Steubenville

[Loverskitten]

Need I say more?

I was going to post in the, what pissed me off thread, but I thought enough people would comment that I'd start a new one.

20/20 last night was all about it.
A mother of one of the rapists called him "a role model" ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE????!!!!!!!!!!

Then they offered this excuse, "maybe the boys didn't know what they were doing was rape" GOD I WISH THEY HAD CUT TO THE LEAKED VIDEO OF ALL THE BOYS JOKING ABOUT "the dead girl" what stunned me is that no one even asked "what if she was dead?"

I know we talk about rape fantasies and such but this whole case churns my stomach. I seriously want to beat the shit out of these boys. Wipe the fucking smiles off all their faces.
It sickens me that this was almost swept under the rug, it sickens me that they knew this girl was beyond wasted for hours and laughed at her in the street, pissed on her, raped her, took pictures, and not ONE person stepped up. Not one.
I have a, soon to be, 18 year old. And God I hope he'd do something, if ever put in a similar situation.

 

[Loverskitten]

I did have more to rant, but I'm gettin worked up... Time for a mimosa

 

[sheablue]

I'm with you. It's horrific and disgusting. Henry Rollins said it way better than I can:

http://www.underthegunreview.net/2013/03/18/henry-rollins-comments-on-steubenville-rape-verdict/

 

[sethp]

Agreed. Those two punks got, at least in part, what they deserved. I thought the sentence was too light. You do the crime, you do the time. What they did was obviously wrong. Obviously! That the media keeps talking about how those two boys lives are ruined and say nothing about the victim is pathetic. It's a case of football and sports being more important then standing up for victims and doing and saying what is right. Those two men were rapists and deserve to get punished. It's just like Penn State all over again. Makes me sick. When will we have more compassion for rape victims? Ever? When will people become more important than institutions?

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's not just them, though.

It was not only those two boys.

They were not the only ones.

There is an entire town that developed a culture that lead up to this.

There is a football coach that condoned it.

There is a school that wants football stars more than it wants compassion or justice or morals.

And it's not only Steubenville.

It's happening in other towns too.

It's happening in YOUR town.

Mine.

Our towns.

Our neighbors.

 

[Loverskitten]

Must add that what disturbed me too was, say, one guy stepped up, took the girl home while she was laying in the street, vomitting on herself, before the rapes, as boys were offering money to piss on her. He'd be labeled a wimp, or a joy-kill, or an asshole, or whatever kids are throwing around these days. It wouldn't make the news, he probably wouldn't have ever heard a "good job" so sad.
Yet, these rapists, are being given a pitty party. They aren't even sure if they'll be registered sex offenders since they were tried as minors. A huge mistake!


Also must say, I saw a video years and years ago, of the stoning of a teenage girl in the middle east. I donated to a cause and wish I had never seen this video. People were videotaping her death and cheering. It sickens me to no end. It sticks in my head and heart.
But this is America, things are supposed to be different.....right????
The video and pics of the girls are eerily similar.

 

[LadyVer]

The boys cried when hearing the verdict. All I could think of was boo fucking who you little bastards.

 

[LadyVer]

Must add that what disturbed me too was, say, one guy stepped up, took the girl home while she was laying in the street, vomitting on herself, before the rapes, as boys were offering money to piss on her. He'd be labeled a wimp, or a joy-kill, or an asshole, or whatever kids are throwing around these days.


Also must say, I saw a video years and years ago, of the stoning of a teenage girl in the middle east. I donated to a cause and wish I had never seen this video. People were videotaping her death and cheering. It sickens me to no end. It sticks in my head and heart.
But this is America, things are supposed to be different.....right????

Apparently for some people, a woman has to be stoned to death for their country to have a "real" war on women.

 

[Keroin]

I actually just came upon this story this morning. (Yeah, I don't watch TV and I've been busy with rewrites and out of touch with the world).

This is all horrible. Everything everyone has said here I agree with. But the WORST part of it for me is the reaction of women. I stumbled on a "public shaming" Tumblr website where a fellow is taking screen shots of Twitter comments and posting them so people can tell these terrible human beings what they think of them. What's crazy is the number of women who are calling the victim a whore, saying she was asking for it, expressing sympathy for the boys.

