Story Discussion: May 11, 2007. "Patteran, ch. 01" by fcdc

[fcdc]

Alright, gang. Fire away. Please note: I have experience writing, but pretty much zero experience writing erotica, so I was wondering whether I did a good job or a bad job. Also note the story isn't going to be to everyone's tastes, and probably should have gone in 'Horror' as much as SF/fantasy.

There are two other parts to the story, already plotted out, but this is the first part and the most important to set up the hero and the villain.

Link and specific questions will be forthcoming in future posts.

 

[fcdc]

Link to story

Here.

The story is also accessible through clicking the 'Stories' link in my signature.

 

[fcdc]

Questions/Concerns

Again, the story isn't to everyone's tastes. I wrote it due to the story idea (in the story ideas subsection) of a 'black vampire female seducing a white male,' but twisted that slightly, making Joe both non-white and not a local to backwoods Tennessee. Look up Sara-la-Kali/Black Sara on the series of tubes known as the internets, and you'll get a good idea of what I was going for, as well as studying the belief in Kali by itself.

Note I am using a lot of mythology specific to certain groups (specifically, Romani and Hindu). I hope it comes through as mythology, and not as something offensive, which was another vague concern I had.

Dealing with Sara as a villainness in the piece, I tried to make her thought process alien, but still comprehensible. While the reader obviously might not identify with her, she does have consistency in her desires, I hope. I would welcome any criticism there.

The verbiage in the piece is quite thick, so I apologize to anyone who has trouble getting through it. Like was said in a previous thread, I was going for Robert W. Chambers/Ramsey Campbell/etc. style of horror, which is pretty dense by itself. Hopefully the tone of voice is still fresh and interesting, though.

I welcome any comments on these issues or, in fact, any other issues, that people have with the piece. Hit me with your best shot. I was an English major, so I'm used to, and welcome, even the harshest of critiques, as long as it's got something useful to say!

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I apologize, I read very little horror, and so I'm unfamiliar with the authors you referenced. It's a category that I have little or no interest in. (And just not at Lit)

Personally, I found the tone of the story rather lackluster. Technically, it's very well written, but not very interesting. It did nothing to reach out and grab me. If I was just reading this peice for pleasure I would have stopped after the first few paragraphs.

I would have liked to have seen Sara tell more of her own story rather than the narrator. I don't have a feel for her at all. She is just words on the page at this point.

 

[fcdc]

I apologize, I very little horror, and so I'm unfamiliar with the authors you referenced.

Personally, I found the tone of the story rather lackluster. Technically, it's very well written, but not very interesting. It did nothing to reach out and grab me. If I was just reading this peice for pleasure I would have stopped after the first few paragraphs.

I would have liked to have seen Sara tell more of her own story rather than the narrator.

Hm. Was it the slow buildup, with the dialogue-free section first? I am curious if rearrangement of the sections might have given it a little more punch - ie, if hitting people with several paragraphs of just one character by herself was the wrong way to go.

The reason I didn't have Sara's tone of voice was because I was dealing with something that was supposed to be alien, and I wanted to keep her alien. I might have erred and made her too distant, though.

It was my first attempt at doing this sort of story, so I may have miscued a bit by including too much 'traditional' (for lack of a better word) fiction at the start, including a section of exposition, more or less. Was it only the tone itself, or the plot as well? Like I said, I know the tone is thick, so if that was just the problem, that's fine, but if it goes deeper into plot issues, I would like to know.

Thanks!

 

[Penelope Street]

Hi fcdc,

My reaction to this story was similar to the one I experienced while reading the snippet in the Story Feedback forum. Rather than pretty much repeat what I said there, I think it would be better if I first understood a little more about the style you are intending to use.

The verbiage in the piece is quite thick, so I apologize to anyone who has trouble getting through it. Like was said in a previous thread, I was going for Robert W. Chambers/Ramsey Campbell/etc. style of horror, which is pretty dense by itself. Hopefully the tone of voice is still fresh and interesting, though.

So what is distinctive about the Robert W. Chambers/Ramsey Campbell/etc. style of horror? What makes it thick and dense?

While I didn't care for the style of the narrative, I liked the substance. The plot and the characters both work for me and some of the details are clever too. I especially enjoyed the way Sara assembles her body from natural ingredients. I haven't seen a transformation like that before. Did you create that?

