Stereotyping

[AG31]

It seems clear that we don't want to engage in stereotyping in real life. We want to avoid judging another human by superficial characteristics.

But stereotypes are fun in fiction, especially for peripheral characters. I got to thinking about how we make an effort to avoid racial stereotyping. But is that, perhaps, evidence of underlying stereotyping on our parts? A case in point is Roddy Ho on Slow Horses, a stereotypical Asian socially oblivious geek. I thought about the risk they were taking casting an Asian. Then I thought that if they'd cast a dumpy, stringy haired young white guy, we'd think nothing of it. Because whites are immune from stereotyping. Maybe casting Roddy that way is to take a stand that says Asians can be immune to stereotyping too.

I hope this makes sense, even if you disagree. Not sure where this might go as a thread.

 

[ChuckWolf]

Some of my stories and future stories, have African-American women who have a certain dialect, that has been in media, but also one that I'm familiar with anecdotally, as some of those characters are based on women I knew/know IRL.

Some people might be offended with how those characters are portrayed.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

It seems clear that we don't want to engage in stereotyping in real life. We want to avoid judging another human by superficial characteristics.

But stereotypes are fun in fiction, especially for peripheral characters. I got to thinking about how we make an effort to avoid racial stereotyping. But is that, perhaps, evidence of underlying stereotyping on our parts? A case in point is Roddy Ho on Slow Horses, a stereotypical Asian socially oblivious geek. I thought about the risk they were taking casting an Asian. Then I thought that if they'd cast a dumpy, stringy haired young white guy, we'd think nothing of it. Because whites are immune from stereotyping. Maybe casting Roddy that way is to take a stand that says Asians can be immune to stereotyping too.

I hope this makes sense, even if you disagree. Not sure where this might go as a thread.

Roddy's not the stereotypical geek though - he is totally in love with himself, thinks he's God's gift to both tech (maybe) and women (definitely not!), and is a selfish bastard. Nice for a geek to not just be the quiet expert, perhaps with hidden depths or a heart of gold.

I think when writing, you either need to show a character is more than just a stereotype, or lean in and play with it.

Unless they're really a minor character, in which case using shorthand may simply be more efficient.

 

[Bazzle]

It seems clear that we don't want to engage in stereotyping in real life. We want to avoid judging another human by superficial characteristics.

But stereotypes are fun in fiction, especially for peripheral characters. I got to thinking about how we make an effort to avoid racial stereotyping. But is that, perhaps, evidence of underlying stereotyping on our parts? A case in point is Roddy Ho on Slow Horses, a stereotypical Asian socially oblivious geek. I thought about the risk they were taking casting an Asian. Then I thought that if they'd cast a dumpy, stringy haired young white guy, we'd think nothing of it. Because whites are immune from stereotyping. Maybe casting Roddy that way is to take a stand that says Asians can be immune to stereotyping too.

I hope this makes sense, even if you disagree. Not sure where this might go as a thread.

I thought this thread was going to be about typing in stereo - as in having two keyboards on the go!

 

[BeechLeaf]

one for each breast

 

[THBGato]

Because whites are immune from stereotyping.

You've clearly never watched any British comedy ever.

 

[AG31]

You've clearly never watched any British comedy ever.

I don't think their whiteness is the point.

 

[AG31]

Roddy's not the stereotypical geek though - he is totally in love with himself, thinks he's God's gift to both tech (maybe) and women (definitely not!), and is a selfish bastard. Nice for a geek to not just be the quiet expert, perhaps with hidden depths or a heart of gold.

I think when writing, you either need to show a character is more than just a stereotype, or lean in and play with it.

Unless they're really a minor character, in which case using shorthand may simply be more efficient.

They're doing a bit of a reset with Roddy, starting in season 5. After the first minute or so we were convinced they'd gotten a different actor. Kudos to the actor, because all he had to work with was dancing on the sidewalk.

 

[OddLove]

There are a million small details that could push the Chinese martial artist character beyond representation and into offensive stereotyping.

It's some kind of balancing act I don't tend to dance around with.

I do know this. It would suck to live in a world where everyone avoids pairing a characters ethnicity or gender into roles out of fear of stereotyping.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I don't think their whiteness is the point.

How about going out for an English? English

 

[Kumquatqueen]

They're doing a bit of a reset with Roddy, starting in season 5. After the first minute or so we were convinced they'd gotten a different actor. Kudos to the actor, because all he had to work with was dancing on the sidewalk.

Reset? He's the same gloriously offensive deluded tosser in s5 as before!

But he's definitely an individual human, not a stereotype (beyond being a male IT worker into gaming).

 

[SimonDoom]

It's tricky, and fraught with possible missteps, but stereotyping, even racial stereotyping, has always been common in comedy.

