Stigmata

[Patryn]

All of this talk of religion has got me to wondering something. What about stigmata? Now, I am quite the well documented "godless universe" advocate, but stigmata has been medically documented. I talked to my room mate, who's in the medical profession, if he knew anything about it. He said, basically, that it was mind over matter, similar to how the Fakirs can stick pins through their soft palettes, and how some people when hypnotized and pricked with a pin bleed out only one side of the wound and feel no pain. He also cited documented cases of false pregnancy, brought on by a woman's literally desperate wish to be pregnant or a belief that she was to the point where she had all the signs of a pregnancy minus the fetus.

But even if faith would drive someone to develop stigmata, I don't believe that the mind is capable of putting an actual hole through flesh, muscle, and bone. Stigmatics have been observed by dispassionate 3rd parties, and the wounds have been found not to be self-inflicted in any way.

Do any of you think it's possible that the mind can actually produce stigmata, or do you feel it's a hoax or is it really a gift from god?

 

[Sonora]

I'm pretty much an 'I'll believe it when I see it' person. I don't know if I'm just not smart enough to let my imagination go that far or if it's just a lack of trust (something that was mentioned in enjuedevi88's "Am I a Freak" thread.)

 

[Bobtoad777]

well going from the opposite of the "godless universe", now i have never seen any cases of stigmata in person so what i say is pure speculation.

stigmata are from what i understand, and maybe my understanding is wrong, are supposed to be modern day markings/wounds that resemble the wounds that jesus incurred upon himself in his last days namely the nail holes on the cross and the pierced side.

my self, agian i have only seen the 'documented' accounts on tlc and discovery, have always been suspicious of them myself on a couple of reasons.

one, if jesus was the son of god in carnate in the flesh and he was wounded for our transgressions and bruised for our inquities, which i believe, but agian that is irrelevant so i have been told by many on this board, it {stigmata} would be a mockery unto god, making it unnessary or a futile work that jesus did on the cross.

two, it seems to take place in south american and thrid world countries, i have nothing aginst these places. but these places before 'christian' religion was introduced was steeped in folk religions which most {not all} invovled some sort or self mutilation. some {not all} catholic churches and missionaires to these places adapted the 'church'/'relifgion' to make acceptaptence of these practices thus justifiing things such as stigmata and self inflicted wounds.

third, some of the catholic {not all} have always felt the need to have some visible sign of gods working, virgin mary images on the side of tim hortons, bleeding statures, cry jesus's, on ripleys tv men crucifing themselves with nails on crosses., so stigmata would fit into this system on visual signs from 'god'.

so with all that i believe that stigmata is a hoax, made for impressing man, by man. i dont believe from any where i have read in the bible, unless taken out of context, god requires us to harm or that harm has to come to us for him to be revealed

my two cents worth

PS - no offesne to any body of any religion mention herein this post, no offense to any body of non religion mentioned herein this post, and no offense to anybody of any country or decendancy mention herein this report. my apologies to anybody insults or offended herein with this report.

the thoughts reflected herein this post are solely personal reflection on the stigmata sindrome.

[Edited by bobtoad777 on 09-01-2000 at 08:32 PM]

 

[Endlessly]

Holy shit.. Don't take this the wrong way, Bob, but I'm really fucking amazed that the previous post came from you. Insightful and well-reasoned-- you go!

I'm a highly devout Christian (as if you people didn't already know that), but I'm not sure what to make of stigmata-- that, and faith healings, are the two things I've been most guiltily suspicious. As far as seeing is believing goes-- I've seen my best friend in the world healed from a serious disease\disorder literally immediately by prayer. It still freaks me out when I think about it, but now I know I can't dismiss all faith healings as bunk.

As far as stigmata goes, well.. I suppose I'll just have to wait until she gets that, too.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 05-17-2001 at 04:19 PM]

 

[Aranian]

*shrug*

There have been documented incidents of alien abductions too. Anyone who feverently believes in such a thing will ultimately find a situation which they can justify on the grounds of their beliefs.

