Soccer

[R. Richard]

Businessman, Malcom Glaser bought a controlling interest in the Manchester United soccer team. Total destruction of the Red Devils was widely predicted. I have obtained the 2007-2008 English Premier League standings at the half way point of the season. Comment?


English Premier League

2007-08 Table
Team GP W D L Pts GF GA GD
Manchester United 19 14 3 2 45 36 9 27
Arsenal 19 13 5 1 44 36 15 21
Chelsea 19 11 5 3 38 29 14 15
Liverpool 18 10 6 2 36 33 12 21
Manchester City 18 10 4 4 34 25 20 5
Everton 19 10 3 6 33 34 18 16
Portsmouth 19 8 7 4 31 29 19 10
Aston Villa 19 8 6 5 30 33 25 8
West Ham United 18 7 5 6 26 23 16 7
Blackburn 18 7 5 6 26 23 25 -2
Newcastle United 19 7 5 7 26 26 29 -3
Reading 19 6 4 9 22 25 36 -11
Tottenham 19 5 6 8 21 35 32 3
Birmingham City 19 5 3 11 18 21 30 -9
Bolton 19 4 5 10 17 21 29 -8
Middlesbrough 19 4 5 10 17 17 33 -16
Wigan Athletic FC 19 4 4 11 16 19 34 -15
Fulham 19 2 8 9 14 20 34 -14
Sunderland 19 3 5 11 14 17 38 -21
Derby County 19 1 4 14 7 9 43 -34

 

[English Lady]

He's not interfered overly much. I don't put club success down to the Glazerers but the vision of our Manager Alex Ferguson and the talent of the players.

I really hate that our monery goes to pay off the damn Glazers debt (the ticket prices went up significantly again this season -so much so that it's virtually priced me out. I've been to one match, I don't anticipate being able to go to any more) but least they're letting Fergie get on with it alright.

 

[R. Richard]

He's not interfered overly much. I don't put club success down to the Glazerers but the vision of our Manager Alex Ferguson and the talent of the players.

The exercise of restraint and letting football people run the footy [footie?] is actually a fairly rare talent. Most owners think that their money makes them experts in anything they try. Malcom Glaser seems to be something of an exception.

 

[English Lady]

The exercise of restraint and letting football people run the footy [footie?] is actually a fairly rare talent. Most owners think that their money makes them experts in anything they try. Malcom Glaser seems to be something of an exception.

I find it hard to say anything good about them, to be honest but I Thank God he's left things well alone.

It's like he's bought the family heirlooms and loaned them back but with "Property of Glazer" stuck on each item.

 

[gauchecritic]

When you say 'bought' do you mean he actually used money that he had?

big business has no place in football. Especially if that big business is Rupert Murdoch. (I still can't believe you yanqui let him do that)

 

[Boxlicker101]

When you say 'bought' do you mean he actually used money that he had?

big business has no place in football. Especially if that big business is Rupert Murdoch. (I still can't believe you yanqui let him do that)

I am a bit puzzled by that. Almost every major sports franchise in the US and Canada is owned by Big Business. The Green Bay Packers is an exception and I don't know that much about Canadian Football. Even if a group of investers has nothing but a sports franchise, that is enough to make that group big business.

When a franchise is bought, money and other liquid assets are used.

ETA: I don't consider "Major League Soccor" to be very major, at least in comparison to MLB, the NFL, the NBA and the NHL. Those four are, as far as I am concerned, the only "major" sports franchises in the US.

 

[English Lady]

When you say 'bought' do you mean he actually used money that he had?

Ooooh, bingo! That is what completely rubs me up the wrong way.

 

[colddiesel]

ETA: I don't consider "Major League Soccor" to be very major, at least in comparison to MLB, the NFL, the NBA and the NHL. Those four are, as far as I am concerned, the only "major" sports franchises in the US.

That is the oddity about American Sport; American Football, Baseball, Ice hockey barely exist outside the USA. Consequently the worlds biggest club franchises are all Football(Soccer) clubs, Manchester United, Real Madrid, Milan, etc head the list. Man U and Real Madrid for examples have more fan club members in Japan, Korea and China than any US based sporting franchise has in its own country.

