Sociopaths

[ultramarineblue]

Do you think that people who are sociopaths realize they are?

 

[DVS]

Do you think that people who are sociopaths realize they are?

I don't think so. But, if they do, they don't care.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I don't think so. But, if they do, they don't care.

True enough. I wonder if there are people that are part time sociopaths. Most of the time they care but at other times they don't. Not possible but I'm sure there is a disorder for it.

 

[Shadowann2]

I know a sociopath, and even though he's been told he is one, he doesn't believe it. He doesn't think there is anything wrong with him. He thinks everyone else is wrong.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I know a sociopath, and even though he's been told he is one, he doesn't believe it. He doesn't think there is anything wrong with him. He thinks everyone else is wrong.

I think there are more of them around than we realize. I was reading an article on it and realized that I couldn't identify one if I tried.

 

[eastern sun]

I know a sociopath, and even though he's been told he is one, he doesn't believe it. He doesn't think there is anything wrong with him. He thinks everyone else is wrong.

I've met a few sociopaths, and this is a great description of them.

 

[Kajira Callista]

was married to one. swore he was always innocent and right. i dont think a real one would ever admit to being one

 

[BiBunny]

I've met a few sociopaths, and this is a great description of them.

Oh, crap. I may be a sociopath then.

ETA: To answer the original question, I think it's possible that sociopaths--at least some of them--know they're sociopathic. They just don't care.

 

[graceanne]

Huh. Most likely not, but I honestly doubt that they think about themselves that way, cause that would involve them wondering if something is wrong with themselves, and admitting to faults.

 

[ThorkelGriersen]

It's a bit like the old conundrum: If you lost your mind, how would you know?

I've known two (2) mass murderers -- before they acted. In one case I predicted the outcome years before it happened. One was committed for life to a hospital for the criminally insane (ruled "McNaughton" -- too whacked out to participate in his own defense.) The other got the death penalty. Both were convinced that they were totally right.

There has recently been some serious research into this in the UK. There were 11 individuals tested against a larger control group. Only 11 were available because the research was for someone who had killed two or more people, expressed no remorse at any time, and had been judged to be psychopaths by at least two psychiatrists. The study involved a state of the art real time brain scan and was difficult because the subjects were very uncooperative and had to be brought to the university hospital, since the machines could not be transported to the prison.

The result was that the psychopaths had almost no neuron paths between the part of the brain that causes empathy (the ability to feel with others--in the frontal cortex) and the part of the brain that controls automatic muscular acts, eg scratching an itch. Usually when the skin itches, we scratch and only in the act do we become aware of the itch. It seems such people are capable of killing with as little thought as most people would give to scratching. And then see both in the same "moral free zone."

Since it appears that such people are born with defective brains, the question is whether it is acceptable to give the death penalty. Certainly such people cannot be allowed to freely wreck havoc on others.


AS TO RECOGNIZING SUCH PEOPLE, IT IS DIFFICULT.

The best definition I ever heard was from a psychiatrist.

A neurotic is someone who knows that two and two make four, but he worries about it.

A psychotic is too spaced to understand two or four.

A psychopath just doesn't give a damn what two and two equals. But if it suits his purpose, he will argue that it equals 9. And in ten minutes he will have you doubting. And in twenty minutes he will have you convinced that two and two really does equal 9.

 

[graceanne]

It's a bit like the old conundrum: If you lost your mind, how would you know?

I've known two (2) mass murderers -- before they acted. In one case I predicted the outcome years before it happened. One was committed for life to a hospital for the criminally insane (ruled "McNaughton" -- too whacked out to participate in his own defense.) The other got the death penalty. Both were convinced that they were totally right.

There has recently been some serious research into this in the UK. There were 11 individuals tested against a larger control group. Only 11 were available because the research was for someone who had killed two or more people, expressed no remorse at any time, and had been judged to be psychopaths by at least two psychiatrists. The study involved a state of the art real time brain scan and was difficult because the subjects were very uncooperative and had to be brought to the university hospital, since the machines could not be transported to the prison.

The result was that the psychopaths had almost no neuron paths between the part of the brain that causes empathy (the ability to feel with others--in the frontal cortex) and the part of the brain that controls automatic muscular acts, eg scratching an itch. Usually when the skin itches, we scratch and only in the act do we become aware of the itch. It seems such people are capable of killing with as little thought as most people would give to scratching. And then see both in the same "moral free zone."