 

[Bobtoad777]

endlessly

i am just full of suprises am i not?

can you email me sometime to discuss a few things aboiut our shared christian belief
same ddress as for everyone toddf@farts.com
its not just an email its what i do

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

You've heard of "The Finger of God"?

Bob wants you to pull the finger.

 

[Bobtoad777]

@ farts is better service than @ hotmail and it just sounds cooler too

 

[Endlessly]

I'd love to, Bob, I really would-- but I can't write an E-mail to that address. I'd just feel dirty.

If you want one that makes a statement, can't you be like me and get one from http://www.ihateclowns.com ?

 

[Bobtoad777]

could you mail me at either

tforgrave@hotmail.com or toddis@toddsmail.com although there are not near as reliable as farts mail

 

[Never]

Doesn't 'farts.com' sound like something a 16 year old boy would make up because it's so 'kewl'?
I mean, no one applying to be taken seriously would use that type of e-mail address. Besides, wouldn't you rather have a spiffy literotica.org address?
That way everyone you give your addy to would know you were a pervert.. hmmm, that doesn't sound that much better.

 

[Bobtoad777]

i have 97 email service i used now

i have my person that comes with my isp which i try not to give out

farts which is my public use
hotmail my back up and toddis and my second backup

 

[Earthgoddess]

Dixon I wanted to thank you again for your email regarding the museum-I emailed you a thank you during the great Lit Mail fiasco and I am still not sure what made it out.I have to agree with Dixon on this. Not because I am sucking up,because I have seen and dealt with numerous performers,mentalists and geeks. I've watched a man repeatedly pierce his skin and stop the bleeding.
The mind is astonishing and it stands to reason that a very devout believer could manifest the symbols of their faith.
I have been to festivals where Santerian priests and priestesses have been ridden by Oshun and Elegba. Seen it and felt the change in the electricity-amazing stuff.
I used to perform seances,I can tell you that the grieving person experiences any and all signs far more vibrantly. I channel and because of this I have experienced some unusual things. We only use 30% of our brains-what exactly does that other 70 do?
I am curious to know if any aetheists or devout non-christians have ever had an occurrence of the Stigmata?
Any good websites on this? Yes I know I could do a search but it's 7am here and I'm tired...

 

[sallygirl]

Hey Earthgoddess, there was a case of a non-religious person in the States experiencing stigmata a couple of years ago. It was really quite violent and shocking. I think she fell in love with the priest sent from Rome to investigate.

Oh wait. That was the movie. Hmmm...

I like how Aranian put it. If you really want to believe it, you will come up with some explanation to support it.

 

[Naked Hunny]

Ok that damn movie scared the daylights out of me of course i was 9 months pregnant everything either made me cry or scream so nevermind

 

[sallygirl]

Nah, it wasn't just hormones, hunny.
While it had a lot of holes plot-wise, I thought it was a decent thriller. You know, "Oh it's coming, I know it's coming, oh my God, oh my God, she's gonna get it... ahhhhh!" when something scary's gonna happen and you still jump out of your seat when it comes. Lots of plausible opportunities to cling to your sweetie.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Dixon I wanted to thank you again for your email regarding the museum-I emailed you a thank you during the great Lit Mail fiasco and I am still not sure what made it out.

It did! And, again, thank you!

 

[Gingersnap]

Gee Whiz DCL must be the Jesuits are a bunch of fibbers huh?
It would stand to reason as an atheist you would not believe in the existance of something so unabashedly Catholic. You know how dumb those guys are anyway.
Tell me Dixon can you explain in scientific terms the phenomena in Bosnia? Or perhaps the millions of pilgrims there are being incredibly naive and of course not one of them approaches a normal IQ. I really would be interested in your analysis of the events there.

