Specific Munches - are they discriminating?

[sexycaz22]

Last night, I went along to the Edinburgh munch as usual, and had an awesome night!

However, someone has told me that the organiser of the munch have barred someone from the munch for the reason that the person who is barred, have organised the U35 (under 35 munches) and says that it was discriminating to the older people who can't attend.

Then on the thread on another site, the organiser of the Edinburgh munch said that he would ban anyone who have organised the U35 munches or the Ladies munches or anything on the grounds that it is discriminating.

Personally, for me, I don't think it is a big deal as the U35 munch is organised in Glasgow, along with other munches organised AND there are about 4 munches in total in Glasgow, all on different nights, different times etc.

Edinburgh have only one munch, but I enjoy going. However if the deaf community just happens to organise a DEAF only munch, and that it is held on a different night, I would have gone, but only because the other people would be going through similar experiences as me and because I feel more comfortable where there are other deaf people around so I can chat with them and have more fun than I would in a munch which is mixed. (not that it would happen! But then there is a Deaf club I go to regularly apart from when the Edinburgh munch is on)

I am the only one who is deaf in the Edinburgh munch and I do enjoy going there, however, I would feel a bit left out sometimes in conversations.

So, I suppose the question is do you think that it is discriminating that munches are organised for specific people, or do you think it isn't a big deal?

 

[Chris_Xavier]

Sounds to me that whoever is in charge of the Edinburgh munch has a twig up his arse.

 

[wicked woman]

Don't have a problem with 'discriminating' munches...even if the criteria used to discriminate is one I might dislike.

Sounds to me like the Edinburgh munch organizer is on a power trip. 'I'll ban you because I can.' Having said that, I also understand where he's coming from. There used to be only 1 munch in my city. I've been told it was well attended and the place to go. Over time, various people started setting up other munches...in the suburbs...in smaller cities within an hour drive...for various interests (e.g. Ladies and male subs). There are now so many munches available that the generic one in the city is very poorly attended.

 

[Mazuri]

We had a similar situation in a different organization/group that I belonged to. The organizer loved the feeling of being 'in charge,' of being the one who got the kudos/praise for her organizational skills, of getting all the pats on the back for her hard work and tireless devotion to keeping things alive. When the date chosen made it impossible for a sizable number to participate, a second date was organized for those who couldn't make the original but was also open to anyone who wanted to make it. Some only went to meetings on the original date, some only went to the ones on the alternate date, some went to both.

Needless to say, she wasn't amused. In short, she went ape-shit and said that if folks liked the other meeting better then she'd just stop putting in all her hard work organizing the original and just turn it over to someone else. Her diatribe went on for some time and basically let everyone know that she thought her "power" was being taken away from her; her place in the spotlight; her insta-praise and fawning.

It was ugly.

Eventually what happened was BOTH dates were canceled and the group fell apart and simply stopped meeting at all for a long time. The fun and feeling of community was ripped away due to one person's power trip and need for being in the center of the spotlight.

While this may not be the situation, nor may it reflect the feelings of the original munch organizer, it seems quite childish and dictatorial from what you've posted.

I think someone needs to explain to the munch organizer that instead of alienating all these other meets, he should welcome them as having something unique to offer, especially if he's unwilling to host his own specialty munches aimed at certain members of the community.

 

[oneguy4fun]

By defintion itself it is discrimination because the group is resticting membership based on personal criteria. However, it does not mean that it is wrong. It makes sense that people would want to congregate with similair people. Private clubs can be set-up based on specific criteria if it is the main interest of the members. This is called lawful discrimination. Where it gets unlawful or inapprorpriate is if you discriminate against a particular individual (e.g. you allow people over 35 but one person is disfigured so you do not allow that person into the club).

 

[HB1965]

Personally I think someone is taking things to seriously or feels that he/she is missing out on something if another munch is held where he/she is not invited. There are a number of organizations that hold meetings for different age groups. Why should this be any different?

