Social Norms

[Bob Peale]

These aren't my usual flavor, but a friend faced this dilemma recently so I thought I'd ask it here.

What do you do when your 4 year old son wants to get sandals for the summer?

Pink sandals?

Pink Barbie sandals?

And before you go down the psychobable path of expression and it's only a big deal if you make it a big deal, think like a parent for a second. Children can be cruel - the likelihood that he will be teased if you grant the wish is good to high. And how do you handle the fallout at home from him being teased in school.

So, do you disappoint him now and wait until you feel he is capable of dealing with some of the consequences of his actions, or do you give in because he wants them and try to rationalize the taunts to a four year old that doesn't understand why people are so mean?

This could be interesting...

 

[tmuyo]

buy him a pair of plain black sandals and tell him how great THOSE are. if he resists just smack him around till he really bawls, then curse and yell at the kid making yourself seem like an asshole.


well, that's what my mom used to do with my little brother...

i never wanted stuff, so i just shut up and took an occassional lamp to the head without sayign anything...

hmm...nevermind...don't imitate what my mom did. she ruined my life and i've only started to recover within the last year.

 

[Siren]

I dont know the answer but I have a question for you

 

[SweetCherry]

I'd probably just tell him that they didn't have them in his size and find something else. Luckily, I've never had to deal with that from my 4 year old son. He did, however, ask for a toy microwave for Christmas.

 

[VanB]

1) Tell him he'll have the piss taken out of him if he has pink Barbie sandals
2) Let him have them
3) Let him have the piss taken out of him
4) Tell him "told you so"
5) He won't do anything so daft again - problem solved.

 

[lobito]

Van, I doubt that you are being serious, but I hardly think that'll solve anything...

Siren, that's really me in mine!

Bob, While I don't ahve a son, and you know I love my step daughter dearly, it's just not the same for me to answer as a "parent". As a boy who actually used his little sisters easy bake oven, to learn how to cook and bake, I can say that THAT helped me become a VERY good cook. No one beat me up, because I never told anyone.

However your situtaion is obvioulsy different. I do agree with SweetCherry, that you should maybe try saying, nope not your size how about these cool blue/black orange/yellow/whatever ones instead.

 

[lilminx]

I don't have kids so I can't possibly understand how you feel about it. However, as a teacher of 6 year olds, when we do projects, occasionally a boy will want pink paper. The other boys and even some of the girls say "Ewww, pink is for girls!". I tell them that all colors are for everyone, and that if the boy wants pink, he can have pink; that it's no different than a girl wanting green. Of course, it's different than actually wearing pink sandals for everyone to see. I think that Sweet Cherry's idea might actually be a good one.

Maybe get him something that's Barbie that won't be as easily seen by everyone?

VanB, why is it "daft" of his child to want pink Barbie sandals?

 

[Bob Peale]

Siren, that's really me in mine!

Liar. That's my ass and you know it!

 

[SINthysist]

It's the day before xmas

I am still in sandals, have long hair, and am mostly unshaven.

I am not the Christ, sorry Todd, but they are comfortable and normal. The only thing that would cause you doubt would be your own confidence in your sexuality.

If you've read my stories, the Ziggy Stardust would come to mind.

 

[cymbidia]

I have a five year old son and a 13 year old daughter. My son *worships* my daughter and she loves him a lot, too. (It's hard not to respond postively to someone who worships you.)

My daughter is a very social girl and usually has lots of friends around. They let my son hang out with them a lot, until i go in and rescue them by dragging him away (a process that sometimes involves use of the timer with its loud "DING" when his visiting time is over).

My son is just coming out of a period of time when he really wanted to wear the kinds of things the big girls were wearing, including a bit of makeup and jewelry - and some pink sneakers with lots of glittery stuff like theirs, too.

Before i go any further: i'm pretty PC. In my everyday life, i fit extremely well into my very liberal, very PCish town, no doubt about it. I confess it freely.

Anyway, i decided that the taunts he *would* come up against at this point (he goes to a full time Montessori kindergarten) outweighed the real benefits of letting him choose makeup, jewelry, and/or pink shoes for himself.

I told him those things were for really big girls and that THESE shoes, all of these, were for big boys like him. He accepted it without a problem, though i was prepared to stand firm on the issue.

Sometimes, it's kinder to help little boys to accept the realities of the stereotypical gender roles (including clothing choices) within which they'll have to find comfort for at least their elementary school days. Later, junior high school and beyond, a lot more self-expression with reagrd to personal attire choices are not only appropriate but desireable. Pink shoes on a boy in kindergarten, though, can only produce some pretty big problems for him.

IMO.




Addendum: I'm a teacher and a mother and i ask you this: please do not lie to the boy. Please don't tell him that the sandals don't come in his size if they do.

Tell him the truth.

Tell him, simply, that those sandals are for girls and all THESE are for boys - and which of THESE does he want. If he throws a fit, tell him that if he cannot behave in public then he cannot stay in public, and take him home without any sandals. Then discuss the matter and go back to get them another day.

Don't lie. He doesn't learn WHY he can't have them if you lie. You lose the chance to do a little bit od socializing. No one wins if you lie to him about why he can't have them.

 

[VanB]

Just to clarify my post was made with tongue firmly in cheek!

