Someone wanna tell me how the murder of children is accepted here?

[AngelRider]

Yet another February Sucks variation on a theme was submitted today to loving wives. You know, the cess pool of angry males.

I have about a half dozen acquaintances that I communicate with on here and a few are well regarded. A couple of them have had their stories unable to be submitted due to themes but yet, a story with child murder by a pissed off betrayed father is permitted. That's a new one.

And don't give me the crap about reporting. It rarely changes anything and this should have never been submitted to begin with. There is NO reason to submit a story about murdering children out of psychosis on an etotic site.

 

[KeithD]

There's only one person who can give you satisfaction on this. Laurel, the sole submissions editor. You can only reach her directly by Private Message. The rest of can do nothing for you, so pissing on us won't get you anywhere.

 

[NotWise]

Yet another February Sucks variation on a theme was submitted today to loving wives. You know, the cess pool of angry males.

I have about a half dozen acquaintances that I communicate with on here and a few are well regarded. A couple of them have had their stories unable to be submitted due to themes but yet, a story with child murder by a pissed off betrayed father is permitted. That's a new one.

And don't give me the crap about reporting. It rarely changes anything and this should have never been submitted to begin with. There is NO reason to submit a story about murdering children out of psychosis on an etotic site.

Killing a child probably doesn't break Lit rules if it isn't in a sexual context.

As KeithD said, you can contact the content editor (Laurel) by PM and complain. You don't want to be given crap about reporting, but that might be an even more direct route than PM.

What violation would you report? An insult to your sensibilities is not a violation of Lit rules.

 

[yukonnights]

I think one also has to remember the "Liter…" part of Literotica. I'm pretty confident that one could find a number of stories published outside of Literotica that include such content, such as stories of war, crime, and similar real life circumstances where innocent people die.

While it's not the direction I would take a story, the reality in the world is that innocent people of all ages are killed every day. IMO, it's poor taste for it to be in a story that is intended to be erotic, and not something I would want to read. But the truth is; I'd need more details to parse out if it was in fact so egregious as to report it to be removed. The OP doesn't provide any details as to the way it was portrayed. Since I haven't read it, and won't — I'll just leave it at that, and to the website owners to decide.

 

[lovecraft68]

Lit should keep in mind that is an erotica site which means-an yes, unfairly-that everything here is associated with erotica. Murdering a child on a site that is 90% smut oriented has a different connotation than it happening in a mainstream novel of any genre.

The word context implies what is around the topic at hand, and the context here is porn, and something like this to me does seem out of line and can be construed as something more than it is.

I think the OP is wrong for saying why bother reporting it, I would and see what the site says because odds are, Laurel doesn't know it was in the story, she barely skims these things and is only looking for specific 'problem words'. If the author of the piece is someone who's established she may not really look at all.

So I'd give her the chance to see if its something she wants on here.

And then there's the irony of it breaking a rule to have a girl say I "sucked his cock when I was .... years old" but sure we can kill kids, and of course rape and torturing of women in BTB stories is always welcome.

 

[SimonDoom]

You can turn on the television any time of day and watch movies and TV shows where people get brutally murdered. I'm not sure why Literotica would be any different, as long as the murder isn't presented as erotic.

 

[lovecraft68]

You can turn on the television any time of day and watch movies and TV shows where people get brutally murdered. I'm not sure why Literotica would be any different, as long as the murder isn't presented as erotic.

To me it depends where its posted. Novels and novellas and Non erotic are categories where anything goes in the sense it doesn't have to be the erotica the site is known for...as someone said the Lit in the title is normally found there.

This was in loving wives a category associated with sex and erotica. There's no link so we can't look at the story, but I'll say that if anywhere in that story there is erotic content then why is there a murder in there because even as separate events they're within the same title...posted as erotica

Remember, erotica is not judged like mainstream fiction. In the mainstream anything that happens, sex, murder, abuse, drugs etc...are all part of a larger picture, they're devices. That's why no one cares about incest in a VC Andrews book, its meant to not be sexy, but also explains the characters situation.

In erotica, whatever the stories main focus is is sexualized and fetishized which is why rape and incest and underaged sex aren't allowed in the selling market and allegedly here.

IMO if you want to write that, write as thou wilt, but there's better platforms for it, or if you want it here, go to the anything goers more 'mainstream like" categories.

Let me ask you this as a serious question. Everything here is a kink, correct? LW is about hotwives, cucks, etc...other category titles are self explanatory, group IR Taboo...

