Someone please help me out?

[pleasehelp]

Hi
I am a big fan of this site and these boards, and love reading what people write. However, i am a 20/m (almost 21) who is a virgin (by choice, hopefully until marriage). Not by choice, I have a history of not having any women my age interested in me for whatever reason. Some of my friends have cited that im much more mature than most people our age, other cite that it is that i am a kind of quiet, shy guy rather than a crazy wild partier. And others, cynical ones, have argued its because im an old fashioned gentleman who believes in treating women with incredible respect etc. rather than the ordinary guy that most girls my age try to have relationships with, the sex addicted jerk (not that theres anything wrong with sex mind you, but it seems that is all many of them are after). Basically, Ive been told im "the marriage type", not the type people date at our age, whatever that means. So, Ive only kissed one girl and havent even been on a date before

Anyways, I have this friend and I really really like her. She is just so amazing. She used to like me and I liked her but then we went to just being friends for a while because she has a lot of personal issues to deal with and isnt ready for a relationship. I completely understand this, terrible things have happened to her with other guys (I mean really terrible), so she is going through a recovery phase in her life right now. She loves to talk about how sweet I am and how different I am from so many other guys. Often, she usually calls me right before she goes to bed at night, finds excuses to hang out with me, tells me how good looking she thinks i am, has a nickname for me, etc. Also, although she knows i still like her, she keeps flirting with me. When I told her flat out how I feel about her, she told me that shes not looking for anything right now, and I completely understand and think she definately needs some time for herself to deal with her issues.

However, she said that many guys have asked her out already and she has just turned them down without telling them why. She has made it seem that I am the only guy whos interested in her that way who knows about it. After I told her that I understand she needs her space and all and that if theres any way I can help to just let me know, I asked her if she thinks shed ever consider me more than just a friend when she is ready, and she said "all I need is a friend right now, and your a great friend.... as far as the future though, who knows? who can tell about the future at all?" and "I just dont want to think about that stuff right now". So, I dropped it.

Is there any way, without putting any pressure on her or anything so that she can help heal herself and come to terms with the issue in her past, that I can make sure when she is ready id be the first to know?

I really like her and the idea of her being with another guy kills me. I am willing to wait as long as it might take her, regardless of how long that is, but id just like to know if I have any chance at all for when she is ready

When I flat out asked her "so your not saying though that I have no chance in hell though right?" she answered no. Is there some way I can be supportive without falling only within the "friend zone"?

The other thing too though is she loves sex. She also knows I am a virgin and plan to stay one. Does this complicate things any more?

So what can/should I do besides be a supportive friend?

Thank you so much for anyone who answers this

 

[LadyJeanne]

Start seeing someone else. She's not ready now, and you don't know when she will be able to heal and be ready. Why miss out on some wonderful woman who is ready now just to wait for someone who may or may not ever be ready for YOU?

 

[pleasehelp]

I know, but I just care about her so much... probably since we have been good friends on top of everything is why I do.
But, like I said, I have NO experience with women basically, so I sorta feel like even if I do wait forever and nothing comes of it, im not sure what difference it will be since I just dont know how to date in general... I mean sometimes its so bad I see myself as undateable, so I am not even sure if there are any women out there.... I guess im just saying, I really like her so much... I dont want to take any chance that might pass up on being with her, especially for women I have yet to see actually exist

I know it might not be that logical, but it just is really how I feel

 

[Gypsy_Lis]

I agree with Lady Jeanne. There are so many wonderful women out there. Why wait? Sometimes women with past issues may take a long time to heal.

 

[LadyJeanne]

I know, but I just care about her so much... probably since we have been good friends on top of everything is why I do.
But, like I said, I have NO experience with women basically, so I sorta feel like even if I do wait forever and nothing comes of it, im not sure what difference it will be since I just dont know how to date in general... I mean sometimes its so bad I see myself as undateable, so I am not even sure if there are any women out there.... I guess im just saying, I really like her so much... I dont want to take any chance that might pass up on being with her, especially for women I have yet to see actually exist

I know it might not be that logical, but it just is really how I feel

Well, if you never try to date anyone, yes, you are undateable. If she's the only person you hang out with, you are undateable.

Seeing other people doesn't mean that you are passing up a chance to be with her. YOu actually don't have a chance to be with her at this point. She's told you she doesn't want to date you now, so she can't expect you to hang around not dating anyone else on the chance she might be available later.

And being so hung up on her, may make you overlook those shy, quiet girls who would like you.

