Spirituality

[Lizzie_Borden]

What say you, fine Lit folk?

What does spirituality mean to you? Do you practice it? How do you incorporate it into your life? How does it sit with your bdsmy life aspects?

It doesn't necessarily mean religion, does it?

It's a concept I'm thinking about looking at exploring. I think it could do good things for me, but I'm absolutely not interested in aforementioned religion.

I don't know where to start though.

Anybody have some links to some beginners resources that I can look at and research? Sage words of wisdom? Personal experiences?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think spirituality means different things to different people. Though there is not necessarily a need to link to a religion, most find that where it leads can be linked back to particular beliefs, ethics and morals related to religious belief systems. Keeping an open mind and maintaining personal honesty make the journey easier and fruitful. As to how it influences or is influenced in terms of BDSM, that will vary from person to person. For myself, I don't find it a conflict.

Catalina

 

[Cattypuss]

Dyed-in-the-wool atheist here.

Closest I get to spirituality is watching the sun set over the sea.

That's pretty fucking close, mind you.

 

[Scotsman69]

I'm another atheist. Seeing Scotland 100 miles around from the top of a mountain (when it's not misty) is as near as I get. Or going to a concert with my partner... maybe a few other things, now I consider it.

Try mountaineering. Always works for me.

 

[serpentwrap]

Spirituality is often associated with religion, but there's far more to it than God, Goddesses and all the rubbish that organised religion propagates. In fact if you analyse stringently, many ancient cultures have made spirituality the end to be achieved by various means. Religion is just one of the many means. Buddhism has a series of martial arts to achieve the spiritual agenda. Yoga is another means to achieve the same. Tantrik practices is yet another alternative to achieve the spiritual emancipation.

I remember a few quotes by a great spiritual leader, "The old religion said that he was an atheist who does not believe in God. The new religion says that he is an atheist who does not believe in himself. ... Are you unselfish? That is the question. If you are, you will be perfect without reading a single religious book, without going to a single church or temple. ... Take up one idea, make that one idea your life, think of it, dream of it, live of it, let the brain, muscle, nerves, everyt part of your body be full of that idea and just leave every other idea alone. This is the way great spiritual giants are produced, iothers are merely talking machines. "

The same guy also said, "You'll be nearer to Heaven through football than through reading any holy book or scriptures."

In yoga. they say the height of spirituality is attained if you can lift your Kundalini (the centre of one's self coiled like a serpent near your navel, the body's centre of gravity) to your brains. If and when you are able to do that, they say you have achieved Nirvana, the height of spiritual evolution. That feeling, they say, is almost orgasmic, a state of eternal high and bliss, in a manner of speaking. In that state, they say one’s mind s devoid of any thought, its sheer bliss, there’s no hate, no anger, no envy, no turmoil, nothing, a state of pure nothingness.

In all honesty, isn’t that exactly the state when we have one of those earth-has-moved, bone-rattling orgasms? That to me is truly the height of spiritualism. That this state of orgasmic spiritual bliss is transitory for most of us is exactly why orgasms are so attractive. Spiritualism strives to attain a similar bliss all the time.

References to achieving spiritual heights through alternate sexuality (call it BDSM, if you will) is also seen in the tantric yogic practices. In fact, Hinduism as a philosophy, not the religion, has hordes of gems where spiritual enlightenment is achieved through BDSM or alternate sexuality. Its just being one with one’s self. One could do it through meditation where you surrender to some Supreme Force or you could achieve a similar state if you surrender to a partner in mind body and soul. Doesn’t matter if you are a dom or a sub, a true and most ideal BDSM relationship is when the partners willingly and lovingly open up their souls to each other without the tiniest of inhibitions - intellectual, spiritual, physical or emotional. That’s is when you do reach the height of spiritualism.

Spiritualism is, as the term says, finding one’s own spirit. You can employ any means, BDSM, Fetish or traditional sex, but if it helps you and your partner find your true spirit, that truly is divine. Sometimes, a mother feels the height of spiritual bliss when she is with her child. She achieves the same spiritual bliss through her motherhood. One can achieve the same bliss through sex or any other activity where one can afford to let one’s guards and ego totally vanish. Primarily its an absence of both ego and id. And that can truly happen when you are in deep love with your partner. Sex, alternate or traditional, is just a means to discover the shedding of ego and id.

