Speechless

[Nirvanadragones]

http://www.treatmentshomosexuality.org.uk/

I'm not able to accurately verbalise right now what I think, and how I feel about this. I'm sure many people on here will give us their opinion though.

 

[Guest]

It's hard to know what to make of the site; it seems to be fairly value-neutral based on what's there at the moment. They're admittedly collecting individual case histories but I can't tell whether they're promoting "treatment" for homosexuality or doing preliminary data-gathering to evaluate the feasibility and effectiveness of such practices.

Of course, I'm sick as dog right now so I may not be reading clearly.

 

[impressive]

I glanced. It doesn't seem to be preachy, but rather to offer a service to those who desire it. The slippery slope is the motivation of its clientele. Were society more accepting, would they still desire "treatment"? I kinda doubt it. I'd rather put my time and energy and money into treating the real disease rather than one of its unfortunate symptoms.

My heart goes out to the people who feel compelled to seek such treatment. I wish them peace.

 

[Guest]

I think this is the survey that the site mentions appearing in BMC Psychiatry, It's not at all pro-treatment for homosexuality.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Believe it or dont, but the homosexual lifestyle isnt for everyone, regardless of their sexual orientation.

My idea of Hell is living at a gym and eating nutricious food 24/7. I like the nice body BUT I dont want what it costs. Homosexuality comes with some huge costs.

 

[Guest]

You're right. But, do you think those costs are intrinsic or extrinsic?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Both.

I mrean, some people enjoy the gym and celery sticks. Some people live for the energy of gay bars, etc.

I wish like Hell I enjoyed the company of people, but after 60 years of dealing with all their bullshit, the solitary life is easier on my tired, old bones. I dont wanna do people math no more. if there was some kind of therapy group to help me like people, I'd join it. I know gays who have the exact same sentiments, theyre weary of the bullshit and a relationship with a woman simply solves a lot of math problems for them. Fucking isnt the be-all, end-all of life.

 

[Safe_Bet]

The website is new and under development. It is about use of treatments that aim to make homosexual people heterosexual.

Websites and programs like this come up every now and then and are complete bullshit. You can't fix what's not broke. You can't make homosexual people straight. You may be able to teach them how to fake it, but you sure as hell can't cure them.

I personally find sites like this reprehensible. Being queer has tremendous psychological challenges. Waving a panacea in front of a group, in which many have/are suffering severe depression due to societal bigotry, is disgusting.

 

[Verdad]

It's hard to know what to make of the site; it seems to be fairly value-neutral based on what's there at the moment. They're admittedly collecting individual case histories but I can't tell whether they're promoting "treatment" for homosexuality or doing preliminary data-gathering to evaluate the feasibility and effectiveness of such practices.

Of course, I'm sick as dog right now so I may not be reading clearly.

Your reading is right. From what I could see in a few minutes of skimming, these are neither bad guys nor charlatans. They're collecting data first and foremost, and if they have an agenda, it looks supportive of homosexuals rather than the opposite.

 

[BertrandRussell]

Consenting adults

A common theme heard in this forum is "It's not my preferred kink, but if it makes you happy, go for it. I'll support your right to do it." It is usually invoked when someone expresses an interest in non-mainstream activites/values. Why should we act any differently when someone tends toward mainstream values?

As long as it is between consenting adults, I have no problem with it.

 

[TE999]

IMO this is akin to similar non-medical, pseudo-scientific 'treatments' put forth in earlier times to 'cure' the 'sickness' of desiring someone of your own sex. It's a corruption of societal convention and a value judgement based on ignorance and abhorrence of an alternative lifestyle.

Short version: It's predjudicial, plain and simple. It's also bullshit.

 

[Verdad]

A common theme heard in this forum is "It's not my preferred kink, but if it makes you happy, go for it. I'll support your right to do it." It is usually invoked when someone expresses an interest in non-mainstream activites/values. Why should we act any differently when someone tends toward mainstream values?

As long as it is between consenting adults, I have no problem with it.

I don't think you have a point, here. If a group of people suffers pressure to feel abnormal, and then 'consensually' enters a treatment for curing the alleged abnormality, I would not say that falls under "hey, whatever floats your boat." Their 'consensual' choice is hardly untainted.

My point about the website in question is that it doesn't seem to offer treatment, though. Or promote it. They seem to be collecting data with the goal of evaluating the existing treatments. One possible motivation for that would be to prove the treatments are ineffective and even harmful.

 

[Pure]

their (wellcome's) own explanation coincides with verdad's reading.

http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/News/Media-office/Press-releases/2009/WTX053916.htm

 

[Belegon]

I'm not sure what Vana's feelings are about the particular site or which direction she intended the discussion to go.