 

[pleasehelp]

Thats a good point... I just dont want her to see me dating around, but still be single by the time she is ready but she doesnt think im interested in her anymore, or with someone im not as interested in by the time she does realize shes ready

And as far as my dating past, Ive had problems before I even met her with women my age... they almost always seem to just see me as a friend, or see me as nothing at all... I just dont get why and whats wrong with me... as far as i can tell, I cant see anything but apparently they do
I just dont understand women my age... I understand older women much more, since they actually make sense unlike most 20 yearolds, but Im just more interested in girls my age

 

[Vixandra]

Sounds like she's using as an "everything but a boyfriend" type capacity.
Last call of the day, hanging out together, etc. That's what it strikes me as.
And its really not fair.

And the sweetie guys can come out first- I met/became friends with a very geeky sweetheart of a guy back in HS. We've now been married for 4 years and he's still that sweethearted geeky guy I met and fell for.

There are girls out there looking for a sweetheart instead of an asshole. They're as hard to find as thier opposites (guys seeking real girls, not just an easy lay). Perseverance, that's the ticket.

 

[pleasehelp]

really?
cause I know its kinda what everyone might claim they want regardless of what they really want, but I want to end up with someone I can connect to, someone I can spend lots of time with and talk about EVERYTHING... someone really smart, because I too, like your husband, am a geeky guy. For example, I am a history major, but for fun while other people are off partying, im usually here on a friday night reading Gibbon's Decline and Fall of Rome, Smith's Wealth of Nations, or the Federalist papers... I guess thats probably part of my problem is that I love sorta more sophisticated stuff like art, classical music and jazz, and discussing history, politics, philosophy, economics etc.... not that I dont enjoy fun from time to time but I am a lot nerdier than most I suppose... Its hard to find people who actually appreciate it

I am glad to hear about your husband though... guys like him give guys like me hope


what do you mean "everything but a boyfriend"? that shes basically treating me like her boyfriend minus the title, the cuddling, making out, etc.?

 

[Gypsy_Lis]

really?
cause I know its kinda what everyone might claim they want regardless of what they really want, but I want to end up with someone I can connect to, someone I can spend lots of time with and talk about EVERYTHING... someone really smart, because I too, like your husband, am a geeky guy. For example, I am a history major, but for fun while other people are off partying, im usually here on a friday night reading Gibbon's Decline and Fall of Rome, Smith's Wealth of Nations, or the Federalist papers... I guess thats probably part of my problem is that I love sorta more sophisticated stuff like art, classical music and jazz, and discussing history, politics, philosophy, economics etc.... not that I dont enjoy fun from time to time but I am a lot nerdier than most I suppose... Its hard to find people who actually appreciate it

I am glad to hear about your husband though... guys like him give guys like me hope


what do you mean "everything but a boyfriend"? that shes basically treating me like her boyfriend minus the title, the cuddling, making out, etc.?

I've always thought nerds are sexy!! Even today, they are still hot to me.

"Everything but a boyfriend" means open relationship, perhaps? The right to date others? That is not fair to me.

Hey...give yourself a break. Just be yourself. There are women out there like those kinds like you. Trust me.

 

[HazyDavy]

I've been through this and it plays out like this I'm afraid... it isn't going to happen. Not nice to hear I know and you'll find a thousand reasons in your mind why there is evidence to the contrary- things she has said and done- but it isn't going to happen. If she wanted to be with you then she would be right now, no matter what she says about needing space at the moment etc. That line was laid on me and she was with someone else quite quickly afterwards.

The trick is not to take it personally. She does care about you- just not like that- and has been nice enough not to shoot you down in flames. But you need to beware because there is a problem ahead: sooner or later she will start seeing someone else and things will become uncomfortable between you. She won't know how to tell you so might try and hide it. If it hasn't happened already then the late night calls will stop and a distance will grow between you that you won't be able to understand. I'm talking from experience here my friend, and it isn't nice to say, but your mental state in a few months will be a lot healthier for realising it now. Trust me- my situation was virtually indentical and it is the hardest thing I've experienced. Cared about her more than I realised was possible but I got much the same response and now there is hardly anything left of our friendship- she hasn't even been able to confide in me that she is seeing someone else (although I know she is) and we don't talk at all anymore. That is not how I want it at all- her friendship is/was enormously important to me- but I've come to accept it after much hurt.The best thing you can do is work on your friendship. Be there when she needs a friend but don't count on anything more.

I could be wrong of course but I don't think so.