It's a marketeers dream and the reason why Americans now own several Major European clubs. To give an example of the pulling power of football the World cup has an audience 60% greater than the Olympics and the Olympics in turn gets 45% of its revenue from fees for its (minor) football competition.

The second and third International team sports are Cricket and Rugby but are miles behind football. Cricket, however, probably has the Worlds best known sportsman, Sachin Tendulkar of India. I suspect most Americans have never heard of him.

 

[gauchecritic]

I am a bit puzzled by that. Almost every major sports franchise in the US and Canada is owned by Big Business. The Green Bay Packers is an exception and I don't know that much about Canadian Football. Even if a group of investers has nothing but a sports franchise, that is enough to make that group big business.

When a franchise is bought, money and other liquid assets are used.

ETA: I don't consider "Major League Soccor" to be very major, at least in comparison to MLB, the NFL, the NBA and the NHL. Those four are, as far as I am concerned, the only "major" sports franchises in the US.

According to certain 'sources' Man U. was bought (as I suppose often happens in business) with its own money. It was bought, as far as I can tell as a 'future'. The money to be paid to whoever needed to be paid would come from future profits of the club.

Money shouldn't be what sport is about. wages per week outgrossing yearly wages for millions of people isn't what sport should be about. Franchising isn't what sport should be about. Celebrities being the only people able to afford to buy tickets to see their team isn't what sport should be about.

Football has suffered because of it. The English national team has suffered. And Murdoch is the largest culprit of its downfall. (along with the Italian FA)

 

[English Lady]

According to certain 'sources' Man U. was bought (as I suppose often happens in business) with its own money. It was bought, as far as I can tell as a 'future'. The money to be paid to whoever needed to be paid would come from future profits of the club.

Money shouldn't be what sport is about. wages per week outgrossing yearly wages for millions of people isn't what sport should be about. Franchising isn't what sport should be about. Celebrities being the only people able to afford to buy tickets to see their team isn't what sport should be about.

Football has suffered because of it. The English national team has suffered. And Murdoch is the largest culprit of its downfall. (along with the Italian FA)

Amen Brother!

 

[R. Richard]

There have been several references to the NHL as a US operation. If I may point out, the NHL is also heavily based in Canada, including its most storied franchise, the Habs [The Montreal Canadiens.]

 

[Boxlicker101]

That is the oddity about American Sport; American Football, Baseball, Ice hockey barely exist outside the USA. Consequently the worlds biggest club franchises are all Football(Soccer) clubs, Manchester United, Real Madrid, Milan, etc head the list. Man U and Real Madrid for examples have more fan club members in Japan, Korea and China than any US based sporting franchise has in its own country.

It's a marketeers dream and the reason why Americans now own several Major European clubs. To give an example of the pulling power of football the World cup has an audience 60% greater than the Olympics and the Olympics in turn gets 45% of its revenue from fees for its (minor) football competition.

The second and third International team sports are Cricket and Rugby but are miles behind football. Cricket, however, probably has the Worlds best known sportsman, Sachin Tendulkar of India. I suspect most Americans have never heard of him.

I agree that American football does not have a big following outside the USA, but Baseball, Basketball and Hockey are all quite popular in Europe. Baseball is very big in Japan and Taiwan, and the International Little League tournament attracts contestants from all over the world.

Cricket is thought of (unfairly) as a caricature of white people in white clothing sitting around drinking tea, and Rugby is pretty much unknown.

I have never seen an actual cricket match or game of Rugby, and probably never will. I have sometimes watched soccer on TV, and it appears to be two groups of people in various colored jerseys running back and forth, aimlessly kicking a ball around, with almost no scoring. I realize that if I knew more about the sport, I would probably appreciate it a lot more, but I'm not that interested in learing.

 

[Boxlicker101]

There have been several references to the NHL as a US operation. If I may point out, the NHL is also heavily based in Canada, including its most storied franchise, the Habs [The Montreal Canadiens.]

I am aware of that, which is why I referred to the US and Canada. I think the majority of NHL teams are now in the USA, but that has come to be fairly recently. There are also MLB and NBA teams in Toronto, and maybe other Canadian cities.

 

[colddiesel]

I agree that American football does not have a big following outside the USA, but Baseball, Basketball and Hockey are all quite popular in Europe. Baseball is very big in Japan and Taiwan, and the International Little League tournament attracts contestants from all over the world.

