Song Lyrics

[Scandilove]

Apologies if this has been posted before.

In the next chapter of my story I'd like to show a character singing and dancing to a favourite song. It's a meaningful song for the character and allows further insight into their situation.

Does the site have any rules against including a song in a story? I plan to put an authors note attributing the song but what are the rules here?

Thanks

S

 

[sr71plt]

Apologies if this has been posted before.

In the next chapter of my story I'd like to show a character singing and dancing to a favourite song. It's a meaningful song for the character and allows further insight into their situation.

Does the site have any rules against including a song in a story? I plan to put an authors note attributing the song but what are the rules here?

Thanks

S

The answer goes beyond the Web site. The area of songs is where copyright suits are most common. Although it hasn't been legally established that you can quote any copyrighted song lyrics at all without written permission without being successfully sued, the publishing industry has established that up to two lines total of song lyrics can be published in a work without fear of suit. The exception to this is a critique of the song lyrics themselves, which, though, would be nonfiction, not fiction. So, beyond the two lines would be your risk and then Literotica's if they published them--although there's little likelihood the copyright owner would notice you or try to sue. It becomes more of an ethics issue. Can you see that your own wish for protection of your intellectual property should be extended to others as well?

 

[Scandilove]

The answer goes beyond the Web site. The area of songs is where copyright suits are most common. Although it hasn't been legally established that you can quote any copyrighted song lyrics at all without written permission without being successfully sued, the publishing industry has established that up to two lines total of song lyrics can be published in a work without fear of suit. The exception to this is a critique of the song lyrics themselves, which, though, would be nonfiction, not fiction. So, beyond the two lines would be your risk and then Literotica's if they published them--although there's little likelihood the copyright owner would notice you or try to sue. It becomes more of an ethics issue. Can you see that your own wish for protection of your intellectual property should be extended to others as well?

Hi,

Yeah, of course. I guess I'd argue that I'm not trying to sell my story. It's just being posted onto a website for a bit of fun, so I don't make any commercial gain from using the lyrics. Not sure if that makes any difference but then that's why I asked.

Thanks!

 

[Nezhul]

There's such thing as fair use. You can quote a few lines or break it down, if you feen uncomfortable, but generally you can quote the whole song's lyrics. As long as you don't claim that you wrote it yourself or make it clear to say who did - then you will be okay.

Generally you will only need to mention a title and the fact that she's dancing for it. Maybe quote one or two lines, but not more. THAT - you can definitely do without fearing to be banned or sued.
The author can then ask you to remove that, but that happens REALLY rarely.

 

[Scandilove]

There's such thing as fair use. You can quote a few lines or break it down, if you feen uncomfortable, but generally you can quote the whole song's lyrics. As long as you don't claim that you wrote it yourself or make it clear to say who did - then you will be okay.

Generally you will only need to mention a title and the fact that she's dancing for it. Maybe quote one or two lines, but not more. THAT - you can definitely do without fearing to be banned or sued.
The author can then ask you to remove that, but that happens REALLY rarely.

Thanks. I'd read about the fair use exemptions, for teachers for example but I wanted to post a couple of verses which probably wouldn't be covered by the exemption.

I wonder if there's a mod who can comment on this in terms of the stance the site takes? I'm not concerned about being sued, like I said, no commercial gain here. And if it came to anything like that the story would rightly get taken down - again, no problem from my perspective. But how do those who maintain the site feel about the issue?

 

[sr71plt]

There's such thing as fair use. You can quote a few lines or break it down, if you feen uncomfortable, but generally you can quote the whole song's lyrics. As long as you don't claim that you wrote it yourself or make it clear to say who did - then you will be okay.

Generally you will only need to mention a title and the fact that she's dancing for it. Maybe quote one or two lines, but not more. THAT - you can definitely do without fearing to be banned or sued.
The author can then ask you to remove that, but that happens REALLY rarely.

That's a bunch of harmful disinformation.

Fair use is for copying material for college classes and libraries. You'd get the horse laugh in court in trying to apply it to writing erotica fiction.

 

[NoJo]

Apologies if this has been posted before.

In the next chapter of my story I'd like to show a character singing and dancing to a favourite song. It's a meaningful song for the character and allows further insight into their situation.

Does the site have any rules against including a song in a story? I plan to put an authors note attributing the song but what are the rules here?

Thanks

S

I'm trying to imagine when I'd feel the need to quote a whole song verbatim, just because the lyrics are poignant. Surely, simply quoting certain lines, and the protagonist's reaction to them, as he/she danced, would be enough? Otherwise it's kind of getting the song's lyricist to articulate what you as an author are wanting to convey.

 

[Scandilove]

I'm trying to imagine when I'd feel the need to quote a whole song verbatim, just because the lyrics are poignant. Surely, simply quoting certain lines, and the protagonist's reaction to them, as he/she danced, would be enough? Otherwise it's kind of getting the song's lyricist to articulate what you as an author are wanting to convey.