The three Marys had been dead for decades, and Sara was the only one left from that small group in the south of France

I'm still not any closer to figuring out this opening line than when I read it. This doesn't refer to the three Marys of the gospels, right? I mean, they've been dead a little longer than decades.

I'm sure I'll have plenty more to say after I learn more about the style you intended to use and also why you chose it.

This is an interesting piece!

Thank you for sharing it with us.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[jomar]

Hey fcdc...I was out of town for a soccer tournament. I'll reread it and see if I can think of something meaningful to say. Anything I come up with will be from a "man in the street" perspective because all I have is instinct, no training.

 

[fcdc]

Hi fcdc,

My reaction to this story was similar to the one I experienced while reading the snippet in the Story Feedback forum. Rather than pretty much repeat what I said there, I think it would be better if I first understood a little more about the style you are intending to use.

Hee. I can write looser stuff. The 1960s story, when it pops up, is a much less dense narrative. I was on a history/mythology kick for the last while, though.

So what is distinctive about the Robert W. Chambers/Ramsey Campbell/etc. style of horror? What makes it thick and dense?

Essentially, with both Chambers and Lovecraft (Campbell being a takeoff on Lovecraft), you have a lot of ideas of unseen horrors, of things only grasped at and not quite realized - it's much more horror of the imagination than it is 'Holy shit, zombies killed this guy in a really gory way!' or something like that. You have a sense of the author as being overwhelmed, I guess is the word, by the subject matter - a lot of Lovecraft's stories, and a lot of Chambers', are those of narrators who eventually narrate their way into situations they can't get out of. Take In the Rue de Dragon, Chambers, which starts:

To-day, however, from the first chord I had felt a change for the worse, a sinister change. During vespers it had been chiefly the chancel organ which supported the beautiful choir, but now and again, quite wantonly as it seemed, from the west gallery where the great organ stands, a heavy hand had struck across the church at the serene peace of those clear voices. It was something more than harsh and dissonant, and it betrayed no lack of skill. As it recurred again and again, it set me thinking of what my architect's books say about the custom in early times to consecrate the choir as soon as it was built, and that the nave, being finished sometimes half a century later, often did not get any blessing at all: I wondered idly if that had been the case at St. Barnabé, and whether something not usually supposed to be at home in a Christian church might have entered undetected and taken possession of the west gallery. I had read of such things happening, too, but not in works on
architecture.

And ends:

Death and the awful abode of lost souls, whither my weakness long ago had sent him, had changed him for every other eye but mine. And now I heard his voice, rising, swelling, thundering through the flaring light, and as I fell, the radiance increasing, increasing, poured over me in waves of flame. Then I sank into the depths, and I heard the King in Yellow whispering to my soul: "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God!"

... that was the same sort of style I was going for, the same dreamlike horror type of feeling. I may not have gotten there, and it hopefully wasn't quite as thick prose as that, obviously, but that was the similar sort of feeling I was going for.

While I didn't care for the style of the narrative, I liked the substance. The plot and the characters both work for me and some of the details are clever too. I especially enjoyed the way Sara assembles her body from natural ingredients. I haven't a transformation like that before. Did you create that?

Yeah, I figured with her being so tied to the land in the first part, when she runs into Joe, she should be part of it. I wanted her to be alien, but did not want her to be completely removed from her surroundings. Glad you liked that.

I'm still not any closer to figuring out this opening line than when I read it. This doesn't refer to the three Marys of the gospels, right? I mean, they've been dead a little longer than decades.

It does refer to the three Marys of the gospel - look up Sara-la-Kali in Wikipedia for what I was going off of, with a little syncretism. 'Decades' was an intentional choice, half for its alliteration with 'dead' - I wanted a strong opening line in terms of sound - and half for the idea that it would signal that Sara's concept of time isn't exactly everyone else's; we would obviously say millennia, but how can something that's been around for millennia before then see time the same as we do?

I'm sure I'll have plenty more to say after I learn more about the style you intended to use and also why you chose it.

Again, I hope I've illuminated some of the style. I chose it because I needed something mythological and vaguely disconcerting/dreamlike for the story. Something that started out with 'The vampire goddess sat there in the woods' would not have been interesting; it would have been stagnant, and the style - to me! - would have been far too static for the story.

This is an interesting piece!

Hee. Well, at least it didn't bore.

