Some people...

[lovecraft68]

Last weekend I received an e-mail from a lit author-no one from here-who asked me if I could help them with a story. What they have is a novel length femme fatale style piece, but what they don't have are any fight sequences. They can write plot, they can write the erotic scenes, dialogue etc, but according to them they can't write a fight scene to save their life, and they need four, so they are writing this story and skipping those scenes and are just about done.

Would I be willing to write the fight scenes?

My first reply was is this a commission and they're offering to pay me for the work?

Answer was no, they really couldn't afford anything.

Okay, fine. I'm not some kind of mercenary, so my next reply was I'd consider it but if I do it I want to be credited in an author's note.

They came back with they didn't want people to know anyone helped with this, they were hoping I would 'ghost write'

I may not be a mercenary, but I'm not into spending any of my limited time for not even an acknowledgement, so although turned off, I sent back another reply that I either wanted payment of credit, but I'm not doing it to just make them look like they can write something they can't.

They said they'd get back to me and then it got even better when a former lit author I remained friendly with reached out to ask me if I'd heard from this person because they'd been helping them beta read and had recommened me to them to ask about the action scenes. I said yes and explained the situation which was when they dropped the bomb on me that the person was lying to me about it being for lit, they were planning on putting this on SW and Amazon and where else they could and hoping to make some money on it.

Since that revelation the person beta reading told them they'd no longer help them because they'd lied to me, and I shot them an e-mail telling them to forget it and they then sent me a nasty gram calling me a slew of crappy names they could find better than me on fiverr.

I resisted the urge to tell them people on Fiverr charge and often more than the "five" that the site is named for, but fuck it.

The nerve of people is still capable of surprising me.

Just a head's up that if anyone-unless its someone you know well-asks you for something, just make sure you know the exact score so to speak.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Sadly, this doesn't surprise me at all. It's the way people behave over the internet because they can get away with it.

I had some bad experiences myself, mostly in gaming, long ago. I've also known some real-life people who acted like assholes when in-game and when I asked them why, they replied that it's because it's just the internet and it doesn't matter at all, and they are a completely different person in real life.
Yeah, that's the part I've never believed to be true. I've always thought that the anonymity and zero consequences of our actions over the internet lets a person show their true selves. If you are an asshole online, you are an asshole, period.

 

[MelissaBaby]

The internet doesn't make people different, it makes them more themselves.

 

[ChloeTzang]

That's really on the nose and rather duplicitous of them. Did they really think they could lie about it and get away with it. Honestly, you do stuff like this and it WILL come out.

Seriously, sounds like pure laziness to me. Anyone can write fight scenes if they want to. It's not hard. When I first started I copied and few and rewrote them and rewrote them just to get a feel for it. I even choreographed a couple of fights with the guy that runs the Taekwondo school I train at, and for shooting, I went thru them with my husband, whose ex-USMC and has been in a few....

I think I would have been a bit ruder than you. And thx for the headsup - I don't think many of us have the time to write for someone else anyhow. LOL. Don't know bout you, but I have a huge backlog.

 

[lovecraft68]

That's really on the nose and rather duplicitous of them. Did they really think they could lie about it and get away with it. Honestly, you do stuff like this and it WILL come out.

Seriously, sounds like pure laziness to me. Anyone can write fight scenes if they want to. It's not hard. When I first started I copied and few and rewrote them and rewrote them just to get a feel for it. I even choreographed a couple of fights with the guy that runs the Taekwondo school I train at, and for shooting, I went thru them with my husband, whose ex-USMC and has been in a few....

I think I would have been a bit ruder than you. And thx for the headsup - I don't think many of us have the time to write for someone else anyhow. LOL. Don't know bout you, but I have a huge backlog.

Fight scenes aren't all that different from sex scenes in some ways, especially if you can write rough 'hate fuck' type of sex scenes. But I've been involved in self-defense since I turned fourteen so I have technical experience, as well as growing up in street and bar fights where what you learn in the Dojo is not easily applied.