And that indeed is a true spiritual bliss, to the best of my knowledge and experience.

Sorry, it turned out to be a tad long.

 

[Cattypuss]

Your question has been percolating through my innards, Lizzie.

And I'm finding that I want to say to you that in my world spirituality has something to do with.... quietness. Something to do with the mind being stilled and at peace.

Have you looked into mindfulness meditation?

Me, I just look at sunsets

 

[Chiara_searches]

Your question has been percolating through my innards, Lizzie.

And I'm finding that I want to say to you that in my world spirituality has something to do with.... quietness. Something to do with the mind being stilled and at peace.

Have you looked into mindfulness meditation?

Me, I just look at sunsets

I, myself, can never turn my brain off enough to feel like I actually meditated.

I would have to say my spirituality is related to my morals and ethics. I'm not religious, define myself as a spiritual agnostic, but have found what I feel (for me) are kernels of truths in different philosophies. I try to respect other people's religious freedom because that's what I expect them to do toward me. I try to extend kindness, even in the face of animosity (at least in my personal life) because that's what I expect in return. I guess I very much (try to) live the "do unto others." I put things in the universe's (or sometimes god's, yes lower case god's) hands when I'm struggling. I send a thank you out when things are going well. So I don't know if that all really makes me spiritual per se, but I really basically try to live my life aware that I am not the only person on this earth, aware that every action I take can have a positive or negative effect upon someone, and hope that I'm doing more positive than anything else. I hope good things happen to me, so why should I purposefully act to cause negative things happening to others?

I'm not sure how that "sits" with BDSMy things. I just seek out someone who understands the moral implications of actions, just like I would in a vanilla relationship. So I don't think I'm answering the OP - sorry!

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Spiritualism is, as the term says, finding one’s own spirit.

This is pretty close to what I believe. There are any number of ways, really, even for one individual. Particularly since, imo, just as there are different facets to our personalities, there are different facets to our spirits.

Really, if you think about it, many of the religions are seeking this through some form or other. It's more explicit in the Eastern Religions and older religions like the Navajo and Hopi religions, but it's there in the Abramic faiths as well. Returning to God/Heaven as a way to return to one's spirit, so to speak.

I exercise my spirituality through two ways. One is through meditation. I'm really bad at sitting meditation I'm better at meditations that entail repetitive movements, or "vigourous" meditation like yoga, martial arts, etc... Either way, the settling of my mind, when it happens, is very calming and leaves me feeling clear and grounded.

The other way is through..hmmm..exhilaration comes the closest. Not to say I'm an adrenaline junky. I can be exhilarated through music, love, and galloping my horse in the field (that's admittedly a bit adrenaline junky ) and, yes, sex. I'd also be game for trying other methods. Out of sheer curiosity, I would love to try one of the drug-induced spiritual ceremonies. I put a pretty strong stock in the spirit and the consciousness communicating through dreams, so when you consider the dream-like state drugs like peyote induce, I just find the whole idea very interesting.

As far as how this relates to BDSM, I'd say that it fits well into such activities. As others have noted, the descriptions of Nirvana sound suspiciously like orgasms Also, I think there are plenty of kinetic and kinesthetic activities in BDSM that lend themselves to a sort of meditation, albeit not the sitting Buddha form people usually think of!

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I think spirituality means different things to different people. Though there is not necessarily a need to link to a religion, most find that where it leads can be linked back to particular beliefs, ethics and morals related to religious belief systems. Keeping an open mind and maintaining personal honesty make the journey easier and fruitful. As to how it influences or is influenced in terms of BDSM, that will vary from person to person. For myself, I don't find it a conflict.

Catalina

I'm absolutely certain it does mean different things to different people, and given my lack of experience, it's why I'm curious about others' experiences.

I hadn't given much though to ethics and morality though. *lets the settle in my brain for a while.

Dyed-in-the-wool atheist here.

Heh. I'm pretty sure I am too. I don't care enough to look into it other than to say I don't believe in god, or religion. I *do* believe in karma, fate, etc though. There's an energy out there, that will kick you in the butt if you do a naughty.