Yeah, I see why you might think that but it isn't like that at all actually, it's as much of a pacing device for the scene as it is giving flavour to the character's thoughts. I could certainly get away with using just a few lines but I think it reads better with a couple of verses.

Any mods care to comment?

 

[sr71plt]

Any mods care to comment?

A. That's not the mods' job at Literotica. Only the editor, Laurel determines what goes into the story file. B. As I told you, this is an issue that's beyond Literotica. Either you respect someone's copyright or you don't. When you don't as a writer, you are expecting respect for your own intellectual property but not respecting the rights of others. I think you can parse that one out.

 

[Scandilove]

A. That's not the mods' job at Literotica. Only the editor, Laurel determines what goes into the story file. B. As I told you, this is an issue that's beyond Literotica. Either you respect someone's copyright or you don't. When you don't as a writer, you are expecting respect for your own intellectual property but not respecting the rights of others. I think you can parse that one out.

Not sure it's as black and white as that but great that you took the time to respond. I'll see if I can get an answer from Laurel.

S

 

[Hypoxia]

I've include lyrics in a number of my stories. Most are traditional or my own songs. I've referenced copyrighted lyrics but not copied them, as in Substitute Pussy where I modify lyrics of The Who's SUBSTITUTE. I think I'd arouse no ire if copyrighted lyrics are disarticulated. For instance:

"Out in the west Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Texican Girl"

It was a long, dusty ride down the Rio Grande from Socorro. I was glad to find refuge in the smoky border town. I gladly settled into a welcoming lodging house.

"Nighttime would find me in Rosie's Cantina. Music would play and Felina would whirl."

Damn, that bitch was a tease! But I could not keep my eyes off her. Or my hands, almost. I sipped my beer and sweated.

"One night a wild young cowboy came in, wild as the west Texas wind."

I was just another customer, another saddle tramp. I had nothing she wanted. Could I rent her for a night? What good would that do me?

"Dashing and daring, a drink he was sharing with wicked Felina, the girl that I loved."

Seeing her with another man -- my blood boiled! My skin crawled. Another beer wouldn't cool me down, wouldn't calm me. My hands twitched. I would be useless at poker.​

Et fucking cetera. I've used the lyrics, but not totally, and I've told a story beyond the original -- a transformation. Another fair usage might have a modern player hearing a couplet from that or another song with the story flavored but not driven by the lyrics.

I slipped into the smoky tavern. Music played from hidden speakers.

"Dashing and daring, a drink he was sharing with wicked Felina, the girl that I loved."

Fuck, that was just too much like the girl I thought loved me. Might as well try to drown those memories. I waved at the barkeep.​

If I used lyrics that way I would add a following Author's Note giving credit to the writer. I'd probably mention "used without permission" and wait for the lawyers to call. It would likely be a long wait.

 

[Kantarii]

Avoid using anything related to Metallica. Those fuckers are quick to sue over their "shit".
Kant

I've used lyrics from The Rolling Stones,Pink Floyd,Led Zeppelin, and Sundown in my stories.

 

[Hypoxia]

Avoid using anything related to Metallica. Those fuckers are quick to sue over their "shit".

I wouldn't touch Metallica with a ten-foot Slovak.

 

[sr71plt]

If I used lyrics that way I would add a following Author's Note giving credit to the writer. I'd probably mention "used without permission" and wait for the lawyers to call. It would likely be a long wait.

Well, yes, but what is legal, what is ethical, and what you can get away with on the Internet are three different issues.

 

[Hypoxia]

Well, yes, but what is legal, what is ethical, and what you can get away with on the Internet are three different issues.

I'm not sure of the ethical issue here. If I quote a few words, and credit the author, and don't take food from their mouths and cash from their pockets, just what ethical violations did I commit? That's much more generous than the "folk process" of lifting older works (Dylan got a Nobel for that) or writing a formulaic story with new names plugged in. When I quote lyrics, I am not copying other works. I fuse that work into a new synthesis. That's how the creative process works.

 

[sr71plt]

I stated the ethical issue in post #9 and it flabbergasts me that many authors just don't get this. Song lyrics that are copyrighted belong to an artist. Writers are artists too. When writers don't honor the intellectual property rights of a song writer but they expect their ownership of their writing to be upheld, they are being both selfish and two-faced. And not ethical.

 

[i_would]

OP suggests quoting with credits. That's quite different (at least from an ethical pov) than quoting without credits, or simply copying and making it appear your own.

For the legal part, that would also depend on your jurisdiction, or maybe the jurisdiction Literotica falls under if publishing on this site. "Fair use" for example is afaik a mostly US legal concept.

To me, it mostly boils down to ethics. Quote with credits: fine. The same accounts for what I publish here. Copying verbatim, claiming it to be one's own, or even selling it: not OK.

 

[sr71plt]

OP suggests quoting with credits. That's quite different (at least from an ethical pov) than quoting without credits, or simply copying and making it appear your own.

Nope. Giving credit doesn't obviate the legal obligation to obtain written permission. In fact, in court, it hurts because it's proof that you knew where you got it from.