So when did hatred become a kink? There is nothing erotic about BTB stories. They're full of rape, abuse, hatred and anger and the comments are worse. There are stories here of women being drugged and sold into sexual slavery, jailed for life, raped beaten, tortured, and this site (no torture for titillation, yeah fuck you lit) not only allows it but does everything it can to fuel it in a lawless category

If you get sexual pleasure out of a woman being hooked on drugs and forced into a life of prostitution, then you're a sick fuck because there's nothing sexual there or shouldn't be.

And when I make these points I'm met with derision, why? Because you people know I'm right. But for the sake of views and votes on a free site its all worth it. Encouraging mindless hatred of incels is just fine if you get a few comments.

LW proves Lit has no ethics or morals...and they don't have to have any-but they need to stop acting like they do, as do the readers and authors here. I know this society has the mantra that you're not responsible for anything, its always someone else, but own your shit for once and admit where you are, what you're doing and who you play up to.

That's why even though I've written some hotwife material over the last couple of years I'll no longer put it here. I won't give the terminally spineless dickless and gutless the opportunity to post their barely literate hate on my work, they can do that with people with no conviction or care for anyone but themselves

 

[windar]

but I'll say that if anywhere in that story there is erotic content then why is there a murder in there because even as separate events they're within the same title...posted as eroticas

It's difficult to comment on the story the OP is referring to since no link or title is provided. I think it would depend greatly on the context. Is the murder decribed in great detail or is it simply mentioned?
I've read mainstream fiction where there are steamy scenes and grisly crimes not that far apart in the text. Detectives get to have a sex life too...

Certainly, I've read scenes in mainstream books that are quite arousing and I bet you have, too. Yes, the book has goals beyond that (presumably), but some erotica has goals beyond that also-social commentary, portrayal of a certain historical era, etc. The dividing line isn't always a hard wall.

As for "rape and incest and underaged sex aren't allowed in the selling market and allegedly here ." That isn't even allegedly true for here. There is an entire category for incest. For rape, there are no stated rules; there is supposedly an unstated rule that the party being screwed must derive some pleasure from it. If that is indeed the case, that is an idiotic rule, because potraying rape as a fun experience for the victim is arguably worse that protraying it as torture.

Regarding underage, it's true that you can't portray them involved in sex. Supposedly, they can't even be around. But among the first stories I remember reading here was "Babysitting the Baumgartners" by selena_kitt, which involved a college age woman hired to accompany a family on a beach vacation. The kids were major figures in the story. Yes, they were in bed or distracted with video games while the adulkts played, but they were certainly present.

But to come back to the original complaint, a site where 50-100 stories go up every day is going to have inconsistency.

Ultimately, what appears here are stories. I don't think the data supports that somehow they stimulate people to do awful things in real life. From 1990 until last year crime fell consistently at the same time as the internet exploded with porn/erotica from the softest to the hardest. That's a fact. It's up in the last two years but that has to do with dislocations from the pandemic.

 

[KeithD]

I don't murder children in my Literotica stories (or elsewhere, actually) and I doubt I'd continue to read a story here where I encountered that. Beyond that, this isn't my Web site. I don't tell them what they can/should and cannot/should not permit here (especially while at the same time posting extreme-topic stuff here myself). I'm just grateful they are here and include the stuff I submit here (I don't submit everything I write here), minding my own business, and letting them exercise their privileges of ownership. If I find I don't want my stories being associated with other kinks that permitted here, I'll make the decision for myself just not to post stories here.

 

[lovecraft68]

The issue people have is there is a difference between literally can you write something and should you write it. There's no reason to write about murdering a child here. No one here i writing mainstream detective or serial killer stories on this platform, and again if you chose to then pick a non erotic category.

Because you're mixing the murder of a child in an erotic category and possibly mixing it with sex, and doing this in a category that glorifies hate and violence on a daily basis, so whatever the author intent, you're feeding that hate. Do we need to?

Again, there's no link, but my guess going by the nature of the category and its mouth breathing audience is the kid was probably killed for having the audacity to be living with the whore ex wife.

I could be wrong, but that sounds about right. They now kill kids in LW, the cesspool gets worse, and its defenders go the same path.

I'll end this with when writing fiction no topic is illegal, however part of the reason for the alleged rules here is to keep a certain readership away because that readership is often ghosted by law enforcement.

Stories like the one being discussed here is not exactly something you want LE to get a sniff of because right or wrong this is a sex site and its not a good look.