Its like anything else, just give it a go and fake it until you make it. I think they were just looking to get it done quickly and didn't want to futz around. That and seeing they wrote around the scenes, to where they would have to feature the character getting specific injuries and other references back to the scenes they had to be airtight (not gangbang airtight though...heh.) The first was a home invasion which was interesting because I have one penned for a WIP and at one point thought of showing it to them and telling them to do what you said and rewrite it in their words.

Glad I didn't, it would have showed up in their damn book.

 

[StillStunned]

"I want to be a writer, but I don't want to do the work."

 

[TheLobster]

What they have is a novel length femme fatale style piece, but what they don't have are any fight sequences. They can write plot, they can write the erotic scenes, dialogue etc,

I wonder how many of those parts have been written not by the schmuck in question and instead by other Lit writers who were kind/gullible enough to lend him their skills.

Good on you for valuing your time appropriately.

 

[MelissaBaby]

When I wrote a story that took place primarily during a train trip from Philadelphia to Chicago in 1945, I searched the internet until I found a contemporary timetable and schedule of stops. I found pictures of the old stations so that I could describe them accurately. I researched how they set up the sleeping cars. I checked if it would be historically accurate for a character to have a ball point pen.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who can't bother to watch one damn Bruce Willis or Liam Neeson movie and take a few notes.

 

[SimonDoom]

That's pretty ballsy. Even Donald Trump let his ghost writer for Art of the Deal put his name on the front cover.

 

[ChloeTzang]

"I want to be a writer, but I don't want to do the work."

THAT sums it up nicely.

 

[ChloeTzang]

When I wrote a story that took place primarily during a train trip from Philadelphia to Chicago in 1945, I searched the internet until I found a contemporary timetable and schedule of stops. I found pictures of the old stations so that I could describe them accurately. I researched how they set up the sleeping cars. I checked if it would be historically accurate for a character to have a ball point pen.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who can't bother to watch one damn Bruce Willis or Liam Neeson movie and take a few notes.

Yeah, no sympathy here either. I did that sort of research with all my 1930's Shanghai stuff. Read books, watched movies, searched for old images. Looked up fashion stuff, car makes and models, maps with all the roads and major buildings, nightclubs, you name it. Even knives..... and with some of the old historical stuff. I spend an entire day researching Mongolian war bows just for one paragraph in a story.

Strikes me someone is just lazy and in it for a quick buck. The sort of crap that drags self-publishing down.

 

[Naughtylit81]

"I want to be a writer, but I don't want to do the work."

And if that isn't the root behind AI "art" I don't know what is.

 

[SimonDoom]

"I want to be a writer, but I don't want to do the work."

It reminds me of the scene in the famous Seinfeld episode, "Marine Biologist," where George complains to Jerry, "Why did you have to tell her I was a marine biologist? I always wanted to pretend I was an architect!"

 

[Comshaw]

Sadly, this doesn't surprise me at all. It's the way people behave over the internet because they can get away with it.

I had some bad experiences myself, mostly in gaming, long ago. I've also known some real-life people who acted like assholes when in-game and when I asked them why, they replied that it's because it's just the internet and it doesn't matter at all, and they are a completely different person in real life.
Yeah, that's the part I've never believed to be true. I've always thought that the anonymity and zero consequences of our actions over the internet lets a person show their true selves. If you are an asshole online, you are an asshole, period.

I've met people like that and I don't agree with their opinion nor understand it. I think those who are Aholes here on the net would be so in the real world if they could with little or no repercussions. They would love to be Aholes in real life, but don't have the courage to do so. There are way too many people who come out onto the net, play at being Aholes and go back to RL to snicker about it.

This isn't a new thing that was conceived by the inter webs. There have always been those around who want to use others for their own benefit and screw how it hurts those who helped them. The anonymity found here on the net has allowed those who are this way in secret to be this way without being called on it in any meaningful way.