 

[pleasehelp]

No, I dont know she definately needs space in general... shes trying to cope with a past rape
and she definately doesnt want to deal with guys... she keeps telling me how she goes to gay clubs and stuff so she wont have to deal with straight guys if she wants to go dance

 

[pleasehelp]

I've always thought nerds are sexy!! Even today, they are still hot to me.

"Everything but a boyfriend" means open relationship, perhaps? The right to date others? That is not fair to me.

Im confused, whats the point in an open relationship? shouldnt you just have no relationship at that point then?

 

[Gypsy_Lis]

Im confused, whats the point in an open relationship? shouldnt you just have no relationship at that point then?

I was in a relationship like you once. Thinking that the relationship would grow but it never did. We never cuddled or anything like that as girlfriend and boyfriend. He bled my heart dry and played with my emotions. He was never ready to have sex with me and I was. Maybe he was not ready to have sex with me and didn't know how to tell me that he simply didn't want to have sex with me. Long after the end of that relationship, I learned from his sister that he was having sex with others. That doesn't mean that your friend is doing that. It was just my opinion and experience. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[HazyDavy]

No, I dont know she definately needs space in general... shes trying to cope with a past rape
and she definately doesnt want to deal with guys... she keeps telling me how she goes to gay clubs and stuff so she wont have to deal with straight guys if she wants to go dance

I'm sorry to hear that and I'm not saying that she doesn't have serious issues to deal with but this really is textbook: whether she is dealing with rape or something else, she would be with you now if she wanted you as more than a friend. I'm no expert admittedly but girls are like that. "Everything but a boyfriend" means she wants a friend, someone to lean on while she is having problems, but make no mistake that the initimate chats etc will cease when she finds a boyfriend and starts to tell him about it all instead.

I really am trying to offer you some advice here and I take no pleasure in saying this. I hope I'm wrong but I'd be surprised.

 

[pleasehelp]

i really dont think she is, especially since she talks about that sexual kinda stuff with me, i figure shed probably tell me...it just hurts that I finally meet someone I really like who at least likes me as a friend , and I have no problem waiting and seeing what happens but it just keeps seeming more and more like my usual problem where for whatever reason women my age just dont like me.. Ive almost gotten to the point, since if this goes as bad as some of you are predicting, I am just going to give up on dating completely forever because its just too aggrevating

 

[pleasehelp]

I'm sorry to hear that and I'm not saying that she doesn't have serious issues to deal with but this really is textbook: whether she is dealing with rape or something else, she would be with you now if she wanted you as more than a friend. I'm no expert admittedly but girls are like that. "Everything but a boyfriend" means she wants a friend, someone to lean on while she is having problems, but make no mistake that the initimate chats etc will cease when she finds a boyfriend and starts to tell him about it all instead.

I really am trying to offer you some advice here and I take no pleasure in saying this. I hope I'm wrong but I'd be surprised.

yeah I imagine your right, but why wouldnt she just throw the notion out completely then if thats true? instead she seems unclear about it and says shes generally not interested in guys right now... she also said shes turned down a bunch of other guys recently

I dont think shed lie to me, especially since she finds it hard to trust people and weve both worked hard to having a trusting relationship

Im just so confused... are women always this confusing? IT just seems like whenever I like someone its always the same way where I have no idea whats going on, but its the same end result regardless

 

[Gypsy_Lis]

yeah I imagine your right, but why wouldnt she just throw the notion out completely then if thats true? instead she seems unclear about it and says shes generally not interested in guys right now... she also said shes turned down a bunch of other guys recently

I dont think shed lie to me, especially since she finds it hard to trust people and weve both worked hard to having a trusting relationship

Im just so confused... are women always this confusing? IT just seems like whenever I like someone its always the same way where I have no idea whats going on, but its the same end result regardless

Yes, women can be confusing and they don't always talk about many things because they don't know how to talk about them or uncertain if they should open up. Women take forever to trust anyone even on an intimate level. Don't give up on dating forever though. You seem to be a great guy. I wish I could be of a help here.

 

[HazyDavy]

My friend did the same- talked about how she tried to commit suicide when she was younger, how a previous boyfriend had hit her, about sex with this guy, how she had almost given up hope with men, how I was her hero... As I say, I know this is enormously difficult to hear because I've been there and I would never have foreseen what has happened in the last six months: virtual loss of contact and even a refusal to accept a birthday present from me! And I really thought our friendship was strong- look at the things she trusted me with! And, yep, I got the 1am text messages etc too... and now I get nothing at all

And I feel like you about this girl- think about her each and every day, would do anything for her, would wait forever and a day... But six months or so down the line, I have had to accept that it is something that I can't explain and a situation I will always regret.