I think that's part of what I'm looking for. My place in the world, the energy of it, and how I interact with it.

Spiritualism is, as the term says, finding one’s own spirit. [...] to let one’s guards and ego totally vanish. Primarily its an absence of both ego and id.

And that indeed is a true spiritual bliss, to the best of my knowledge and experience.

Sorry, it turned out to be a tad long.

No worries about being long, and hello serpentwrap!

That's what I want, to find that spirit. Personally, I've had an intense 12 months, I've faced up to some personal demons, I've worked on overcoming them, and I feel like I'm in a good place. But I also feel like there's a little something missing, a unifying factor, something within me, that'll explain *me* and connect me to the world, and that that knowledge will bring me peace.

I get those feelings of calmness, happiness, fulfillment within my relationship, but I also realise I can't interact with the world in quite the same way I interact with my partner. My private self is not for public consumption, so I need to dig a little deeper, and find that spirit.

I'm pretty sure it's in there, I've just gotta get in touch with it.

Your question has been percolating through my innards, Lizzie.

And I'm finding that I want to say to you that in my world spirituality has something to do with.... quietness. Something to do with the mind being stilled and at peace.

Have you looked into mindfulness meditation?

Me, I just look at sunsets

I haven't yet, but it's also on my list. I struggle with quietness, and peacefulness, because my brain likes to stay very busy worrying about minor details, so I don't have to worry about the big things. I do have to learn to quiet my mind, and then to replace some of the icky thoughts with happy ones.

I'm glad I percolated you though. This one's been on my mind a bit lately.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I, myself, can never turn my brain off enough to feel like I actually meditated.

I would have to say my spirituality is related to my morals and ethics. I'm not religious, define myself as a spiritual agnostic, but have found what I feel (for me) are kernels of truths in different philosophies. I try to respect other people's religious freedom because that's what I expect them to do toward me. I try to extend kindness, even in the face of animosity (at least in my personal life) because that's what I expect in return. I guess I very much (try to) live the "do unto others." I put things in the universe's (or sometimes god's, yes lower case god's) hands when I'm struggling. I send a thank you out when things are going well. So I don't know if that all really makes me spiritual per se, but I really basically try to live my life aware that I am not the only person on this earth, aware that every action I take can have a positive or negative effect upon someone, and hope that I'm doing more positive than anything else. I hope good things happen to me, so why should I purposefully act to cause negative things happening to others?

I'm not sure how that "sits" with BDSMy things. I just seek out someone who understands the moral implications of actions, just like I would in a vanilla relationship. So I don't think I'm answering the OP - sorry!

Nah Nah, that's all good!

Sounds to me a lot like 'mindfulness' of yourself, others, and the world.

It's a tricky one for me, I can be very selfish. I'm a sensitive person, I can only handle so much, so I tend to focus on my world, my bubble, and the people in it. So long as the people I love are ok, because I give them so much, I have a hard time extending that empathy much further.

I do try to be a good person though. A smile to a stranger never hurt, a thank you to the checkout boy, the girl who makes my lunch, expressing that appreciation. I dig random good deeds.

This is pretty close to what I believe. There are any number of ways, really, even for one individual. Particularly since, imo, just as there are different facets to our personalities, there are different facets to our spirits.

Really, if you think about it, many of the religions are seeking this through some form or other. It's more explicit in the Eastern Religions and older religions like the Navajo and Hopi religions, but it's there in the Abramic faiths as well. Returning to God/Heaven as a way to return to one's spirit, so to speak.

I exercise my spirituality through two ways. One is through meditation. I'm really bad at sitting meditation I'm better at meditations that entail repetitive movements, or "vigourous" meditation like yoga, martial arts, etc... Either way, the settling of my mind, when it happens, is very calming and leaves me feeling clear and grounded.

The other way is through..hmmm..exhilaration comes the closest. Not to say I'm an adrenaline junky. I can be exhilarated through music, love, and galloping my horse in the field (that's admittedly a bit adrenaline junky ) and, yes, sex. I'd also be game for trying other methods. Out of sheer curiosity, I would love to try one of the drug-induced spiritual ceremonies. I put a pretty strong stock in the spirit and the consciousness communicating through dreams, so when you consider the dream-like state drugs like peyote induce, I just find the whole idea very interesting.