 

[sexycaz22]

Personally I think someone is taking things to seriously or feels that he/she is missing out on something if another munch is held where he/she is not invited. There are a number of organizations that hold meetings for different age groups. Why should this be any different?

Yes, I fully agree with you!

 

[JMohegan]

The irony of someone barring people because they've barred people makes me chuckle.

Nevertheless, those who organize private gatherings have the right to invite or exclude whomever they please.

That applies to organizers seeking attendees who are exclusively female, gay, protocol fans, old, young, skinny, fat, tall, short, experienced, novices, etc. And it applies to those seeking non-discriminating attendees as well.

 

[FurryFury]

People are petty little bitches. In fighting goes on. I hate shit like that.

 

[JMohegan]

People are petty little bitches. In fighting goes on. I hate shit like that.

Yes.

And why I don't spend much time in organized group settings.

 

[Netzach]

I have a big problem with anyone who has a problem with the fact that periodically I want to be around lesbians, women, Jews, whatever niche.

 

[FurryFury]

I have a big problem with anyone who has a problem with the fact that periodically I want to be around lesbians, women, Jews, whatever niche.

I agree it's no one's business.

Years and years ago, I used to throw a party. It wasn't for the people I usually hung out with but for the people who came to town for the holidays that I didn't see the whole rest of the year.

Well my regular buds decided I was either mean or meant to invite them and came anyway.

Pissed me the hell off!

 

[FurryFury]

Yes.

And why I don't spend much time in organized group settings.

I feel that I have to in order to get my kids and community all the things (or as many of them that I can arrange) what I want them to have.

 

[myinnerslut]

i have never gone to one, but i would be much more likely to go to a U35 then an all inclusive one. why? not becuase i dont like talking to people over 35, au contrair, but becuase as a nineteen year old i get a lot of shit from older people assuming i must be completly inexperienced and niave becuase of my age. if they talked to me for more then 2 minutes theyd realize that i have RL experience, and have been involve in BDSM for a few years, despite my age, but i dont often get that chance to talk with them. besides, i hate having to prove myself. id assume in a munch aimed towards younger people, id have to deal with less of that.

 

[BiBunny]

i have never gone to one, but i would be much more likely to go to a U35 then an all inclusive one. why? not becuase i dont like talking to people over 35, au contrair, but becuase as a nineteen year old i get a lot of shit from older people assuming i must be completly inexperienced and niave becuase of my age. if they talked to me for more then 2 minutes theyd realize that i have RL experience, and have been involve in BDSM for a few years, despite my age, but i dont often get that chance to talk with them. besides, i hate having to prove myself. id assume in a munch aimed towards younger people, id have to deal with less of that.

Ditto. I was thinking about this last night. There was a munch group meeting in this town last night for the first time ever (or at least since I've lived here). I ended up not going because I didn't want to be the only person in my 20s there. (I'm 23, will be 24 next month.) No offense to anyone on this board because I'd hang out with y'all in a heartbeat, but being around dirty old men (or women) creeps me the fuck out. Not everyone who's older than I am is a creep, of course, but there are always some in any kind of group. *Shudder* Then, like you said, there are those who don't think you're "real," whatever that means, because of your age. I've probably been involved in BDSM a lot longer than those 30- or 40-something divorcees with a "spank me, Daddy, tee-hee" attitude, but who cares because I'm only in my early 20s, right?

The problem is, most people in our age group are still like, "OMG, he tried to put it in my ass!" about sex. Some of my friends like kinky play, but they don't crave it like I do. I really feel like there are very few people I can relate to. If the munch organizer can't appreciate that there are some environments that other people feel more comfortable in, then I'd tell him to go fuck himself. But that's just me.

 

[naxalite0906]

Sounds like a Dom enjoying the power a bit too much to me


I agree that branching out can only be a good thing and that for me an U35 etc one what be much more appealing to me. In fact I would goto both, but I guess I would make more of an effort with the U35 one just to meet people closer to my age.