Thank you for sharing it with us.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Penelope Street]

Yikes. Chambers seems a bit esoteric for my tastes. I'm a very literal reader.

... you have a lot of ideas of unseen horrors, of things only grasped at and not quite realized - it's much more horror of the imagination...

I did not experience a horror of the imagination. A big part of this may be because Sara's hardly unseen. How much of her is left to the imagination? Not only do we see her- we're in her head and even know her plans for the future. We know she can take Joe anytime she wants. For me, Sara would have been a lot scarier if I had seen her only through Joe's eyes and had no clue what she wanted or what she could do.

Related side note- sometimes when I did want to see Sara, I didn't quite get to:

She was removed from the encounter, and although he had not expected a vampire godling to yell his name...

I was like, "Wait! She did what? Why didn't I get to see that?"


drkside's opinion seems to be near the opposite of mine here:

I would have liked to have seen Sara tell more of her own story rather than the narrator. I don't have a feel for her at all.

I'm not sure if this means drkside would have liked to see Sara narrate the story?

It does refer to the three Marys of the gospel - look up Sara-la-Kali in Wikipedia for what I was going off of, with a little syncretism. 'Decades' was an intentional choice, half for its alliteration with 'dead'

I will look up Sara-la-Kali, but it may be a day or three before I make the time. Would you consider adding a link to the above post for the lazy among us?

When a third-person narrator says it's been 'decades', I believe it. Did I mention being a literal reader? At least the usage makes sense now, but I'm still not sure Sara wouldn't have used 'millennia' or 'centuries' even if those periods of time do not seem so long to her as they do to humans.

Note I am using a lot of mythology specific to certain groups (specifically, Romani and Hindu). I hope it comes through as mythology, and not as something offensive, which was another vague concern I had.

I didn't notice anything offensive.

 

[fcdc]

Yikes. Chambers seems a bit esoteric for my tastes. I'm a very literal reader.

I did not experience a horror of the imagination. A big part of this may be because Sara's hardly unseen. How much of her is left to the imagination? Not only do we see her- we're in her head and even know her plans for the future. We know she can take Joe anytime she wants. For me, Sara would have been a lot scarier if I had seen her only through Joe's eyes and had no clue what she wanted or what she could do.

But to me, that would have not been the same story (though it very well may have been a better one). A lot of this is in the back-and-forth between the two of them, and while Sara isn't unseen (perhaps wrong choice of words for the explanation), she's still supposed to be something alien.

Let me take a day to think about how I can rephrase what I was trying to get at, as I'm not too sure I'm being clear?

Related side note- sometimes when I did want to see Sara, I didn't quite get to: I was like, "Wait! She did what? Why didn't I get to see that?"

Again, this is part of the tone - it's sort of sideways horror, I guess you could say, if that makes any sense (although I could only be further confusing you).

I will look up Sara-la-Kali, but it may be a day or three before I make the time. Would you consider adding a link to the above post for the lazy among us?

Linkage, although heavily bastardized for the sake of the story. Follow relevant links within that page, obviously.

When a third-person narrator says it's been 'decades', I believe it. Did I mention being a literal reader? At least the usage makes sense now, but I'm still not sure Sara wouldn't have used 'millennia' or 'centuries' even if those periods of time do not seem so long to her as they do to humans.

Again, maybe the meaning suffered a bit for the sake of alliteration. 'Dead for...?' - what else would work with a d here? I'm thinking and drawing a blank.

I didn't notice anything offensive.

Good. I wanted to keep it respectful, obviously, even if it was clear that it's divergent fantasy/SF and not gospel truth in any part of the belief.

 

[starrkers]

My reaction is similar to Drkside's, although I do read horror, probably too much of it (I'm actually halfway through a book of Ramsey Campbell shorts now).
I first read the story just after it went up. It did nothing for me, and left me wondering, not what comes next but what is the point?
Thinking I was, perhaps, just in the wrong frame of mind, I held off commenting and reread the piece today.

The writing is solid, with a couple of typos (scrapping for scraping) and one clumsy construction I tripped on

She dreamed of piercing his olive skin and drinking her fill of him, like she had drankdrunk of the demon Raktajiba, consuming him, his children, his grandchildren, and all the descendants of his blood.

But I felt no yearning for the rest of the story. I feel no emotional pull from either character. There is no sense of otherworldly horror. Several people have seen Sara and none have reacted to her in any way other than normal.