 

[lovecraft68]

Ultimately, what appears here are stories. I don't think the data supports that somehow they stimulate people to do awful things in real life. From 1990 until last year crime fell consistently at the same time as the internet exploded with porn/erotica from the softest to the hardest. That's a fact. It's up in the last two years but that has to do with dislocations from the pandemic.

Not too long ago I'd agree with this.

However, in case you haven't noticed people are out of their fucking minds these days. And whether or not people act on this stuff or just spew about it, we live in a time where hate speech is being cracked down on, yet the LW comments section is full of incel hate speech against women along with a lot of racist and homophobic crap and threats to authors and other readers and of course the 'simp cuck" that isn't the real man they obviously are.

Whether or not its happened yet, it is in the works for Incels to be officially branded as a hate group. Once they are...then Lit has a problem with these comments drawing attention to itself for allowing it, especially now that they screen comments.

End of the day when that happens, Lit is going to have fun trying to say their 'free speech' platform(that hasn't been free speech in some time) covers hate speech and being a haven for a hate group.

Between this and the revenge porn laws being violated here on a daily basis(look up how porn sites are now forcing verification of accounts to post pictures and video content in anticipation of new revenge porn and copyright laws and lit has no concern about this at all) this site could run into serious trouble.

And sad to say it will be their fault because they take nothing seriously.

 

[windar]

lovecraft68: It seems to me that you are not very happy about how the site is run, which makes me wonder why you are here.

I came here because I have a whole bunch of stories that I have written for other sites and thought it might be fun to expose them to a new audience. I have one running in Novellas that is doing OK as far as readership, scores, etc. I've gotten a few comments, most positive, with one negative. I will finish posting that story and I entered a short piece I wrote a couple of years ago in the holiday contest.

But I'm honestly not sure whether I will continue here beyond that. The other free site where I post is extremely friendly, with constant banter and fun. There is none of that here. No welcoming new members. No joking around. It's like the pay site where I also post, but without the money.

So overall, my impression of Literotica is more negative than positive, I'm afraid. And I haven't even read any of the comments you talk about...

 

[MajorRewrite]

I reported the story when it was posted, and I’d bet other readers did too. I don’t remember the title or author so I can’t check to see if it was deleted.

Some of the comments on the story said it was overly dark or simply nuts. Unfortunately the BTB loons commented that they liked it. Those guys “ain’t right”.

I’m in full agreement with Lovecraft about BTB/revenge stories. That stuff is pure lunacy and has no place on an erotic site. (Full disclosure: I have posted a couple of stories in LW but they’re happy sex fiction, not warped revenge fantasies).

 

[SimonDoom]

lovecraft68: It seems to me that you are not very happy about how the site is run, which makes me wonder why you are here.

I came here because I have a whole bunch of stories that I have written for other sites and thought it might be fun to expose them to a new audience. I have one running in Novellas that is doing OK as far as readership, scores, etc. I've gotten a few comments, most positive, with one negative. I will finish posting that story and I entered a short piece I wrote a couple of years ago in the holiday contest.

But I'm honestly not sure whether I will continue here beyond that. The other free site where I post is extremely friendly, with constant banter and fun. There is none of that here. No welcoming new members. No joking around. It's like the pay site where I also post, but without the money.

So overall, my impression of Literotica is more negative than positive, I'm afraid. And I haven't even read any of the comments you talk about...

I would recommend that you be patient and give the place more time. You've already noted that you had more positive feedback than negative feedback for your stories. I can guarantee you that many multiples of the number of readers who gave you positive feedback actually enjoyed your story. I've been here for 5 years and I see new authors who post here for the first time regularly getting welcomed to the site. There are plenty of open-minded and welcoming people here.

There are a few hot button issues that some -- but not all -- authors in this forum get worked up about. I, for one, take an extremely permissive view about what "should" be published at Literotica. My view is if you don't like it, don't read it, but don't complain about someone else writing it. That does NOT mean it isn't perfectly fair to criticize the content of stories -- criticism and censorship aren't the same thing.

There is a tendency among new authors to focus too much on the negative feedback and to let it drown out the (often more plentiful) positive feedback. I did this a little bit when I started, and I've grown a thicker skin since, and I think a thick skin is a good thing for an author to have.

So, my advice: be patient and accentuate the positive. There is plenty of positive out there.

 

[dmallord]

Keep

I would recommend that you be patient and give the place more time. You've already noted that you had more positive feedback than negative feedback for your stories. I can guarantee you that many multiples of the number of readers who gave you positive feedback actually enjoyed your story. I've been here for 5 years and I see new authors who post here for the first time regularly getting welcomed to the site. There are plenty of open-minded and welcoming people here.

