about 'average' or 'typical' LIT readers. Ain't none. Some will or will not like whatever you or I write. So write to your own taste and see who tags along.

Limited story arcs SHOULD be completed before submitting. Infinite stories can spin chapters forever, with no end in sight. You get to choose your path. Be kind.

Well said. Perfect summation.

 

[PennameWombat]

<snip>
When it comes to what I use, I use the same Word as I have for over 20 years now since it's what I was taught in High School (and again college when I took computer literacy). I always use 1.5 to 2.0 spacing, size 12 or 14, mostly Courier or Times New Roman. Spacing is the most important to me since well, it's hard for me to see words close together (I am short sighted). So with all that, generally my chapters are a minimum 10 pages (not always for the first few chapters) and have gone over 20 pages at times. So yeah, pages wise I have gone over the 300 pages lol. No idea how many words that is.

About what I do when I'm writing and editing (although I use Google Docs and Libre Office). But that's all just for my own convenience as it is for yours and I don't even pay attention to Word page counts. They only have meaning to me if I were to need to print a story. If it's for Literotica then I pay attention to word counts and how that translates to Lit pages. If it's going to be over 20 Lit pages I'm likely to split it to multiple chapter submissions but a chapter and a story are as long as they need to be.

But whatever helps you with your own organization and creation is fair. But it's only that.

But that's irrelevant at Literotica. The set formatting here is entirely different from any of that.

It doesn't really mean anything anywhere else outside your computer either. Publishers will tell you what formatting to use with anything you send them and they'll just toss it out if you don't follow their instructions. They want to consider everything through a standard look--their standard.

I was recently prepping a story for submission to an online journal's contest and their requirements are to put the story text directly into the body of the email, single space size 12 text, double space twixt paragraphs, no paragraph indent, from 3,500-5,000 words. Deviate on any of these and they state it'll just get deleted. That my format writing the story was as above was not of interest. Page counts of zero interest. Their journal, their rules.

I actually find Literotica's flexibility in what formats they accept and post unusual. Nice, because I don't need to do much work before posting, but unusual.