The link, if you can stomach it: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

What the fuck?

This makes me so sad. If we women can't stand together on the issue of rape and violence against women, what hope do we have of progress?

I taught women's self defense classes for years. I am very careful about my personal safety and I encourage all women to do the same. But I know that no woman "asks" for rape, I don't care how she's dressed or how drunk she is. And I'm tired of the onus being put on females where rape is concerned. Only after a woman has proved that she is not a slut, did not "ask for it", was not drunk or otherwise incapacitated by her own means, and is not crying rape out of vengeance or spite, ONLY then does the spotlight shine on the male rapist.

I feel like a tipping point is coming (or at least I did until I read those evil tweets). Seriously, how much longer are we women going to put up with this shit?

Damn, now I need a mimosa, too.

 

[BiBunny]

I sincerely doubt that what happened would've happened had the little fucks not really believed that no one would give a shit one way or the other. And the sad part about it is that they were right for the most part. Until it became public, there were very few voices shouting in the darkness.

The rapists are to blame for doing it, but everybody at that party is in some way responsible. There's no way you don't see men hauling a drunk girl around like a sack of potatoes and then think to yourself "Oh, they must be going out for a lovely stroll."

If you were there and you didn't do anything to stop it, you're as big a piece of shit as the people who did it. Period.

 

[intothewoods]

I actually just came upon this story this morning. (Yeah, I don't watch TV and I've been busy with rewrites and out of touch with the world).

This is all horrible. Everything everyone has said here I agree with. But the WORST part of it for me is the reaction of women. I stumbled on a "public shaming" Tumblr website where a fellow is taking screen shots of Twitter comments and posting them so people can tell these terrible human beings what they think of them. What's crazy is the number of women who are calling the victim a whore, saying she was asking for it, expressing sympathy for the boys.

The link, if you can stomach it: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

What the fuck?

This makes me so sad. If we women can't stand together on the issue of rape and violence against women, what hope do we have of progress?

I taught women's self defense classes for years. I am very careful about my personal safety and I encourage all women to do the same. But I know that no woman "asks" for rape, I don't care how she's dressed or how drunk she is. And I'm tired of the onus being put on females where rape is concerned. Only after a woman has proved that she is not a slut, did not "ask for it", was not drunk or otherwise incapacitated by her own means, and is not crying rape out of vengeance or spite, ONLY then does the spotlight shine on the male rapist.

I feel like a tipping point is coming (or at least I did until I read those evil tweets). Seriously, how much longer are we women going to put up with this shit?

Damn, now I need a mimosa, too.

Those people (on that tumblr) are insane!

I don't understand how her dress or what she drank enter in to it when she is passed out and being dragged around town to various parties. Not like I think that drunken date rape is not rape but I don't understand how it even comes up when the person is passed out. Who cares if she got herself that drunk -- obviously you can't consent when you are unconscious!

And I don't feel sorry for them at all. I can feel sorry for a lot of people. Seriously, I am the queen of finding sympathy for just about everyone, but by the time you've done this at more than one party, and you're video taping this shit and posting it on social media? That's pure evil.

And sorry, but while I'm ranting, why is everyone all excited about what Henry Rollins has to say? It starts off all right but in the end he's like, maybe more sex ed? Gee, I dunno? Who knows? Actually, probably people who study this shit have some ideas, so if you don't know, you could either ask someone who does have a clue or you could STFU.

 

[njlauren]

What is ironic is Steubenville is held up in some quarters as this heartland town, Sarah Palin's "Real Americans", that type of crap......no, it doesn't mean anywhere else is all that different, but here is a town that probably has more then its share of evangelical churches, probably think gays should be put to death, and so forth, yet that morality doesn't seem to have done much. I read the local papers, read the comments, and almost everyone is blaming the victim there....and in the articles, I didn't see a quote from one religious leader condemning this.

Part of the problem is a lot of these people are caught in the stone ages, they somehow thing because the boys didn't penetrate her with their dicks, that it isn't rape, because in their minds rape is about lust. What the boys did was not about sex, it was humiliating the girl, it showed their disrespect for her, it was what rape is, violation and power. Take two jocks, who are already on the top of the power hierarchy, and they wanted to show they were fucking gods, it is sick. This was no case of mistaken sex gone wrong, this was sexual assault, pure and simple.