There are a few hot button issues that some -- but not all -- authors in this forum get worked up about. I, for one, take an extremely permissive view about what "should" be published at Literotica. My view is if you don't like it, don't read it, but don't complain about someone else writing it. That does NOT mean it isn't perfectly fair to criticize the content of stories -- criticism and censorship aren't the same thing.

There is a tendency among new authors to focus too much on the negative feedback and to let it drown out the (often more plentiful) positive feedback. I did this a little bit when I started, and I've grown a thicker skin since, and I think a thick skin is a good thing for an author to have.

So, my advice: be patient and accentuate the positive. There is plenty of positive out there.

+++++

Thank you, for bringing back the more positive view toward feedback and new writers landing on Lits doorstep. This thread was sending my blood pressure into the 200's over where the thoughts in this one were going.

I move for positive - life has little time left for the negative that started this thread - especially after lambasting it and then saying noting can be done. - So why start the hate it attitude in the first place?

 

[lovecraft68]

lovecraft68: It seems to me that you are not very happy about how the site is run, which makes me wonder why you are here.

I came here because I have a whole bunch of stories that I have written for other sites and thought it might be fun to expose them to a new audience. I have one running in Novellas that is doing OK as far as readership, scores, etc. I've gotten a few comments, most positive, with one negative. I will finish posting that story and I entered a short piece I wrote a couple of years ago in the holiday contest.

But I'm honestly not sure whether I will continue here beyond that. The other free site where I post is extremely friendly, with constant banter and fun. There is none of that here. No welcoming new members. No joking around. It's like the pay site where I also post, but without the money.

So overall, my impression of Literotica is more negative than positive, I'm afraid. And I haven't even read any of the comments you talk about...

I'm not a fan of lies and fake morals. As for why I'm here, at this point more of a distraction and place to hang out with some friends. I don't post many stories these days because I sell them instead, but seeing the site makes money on my-and your and all authors-stories I may as well get something in return.

Most of the stories here, the readers and the authors are fun and its a great platform to learn, get some feedback and have fun. You're on a thread that's discussing something that is far from the norm here and there is no reason to exist here at least in an erotica category, but the site says it has rules, they are not real, they are enforced at whim and they seem to encourage the most despicable portion of their readership.

Because that readership dwells in a category that gets a lot of traffic, it doesn't matter its full of rape for titillations, torture, violence towards women, racism, homophobia and flat out hate speech from both readers and authors.

It also doesn't matter to people who are so obsessed with attention and numbers they pretends there's nothing wrong with a category that appeals to hate spewing incel animals as long as they can get a few hundred votes there so will justify their ass off.

Others of us have something resembling ethics and personal conviction of what should and should not be encouraged...especially on a site which wants you to think they have standards.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Regarding underage, it's true that you can't portray them involved in sex. Supposedly, they can't even be around.

That isn't a site rule, never has been (despite what some posters will claim). There are plenty of romance stories here with single parents who have young children, or stories that begin when the main characters are minors before following them to adulthood. It's fine as long as they're not sexualised as minors.

 

[AngelRider]

Came back to observe how some took my comment

I was completely unsurprised by some of the comments because from my observations, their debate begins and ends with either (paraphrasing) "you are free to not use the site" or "well its not breaking a rule so everything is just fine"

You can figure out who those people are.

Some of you however I am actually pleased that you considered the comment (even if you somewhat disagreed)

As some have pointed out, the LW category is very much a haven for misogyny erotica and hate. As a theme I do not necessarily believe all btb stories are inherently designed to glorify abuse of women for sexual thrill or emotional catharsis. There are some pretty well written stories there that have themes of treacherous adultery and abuse of innocent men. Most of the time though the characters are cartoonist and ridiculous where a previously happy marriage ends because a women becomes a narcissistic sociopath hell bent on destroying her husband. Half the time I sit there wondering what happened to the author to make him hate women.

Lastly, I just wanted to comment on the rape/torture porn/sexual slavery comment and about how "women just need to enjoy it" in order for a story to be allowed.