There is no dramatic tension: the two main characters accept each other for what they are, accept their place in the scenario without rancour and, presumably, will accept their fate in similar equanimity.

 

[fcdc]

But I felt no yearning for the rest of the story. I feel no emotional pull from either character. There is no sense of otherworldly horror. Several people have seen Sara and none have reacted to her in any way other than normal.

The trucker, you mean? I was intending a bit of shapeshifting there that didn't come through, it seems.

There is no dramatic tension: the two main characters accept each other for what they are, accept their place in the scenario without rancour and, presumably, will accept their fate in similar equanimity.

Not saying you're wrong on the lack of dramatic tension, but I'm curious why about half the readers seem to react this way and half seem to, for lack of a better term, 'get it' and see tension (I don't mean that disparagingly; it's late and I'm cooking and didn't get much sleep last night due to school foo, so please read it in the spirit it was intended). But it's funny that the reactions that I've heard are split between this thread and on other review threads - jomar and Marsh really liked the story, or at least they said so in another thread, as did danielle, and people who've posted here aren't as enamored. If anyone wants to shed some light on this, I'd be interested to find out why.

Like I said, it was my first stab at something along these lines, and I think the second story (the 1960s one), when it gets posted (not at all related to this, or the other snippet I posted elsewhere) is by far more successful. I may have been too overambitious, or assumed some things were clear that weren't in the story.

(I should have held off and submitted the '60s one for critique, but I was honestly curious and figured this piece would meet with a mixed audience at best - turns out I was right. )

 

[Verdad]

Hi, fcdc. It's always a pleasure to see competent writing, but I'll have to second everyone who said they weren't drawn in this story.

For me, the problems begun with the second section, when we met Joe. That's the place where I would have stopped reading if I didn't push through.

I'm a pretty regular reader of sci-fi (though not of horror), and I thought your opening great, grabbing and original. The three Marys reference piqued my interest, and the imagery was lovely—her floating down on her skirt, stringing bones into necklace, etc. You managed to create just that subdued sense of menace you were aiming for, sprinkled enough clues to make me curious, and the emotionally detached tone of the narration worked beautifully for a character who's both something more and something less than human.

Indeed, through most of the first section I had no problem imagining I was reading something from a professional publication.

With the switch to Joe, however, my interest vanished in the course of two sentences. One reason for that is voice, and the other is lack of action. What would have worked for me better would be a strong juxtaposition. I would have loved to meet Joe in the middle of a dynamic situation; I would have loved the new scene to make me blink with richness of sensory input, the sounds and colors and smells of the human world; I would have loved the things to speed up and the style of narration to change. Perhaps not all of that, but you get my meaning—a contrast of some sort.

The same voice that perfectly fitted Sarah, the primeval force, bored me to tears when used to relay Joe's history, and I'll also admit I could have used less history in any case, and from two reasons. One, as I already mentioned, is that I was ready and waiting for something to happen by the time we got to him, and two, I believe you'd have revealed his character more efficiently through action. It could have been in that same bar, but with him engaged in some sort of revealing situation.

You gave us some info about him, like the fact that he's a half-Roma, but apart from that I don't have a clue about who he really is. I don't know his motivation—his motivation in life, as it were (some sort of defining conflict or immediate goal), nor his motivation to go with Sarah.

This latter, in fact, came to bother me through the rest of the story and undermined what little interest I had left. I could think of no plausible explanation for why he went with her. Did he want it, and if so, why? Was he desperate enough from some other reason, at a point where if a ghoul materializes in your bedroom you shrug and say, what the hell? Did she have a way of compelling him, beyond just being who she is?

I couldn't decide whether it was any of these, and his defiance to her made me think that her flashing her godly credentials wouldn't have been enough.

Beyond that point, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to comment, as the story already lost its grip on me, and I kind of stuck around half-heartedly till the end. It's also difficult because it's not a finished piece, so I'm not sure where you're going with it. Thus far, I'm afraid the general impression is of some meandering and aimlessness, but it's a WIP, and the ideas may yet crystallize and then it will be time to go back and punch it in shape.

I wonder whether keeping a closer contact with Joe wouldn't inject more interest in both erotic and horror effects of the story, though. I'm kind of indecisive about that, as I liked the possibilities of the detachedness, but the way you chose to alternate between the POV's kind of seems to raise the need for more intimacy with the characters. What I can say for sure is that the delicious air of menace from the beginning pretty much disappeared later. At no time was I scared neither with Joe nor for him.