Best way to deal with it has already been mentioned i.e. yes, son they're nice but what about these which are nicer (preferably pointing out some sandals being worn by a friend of his or some such)

It's not daft to want to wear pink Barbie sandals as a 4 year old kid but I think it might be little daft to let him. All IMHO of course.

 

[SINthysist]

Robert, Dear Fellow,

You went over thier head and mentioned sandal and pink in the same post.

Sandals are normal. Dress-up is normal. I'm a guy's guy, a fighter and a father.

Kids do what kids do. Kids pick on each other. If it ain't sandals, it will be something else. If you kid fits in, he'll pick on someone else.

It's what kids do. They're like little animals (or little adults) that way.

Worry about important things. I have to watch what I say because after many years of being a guy's guy, I use the f-word a lot. Like noun, verb, pronoun, adjuctive...

 

[lovetoread]

I always do the "Yes son,thats a great pair,but how about these instead?" routine with my son.

I know that you are supposed to let them express themselves and if he was 18 telling me that he wanted these sandles I would help him pick out the perfect pair,but as a child I think I have the right to turn him away from the pink pair and introduce him to the ones that are blue with a truck on them.

 

[Weird Harold]

Tell him the truth

Barbie (tm) sandals only come in girls' sizes they don't make them in boys' sizes.

 

[LadyDarkFire]

How about asking him why he wants them, and then telling him the truth, all of it? IMHO if the child wants something out of the norm, there will usually be some form of reason, and generally it will seem logical, to them at least. If he still wants them, why not just explain to him, in the most basic of terms, what makes you hesitate from buying him the sandals. If he is going to bring up the issue now, it needs to be addressed now. Don't lie to a child, and don't patronize either, because generally, kids have the best sense for people, and will know if someone is doing these things.

 

[Merelan]

Once again cymbidia took the words out of my mouth. I want her to be my Mommy.
Wait, no. My sister.
Nope, scratch that.
I want to be her lover. Yeah, her lover.

Unfortunately they need to learn life's lessons. A boy in pink Barbie sandals is most likely going to get the heck teased out of him. Then again, maybe not. Shrugging shoulders. Parenting is half guesswork and half praying you chose the right answer, isn't it?

 

[morninggirl5]

cym's response was wonderful, as usual.

I would also find out why he wanted pink barbie sandals. Last Christmas, my nephew wanted a Barbie cash register. My father was aghast, until Ty explained that the Barbie cash register had a microphone, credit cards, price tags AND it talked. Problem solved and Ty got his Barbie cash register.

I suspect the pink Barbie Sandals may be because a friend at school has them or he's seen an ad on tv for them. Explanations usually work with 4 and 5 year olds.

 

[login]

Another vote for telling him the truth about why you don't want to buy them for him. You're his father. He looks to you for guidance on what it means to be a man. That doesn't mean that you have to whack him for even asking for them, (and I can't imagine you being that kind of father), but gently steering him toward footwear more acceptable to his peer group won't scar him for life.

 

[IA951]

While I am not a parent and don't plan to become one, anything I say
is most likely going to be passed over..no matter though.

A relative of mine has a son and had encountered a like situation.
My relative was totally against his son wearing, in his words "queer" shoes.
I took the opportunity to sit down with the boy (he's about 7, I guess)
and told him, look man...people are bastards, total assholes...just ask your old man, we both put up with them on a daily basis.
Life is disapointment, it's good to learn this young so you can get used to it now.
I know that you want those shoes...we all want something, can't always get what you want, ask the rolling stones.."you can't always get what you want"
I tend to think that it might make you a better person later on, if you got everything you ever wanted how would you feel?

 

[lobito]

and of course you want to teach young kids words like bastards and assholes huh? WOW! good for you for NOT wanting to have kids, they're some lucky bastards, for not having you as a parent/role model.

 

[IA951]

and of course you want to teach young kids words like bastards and assholes huh? WOW! good for you for NOT wanting to have kids, they're some lucky bastards, for not having you as a parent/role model.

ok, I'll bite.

I'm not in the role model business, first of all.

Second, you ever heard the way his father talks just as a matter of course, my saying "bastard" or "asshole" one time is not going to matter much when he hears much worse on a daily basis.

I think that I have something of a message for the youth today.

Life is disappointment, learn early.
I happen to believe that what breeds disappointment and in turn becomes a source of frustration is that in this culture we have such artifically high expectations of everything and everyone.
And when you come into contact with the rest of the world and it's the real deal and not just words on a page, not just abstract ideals
you discover that everything is not as neat and tidy as you would like it to be, reality comes up short,
humanity comes up short.
This is where disappointment breeds and perhaps even festers.

sorry to go off on a tagent like that..

 

[alltherage]

I would be tempted to allow him to get them. My son is 4. I would ask why he wanted them, and if he said because I like them(as he is likely to do) and i could not suggest him into another pair the likelihood is he would have them. It may cause conflict with other kids but at that age it might not. It is really hard to say.

I know some mothers who get worried that there boys play with dolls. My son plays with his sister and they play with dolls. It is a different play experience for them both. My daughter plays with dolls so she can immitate me. My son plays with the same doll and fights pirates. I guess what I really hate is that society gives a fig what a 4 year old wears.