For instance, this Saturday Night Live skit with Eddie Murphy, White Like Me. I think it's hilarious. It's full of stereotyping of white people.

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Or SNL's more recent series of sketches, Black Jeopardy, which plays on stereotypes of both black and white people. Here's a link to a good one starring Tom Hanks as the weekly host:

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I don't recommend everyone trying this. I wouldn't. But it can be very funny, and sometimes insightful, if done right.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Because whites are immune from stereotyping.

White people exhibit many stereotypical behaviors. For example, they say things like "white people are immune from stereotyping."

 

[Qky75]

White people exhibit many stereotypical behaviors. For example, they say things like "white people are immune from stereotyping."

They all have a "black friend" and think collard greens are kinky vegetables

 

[PennyThompson]

The "I demand to speak to the manager," Karen figure is very much a specifically white stereotype, I think. So is the redneck stereotype. Arguably the Dumb Blonde, too!

I included a Karen in my Put on Some Sunscreen, Penny story, originally she was actually named Karen until one of my beta readers convinced me it was a little too on the nose

Personally, being white, white stereotypes are the only ones I'm likely to play with. And even then, try to include some nuance and subversion to the tropes... Though I admit that I didn't give Karen Alice too much nuance

 

[SimonDoom]

Because whites are immune from stereotyping. Maybe casting Roddy that way is to take a stand that says Asians can be immune to stereotyping too.

Maybe you should explain this, because it might sidetrack the conversation. I don't know what you mean.

Every group can be stereotyped, so nobody is "immune" in that sense.

It's fair to say that tolerance for stereotyping may vary quite a lot depending on the race. Is that what you mean? It think it's fair to say that a black comedian can get away with stereotyping white people better than a white comedian can get away with stereotyping black people. But even that's a generalization that's not always true, and, of course, it may depend on the audience. SNL has a long history of doing comedy sketches that play on stereotypes.

 

[SimonDoom]

Personally, being white, white stereotypes are the only ones I'm likely to play with.

This is an interesting, tricky issue. In principle, I think everybody should be held to the same standard. If it's OK for group A to stereotype group B, then it's OK for group B to stereotype group A. But in practice, it doesn't work like that. I think it's often funny when black comedians make fun of white people. I almost never get offended at that. The Eddie Murphy sketch I linked to above is an example. But a white comedian must have a deft touch to stereotype a black person and make it work. It can happen, and I've seen it work, but it's more fraught.

 

[PennyThompson]

This is an interesting, tricky issue. In principle, I think everybody should be held to the same standard. If it's OK for group A to stereotype group B, then it's OK for group B to stereotype group A. But in practice, it doesn't work like that. I think it's often funny when black comedians make fun of white people. I almost never get offended at that. The Eddie Murphy sketch I linked to above is an example. But a white comedian must have a deft touch to stereotype a black person and make it work. It can happen, and I've seen it work, but it's more fraught.

I guess so... It's a Punching Up/Punching Down thing, and it's also a question of historical context, at least to me.

When I write black characters I try to be careful about not writing lazy stereotypes, because white americans stereotyping black people has a long, ugly, violent, oppressive history that I don't want to be part of

 

[Comshaw]

They all have a "black friend" and think collard greens are kinky vegetables

And have never eaten chicken feet.


Comshaw

 

[THBGato]

Or put raisins in potato salad

 

[millamomud]

stereotyping

puts the second keyboard quietly away

 

[ElectricBlue]

puts the second keyboard quietly away

I chuckled at that.

 

[TheLobster]

It seems clear that we don't want to engage in stereotyping in real life. We want to avoid judging another human by superficial characteristics.

I completely disagree. Stereotyping is both beneficial and perfectly reasonable. It's really just a different name for applying known heuristics to novel situations, and it is quite unwise indeed to reject previous experiences whenever you approach something or someone new.

Problems with stereotyping only arise when we fail to update those priors in a timely enough manner, as that's when real unfairness and biases creep in.

 

[AG31]

Maybe you should explain this, because it might sidetrack the conversation. I don't know what you mean.

Every group can be stereotyped, so nobody is "immune" in that sense.

It's fair to say that tolerance for stereotyping may vary quite a lot depending on the race. Is that what you mean? It think it's fair to say that a black comedian can get away with stereotyping white people better than a white comedian can get away with stereotyping black people. But even that's a generalization that's not always true, and, of course, it may depend on the audience. SNL has a long history of doing comedy sketches that play on stereotypes.

I think the previous responders pointed out the flaw in my statement. But what you say here is true.

 

[Writer61]

And have never eaten chicken feet.

I have done that. Utter waste of time.