SpaceShipOne!

[amicus]

Been out of town for a week or so...not near the cable channels or even the keyboard.

Was pleased to discover on my return, the Science Channel Broadcast, Black Skies...the Ansari X Prize of 10 million dollars. Also fortunate to view the live Broadcast, again on the Science Channel, but also covered by Cable News in varying degrees.

The 'X' Prize is to be awarded to the first non government agency, (private corporation) to place a reuseable vehicle in 'space' defined as 100 KM/328,000 feet, an arbitrary line between the upper reaches of the atmosphere and the edge of space. The rules also required that the spacecraft carry and return safetly, three human passengers, or the equivalent weight of two passengers and a live pilot/astronaut.

Unofficially, SpaceShipOne reached an altitude over 100km for the second time and returned safely to earth Monday morning, October 4th, 2004.

There are many interesting aspects to this first ever private enterprise venture into space and I am curious to see if any Lit forum participants find it interesting....

amicus.....

 

[Liar]

Well, I know what I'll want for my 50th birthday.

#L

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I can't remember the name of the guy who designed the thing (Dick Rutan? Ruvak?) but he designed that plane that flew around the world on one tank of gas, so he knows something about what he's doing.

Most of the money came from that guy Allen who made billions with Bill Gates off Microsoft. I think he put up 20 million of his own cash, so he's not really that concerned with the prize, although he won't turn it down either.

I'm just a whiz with names.

---dr.M.

 

[fogbank]

I was really hoping that our Canadian entry would have at least gotten one of its qualifying flights in before SpaceShipOne won. Oh well; I hope they still go through with it and launch their craft anyway.

 

[amicus]

Yes. Mab...Rutan...I think..and yes, Allen was the money man...and...Fogbank...all the entries were displayed...the Canadians will continue and hope to have a launch before the end of the year....If I recall....The Rocket propellant was curious, Liquid Nitrous Oxide (laughing gas) and old rubber tires...so they said...much less dangerous than LOX that NASA uses....

The hinted underlying criticism of NASA was that they are decades behind modern technology....interesting statement...I wonder if it is true?

amicus...

 

[thebullet]

The first Robert Heinlein book I read was Rocket Ship Gallileo. It seems all of the space flight books from the 40's and 50's were about privately funded rockets.

I'm the first to agree that some industries need a jump start by government to 'get off of the ground' so to speak. But for the last decade or two I can't say that government has done that very well. It's more than time for private industry to take the lead in space exploration and/or exploitation.

To me, this was a giant step.

 

[thenry]

I'm curious about the economics of the stunt more than anything. In this case, Virgin licensed the winning technology for $25 million (actually repaying the original investment). The new firm will be called "Virgin Galactic" and will use a fleet of SpaceShipOne's (probably named …Two, …Three, at least if I were in charge) to fly passengers to the edge of space for ~$200,000 a piece. Market size is estimated at 3,000 people.

More interesting for me is the American Space Prize for an orbiter by the end of the decade.

 

[amicus]

In a way it does seems somewhat like a 'stunt'. I have not researched what future plans they may have, but the payload at this time and perhaps even the technology for docking and transfer is beyond their scope...or perhaps will require some collaboration with NASA and other national space agencies.

And I question the structure in terms of leaving orbit at the speeds necessary to stay in orbit are much greater than the Mach 3 or so they accomplished....

still...an interesting development....

amicus...

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I have no problem with private space exploration, as long as they don't start putting advertisements on the moon.

Who owns space, by the way? What's to stop a business from putting up orbiting billboards?

---dr.M.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I have no problem with private space exploration, as long as they don't start putting advertisements on the moon.

Who owns space, by the way? What's to stop a business from putting up orbiting billboards?

---dr.M.

there are international accords that hold space to be non proprietary, but the simple fact is once someone decides to claim it, if they put a functional weapons system up there, they would be hard to argue with. I've read several cyberpunk books that deal with it. It's a well used premise.

 

[BigAndTall]

there are international accords that hold space to be non proprietary, but the simple fact is once someone decides to claim it, if they put a functional weapons system up there, they would be hard to argue with. I've read several cyberpunk books that deal with it. It's a well used premise.

Well i think when those treaties were written up, it was assumed that only a gov't could get into space. Those were back in the early 70s right?

Sounds like they might need to revisit this issue.

 

[thebullet]

Dr M asked:

Who owns space, by the way? What's to stop a business from putting up orbiting billboards?

I know I am a Heinlein fanatic, but it seems appropriate to point out that back in the '40s, Heinlein asked the same question. He wrote about an obscenely rich person (was it Harriman, something like that?) who bought the land around the world that is directly under where the moon's orbit lies. (I don't know if that is logical, so don't blame me for RAH's ideas). After acquiring all the land he laid claim to the moon, saying it was 'on' his property. The story was The Man Who Sold the Moon.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

We have satellites over the former USSR and China, and the USSR had them over the USA, as part of an early warning system against missile attack. We left each other’s satellites alone because (1) space didn’t belong to anyone, kind of like the high seas, (2) since an attack on the satellites would probably precede a sneak missile attack, an attack on the other’s spy satellites was tantamount to an outright attack, and (3) there wasn’t much we could do about it, at least before we had the space shuttle.

But what if someone started launching some sort of giant mylar advertisement satellites? Someone who was like a combination of Rupert Murdoch and Lex Luther…

---dr.M.

 

[amicus]

Was there not a novel...Heinlein I think, The Man Who Sold the Moon? I also recall, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress....I think...

I should not delve into this...but I just helped someone study for a midterm in Macro Economics and actually found written in a textbook, the phrase..."A free market place is the only system that has ever supplied the demands of a people..." Or something like that....

I mention that...as 40 years ago, during my college days...when John Maynard Keynes seemed to be the only game in town, free market or 'classical economics' aka Adam Smith...were not being taught in introductory classes in economics.

I was somewhat surprised to see a college text advocating a free market theory.

I do not wish to step on toes...or even start an argument, but what is wrong with billboards in orbit or on the moon?

Proprietary rights, private ownership of land and resources...why is that such a terrible concept to so many?

I am not a business man....business bores me to tears...acquiring large amounts of money has also never been a quest of mine. Although while I find the tastes of most business people somewhat crass and mundane....and much of what they produce, created to appeal to the lowest common denominator, I do find that those skilled in business and corporate creativity and even money management, banking, investments and the like play an important and in my eyes, essential role in the market place.

As I said...I should probably not enough venture forth with this...but I am truly curious if those of you who detest business and corporate entities could explain why you feel that way.

The billionaire from Virgin Galactic Airlines said first 6,000 then 5,000 people had already commited to paying $200,000 each for a brief sub orbital flight and five larger versions of SpaceShipOne have already been ordered with delivery due in three years.

anyway...if you would take a moment to tell me why you don't want billboards in orbit or on the moon...I would appreciate it.

amicus....

 

[thenry]

The problem with admitting ownership of lunar property is that someone already does, as well as numerous large cometary bodies.

In practicality I think it will only matter once people or governments are on the moon. I imagine the regions around the poles where the water is will be the sites of contention.