As for giving up hope, I'll leave others to tell you that wouldn't be a good idea. But you need to move on and accept your current situation for what it is otherwise it will just eat you up inside- I know

 

[pleasehelp]

Well shes told me in general, even before I flat out told her how i felt that shes not ready for a relationship.... That she needs to work on herself before she can even think about caring for another person in that way... the terrible thing did happen to her only a few months ago and then happened again by a different guy a couple months after that
so I completely understand that she needs space
shes also been actively going to counseling about it, her parents are always worried about her because of it, and she has been on and off attending a support group for survivors of the deed.

does that info make it any more plausiable that she just needs space right now and might still someday be into me? I mean she did used to like me and that was before we always hung out... I also noticed lately shes trying to make herself look the best she can when she knows shes coming over or like last night, I immed her and told her i was going to bed and wrote" awww come on, please stay up with me?"

Im just so confused Evetryday it just seems more and more like all women are to me is pain and more pain

 

[HazyDavy]

I know you're trying to convince yourself you have a chance because of things she says and does- a stage I highlighted in my previous post- but I would say you are deluding yourself. My friend said she didn't want a relationship with anyone and then jumped into bed with someone she barely knew a few weeks later and she still sees him six months later. Kills me inside but I don't feel bad about it anymore: I'm just really glad that she is happy and hope she has someone who will give her everything she needs and wants. More disappointed our friendship suffered and i would strongly advise you to ensure that doesn't happen if you can at all prevent it.

No two girls are the same and I wouldn't like to say your relationship will follow the same pattern as mine did but it doesn't look promising in my opinion. As I say, pretty textbook.

 

[pleasehelp]

how do i make sure our friendship isnt screwed up? god i wish i never let her know how i felt... i loved before i just like her so much and want more, but before... it was so good

 

[HazyDavy]

Well, I'm not the person to ask- I didn't make a good job of it clearly! But if I was to offer any advice then it would be to not put any pressure on her whatsoever- that will be anything SHE will constitute putting pressure on her even if you aren't doing it with anything but good intentions in mind. Maintain a distance- let her initiate ALL contact and let her make suggestions about if and when you meet up as friends. Don't act differently when you do have contact but you must let her take the lead with the friendship now or, like me, you might just screw it up (and be left scratching your head about how and why!).

 

[gianova]

Dear Please Help

If you feel that you really love this girl don't give up on her.
From personal experience, (being a girl myself) many females are moody by nature. It doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. The very fact (in my opinion) that she's confiding in you in her time of need, and fixing herself up to look pretty around you,...shows her interest and trust in you. This is key.
These issues that she's coping with right now take time, everyone is different when it comes to healing. The important part is that she trusts you enough to lean on you...and that you don't break her trust by pressuring her. Just be there for her. If time is an issue for you, then move on...otherwise make yourself available to her without pressuring her for a relationship.

Another important issue that you mentioned which might be the problem in your advancing a relationship with your girl is...that she loves sex and you are a virgin. It could very well be that she feels like the more experienced one/or the agressor with you...in other words, she understands your values and respects them (keeping your virginity until marriage)...and she doesn't want to spoil you. If you have your heart set on waiting until marriage for sex, your relationship with this girl/woman probably will not advance further than friendship. You might want to rethink the "sex only after marriage" part of it if you want to be with her. It seems to me, that she's holding back for fear that she will hurt you because of the sex issue.

Just be there for her, if you love her. Follow your heart. Girls are actually very easy to understand if you don't overthink the issues.

Here's my opinion on how to get a girl

1)Pay attention to what she says and remember it for future reference.
2)Don't obsess over her. You can glance at other girls (good idea if you do) but don't stare at them...and nonchalantly look back at your girl and look her soulfully in the eyes and smile sincerely.
3)If your girl is going through problems or issues...don't bring up your own problems. AND don't pressure her to change...NO"are we ever gonna be more than friends?" talk. ALSO don't focus your conversation on YOUR problems...try to keep it light hearted. Give her time to talk. Sometimes periods of total silence are comforting to a troubled female...don't talk, WAIT for her to start the conversation.
4)Compliment her without being TOOOO obsessed over her. An example of a good compliment would be, "I like what you've done with your hair it looks nice." A bad compliment for a hard to get girl,"Wow! You look really sexy with your hair up like that!". The key is be brief and not too personal...and don't compliment her on something that isn't new or different unless its sincere. For instance, if she never does anything different with her appearance but you sincerely like particular aspects about her...its okay to compliment her about those things in those awkward quiet moments of no conversation...like"you know, you have a really pretty smile". That's a sweet compliment.
5)Surprise her with something she likes that isn't cheesy romantic (unless that's what she likes). A good example, (if she likes coffee)...go get some starbucks coffee for BOTH of you and some donuts (or whatever she likes) when she's coming over...or when you go over to see her.
6)cook for her
7)invite her to an event you know she'd enjoy...and say something like "hey I got tickets to [whatever it is] and thought you might like to come". Make it a "no pressure" situation.
8)if all else fails, and you still want this girl...get another girl. Sometimes, jealousy works wonders.