What really makes me sick is if it hadn't been for a blogger bringing out the videos and reporting what happened, the good people of the town would have covered it up, the cops, the coaches, the parents, everyone,there were attempts to cover it up, and I wouldn't be surprised if cops visited the girl and told her to keep her mouth shut, the cops there probably would want to protect the jocks, too. Others are right, these same people would condemn the brutality of the middle east, and yet de facto do the same thing, blame the victim of a rape rather than the perps.

The people there should be ashamed. I made the point to one person I was heatedly debating the point about, who said the girl was to blame, she was drunk, went to the party, I made the point if a bunch of teenage boys from their town went to a city, went to a bad area in the inner city on a dare, got mugged, the people there would be calling for the heads of the 'animals' who did it, they would be cursing out the residents of that area, probably with a lot of racial epithetic, none of them would blame the kids for being stupid.......

I am sure there are people there who are sickened by this, who are as disgusted as I am, but it looks like the majority of the town are pieces of shit. I hear the AG is calling a grand jury, to look at those who stood bye and did nothing ,those who refused to talk, the two girls who said the girl wasn't drunk (they should be charged with perjury and covering up a crime), and they should go after anyone who was shown to have tried to cover this up, the football coaches should be suspended, and anyone one the cops who might have been involved should be suspended and if they were found to have aided in an attempt to cover this up, they and the chief of police should be fired, and charged where applicable. There are a lot of guilty parties here, I can only hope they all get what is coming to them. As for Steubenville, Ohio, I think it is going to be remembered not fondly for a long time.

 

[njlauren]

Those people (on that tumblr) are insane!

I don't understand how her dress or what she drank enter in to it when she is passed out and being dragged around town to various parties. Not like I think that drunken date rape is not rape but I don't understand how it even comes up when the person is passed out. Who cares if she got herself that drunk -- obviously you can't consent when you are unconscious!

And I don't feel sorry for them at all. I can feel sorry for a lot of people. Seriously, I am the queen of finding sympathy for just about everyone, but by the time you've done this at more than one party, and you're video taping this shit and posting it on social media? That's pure evil.

And sorry, but while I'm ranting, why is everyone all excited about what Henry Rollins has to say? It starts off all right but in the end he's like, maybe more sex ed? Gee, I dunno? Who knows? Actually, probably people who study this shit have some ideas, so if you don't know, you could either ask someone who does have a clue or you could STFU.

Blaming the victim in rape cases is old hat. Up until about 40 years ago, a lawyer could argue that if a woman was 'dressed provacatively', that she was 'asking for it', they would look at a woman's sexual history and if she was active, on birth control, they would bring that up, proving she was sexually loose and asking for it..fortunately, we have rape shield laws, though the scumbag lawyers who defended the two convicted losers tried that, they tried to bring up the girls past, innuendo that she was troubled, partied, whatever. Part of the reason for this is a lot of people on Juries and in large swaths of the population think rape is about lust,that men rape because they are turned on, so if you argue that a woman 'seduced' him by looking sexy, or had a history of sex, that therefore she 'tempted' the man to rape her......in this case, a lot of people in the town are saying she went to that party to get drunk and have sex, so if she got raped, well, she deserved it, since she went there looking for it.....reminds me of the mutant congressmen saying that if a woman gets raped and gets pregnant ,it wasn't rape because you can't get pregnant from rape (implying therefore the victim enjoyed it).

 

[intothewoods]

Blaming the victim in rape cases is old hat. Up until about 40 years ago, a lawyer could argue that if a woman was 'dressed provacatively', that she was 'asking for it', they would look at a woman's sexual history and if she was active, on birth control, they would bring that up, proving she was sexually loose and asking for it..fortunately, we have rape shield laws, though the scumbag lawyers who defended the two convicted losers tried that, they tried to bring up the girls past, innuendo that she was troubled, partied, whatever. Part of the reason for this is a lot of people on Juries and in large swaths of the population think rape is about lust,that men rape because they are turned on, so if you argue that a woman 'seduced' him by looking sexy, or had a history of sex, that therefore she 'tempted' the man to rape her......in this case, a lot of people in the town are saying she went to that party to get drunk and have sex, so if she got raped, well, she deserved it, since she went there looking for it.....reminds me of the mutant congressmen saying that if a woman gets raped and gets pregnant ,it wasn't rape because you can't get pregnant from rape (implying therefore the victim enjoyed it).