Yes, it is wonderful to mix and talk with ppl of all ages (hell, im the youngest person in my office by a long way, but doesnt mean they are not my friends) but in choosing a partner, it would be nice to be with someone closer to my age.

 

[sexycaz22]

i have never gone to one, but i would be much more likely to go to a U35 then an all inclusive one. why? not becuase i dont like talking to people over 35, au contrair, but becuase as a nineteen year old i get a lot of shit from older people assuming i must be completly inexperienced and niave becuase of my age. if they talked to me for more then 2 minutes theyd realize that i have RL experience, and have been involve in BDSM for a few years, despite my age, but i dont often get that chance to talk with them. besides, i hate having to prove myself. id assume in a munch aimed towards younger people, id have to deal with less of that.

At the Edinburgh munch, there are a few people who are in their 20s too, but the majority are maybe over 35s - and although, most of them are really nice and very friendly, I relate more with those who are in their 20s, or early 30s.

Some older people are very wary of me, from their body languages, but not because of my age; but because that I am deaf. So they don't come over and talk to me, which is perfectly fine with me, as there are other people!!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Some older people are very wary of me, from their body languages, but not because of my age; but because that I am deaf. So they don't come over and talk to me, which is perfectly fine with me, as there are other people!!

Do you know for a fact it is your deafness that prevents them from talking to or mixing with you? I only ask as I have been the victim of people who think they know what my body language is saying (1 in particular who is supposed to be a professional and really has no clue as she always draws conclusions based on her dogmatic beliefs in body language and she is always miles from what is really going on) when it is not even remotely close, and I also remember one of my favourite lecturers at uni giving a demonstration on just how easy it is to misread a person's body language which proved 95% of the class wrong, all of who were certain they knew exactly what was being conveyed by body language and how to use it in practice.

Unless you know a person well, and you know what is going on with them at that point in time, body language can steer you very wrong...and do so even if you have that extra information. In younger years when I was not quite as confident and at peace with myself I often thought I knew what someone was thinking about me etc., only to find out painfully a lot later that I had been so wrong and caused myself a lot of unnecessary anguish in the process. Couldn't it be as simple as that they just don't see themselves as having much in common with you, or to offer you or you them, similar to why you are drawn more to those in their 20's and early 30's? It may even be you are giving off vibes based on what you think they are thinking which dissuades them from gravitating in your direction. Body language is a fun thing, but for all the hype it puts out about accuracy, it really is often little more accurate than the horoscope in the newspaper.

Catalina

 

[sexycaz22]

Do you know for a fact it is your deafness that prevents them from talking to or mixing with you? I only ask as I have been the victim of people who think they know what my body language is saying (1 in particular who is supposed to be a professional and really has no clue as she always draws conclusions based on her dogmatic beliefs in body language and she is always miles from what is really going on) when it is not even remotely close, and I also remember one of my favourite lecturers at uni giving a demonstration on just how easy it is to misread a person's body language which proved 95% of the class wrong, all of who were certain they knew exactly what was being conveyed by body language and how to use it in practice.

Unless you know a person well, and you know what is going on with them at that point in time, body language can steer you very wrong...and do so even if you have that extra information. In younger years when I was not quite as confident and at peace with myself I often thought I knew what someone was thinking about me etc., only to find out painfully a lot later that I had been so wrong and caused myself a lot of unnecessary anguish in the process. Couldn't it be as simple as that they just don't see themselves as having much in common with you, or to offer you or you them, similar to why you are drawn more to those in their 20's and early 30's? It may even be you are giving off vibes based on what you think they are thinking which dissuades them from gravitating in your direction. Body language is a fun thing, but for all the hype it puts out about accuracy, it really is often little more accurate than the horoscope in the newspaper.

Catalina

Once again, you have made a good point! Yes, I did make assumptions! And you might be quite right too.

It is only a small group of people who didn't talk to me. But once again, you are right, perhaps it's not my deafness which might have prevented them from coming over and talking to me!