I know the usual folk will show up to tell me to not read, or it's not my site bla bla bla. Whatever. I just wanted to point out how stupid that concept is. ALL it takes for any of those rape glorification stories to meet the "rule" is to at some point write that the victim orgasmed. It doesn't even have to be believable because let's face it, the people who write that shit couldn't spell verisimilitude let alone define it. How many stories on here portray a woman being violently raped in front of her husband, boyfriend and/or family only to suddenly love it and end up enjoying themselves and shrugging off what occurred. Hell, 99% of the time they end up with the rapist. I am not talking about the physiological response of lubrication or even orgasm during rape. I know it happens but it's never as portrayed because that isn't erotic. If you think it is then I would suggest some introspection as to why because trust me, pleasure is the last thing a victim wants to feel.

I am reminded of a particular well regarded writer who frequents LW and he includes some sort of rape in most of his stories. The women always enjoy it. One in particular vexes me because the notion is preposterous: a woman in a play has an orgasm on stage during a sexual assault because the assailant touched her tits and grinded his knee and dick into her on stage. Not only does she orgasm, she screams infront of her husband and the entire audience. The excuse? She is a sexual woman. It's always his excuse, including being abducted and repeatedly raped by a cartel over a mere few days. Give me a fucking break.

I am off topic but my point is this. There ought to be a difference between what's written and intent. Maybe that is too subjective to be reasonably evaluated. I can actually accept that it's too difficult to properly supervise. We all know that talent and skill varies widely here and some are far more adept at developing a well conceived plot than others. At the same time I do believe in patterns and I do believe that sometimes it is extremely obvious when a story is designed to glorify rape, abuse and torture. The "enjoyment" is a red herring and nothing more.

That is all. BTW, thanks Lovecraft

 

[KeithD]

Umm, OK. I do hope, though, that you got the part about your beef being with the Web site editor and not with the other site users. Maybe if you contacted Laurel directly, she'd be amenable to tailor her Web site just to your likes/demands.

 

[OldBrummie]

Yes, I remember reading this, but unfortunately have not been able to find the story again.
I took it as an attack on the BTB extremists by an author who had probably had enough of their comments that the wife did not suffer enough. You know who they are as they all seem to be very vocal. The story was short and very much "non-erotic". Everyone died. The husband shot the kids and then himself. The wife took an overdose.
Did I enjoy it? NO.
Do I agree with what happened? Definitely not.
What I interpreted it as was an author putting the finger to the BTB extremists and in effect saying "Is this really what you want, because that is what you seem to be working towards and it is ugly and not in the slightest bit entertaining." Reductio ad Absurdum.
I do not think it did any good because those extremists will simply ignore it and it will upset all the more thoughtful readers, just as it has done here. The only way forward I can see is for authors to stop pandering to these people and write stories where people divorce and get on with their lives. Just like they do in real life. Surely there is enough drama in people coming to terms with what is happening to make the story interesting without violence (both physical and emotional), police, drugs, private detectives etc.

 

[46n2]

Murder. Yum.

Gets me horny every time.

 

[nylonpunkie]

Interesting arguments here

Thankfully I haven't come across some of the awful content or comments mentioned here. There was one story that disturbed me and I felt no qualms about reporting it.
But I am wracking my brain trying to imagine what on Earth BTB can stand for.

I don't often search for words and phrases I've found on a porno site but I did for BTB and it has dozens of meanings, none of which seemed relevant.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Thankfully I haven't come across some of the awful content or comments mentioned here. There was one story that disturbed me and I felt no qualms about reporting it.
But I am wracking my brain trying to imagine what on Earth BTB can stand for.

I don't often search for words and phrases I've found on a porno site but I did for BTB and it has dozens of meanings, none of which seemed relevant.

"Burn The Bitch", or occasionally "Bastard". Genre of LW stories devoted to scorched-earth revenge on the ones who done the protagonist wrong.

 

[nylonpunkie]

Thank you Bramblethorn, that is actually worse than I could ever have imagined.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

Yet another February Sucks variation on a theme was submitted today to loving wives. You know, the cess pool of angry males.

I have about a half dozen acquaintances that I communicate with on here and a few are well regarded. A couple of them have had their stories unable to be submitted due to themes but yet, a story with child murder by a pissed off betrayed father is permitted. That's a new one.

And don't give me the crap about reporting. It rarely changes anything and this should have never been submitted to begin with. There is NO reason to submit a story about murdering children out of psychosis on an etotic site.

Not that any sane person would ever justify child murder irl, but it is a real thing in the wild and also in the literary tradition going way back to mythological times (and probably before). Medea murdered her children to revenge herself on her husband Jason (of Argonauts fame) for divorcing her to take on a younger, more politically advantageous wife. It IS a horror.….which is usually the literary point.

i would note, however, that i have not seen the story in question, so I do not know what the point of it was If there was one And i am not justifying it.