Speaking of the beginning, something came to bother me about it in the retrospect. The mention of the scientists. It seemed like a promising clue at the time, but later I wondered whether it has anything to do with anything. Therefore, you might want to reconsider whether there'll be pay off for the things the reader gets invested in in the opening, and change them if not.

Which brings me, for the end, to your question about erotic stories. I'm no authority, but in my opinion, an erotic story should possess some erotic tension right from the beginning. Nothing overt, mind you, and certainly no dripping cocks and throbbing pussies, but some kind of erotic promise, yes. (In that, I guess they don't differ that much from any other genre—if a story is sci-fi, horror, or murder mystery, they too will generally create the according atmosphere early on.) Your story didn't put me in that frame of mind, and I can't imagine reading it for erotic thrills, either the basest ones or a bit more intellectual.

That's more an answer to your question than a criticism, though. There's nothing wrong with a horror story with erotic elements instead of the other way round. Perhaps it'll help you put in focus what you want to achieve with it, though.

Compliments on the compelling imagery once again—that's the part I truly enjoyed.

Best of luck,

Verdad

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Not saying you're wrong on the lack of dramatic tension, but I'm curious why about half the readers seem to react this way and half seem to, for lack of a better term, 'get it' and see tension (I don't mean that disparagingly; it's late and I'm cooking and didn't get much sleep last night due to school foo, so please read it in the spirit it was intended). But it's funny that the reactions that I've heard are split between this thread and on other review threads - jomar and Marsh really liked the story, or at least they said so in another thread, as did danielle, and people who've posted here aren't as enamored. If anyone wants to shed some light on this, I'd be interested to find out why.

Like I said, it was my first stab at something along these lines, and I think the second story (the 1960s one), when it gets posted (not at all related to this, or the other snippet I posted elsewhere) is by far more successful. I may have been too overambitious, or assumed some things were clear that weren't in the story.

(I should have held off and submitted the '60s one for critique, but I was honestly curious and figured this piece would meet with a mixed audience at best - turns out I was right. )

I agree with Starrkers, I felt no tension at all in the story. I do have some experience on writing a successful series. The one thing I learned quite by accident is that writing a series is a bit like landing the big one while fishing. You have to set the hook immediately. If you don't, the fish will get away. The same with a series, if you don't grab the readers with the first chapter, they're not likely to read the ones that follow.

I think the idea of your story is good, and the writing is top-notch, but the execution is where you were lacking. There's nothing in the first chapter that makes me want to read the subsequent chapters.

 

[Varian P]

As a rule I don't read much sci-fi, fantasy or horror, and I deliberately avoid them when it come to erotica, but I quite enjoyed this piece.

The prose and imagery of the opening segment are lovely, and I'm enjoying the sense I'm getting of both characters; you're doing a nice job of feeding us little tidbits about a mythology and a culture I know nearly nothing about, keeping me interested.

It was fun, emerging from the woods with Sara to discover the gas stations and supermarkets—my first clue that we're roughly in the present. The image of the garlands of human skulls is an arresting and intriguing one; if she wears these garlands, as is indicated later in the piece, that's a fun clue to how different her “true” appearance is, given the size the garlands would be.

Literally, it's a very sensual piece; you draw on touch and smell and taste, in addition to sights and sounds, and it works well, building up atmosphere. I like the contrast in descriptions of Joe's and Sara's voices—hers earthy, his liquid—though you may have overdone a bit. After a few it felt somewhat self-conscious, and I was thinking about the writing, not the story.

My response to the sex is mixed; on the one hand, there's a realism to it (you know, vampire saints aside ), that I appreciate; Joe's mind is wandering while she's riding him for all she's worth, there's no over-the top ooh-ah intensity of physical or emotional response, etc. So, it feels like an honest portrayal of sex, but the price paid is that it's not terribly arousing (and perhaps it's not meant to be).

Looking over what others have said in their responses, I was more intrigued than troubled by the cryptic reference to the three Marys in your opening. What did hang me up a bit was the mention of the scientists taking animals—so many that Sara has to leave to forest in search of more prey. This may reference something particular to the story, but if it's meant as a reference to the decimation of wildlife populations in contemporary U.S., it struck me as odd, as scientists taking animals for study isn't high on the list of reasons that forests are disappearing.