Since it appears that such people are born with defective brains, the question is whether it is acceptable to give the death penalty. Certainly such people cannot be allowed to freely wreck havoc on others.

Cool. I mean, not that they don't have those pathways, but the explanation.

I think there are more sociopaths than we know, because not all of them have done something to get arrested for. They will murder, but only if it suits there purpose. They're wholly selfish, to the point of not realizing they're selfish.

AS TO RECOGNIZING SUCH PEOPLE, IT IS DIFFICULT.

The best definition I ever heard was from a psychiatrist.

A neurotic is someone who knows that two and two make four, but he worries about it.

A psychotic is too spaced to understand two or four.

A psychopath just doesn't give a damn what two and two equals. But if it suits his purpose, he will argue that it equals 9. And in ten minutes he will have you doubting. And in twenty minutes he will have you convinced that two and two really does equal 9.

LOL Sounds a lot like my dad. He wasn't a sociopath, but he was a narcissist and an argumentative pain in the ass.

 

[ThorkelGriersen]

I think there are more sociopaths than we know, because not all of them have done something to get arrested for. They will murder, but only if it suits there purpose. They're wholly selfish, to the point of not realizing they're selfish.

The same shrink also said: All mass murderers are psychopaths [sociopaths], but not all psychopaths are murderers, some are content to be used car salesmen.

 

[graceanne]

The same shrink also said: All mass murderers are psychopaths [sociopaths], but not all psychopaths are murderers, some are content to be used car salesmen.

Pretty much.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I've sold cars, new and used.

During two different periods in my life.

Things that make ya go, "HHhhhhmmmmm..."

 

[BiBunny]

The same shrink also said: All mass murderers are psychopaths [sociopaths], but not all psychopaths are murderers, some are content to be used car salesmen.

And horse traders. They tend to have the exact same amount of scruples as used car salesmen.

 

[ultramarineblue]

AS TO RECOGNIZING SUCH PEOPLE, IT IS DIFFICULT.

The best definition I ever heard was from a psychiatrist.

A neurotic is someone who knows that two and two make four, but he worries about it.

A psychotic is too spaced to understand two or four.

A psychopath just doesn't give a damn what two and two equals. But if it suits his purpose, he will argue that it equals 9. And in ten minutes he will have you doubting. And in twenty minutes he will have you convinced that two and two really does equal 9.

Lots of other stuff I want to respond to but I should be in bed....

So what about someone who is occasionally to spaced to care but at other times worries about it. Then last but not least, argues about it sometimes just to amuse themselves that they can convince someone that.

 

[scotsmitch2001]

we know,we just dont care

 

[chy_girl]

The same shrink also said: All mass murderers are psychopaths [sociopaths], but not all psychopaths are murderers, some are content to be used car salesmen.

Aren't lawyer and politician also on the list of careers for functional sociopaths?

 

[graceanne]

I've sold cars, new and used.

During two different periods in my life.

Things that make ya go, "HHhhhhmmmmm..."

Yeah, but you feel empathy, or so it seems through your posts. *suspicious look* Sociopaths feel empathy. That's actually the main difference between narcsisits and sociopaths.

 

[FurryFury]

According to this I was once married to a psychopath.

It's a bit like the old conundrum: If you lost your mind, how would you know?

I've known two (2) mass murderers -- before they acted. In one case I predicted the outcome years before it happened. One was committed for life to a hospital for the criminally insane (ruled "McNaughton" -- too whacked out to participate in his own defense.) The other got the death penalty. Both were convinced that they were totally right.

There has recently been some serious research into this in the UK. There were 11 individuals tested against a larger control group. Only 11 were available because the research was for someone who had killed two or more people, expressed no remorse at any time, and had been judged to be psychopaths by at least two psychiatrists. The study involved a state of the art real time brain scan and was difficult because the subjects were very uncooperative and had to be brought to the university hospital, since the machines could not be transported to the prison.

The result was that the psychopaths had almost no neuron paths between the part of the brain that causes empathy (the ability to feel with others--in the frontal cortex) and the part of the brain that controls automatic muscular acts, eg scratching an itch. Usually when the skin itches, we scratch and only in the act do we become aware of the itch. It seems such people are capable of killing with as little thought as most people would give to scratching. And then see both in the same "moral free zone."

Since it appears that such people are born with defective brains, the question is whether it is acceptable to give the death penalty. Certainly such people cannot be allowed to freely wreck havoc on others.


AS TO RECOGNIZING SUCH PEOPLE, IT IS DIFFICULT.