I think Mike Tyson said it best: "Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it."

While I can't agree with Mike on the physical retribution he proposed, I agree with the concept that social media and the 'net in general have made people way to comfortable with disrespecting others from behind an anonymous screen name. All you have to do is trundle on over to the PB and read a few of the posts. It's the quintessential snake pit of an example.

So it's no surprise to me that someone would try to take advantage of the skill of another to enhance their own pocketbook. It's the same concept as those who copy a story and post it on another website as their own. Even if no one ever knew I did something like that I'd know and feel embarrassed.

"The character of a person can be told by what they do when no one is looking or they can't be seen."

Me thinks I've rattled on enough. TA ya'll

Comshaw

 

[StillStunned]

"The character of a person can be told by what they do when no one is looking or they can't be seen."

I've heard this as "Character is what you are in the dark". I think it extends equally to "what you are online".

 

[Rob_Royale]

The weird thing to me is, what about a fight scene is so difficult to write? In reality, a fight is over in twenty seconds or less. Especially if someone has any sort of training. Only Hollywood turns every fight into a John Wick battle royale.
Surely that would be easier to write than a sex scene?

But I've dealt with people like that for years. Back when my artistic release was building models cars for contests, I had real life friends and family asking me to build something for them, whether it was their Mustang or their favorite stock car drivers Daytona winner. They all seemed to think that because I enjoyed building models, it really shouldn't matter what model it was or who it was for. Never mind the shelf full of models and ideas that were waiting for my very limited free time. The look on their face when I quoted them an estimate based on my current salary and the time I estimated the model to consume, was priceless. Which could be $1,000 or more.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

"I want to be a writer, but I don't want to do the work."

Really, sometimes me too. Oh wait. That was sarcasm.

 

[TheLobster]

I've heard this as "Character is what you are in the dark". I think it extends equally to "what you are online".

A phenomenon also known as:

 

[AwkwardlySet]

A phenomenon also known as:

View attachment 2440496

As much as I agree with it, I think that's a slightly different aspect of this phenomenon. There are certainly plenty of people who act in such a way, especially on social networks, but such behavior is likely prompted by the "likes" and the praise they expect from the audience. There is an obvious incentive to act like that in order to feel like a part of some group. I call it "jumping on the bandwagon." Such behavior is omnipresent in political debates on social networks.

LC's example, and the one I mentioned, are different because there was no audience at all but just a situation where you can behave any way you want without consequences, and then you choose to behave like an asshole because deep down, that's who you are. If you could get away with it, you would be doing it in real life too.

What I wanted to say is that while both are sad examples of human behavior, they are somewhat different.

 

[yowser]

In reality, a fight is over in twenty seconds or less.

Sounds like teenager sex.

 

[Comshaw]

The weird thing to me is, what about a fight scene is so difficult to write? In reality, a fight is over in twenty seconds or less. Especially if someone has any sort of training. Only Hollywood turns every fight into a John Wick battle royale.
Surely that would be easier to write than a sex scene?

But I've dealt with people like that for years. Back when my artistic release was building models cars for contests, I had real life friends and family asking me to build something for them, whether it was their Mustang or their favorite stock car drivers Daytona winner. They all seemed to think that because I enjoyed building models, it really shouldn't matter what model it was or who it was for. Never mind the shelf full of models and ideas that were waiting for my very limited free time. The look on their face when I quoted them an estimate based on my current salary and the time I estimated the model to consume, was priceless. Which could be $1,000 or more.

A fight between a trained and untrained fighter, or two fighters of disparate abilities will be over in a minute or less. But if they are roughly matched in skill and/or stamina it could take longer. I read a story about Bruce Lee being challenged by a martial arts master. I can't remember which one it was. I think Kung Fu. Anyway they fought and it went on for 3 minutes before it was called a draw. That's a long time for a full on fight to go.