But having read the faculty bios, they are very non-committal in giving an opinion on the subject they are researching. As they should be. They are attempting to collect data and should not be seen to favor either side of the debate that Amy and Tom jumped into feet first here.

IMHO, based on reading the bios and looking at the links, they are looking to collect data only at this point.

My suspicion is that they are against the practice they are collecting data on. It's a gut feeling based primarily on their credentials.

Remember, they want data from people who have gone through this. If they are trying to collect data from a man who believes he has been "cured," they need to be seen as not being against him.

Such a person would hardly share if the website started out, "We are collecting data to clearly show that the practice of "curing homosexuality" is damaging to the people who undergo it and does not work."

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It seems like the idea of sexual re-orientation threatens plenty of gay people. I suppose in their minds the closet door only swings one way. Maybe a gay or lesbian wants kids and has traditional ideas about kids needing moms & dads.

 

[DesertPirate]

Right now I wish Rob was here
"Humans "
We can keep the spirit

 

[playwithlezli]

Your reading is right. From what I could see in a few minutes of skimming, these are neither bad guys nor charlatans. They're collecting data first and foremost, and if they have an agenda, it looks supportive of homosexuals rather than the opposite.

I concur with Verdad.

 

[playwithlezli]

It seems like the idea of sexual re-orientation threatens plenty of gay people. I suppose in their minds the closet door only swings one way. Maybe a gay or lesbian wants kids and has traditional ideas about kids needing moms & dads.

You don't need re-orientation for that, just be married for a couple of years, then there's no sex anyways.

 

[cloudy]

You don't need re-orientation for that, just be married for a couple of years, then there's no sex anyways.

I beg to differ.

It was fifteen years of being married for us this past Monday, and while we may not have sex as often as we used to (due to kids, etc.) there is absolutely no lack of activity.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Given: From clear back in the '30's when Kinsey first started his research it is pretty well established that there is no homosexuality vs heterosexuality. There is a continuum from all one to all the other with a myriad of points in between.

Someone on the same-sex side of the center or dead in the center with exclusive same sex experience might find it possible to be compatible with someone of the opposite sex. That does not constitute a "cure" for homosexuality. It but a readjustment. Hell, somewhere out there in the world might be a guy who attracts me. It happened before, a long time ago. That doesn't mean that my primarily heterosexual orientation can be "cured", people.

 

[playwithlezli]

I beg to differ.

It was fifteen years of being married for us this past Monday, and while we may not have sex as often as we used to (due to kids, etc.) there is absolutely no lack of activity.

Excellent!

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I beg to differ.

It was fifteen years of being married for us this past Monday, and while we may not have sex as often as we used to (due to kids, etc.) there is absolutely no lack of activity.

Damned straight! It will be forty-one years for us in eleven days and while the activity isn't as much as I'd like, celibacy is not an option.

 

[Fallenfromgrace]

I would like to quote, directly from the website:

''It is about use of so-called "treatments" that aim to make homosexual people heterosexual.''

and

''Treatments to change a person's sexuality are unethical and may be damaging. This is because homosexuality is NOT a disorder.''

They sound like they are doing research to discredit the idea that there are Magical Cures for Homosexuality.

I am lucky enough once in a while to be at the station early enough to pick up the free commuter paper, and the front page reads: ''Experts Still Try 'Cures' for gays'' i was horrified.

I am doing a paper of my choice on Counselling Ethnic Minority Homosexual's- basically bringing in the pysychological difficulties EM H's may be faced with, which comprise both the same difficulties often faced by other Homosexuals, and also unique ones because they are multi-minorities. This kind of research is useful to me, and it came at a good time for me to highlight some points.

 

[DesertPirate]

I would like to quote, directly from the website:

''It is about use of so-called "treatments" that aim to make homosexual people heterosexual.''

and

''Treatments to change a person's sexuality are unethical and may be damaging. This is because homosexuality is NOT a disorder.''

They sound like they are doing research to discredit the idea that there are Magical Cures for Homosexuality.

I am lucky enough once in a while to be at the station early enough to pick up the free commuter paper, and the front page reads: ''Experts Still Try 'Cures' for gays'' i was horrified.

I am doing a paper of my choice on Counselling Ethnic Minority Homosexual's- basically bringing in the pysychological difficulties EM H's may be faced with, which comprise both the same difficulties often faced by other Homosexuals, and also unique ones because they are multi-minorities. This kind of research is useful to me, and it came at a good time for me to highlight some points.

You just might do more good than anyone conected with the original site!