The best definition I ever heard was from a psychiatrist.

A neurotic is someone who knows that two and two make four, but he worries about it.

A psychotic is too spaced to understand two or four.

A psychopath just doesn't give a damn what two and two equals. But if it suits his purpose, he will argue that it equals 9. And in ten minutes he will have you doubting. And in twenty minutes he will have you convinced that two and two really does equal 9.

 

[StrayKat]

I had a relationship with diagnosed psychopath once. Good fuck but pita otherwise. Such kind of people start to annoy me very fast.

 

[jenniferbaby]

I think there are more sociopaths than we know, because not all of them have done something to get arrested for. They will murder, but only if it suits there purpose. They're wholly selfish, to the point of not realizing they're selfish.

Yes, I've noticed this in a lot of people. I can admit when I'm acting selfishly, but a truly selfish person cannot even admit it because they have no idea they are doing it. Ironically, it's their lack of ability for self-introspection that shows how selfish they are.

LOL Sounds a lot like my dad. He wasn't a sociopath, but he was a narcissist and an argumentative pain in the ass.

Sounds like my dad too. I don't know if he'd ever consider killing anyone, but who really knows.

 

[ZRT]

Some do realize it, some don't.

http://www.damninteresting.com/the-unburdened-mind

The trick I've found is watching them shift between people. The true sociopath tends to calculate the optimal response for each person they interact with. When caught between two or more people with diametrically differing worldviews, they'll kind of jar out trying to satisfy the conversation with each. To make an extreme illustration, say they're talking to a devoutly religious person and an atheist, sometimes they'll freeze up between 'God is crap' and 'Yeah, amen brother'.

Normal people are at an extreme disadvantage in dealing with sociopaths. One of the most dangerous things about them is that if a sociopath tells a lie in front of you, and you deny it, the neutral observer tends toward believing that the truth is somewhere in the middle. But because the sociopath is easily capable of simply manufacturing any sort of story, having the neutral observer believing fifty percent of their story gives them a win on the spot.

The weakness of the sociopath tends to be that they also tend to not be able to plan ahead. They generally live for the moment and act to suit themselves immediately. Plan a bit ahead and one can occasionally box them out. It's been said that pure sociopaths are utterly incapable of envisioning the future. I'd tend to disagree there, but the ones I've know do tend to have issues in that regard.

Best, if at all possible, to simply avoid them.

As for the proto-sociopath, in my experience there is something to that. People have the ability to essentially switch their conscience off for periods of time, under various forms of duress and necessity. But in those cases, it pretty much inevitably comes back to haunt them later. And there are people with an easier ability to switch off like that, and for whom the repercussions are smaller, personally. They'll experience dysfunctions, but not PTSD-esque ones.

That's personal experience, though, nothing diagnostic.

 

[Homburg]

A very good friend of mine is an ethical chap, but is only situationally moral. If you are in his accept circle of family (a term applied to non-blood relations as well, such as myself), he is utterly trustworthy and will give you shirt off his back. If he doesn't know you, don't get in his way.

He doesn't hurt people casually, nor even because he is angry, but it is because he doesn't want to be hassled by the law. In times in the past when he knew that he could get away with it, a few people got hurt very, very badly, and no one was able to prove anything. When he was still in the military, he stabbed a man in his unit five times, and then proceeded to convince his command that it was self-defense. In reality, it was irritation on his part, and a calculated decision to stab a bitch because the guy was being a dick to him. He knew that he could very likely call it self-defense and have it believed, and that is how it happened.

I would call him a proto-sociopath. He is not what I would consider a true sociopath because he does not modify what he is saying based on his audience outlook, and he is not purposefully facile. He is a proto-sociopath in that he is utterly remorseless 95% of the time, and only has a mild relationship with remorse in that 5%.

He is honestly the single most dangerous person I know, yet I would trust my kids with him because I know him that well, and I know that my kids are his family. He would literally kill someone if they tried to harm one of my kids.

 

[PertPerth]

A psychopath just doesn't give a damn what two and two equals. But if it suits his purpose, he will argue that it equals 9. And in ten minutes he will have you doubting. And in twenty minutes he will have you convinced that two and two really does equal 9.

I couldn't have said it better myself. In my mind, psychopaths are so convinced that what they think is real, they have the ability to be very convincing (because they are!). They're often quite intelligent too.

It reminds me of the time my biological mother convinced my adoptive mother that I was sleeping with my brother and sister's father.