I also saw a fight while I was in the Army between two guys who had no martial training at all. They were both just sluggers. It went on for at least ten minutes. There was a lot of knockdowns, blood and a couple of broken hands before it was done.


Comshaw

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I said yes and explained the situation which was when they dropped the bomb on me that the person was lying to me about it being for lit, they were planning on putting this on SW and Amazon and where else they could and hoping to make some money on it.

You're being far too nice, LC. That goes beyond normal internet assholery. That is fraud. If someone had copied your story from here to sell as their own elsewhere, you would out the name. No reason not to do it here. I mean, it's up to you, but if it were me, I would tell everyone who this no good dirty con-man motherfucker is and report him to the Admin.

Think about it. If he copy/stole someone's work, it could get shut down. If he cons you into writing it for him, it's his, straight up. You'll never get it back.

 

[lovecraft68]

You're being far too nice, LC. That goes beyond normal internet assholery. That is fraud. If someone had copied your story from here to sell as their own elsewhere, you would out the name. No reason not to do it here. I mean, it's up to you, but if it were me, I would tell everyone who this no good dirty con-man motherfucker is and report him to the Admin.

Think about it. If he copy/stole someone's work, it could get shut down. If he cons you into writing it for him, it's his, straight up. You'll never get it back.

There's no work to copy paste. There's nothing here of mine that would fit his exact needs, and I was clued in before I did anything, and TBH even without that revelation I wasn't doing it for no pay or credit anyway. I suppose they weren't too bright in the end by refusing anything and turning me off before the other shoe dropped.

As far as the site doing anything about it? They'd say it wasn't anything published here, and even if it was? We had a plagiarism of someone copy and pasting from another's work and nothing was done. There's been far worse behavior here over the years that no one seems to care much about for me to waste time trying to cancel someone here. Point of my post is be careful of anyone asking anything of you here unless you already have a good relationship with that person.

 

[lovecraft68]

The weird thing to me is, what about a fight scene is so difficult to write? In reality, a fight is over in twenty seconds or less. Especially if someone has any sort of training. Only Hollywood turns every fight into a John Wick battle royale.
Surely that would be easier to write than a sex scene?

But I've dealt with people like that for years. Back when my artistic release was building models cars for contests, I had real life friends and family asking me to build something for them, whether it was their Mustang or their favorite stock car drivers Daytona winner. They all seemed to think that because I enjoyed building models, it really shouldn't matter what model it was or who it was for. Never mind the shelf full of models and ideas that were waiting for my very limited free time. The look on their face when I quoted them an estimate based on my current salary and the time I estimated the model to consume, was priceless. Which could be $1,000 or more.

I'm well aware of how unrealistic most fight scenes in books and movies are, and I've done some "one timer' style scenes to demonstrate the skills of a character to build up to what ultimately has to be an extended 'payoff' scene.

Whenever I'm on this topic I get a kick out of the cold insecure males who run around in comment sections on movie clips squealing "no woman could ever do that" but they have no trouble with a Jason Stratham scene where he beats up six guys who are nice enough to only attack one at a time, and never just pull a gun and shoot him, or just pile on him like they do in real bar or street fights and beat the shit out of him.

But hey, we also write every guy being able to last more than a few minutes, and I'm sure that comment will piss of some 'real men' out there

 

[TheWritingGroup]

But hey, we also write every guy being able to last more than a few minutes, and I'm sure that comment will piss of some 'real men' out there

It's a digression, but I wrote a story ("Wager") about a woman who deliberately isn't a Literotica Heroine. Maureen is unattractive, out of shape, and not promiscuous. She doesn't come from penis-in-vagina only (like 90% or more of real women), she isn't multi-orgasmic, and if she tries to fuck for more than 15 minutes or so at a time, she needs a rest.

She still enjoys sex and she's still a cool person who is loved.

-Annie