Story Feedback Request

[D A Stone]

We are requesting feedback on the content for the second chapter of the Maiden Voyage of the Amethyst Dream. We learned a lot from the first chapter. We also understand that some do not like the style we've chosen to write in.

Please also note, that the Man: and Woman: tags in the story represent a shift from the first person perspective of the two main characters from one to another. Here is a link to our story.

For those of you who are not aware D A Stone is a couple who enjoy writing and creating together.

This is the link to the first chapter
Maiden Voyage of the Amethyst Dream
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=104015

Here is the link to the Maiden Voyage: The Next Day

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=127810

 

[MaxSebastian]

Well, doesn't look like this thread has received much interest yet, and I think there's a reason for that. So you guys enjoy 'writing and creating' together, (writing and creating? They separate things? And all along, I thought...) but the 'man:' 'woman:' thing is just too irritating. Especially when it gets to be every alternate paragraph.

I know when you're writing a story with your partner, it's an easy way to do it. But it does not work.

A reader likes to read a story from a certain character's viewpoint - whether it is told in the third person, the first person or (shudders) the second person. A lot of writers, particularly when writing in the third person, do like to switch from one character's viewpoint to another's on occasion. And if you're clever, you can do this pretty subtly, even while still concentrating on your main character. Or, you can do it more overtly.

But if a writer does that, the writer has to establish each central character, and write for long enough between switching points of view so that they don't irritate the reader.

This story irritated me intensely as a reader, and that is the very worst thing you can do as a writer. When I'm reading, and the point of view changes, it disrupts the flow of my reading. I have to stop, readjust my thinking to focus on the point of view of someone else before continuing. Even if this readjustment happens in an instant, it is still there. It disrupts the flow. It breaks up the story.

It's like you're looking at one storyteller for the story, then another storyteller jumps in. And because you're doing it every other paragraph, you have to label those paragraphs 'Man' or 'woman', so that they make sense. This is both tacky and lazy. To me it wreaks of an amateur writer.

As well as laying it out to me before I've even started reading it that I'm not going to be able to just relax and go with the flow because of the disruptive POV changes, it tells me here is a writer (two writers - whatever) who can't be bothered to write a proper story with proper characters.

It spells it out to me in Technicolor that this is not really a story after all, it's just a fantasy put down on paper by a couple. So I don't want to read it. The characters are not there - they are, I'm assuming - fairly transparent representations of the two writers. The plot is fairly basic, but that's not necessarily a bad thing in an erotic story. Here it is, because you haven't hidden the lack of interesting plot in sizzling eroticism. The sizzle in your eroticism has been doused in cold water by the whole 'man'/'woman' approach.

And to top it all, it's written like a personal fantasy because it's in the present tense.

I think there should be a section in Literotica for 'personal fantasies', because in my opinion they sure as buttocks aren't stories. As a voluntary editor I shudder when I'm asked to look at one. I always thought Literotica was about stories.

Why don't I like them? Personal fantasies are too tailor made for the writer's interest or whoever it is aimed at. If you're writing a steamy little fantasy for your partner, about what you'd like to do to him/her when you get home from work, I've no doubt it will be pretty erotic for you - and one hopes, your partner.

It won't, on the whole, be all that erotic for anyone else. Because it's obviously written for you and your partner. The magic about stories is that they introduce characters, characters that the objective reader can sympathise with, empathise with, and after a little time the reader will care about that central character, wishing that character success. With a personal fantasy, invariably character is left by the wayside, since the person the fantasy is aimed at (the partner) is already familiar with the central character (the writer).

Having two writers and two POVs doesn't change this basic fact. It merely emphasises it, doubles the problem.

Having said all that, you guys can write. There's some good descriptions there, even some good dialogue here and there, although watch it doesn't turn corny. You just need to turn fantasies into stories. Add characters, plot, setting, stick with a single point of view.

You guys may enjoy creating together, but this whole approach needs a re-think in my opinion.

 

[CelticFrog]

I have to agree with Max here. Although he probably managed to muddle his way through this, I got too dizzy by the fourth paragraph that I had to close it.

I never managed to get to a point where I could applaud the descriptive talent, because I earned a headache just by opening it.

I'm sure there is a niche out there somewhere for this sort of writing, but I think most authors (and likely all editors) would agree that it's not something they'll go looking for anytime soon.

Ang

 

[dr_mabeuse]

This is no reflection on your story, but I always have trouble with wake-up blow-jobs. What about going to the bathroom? I know, that ruins the magic, but really, a guy wakes up in the morning…

I’m afraid Max has it right. I don’t agree that alternating man/woman versions of a story can’t ever work, but it will always be kind of ghimmicky, and it would have to be a compare/contrast two versions of the same event. Here it’s tag-team story-telling and it’s very disorienting. I even saw a place where the narrators changed in the same paragraph.

There’s a strong feeling here too of witnessing two people involved in deeply personal love games. That’s charming, and there might be a certain voyeuristic thrill, but for the most part it’s like watching two lovers spoon in a public place, which is arousing for them, but to no one else. You can really feel that the two narrators have eyes only for each other, which leaves us the readers very much on the outside, feeling a bit awkward.

---dr.M.