I know it's old hat but this is different -- she was unconscious! Though I don't agree with blaming the victim based on provocative dress or perceived "slutty" or drunk behavior, I can at least follow the argument. I do not understand how you get there when a person is passed out. So she went there to get drunk and have sex. Once she passed out, that motivation has left the building. And I find their behavior at that point even more disturbing. That's some serious detachment.

 

[njlauren]

I am not disagreeing with you, obviously, but what the idiots are arguing is if her intent was to go there and get drunk and have sex, well, then anything that happened to her, including getting raped, is her fault because in effect, they are arguing she brought it on herself....if she was unconscious, it was because she drank too much, she put herself in that place....

it is vile, it is disgusting, but what they are basically arguing is she was a slut who went there to drink and have sex, and therefore she has nothing to complain about *gag*. One guy on another BD/SM board put it exactly like that, she went to that party to drink, she knew the boys there were from the football team and knew what to expect, she was no innocent, and therefore, they shouldn't charge those boys with rape because she knew what she was getting into..in effect, he was saying she consented to being sexually molested simply by being there, since according to this troglodyte, she knew what the boys were like and shouldn't have expected differently. I makes me violently ill to think there are people like that out there, but there are, they use the argument that she 'didn't use her head', 'put herself in that position', so whether she was drunk, drugged, or whatever in effect she got what she deserved, and I am sure a lot of those good, wholesome, bible fearing folks in Steubenville are thinking much the same thing.

 

[sereneone4u]

What I say to men that think it is okay to rape a woman passed out drunk is that I guess it is okay to cut your dick off since you asked for it when you get passed out drunk.

Usually shuts them up.

 

[Ellafun]

This entire situation sickens me. The investigation was not even being pursued until the end of the football season. The fact that they received a "minimum one year" and "minimum two year" sentence is revolting. I hope, at least, that Ohio retains their names on the "Known Sex Offenders" list for the rest of their lives.

As for the victim, I know she will be dealing with this the rest of her life. I only hope that she heals, somewhat, with time.

 

[intothewoods]

I am not disagreeing with you, obviously, but what the idiots are arguing is if her intent was to go there and get drunk and have sex, well, then anything that happened to her, including getting raped, is her fault because in effect, they are arguing she brought it on herself....if she was unconscious, it was because she drank too much, she put herself in that place....

it is vile, it is disgusting, but what they are basically arguing is she was a slut who went there to drink and have sex, and therefore she has nothing to complain about *gag*. One guy on another BD/SM board put it exactly like that, she went to that party to drink, she knew the boys there were from the football team and knew what to expect, she was no innocent, and therefore, they shouldn't charge those boys with rape because she knew what she was getting into..in effect, he was saying she consented to being sexually molested simply by being there, since according to this troglodyte, she knew what the boys were like and shouldn't have expected differently. I makes me violently ill to think there are people like that out there, but there are, they use the argument that she 'didn't use her head', 'put herself in that position', so whether she was drunk, drugged, or whatever in effect she got what she deserved, and I am sure a lot of those good, wholesome, bible fearing folks in Steubenville are thinking much the same thing.

I've no idea why it irks me because I don't believe a woman gives up her right to say no just because she's drunk or dressed like a hooker but to me there's just another level of inhumanity involved when you're violating an unconscious person. I think it's psychopathic. Or sociopathic. I always confuse those two.

To me, proponents of the position that "she asked for it" might liken it to this - you play in a football game and you consent to getting knocked around. Ok. But once a player is knocked out unconscious, the action stops. No one would argue that the unconscious player has also consented to subsequently getting the shit kicked out of him.