The time perception issue tripped me up, as it did Penny. I too read the “decades” the other Marys had been dead literally. Even if you give me a clue that it's just Sara's perception, how am I to take the reference to her feet being more tender “thousands of years ago,” and the mention that Joe is only the fourth in a century? I'm sure there's a way you can play with time, and how Sara's perception is different from ours, but if you do, you'll have to carefully and consistently do so in a way that makes that play intelligible to the reader.

I somewhat agree with what others have said; my interest was strongest at the opening, and waned as the narrative went on. I was never bored, though. I don't feel an emotional connection to either character, or feel an investment in what happens to them yet, but so far the story has kept me engaged on an intellectual level. I enjoyed how the two opening scenes—Sara in the woods and Joe in the bar—each depict the characters as being out of place and somewhat pushed out of their respective worlds. A nice parallel.

And I like how you're handling the hinted connection between Sara and Joe—that he hears a woman laughing (Sara, I assume), when earlier it was stated that most people would hear the laughter, but think it was another kind of sound. To me, this is subtle and engaging.

But much of her mysteriousness and frightfulness dissipates from the time she and Joe encounter each other, and I'm inclined to agree with Penny that in part it's because I'm in her head for much of the piece, so I'm empathizing with her, which neutralizes the distance and strangeness of otherness. On the other hand, moments like this are fabulous:

She wanted a battleground, littered with corpses, where the sight of fucking would be as natural as death to anyone that stopped by.

There are other little things that might be contributing, as well. Repeatedly she “appreciates” things that happen, and that Joe does, and appreciativeness isn't a terribly powerful, threatening state of mind. “Approved” or some other word might lend itself better to her feeling of superiority and keep us a bit more in awe of her.

And I find myself wondering if it wouldn't work well, to have less of Joe's back story happen in his head, but rather have Sara reveal it, aloud to him. This would both shorten Joe's time in the bar, getting us to the action of his meeting with Sara more quickly, and also allow Sara to demonstrate an aspect of her power to both Joe and the reader.

Beyond that, I think what I need most, to feel more pulled in, is a sense of what these characters are yearning/striving for. I know Sara wants an acolyte, but it seems she can have one anytime, with little effort, the worst of her problems being she's let down by the lack of challenge. But mostly I feel as though both characters are sort of drifting with the flow. There's the explicit set-up that there's a contest of wills, but it doesn't feel like it. It feels like Sara knows just what Joe will do, and he doesn't actually have free will, so the tension is lost.

And now, on to the little things:

Thousands of years ago, she would have been aware of every particular pebble, especially the sharp ones that jabbed into her soles, making travel difficult.

The phrase "making travel difficult" seems superfluous, here.

...the natural weirdness of being in the middle of nowhere near the center of a busy country.

"the center of a busy country" struck me as odd.

He set the lousy beer down, letting the coldness jolt down from his shoulders, over his curve of his back

Maybe, "...over the curve of his back..."

This may be just me—I never drink beer—but does anyone order just “beer” without calling a brand? I know people do that with mixed drinks, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone order a beer, except by brand.

She longed to unleash her fangs to the man...

I'm not so sure the metaphor of unleahsing works so well with fangs.

Her tongue, as long as a gentleman's tie...

The metaphor seems out of character for Joe's POV; it sounds antiquated, more suited to her POV.

She knelt above him, her body contorted, her posture weird. She saw the change in his face as he realized the unnatural position she had taken.

I like this—it's one of the creepier images from this segment of the piece, but I'd love a more concrete suggestion or two of how her body is contorted—if she seems vulpine, or her body bends in drastic angles like tree branches, you give us a distinct image, and also tie her back to nature again.

His insides still churned with confusion and chaos, and he saw blood begin to glisten from its track down his neck and onto his collarbone.

How can he see this?

 

[Penelope Street]

...I'll also admit I could have used less history in any case...

The recurring historical snippets were a major issue for me. Everytime the tense shifted to past perfect I just wanted to scream.

But it's funny that the reactions that I've heard are split between this thread and on other review threads - jomar and Marsh really liked the story, or at least they said so in another thread, as did danielle, and people who've posted here aren't as enamored. If anyone wants to shed some light on this, I'd be interested to find out why.