I think it is because of my experiences with being discriminated against that have made me a bit wry of hearing people. For a long time, I never mixed with hearing people in a social way, but lately I have tried to get out and about, and finding that the people from the BDSM scene/lifestyle/community are more open-minded and more relaxed about talking to people with a physical disability or a hearing impairment, more than when I talked with guys from vanilla dating sites.

Thank you for making me think twice now, Catalina.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thank you for making me think twice now, Catalina.

LOL, well I just have learned my lesson the hard way and wasted many an opportunity through my incorrect assumptions.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

i have never gone to one, but i would be much more likely to go to a U35 then an all inclusive one. why? not becuase i dont like talking to people over 35, au contrair, but becuase as a nineteen year old i get a lot of shit from older people assuming i must be completly inexperienced and niave becuase of my age. if they talked to me for more then 2 minutes theyd realize that i have RL experience, and have been involve in BDSM for a few years, despite my age, but i dont often get that chance to talk with them. besides, i hate having to prove myself. id assume in a munch aimed towards younger people, id have to deal with less of that.

This is why they have those events and why I personally, quit going to them when I hit 32. I don't want to be pushing the youth angle just because I have more in common with the under 35. Because of people bitching about discrimination no one enforces or respects any cut off here and so it's really the same as the main munch.

The fact that sexycaz has to be concerned about blacklisting for wanting to go to an event for deaf kinksters burns my proverbial toast bigtime.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

... I ended up not going because I didn't want to be the only person in my 20s there. (I'm 23, will be 24 next month.) No offense to anyone on this board because I'd hang out with y'all in a heartbeat, but being around dirty old men (or women) creeps me the fuck out. Not everyone who's older than I am is a creep, of course, but there are always some in any kind of group....

Not knowing anything about the group or what, if any, information you had about the composition of age ranges of those attending the first time ever meeting, I'll just ask you to speculate on this:

Assuming there were a dozen under 20's who wanted to go, maybe one or two actually worked up the nerve to go. But because the other 10 wimped out for various reasons (including because they "didn't want to be the only ones there"), the two who did show up WERE the only ones there. And perhaps felt awkward or out of place. You may have made a difference.

The group I started, T3, has Special Interest Groups (SIGs) within the main group. The most successful and long running has been the subSIG for our pyl's. The Dom SIG was active for a while, we had a Singles SIG that lasted a year or two, there has been a sputtered attempt to launch a GLBT SIG... Our approach (probably because _I_ set it) has been "The more the merrier!"

We not only have our own "segregated" sub groups within the main group, we support and encourage neighboring groups by offering reciprocity...If our members can attend their events we allow there members to attend ours. Columbia has a 2nd realtime group and we do not ostracize or criticize the founders or members of that group. We try to support their events, and many people are members of both groups.

*shrugs* Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? ? ? Different strokes for different folks. sounds like your Edinburgh organizer needs a lesson in respecting diversity, but in the long run, it's his own throat he's cutting...

 

[FurryFury]

Age has come up before. I'll say what I said last time, which is also what I do. I take people as people. Age matters little to me. People do.

 

[BiBunny]

Not knowing anything about the group or what, if any, information you had about the composition of age ranges of those attending the first time ever meeting, I'll just ask you to speculate on this:

Assuming there were a dozen under 20's who wanted to go, maybe one or two actually worked up the nerve to go. But because the other 10 wimped out for various reasons (including because they "didn't want to be the only ones there"), the two who did show up WERE the only ones there. And perhaps felt awkward or out of place. You may have made a difference.

Perhaps. I also have a totally irrational fear of meeting and talking with people I don't know well or at all. When those people are out of my age range or "authority" figures, like professors or something, it's even worse. Just let me soak in my own pathology here, ok, EG?

 

[Netzach]

I may even be *attracted* to people older than I am but if I want to hang out with people and just generally do stuff and relate most of them will be in my bracket whatever that might mean.

I'm discriminating in my age bracket too. If we'd talked about music and I said "the Pixies" and he'd have said "what?" I don't think it would have worked out at all for us.