As far as how this relates to BDSM, I'd say that it fits well into such activities. As others have noted, the descriptions of Nirvana sound suspiciously like orgasms Also, I think there are plenty of kinetic and kinesthetic activities in BDSM that lend themselves to a sort of meditation, albeit not the sitting Buddha form people usually think of!

It's interesting to explore, it's a facet of my personality I wasn't really aware existed until recently.

I love that you seek calmness through exhilaration. I know that they sound like polar opposites, but I know what you mean. It's like everything else goes away, ceases to exist, you find yourself just in that moment, just you.

I think I need to find what else exhilarates me.

 

[Etoile]

I am both atheist and non-spiritual. Nothing "speaks" to me, even nature, in that way. I am pretty hardcore science oriented and I'm usually busy analyzing things people call spiritual. I'm perfectly happy this way, and though others question if it's possible or right to live without spirituality, I'm quite satisfied without it.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I am both atheist and non-spiritual. Nothing "speaks" to me, even nature, in that way. I am pretty hardcore science oriented and I'm usually busy analyzing things people call spiritual. I'm perfectly happy this way, and though others question if it's possible or right to live without spirituality, I'm quite satisfied without it.

I love science, and also spend a lot of time analysing and following scientific discoveries, but I also feel this does not mean a person cannot be spiritual and/or religious. IME, some of the best and most noteable scientists have had strong religious beliefs, and/ or spiritual paths which they have managed to uphold without feeling it challenges their scientific self. I think it all comes down to being able to understnad it in a way which compliments both paths.

Catalina

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I am both atheist and non-spiritual. Nothing "speaks" to me, even nature, in that way. I am pretty hardcore science oriented and I'm usually busy analyzing things people call spiritual. I'm perfectly happy this way, and though others question if it's possible or right to live without spirituality, I'm quite satisfied without it.

If you're happy, that's what matters. What do you mean by nature not "speaking" to you? Do you just mean you don't find anything "spirit"-y about it? Or does it just not strike you with any sense of wonder, awe or profundity? If it's the latter, I don't doubt your happiness, but I feel kinda bad for you. It's such a nice feeling to just look out on a striking vista and just quietly be amazed by the beauties that nature holds. It doesn't contradict science-thinking in anyway or anything In fact, I think it's that kind of wonder and awe that inspires science. At some point, we all have to be fascinated in order to want to investigate something.

 

[Cattypuss]

If you're happy, that's what matters. What do you mean by nature not "speaking" to you? Do you just mean you don't find anything "spirit"-y about it? Or does it just not strike you with any sense of wonder, awe or profundity? If it's the latter, I don't doubt your happiness, but I feel kinda bad for you. It's such a nice feeling to just look out on a striking vista and just quietly be amazed by the beauties that nature holds. It doesn't contradict science-thinking in anyway or anything .

I second this.

I feel much the same for my boyfriend, who is completely unmoved by music. I feel he's missing out - he's missing out on being moved by beauty, which feels fucking fantastic.

 

[Etoile]

I love science, and also spend a lot of time analysing and following scientific discoveries, but I also feel this does not mean a person cannot be spiritual and/or religious. IME, some of the best and most noteable scientists have had strong religious beliefs, and/ or spiritual paths which they have managed to uphold without feeling it challenges their scientific self. I think it all comes down to being able to understnad it in a way which compliments both paths.

Catalina

Oh I agree with you! You are quite right, many of the best scientists do have strong religious beliefs. When I say I am grounded in science and analysis, I mean that I choose that instead of spirituality. I interact with things from an analytical perspective alone, without taking them in spiritually. And yes, finding satisfaction in both science and spirituality is probably the best, most "whole" path.

If you're happy, that's what matters. What do you mean by nature not "speaking" to you? Do you just mean you don't find anything "spirit"-y about it? Or does it just not strike you with any sense of wonder, awe or profundity? If it's the latter, I don't doubt your happiness, but I feel kinda bad for you. It's such a nice feeling to just look out on a striking vista and just quietly be amazed by the beauties that nature holds. It doesn't contradict science-thinking in anyway or anything In fact, I think it's that kind of wonder and awe that inspires science. At some point, we all have to be fascinated in order to want to investigate something.