 

[D A Stone]

It's like you're looking at one storyteller for the story, then another storyteller jumps in. And because you're doing it every other paragraph, you have to label those paragraphs 'Man' or 'woman', so that they make sense. This is both tacky and lazy. To me it wreaks of an amateur writer.

I do appreciate the feedback and neither of us has ever said that we do this professionally. We are amateur writers, so the fact that our story wreaks of amateurism comes as no surprise to me. Neither of us has any plans on giving up our day jobs.

As for the comments of Max that we are just being lazy or that we can't be bothered to more fully develop the characters or plot, I have to say that I took offense at this. The fact that we are asking for feedback, knowing that we are likely to draw criticism, demonstrates that we do indeed care about the quality of our writing. If I were lazy or didn't care about these things, why would I set myself up for abuse. I would just post the story and be done with it.

I guess the time has come to just start over with this story and do it in third person. I had planned on doing this all along when we had finished all of it, but since all of the experienced writers and editors can't seem to get past the switching perspective I guess we should do it sooner rather than later. I'm not going to even try to defend the way these stories were written.

The comment on the descriptiveness and the dialogue gives me hope that with the rewrite, that this story could be much better, so I'm not going to throw in the towel just yet, but keep on trying. We will also try to make the first part of the story less formal (which was a comment of a few readers) and flesh out the characters and story line more (a complaint from the first part of the story was that there wasn't enough background on the relationship given to justify certain story elements, like naming the boat for her).

Again, I thank the three of you for your comments and when the third person rewrite of these two parts of the story are done, I hope that you will all give the story a glance again.

D A Stone (the male half)

 

[MaxSebastian]

No offense meant: what I should have said is that the story came across as tacky and lazy - that was my feeling as a reader. Not saying you are either of those as a writer. But, appearance is everything when you are in print. And when you ask for feedback here, don't expect to just get a whole lot of praise.

Glad to hear you're going for the third person - I'm sure you'll have a better response all round.

And as for my comment about being an amateur writer: I'm an amateur writer (and a professional one, too, in another area, but we're all technically amateur on Literotica). But though we're amateur, we shouldn't accept that label and feel comfortable writing amateurish stuff. There are plenty of amateur writers on this site that are good enough to be pro, and in my opinion everyone else should be aiming to improve towards such a standard (even if they never get there), otherwise there's no point.

Good luck in the re-write,

Max

 

[D A Stone]

No offense meant: what I should have said is that the story came across as tacky and lazy - that was my feeling as a reader. Not saying you are either of those as a writer. But, appearance is everything when you are in print. And when you ask for feedback here, don't expect to just get a whole lot of praise.

Max

Max,

Well, as I said before, I requested feedback knowing full well that we would draw criticism due to the unusual style. As for expecting praise, I was hoping that someone might comment on any improvement they saw between the first and second parts of the story. I don't expect a whole lot of praise, but recognition of improvement (if there is any) would be nice.

As for taking offense, I don't hold grudges and as I said, I do appreciate the feedback and hope that once we complete the rewrite of these two parts of the story, that you will give them another read.

As for accepting the label of amateur writer, I request feedback here so that I can improve. I have written professionally, but only technical stuff (I have three books published), so I am used to working to constantly working to improve my writing.

Besides if I only wanted praise, I would just share the story with my friends, who like the way I write and ignore the style issues.

D A Stone (the male half)

 

[ButterflyLane]

I guess the time has come to just start over with this story and do it in third person.

Well- while I'm a bit too lazy to muddle through the whole thing now- I did get enough of it that I'm looking forward to reading it when re-written in third person!

 

[MaxSebastian]

I was hoping that someone might comment on any improvement they saw between the first and second parts of the story. I don't expect a whole lot of praise, but recognition of improvement (if there is any) would be nice.

Fine. In which case, I would advise that you tell people what you did in order to improve from the first part to the second part. Then we can assess whether it was effective and whether we thought it made a difference.

When asking for feedback, you have to ask us these specific questions if you wat specific answers like this. Otherwise we will feel free to tell it how we see it in more broad terms.

I have to say I didn't see too much improvement between the two, couldn't see what you did. However, it's possible any improvement you made could have been overshadowed by the "unusual style" of yours that you stuck to in the second part.

I think without changing that "unusual style", which does seem to irritate others as much as me, any other improvements may be like re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

 

[D A Stone]

Fine. In which case, I would advise that you tell people what you did in order to improve from the first part to the second part. Then we can assess whether it was effective and whether we thought it made a difference.

One of the complaints about the first part was that there was a lot of repetition as Man and Woman described their perception of events. Not contrasting views of the same events, but just repetition. There was also some criticism for using the same basic sentence structure (subject, verb, predicate) too much, too much formality (one person actually said that this ole Texas boy sounded almost British). There was also a complaint about giving too much detail (like at the beginning of the story where it took a long time to just drive to the hotel bar, check appearance in the mirror, and walk inside). You might also notice that the use of contractions in the first chapter was much less than in the second, which tended to make the dialogue more formal and dry. We tried to loosen up a bit on the second part. I won't ask you to comment on any of this, but thanks for the suggestions on how to get the level of feedback I want.

Thanks,

D A Stone