 

[Keroin]

I've no idea why it irks me because I don't believe a woman gives up her right to say no just because she's drunk or dressed like a hooker but to me there's just another level of inhumanity involved when you're violating an unconscious person. I think it's psychopathic. Or sociopathic. I always confuse those two.

To me, proponents of the position that "she asked for it" might liken it to this - you play in a football game and you consent to getting knocked around. Ok. But once a player is knocked out unconscious, the action stops. No one would argue that the unconscious player has also consented to subsequently getting the shit kicked out of him.

Well put.

The other inherent flaw with the "she was asking for it" argument is that it assumes when a girl/woman behaves in a certain manner what she wants is sex. I'm not suggesting young girls can't or don't want sex as much as their male counterparts -- heck, I sure did! But when you look at young girls who dress very provocatively, who drink or do drugs to excess, who put themselves in situations like this young victim did, what are they really asking for?

Attention, affection, acceptance -- I'd say those are just some of the things that victim may have been seeking that evening. We all want to be part of a "tribe", especially when we're young. So you put on a short skirt and a tight top and, voila, you get noticed! It's probably not 'good' attention, but it's attention. At 16, it's better than no attention at all.

Does that make sense?

The "she was asking for it" argument it ridiculous (and disgusting) on a number of levels. That's just one.

 

[Shankara20]

It's not just them, though.

It was not only those two boys.

They were not the only ones.

There is an entire town that developed a culture that lead up to this.

There is a football coach that condoned it.

There is a school that wants football stars more than it wants compassion or justice or morals.

And it's not only Steubenville.

It's happening in other towns too.

It's happening in YOUR town.

Mine.

Our towns.

Our neighbors.

Indeed.

Those males are products. Products of their communities.

Our community has this same story year after year but it does not make news. I witnessed 2 coaches, a social worker, and 40 team mates in a courtroom testifying to show support at the sentencing of a 17 year old basketball star who plead guilty to 9 felony sex crimes of 6 girls including rape.

All of them said "he would not have those things had he know how much trouble he was going to encounter" - not one stated that what he did was wrong and that he was sorry.

A 16 year old is now tending to her 2 year old child while trying to finish high school. She was 13 when she was raped.

.

 

[Loverskitten]

Well I asked my 17 year old about it. He hadn't heard anything about it.
He said "I don't watch the news" but I feel like this would be the perfect opportunity for schools to talk about this issue.
So when I gave him a synopsis, I asked him if he'd intervene. He said "no, cause I'd get my ass kicked, but I'd sneak off and call the cops"

I took this opportunity to talk to him. He knows I can be a messed up drunk. Yes, he has seen it. Especially when I lost weight, man was I a cheap drunk. At a 4th of July party we attended with friends, I disappeard to be found later, curled up on the floor next to my friend's bed.

Women process alcohol differently than men. It's a fact.
It can hit us like a bus. I've been a pretty professional drinker for some 20 years and still haven't gotten the hang of it. It does not mean rape me.

Anyway, this should be taught in school. Budget cuts cut out ALL Sex Ed in my son's district. And I live in a heavily populated area.
I hope parents talk to their kids about sex and rape (mine never did)
I hope boys will be a hero once in a while, and that THAT MAKES THE NEWS!
I hope the parents, coaches, and people who were there get charged.
I hope the victim never remembers what happened to her.

Also if you haven't seen the video. Watch as much as you can stomach. If I was that boys mom....

 

[Loverskitten]

Also if you can watch that 20/20 on line, remember the leaked YouTube video, you'll be stunned at what good liars these boys are.

 

[Shankara20]

So when I gave him a synopsis, I asked him if he'd intervene. He said "no, cause I'd get my ass kicked, but I'd sneak off and call the cops"

Your son got it correct. This is exactly the bystander intervention we try to teach our youth here. It is starting to be called being an "Up-stander"


Good job Mom.

 

[Loverskitten]

Your son got it correct. This is exactly the bystander intervention we try to teach our youth here. It is starting to be called being an "Up-stander"


Good job Mom.

Thanks, it helps that he's kind of a nerd. I love it.

So he wouldn't even be at that kind of party, but if anyone tries to rape a girl at a Magic the Gathering competition, he'll do the right thing