I'm not surprised that you feel bad for me. A lot of people would react the same way. Most people simply cannot imagine not having spirituality, but I don't have it, and I am happy that way. Yes, you're right that I find very little to be wondrous or profound in nature, and also nothing "spirit"-y about it. But I'm okay with that. I will say that the two landscapes that have had the most impact on me were the Grand Canyon and the mountains of Alaska...but some people find spirituality in every flower, and I guess it just takes a LOT more to impress me.

I second this.

I feel much the same for my boyfriend, who is completely unmoved by music. I feel he's missing out - he's missing out on being moved by beauty, which feels fucking fantastic.

Oh dear...I am not into music either. I am pretty dull, I guess!

 

[shy slave]

I am a committed Spiritualist, have been for almost 20 yrs.

I know it's not everyone's 'cup of tea' but it works for me

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I'm not surprised that you feel bad for me. A lot of people would react the same way. Most people simply cannot imagine not having spirituality, but I don't have it, and I am happy that way. Yes, you're right that I find very little to be wondrous or profound in nature, and also nothing "spirit"-y about it. But I'm okay with that. I will say that the two landscapes that have had the most impact on me were the Grand Canyon and the mountains of Alaska...but some people find spirituality in every flower, and I guess it just takes a LOT more to impress me.


Oh dear...I am not into music either. I am pretty dull, I guess!

Well as I said...as long as you're happy

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

For me, religion is a devoted practice and spirituality is what you actually believe. I think that ones spirituality can be defined by the voices and thoughts in your mind when you close your eyes and just sit in silence...Who you are right then and there and how you relate to the world around you when you open them again.

I also think we can see spirituality in others in their actions and communication as they interact with the world and beings around them. If given the chance, people will always show you who they are.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I second this.

I feel much the same for my boyfriend, who is completely unmoved by music. I feel he's missing out - he's missing out on being moved by beauty, which feels fucking fantastic.

LOL, sometimes when I am sitting listening to music with tears pouring down my face I wish I could be less moved by music, but seems from what my mother tells me it began before I could even walk when I would sit or lay by the radio crying in bliss over particular artists and pieces of music....and when she sang also as she had an incredible voice. I have a similar reaction to beautiful landscapes or nature...never go anywhere without tissues in my pocket.

Catalina

 

[Cattypuss]

Ha ha me too Catalina - nature and music just... get to me... in a way that other stuff doesn't. My boyf understands the concept, cos nature gets him that way too, but music just leaves him cold.

I was listening to Elgar's Nimrod the other day and cracking up to it and he was just chatting away over it and looking at me like there was something wrong with me lol.

 

[serpentwrap]

No worries about being long, and hello serpentwrap!

That's what I want, to find that spirit. Personally, I've had an intense 12 months, I've faced up to some personal demons, I've worked on overcoming them, and I feel like I'm in a good place. But I also feel like there's a little something missing, a unifying factor, something within me, that'll explain *me* and connect me to the world, and that that knowledge will bring me peace.

I get those feelings of calmness, happiness, fulfillment within my relationship, but I also realise I can't interact with the world in quite the same way I interact with my partner. My private self is not for public consumption, so I need to dig a little deeper, and find that spirit.

I'm pretty sure it's in there, I've just gotta get in touch with it.

Don't fret too much over it. You already are on the path to spirituality. {Gosh, that does sound like one of the many fraud evangelists } The very fact that you've started feeling that "emptiness", that a piece is kinda amiss means that your seeking that spiritual calmness within you. And whether you go to a guru, or talk to your partner or read books or stand naked in the Himalayas, the fact is that this "revelation" in a manner of speaking will dawn on you of its own accord. The uneasiness you must feel at times is the churn within. Till one Eureka moment, you'll suddenly discover the equilibrium within yourself. That, my dear is the spiritual one-ness with your self you seek. When that moment happens, remember me. I bet there will be a cosmic resonance, if I'm alive... Some of us are so obdurately stuck with our own self, that our private self acquires a demi-God like status for us. There's no easy way out. Thats your personality. All it means you'll have to go through the entire process yourself. People like us have to re-invent the wheel to ride it, metaphorically speaking, of course... Wish you the very best...