 

[April]

You know, "Oh it's coming, I know it's coming, oh my God, oh my God, she's gonna get it... ahhhhh!" when something scary's gonna happen and you still jump out of your seat when it comes. Lots of plausible opportunities to cling to your sweetie.

You can't help but jump when the sound effects in the movie are suddenly bumped up so freakin' loud! There are many times that I wouldn't have jumped if it wasn't for the music or sound.

 

[sallygirl]

True 'nuff, April. I bet that was especially effective in the theatres, but I just rented it. I figured (correctly) it wouldn't be worth the outrageous full price of admission at a theatre.

 

[Earthgoddess]

My goodness that movie scared me too-I was really freaked out.
About the various sitings of the Virgin Mary-I am aware that non christians have apparently seen her also. Oddly enough many of us pagans work with her energy-myself included. I do a monthly devotion to her as Mother.
Just as there are reports in various South American Tribes of having seen a white male who fits the description of Jesus,at the time of his death.
The stigmata however does seem,as I have been researching this,to be an exclusively Christos manifestation...
Not to sound like I am double dog daring a deity but it would be impressive as all get out to many non-christians I know if someone notable not of the Christian Race were to manifest the stigmata. Not that I would want it-I was simply polling some pagan friends and we all agreed that would be a real test of faith for us-especially since many of us are recovering Catholics or Episcopals.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Gee Whiz DCL must be the Jesuits are a bunch of fibbers huh? It would stand to reason as an atheist you would not believe in the existance of something so unabashedly Catholic. You know how dumb those guys are anyway.
Tell me Dixon can you explain in scientific terms the phenomena in Bosnia? Or perhaps the millions of pilgrims there are being incredibly naive and of course not one of them approaches a normal IQ. I really would be interested in your analysis of the events there.

Warning - Another long winded ass post ahead.

Re: Intelligence of the faithful.

When Chistopher Columbus, the intelligent sailor and historian, sailed into the Gulf of Paria he noticed the Ocean waters were losing their salt, and deduced that a mighty river issuing forth from a great continent lay ahead (and he was right, it was the Orinoco River and the continent was South America). However, since he did not expect such a continent in the south (according the notes of Marco Polo and Ptolemy, there was none) and turning to his religious texts, his study of the world’s construction, his scientific knowledge of wind and water temperature, he divined that he was not in fact approaching a new continent, but the top of Earth’s pear shape from whence all waters and land flowed, the Terrestial Paradise. In other words: the Garden of Eden. Columbus was a religious man, and, knowing that no one could approach the Garden without God’s permission, he promptly sailed out of the Gulf without ever sighting South America.

Sir Isaac Newton, who changed science forever by inventing calculus to explain the motion of the planets and more or less invented modern physics, who is generally considered to be one of the most intelligent and influential people of the last 1000 years, dedicated the last years of his life to find ways to confirming Biblical history through Astronomy. Newton refused to believe that the earth was older than 4004 b.c. (the date divined by Archbishop Usher). The man who described gravity as a force believed in a whole host of things we’d find ridiculous, like his idea that Jason’s ship the Argo contained a beam but from the tree of Dodona which could tell the future.

Albert Einstein, who ranks just above Newton on the influence his brilliant thought has had on mankind’s knowledge, never gave up on the idea that the Universe contains an “aether”, or some sort of gaseous conduit in the vacuum of space upon which light traveled, despite numerous proofs of its non-existence.

For centuries the greatest minds in Europe thought that plants that resembled human organs could cure them, that flies and worms were created “spontaneously” from mud, that the philosophers egg, a mixture of cooked chemicals, could turn lead into gold, and that the planets and stars moved above us on sliding plates.

I would never call anyone who believes in something strange, mystical, supernatural or just plain odd “unintelligent”.

As for what’s happening in Bosnia -- I don’t know. What is happening in Bosnia?

 

[Scotty 2 Hotty]

Stigmata is..

...A very good movie!

-Scott

 

[Aranian]

I disagree. It was mediocre at best. I have it filed next to The 9th Gate in that genre.