Good question! I just wish I had a good answer. Can we have a link to the other comments? And does this mean Jomar won't be joining us? I hope he didn't imagine he needed training for his thoughts to be meaningful!

 

[fcdc]

Thanks for all other comments since I last posted, particularly Verdad and Varian with new reviews! I'm tired and feeling stupid at the moment or I'd answer questions now (the scientist bit is regarding animal conservatories on Bays Mountain, since I can answer that without thinking) but in lieu of that...

Good question! I just wish I had a good answer. Can we have a link to the other comments? And does this mean Jomar won't be joining us? I hope he didn't imagine he needed training for his thoughts to be meaningful!

Those reviews (Danielle's aside) are buried within the depths of *this* thread - I'm almost hesitant to link that, given the horror of the thread itself. Feel free to ask 'em to come over, though, in your modly capacity.

~ ~ ~
Moderator's Note:
I hope you'll forgive my use of modly capacity to remove a certain someone's name from the post and subsititute a link instead. If anyone's likely to search for his own name, he strikes me as the type and I really don't want him having any reason to come here.

Penny
~ ~ ~

 

[starrkers]

Thanks for all other comments since I last posted, particularly Verdad and Varian with new reviews! I'm tired and feeling stupid at the moment or I'd answer questions now (the scientist bit is regarding animal conservatories on Bays Mountain, since I can answer that without thinking) but in lieu of that...



Those reviews (Danielle's aside) are buried within the depths of *another* thread - I'm almost hesitant to link that, given the horror of the thread itself. Feel free to ask 'em to come over, though, in your modly capacity.

If you feel game enough to dive into that thread (it is amusing, in the same way that banging your head on a brick wall feels good), the comments on fcdc's story are on page 5. The thread itself is in the Feedback forum.

 

[Penelope Street]

Those reviews (Danielle's aside) are buried within the depths of ...

OMG Sorry I asked!

 

[fcdc]

OMG Sorry I asked!

Hahaha, and my apologies for answering (but thanks, starrkers, for further details!).

(I wish I could surf this website at work rather than when I get home from work - I waste all my substantive replies on political threads and wind up unable to comment on my own stories. Clearly I need to reorganize the game plan.)

 

[starrkers]

Totally understood, Penny.
And the only reason I knew where to find the stuff was I'd just come from reading through that thread (yeah, I know. I'm a masochist).

 

[jomar]

Good question! I just wish I had a good answer. Can we have a link to the other comments? And does this mean Jomar won't be joining us? I hope he didn't imagine he needed training for his thoughts to be meaningful!

I'm trying ...trying to find time to give it, but I'll get there. Lots of good comments so far. Here's the link to the other comments (a strangely fun thread ):

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=515029&page=5&pp=25

ETA: Didn't read down and see it had been linked.

 

[MarshAlien]

Thanks to Penelope for inviting me

I only wrote that to stave off the inevitable, "what the hell are you doing here?" after I introduce myself. First off, this is the first horror story, and the first Sci-Fi/Fantasy story, that I have ever read on this site. My stock in trade, to the extent I can be considered to have one, is romantic humor. I initially read this story because some other idiot, with whom I've been having a good deal of fun, started bad-mouthing it by way of attacking the author. So I decided to go read it, and posted a reply indicating my disagreement with his "critique." And then I got invited here. There's a lesson there, people.

Let me say first of all that all the historical allusions and mythology in this story are just way over my head. I seldom look things up while I'm reading stories, unless the story demonstrates that the other subject is interesting (to me) on its own terms. Here, it seems to be a part of the mystical background, and I find myself enjoying that background more if I simply accept it on the author's terms.

I found myself pulled into the story simply because of the author's wonderful ability to write sentences. Sentences like: "She lay in the earth, her bones turned to twigs, and her blood became fine dust." and "His voice rang with silver, like his rings." I will read a story for a long time if it has writing like that. The trouble is finding it, of course, and I never would have thought to look in horror. It is simply a work I picked up in defense of the author (who, in the interest of full disclosure, I should tell you that I now consider a friend).

I do agree that the character of Sara was far more compelling than the character of Joe. Of course, women who can shift shapes and read minds are always more interesting than guys who just left "the company" because they got bored. So I did look forward to Sara's reappearance, and to reading her, rather than Joe's, views on the unfolding events.