Whatever the case may be, I hope all turns out well for you. I feel you have a good chance at making your friendship into a deeper relationship. Who knows what life holds? Good luck

Gia

 

[pleasehelp]

Here's my opinion on how to get a girl

1)Pay attention to what she says and remember it for future reference.
2)Don't obsess over her. You can glance at other girls (good idea if you do) but don't stare at them...and nonchalantly look back at your girl and look her soulfully in the eyes and smile sincerely.
3)If your girl is going through problems or issues...don't bring up your own problems. AND don't pressure her to change...NO"are we ever gonna be more than friends?" talk. ALSO don't focus your conversation on YOUR problems...try to keep it light hearted. Give her time to talk. Sometimes periods of total silence are comforting to a troubled female...don't talk, WAIT for her to start the conversation.
4)Compliment her without being TOOOO obsessed over her. An example of a good compliment would be, "I like what you've done with your hair it looks nice." A bad compliment for a hard to get girl,"Wow! You look really sexy with your hair up like that!". The key is be brief and not too personal...and don't compliment her on something that isn't new or different unless its sincere. For instance, if she never does anything different with her appearance but you sincerely like particular aspects about her...its okay to compliment her about those things in those awkward quiet moments of no conversation...like"you know, you have a really pretty smile". That's a sweet compliment.
5)Surprise her with something she likes that isn't cheesy romantic (unless that's what she likes). A good example, (if she likes coffee)...go get some starbucks coffee for BOTH of you and some donuts (or whatever she likes) when she's coming over...or when you go over to see her.
6)cook for her
7)invite her to an event you know she'd enjoy...and say something like "hey I got tickets to [whatever it is] and thought you might like to come". Make it a "no pressure" situation.
8)if all else fails, and you still want this girl...get another girl. Sometimes, jealousy works wonders.

Whatever the case may be, I hope all turns out well for you. I feel you have a good chance at making your friendship into a deeper relationship. Who knows what life holds? Good luck

Gia

Thanks Gia
I dont get it though... other than number 6, I do all of that stuff and still dont get attention paid to me.... I mean i know i might not be the best looking guy in the world (not that im ugly mind you) but I thought there was more important things than just that....

Ive just been so discouraged by all this stuff over the past few years... luckily i think my friendship with her will be fine, and now that ive thought about it, perhaps better now that ive laid it out there and there will be less pressure on her since we are both on the same page now.... and she didnt outright reject me, maybe if we keep being good friends, someday who knows? i mean thats what she told me even

anyways, its all very discouraging in general though... is there an age where I should just realize it never works for me and just give up trying for good? and why is it so many women my age seem to claim they want a sweet smart sensitive guy who will listen to them and pay attention to them but instead go after jerks who arent really interested in them at all, are taken advantage of by these assholes who crush their feelings, they call all guys jerks and are depressed that there "are no good guys out there", ignore the good guy again and just goes out with a jerk again.... maybe thats an overgeneralization, but ive seen it happen so many times to not just me but friends of mine.. why is this? does it ever end? do we ever win? why are they always going after jerks?

 

[incubus'_sub]

Sorry Gianova, but I'm with Davy on this one. If please help follows his heart on this one, it's going to be broken, big time!

He's only 20, so I'm assuming that this girl is about the same age & already has a "tragic" past & multiple issues. So "tragic" & disturbing in fact that she has already repeated the same mistake she made the first time & within a matter of months.

Just about every girl of that age has a nerdy, needy boy hanging around hoping & picking up the endless pieces, listening to the tales of woe & convincing themselves that by being there they will end up being "the one". It won't happen, as Davy has pointed out so well.

Unfortunately, there's really nothing we can do as please help will continue to convince himself, despite all evidence to the contrary, that all the signs of love are there.