This is actually the main problem that I see with getting people to pick up Part 2 when it's posted; it looks as if the rest of the story will be told from Joe's point of view, and we really don't know enough about him, his personality and desires, to necessarily want to follow him. Sara we'd probably follow anywhere. Who's next? Whose necks? (sorry.) So while I was hooked from the start, I think it's more the lack of a hook at the end that might put off potential readers of the next part. I will pick it up simply to read fcdc's lovely prose, but I am probably a minority. (I really admire people who can create beautiful sentences and images. I have little trouble with the odd wacky plot, but writing like this is beyond me. Marilynne Robinson's Gilead put me off writing for six months. Sort of similar to what Beethoven did to Brahms, I guess, although I'm no Brahms either.)

I do think that she could use an editor, although it would take a very good one to work with a writer of her ability. For example, when I started the story, I thought we were in France (there was nothing about "Bays Mountain," for example, that screamed Tennessee to me). I tossed off the reference to Georgia as some historical event. So it would have helped me to have a sentence about floating across the water from Calais very early in the story. And some of the words are a little jarring in the context of the story. I thought that the sentence "She did not want to con him" would have been much more effective as "She did not want to deceive him" or "mislead him." I probably would have left off the last phrase of "She knelt above him, her body contorted, her posture weird" entirely. "Weird" in this story is just too weird.

But I tend to think of these as quibbles. As a whole, I thought the story well-conceived and beautifully realized. fcdc correctly identified it as a sensual rather than a sex story; even the descriptions of the sex scenes were far more evocative than they were arousing. I will happily read the next part when it is posted.

Again, thank you for inviting me. I'm going back to humor land now. I'm working on a fairy tale, "Who Snite and the Seven Whores." Probably sorry you asked now, huh, Penny?

 

[Varian P]

I just want to say thanks, jomar, starrkers, and MarshAlien for crossing over into the SDC, and thanks fcdc and Penny for luring them.

Having a few more voices join the chorus of usual suspects certainly makes for a more vibrant discussion.

 

[jomar]

My pleasure to be here Varian.

And Here's my two cents on fcdc's story. Overall I thought the story very well written. In the "one who shall not be named" thread I mentioned it made me think of HP Lovecraft, who I like, so I don't mind the dense prose. I also didn't mind the slow build, maybe because it was chapter 1 or because she had "1 of 3" up front . I do understand the idea of hooking readers with each chapter in a serial, but to me this chapter read as the beginning of a much longer piece, more novel like. And with this type of writing (at least that's how I recall Lovecraft), things start out unexplained and the reader slowly comprehends. For me, the time reference shifts didn't pull me out of the moment, but added layer and texture and the idea of a long history. This was Sara's story, so Joe was less interesting, but I would expect we would learn more about Joe's conflicts and complexities in future chapters. I like the mythology aspect, and in science fiction, I don't care if the author is making things up as they go along, as long as they're internally consistent.

Okay, for quibbles I noticed some of the same things that Varian did and stole some from her post.

The scientists: I'm not sure where they fit in and why she "had" to set fire to the forest. Social comment or maybe something sinister revealed in a later chapter.

...the natural weirdness of being in the middle of nowhere near the center of a busy country.

"the center of a busy country" struck me odd ad well. I though "industrialized nation" may have fit better. It was also a hitch for me later when Joe was in eastern TN. There was nothing to suggest the US had not expanded past the Mississippi so it didn't seem to fit.

He set the lousy beer down, letting the coldness jolt down from his shoulders, over his curve of his back

I thought this may have been and editing error that wasn't caught.


VARNAN: "This may be just me—I never drink beer—but does anyone order just “beer” without calling a brand? I know people do that with mixed drinks, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone order a beer, except by brand.
"

True, but I what I think fcdc meant here was that he was drinking cheap beer, not his brand, because he didn't have much money. By the way, I thought she did a good job of showing how he was an outsider, with no group to which he belonged.

Joe felt a chill run down his spine, like a finger running down it.

Down x 2 in one sentence, could easily be better.

She stripped of his clothes with the impossibly harp knife...

Why not use her fingernail, it would be creepier.

His insides still churned with confusion and chaos, and he saw blood begin to glisten from its track down his neck and onto his collarbone.

yeah, "felt" probably would have been better.

The last paragraph seemed more like a soft landing rather than a hook for the next chapter, though one could argue it left the next chapter to be Joe's.

Well written tale by a talented author and I look forward to seeing more of her writing.