Cricket is thought of (unfairly) as a caricature of white people in white clothing sitting around drinking tea, and Rugby is pretty much unknown.

I have never seen an actual cricket match or game of Rugby, and probably never will. I have sometimes watched soccer on TV, and it appears to be two groups of people in various colored jerseys running back and forth, aimlessly kicking a ball around, with almost no scoring. I realize that if I knew more about the sport, I would probably appreciate it a lot more, but I'm not that interested in learing.

Not quite right Box. Baseball has a lower profile in Europe than Cricket does in the USA. Hockey is moderately popular but not Ice Hockey. Field Hockey is much stronger. Basket ball is the only American Sport to have made inroads in Europe but the main interest is in Eastern Europe where the money ain't. Therefore any US investor is not going to bother with that and will concentrate on Football.

Your'e right about the image of Cricket, the fact that India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and the West Indies have all won the Cricket World Cup doesn't seem to have changed that at all. Ironically unlike baseball Cricket is a game where the bowlers(pitchers) are encouraged if they can to hit and injure the batters. The quickest bowlers deliver a 5.5 ounce projectile at around 100 mph! It hurts. Cricket is also very lucky because apart from the game itself, at International level it pits White against Black and against Brown, Christians against Moslems , Hindus and Budhists and the former Imperial powers against the oppressed colonies. It's a heady cultural mix.

True Baseball is popular in Japan but is steadily losing ground to Football and Rugby(The Japanese have over 2100 Rugby clubs.

The tragedy of International Sport is that the USA does not get to compete as the USA against any other major and competitive nation in a major sport. You are old enough to remember some 30 years ago the series of Ice Hockey games between the USA and the USSR. The atmosphere and competitiveness was amazing . There is simply nothing like getting behind your own country in a sporting contest - but it has to be competitive.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Not quite right Box. Baseball has a lower profile in Europe than Cricket does in the USA. Hockey is moderately popular but not Ice Hockey. Field Hockey is much stronger. Basket ball is the only American Sport to have made inroads in Europe but the main interest is in Eastern Europe where the money ain't. Therefore any US investor is not going to bother with that and will concentrate on Football.

Your'e right about the image of Cricket, the fact that India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and the West Indies have all won the Cricket World Cup doesn't seem to have changed that at all. Ironically unlike baseball Cricket is a game where the bowlers(pitchers) are encouraged if they can to hit and injure the batters. The quickest bowlers deliver a 5.5 ounce projectile at around 100 mph! It hurts. Cricket is also very lucky because apart from the game itself, at International level it pits White against Black and against Brown, Christians against Moslems , Hindus and Budhists and the former Imperial powers against the oppressed colonies. It's a heady cultural mix.

True Baseball is popular in Japan but is steadily losing ground to Football and Rugby(The Japanese have over 2100 Rugby clubs.

The tragedy of International Sport is that the USA does not get to compete as the USA against any other major and competitive nation in a major sport. You are old enough to remember some 30 years ago the series of Ice Hockey games between the USA and the USSR. The atmosphere and competitiveness was amazing . There is simply nothing like getting behind your own country in a sporting contest - but it has to be competitive.

There are organized baseball leagues all over Europe, which you can find by Googling "European Baseball". There are basketball leagues in Germany and Italy.

I am old enough to remember the hockey series you mention, and I also remember the Olympics, with basketball played in the summer and hockey played in the winter. I usually refer to hockey and field hockey, although the two sports have little in common, except for the basic rules. I believe field hockey is actually more like soccer.

 

[colddiesel]

There are organized baseball leagues all over Europe, which you can find by Googling "European Baseball". There are basketball leagues in Germany and Italy.

I am old enough to remember the hockey series you mention, and I also remember the Olympics, with basketball played in the summer and hockey played in the winter. I usually refer to hockey and field hockey, although the two sports have little in common, except for the basic rules. I believe field hockey is actually more like soccer.

Hockey was first played in the summer Olympics in about 1930 on a field and still is. I take your point about European Baseball but in 20 years of travelling in Europe I have never seen a game or any Baseball facility outside of a US military base. It gets no media coverage either. Football gets so much coverage at the expense of other sports it's infuriating.

One interesting piece of trivia is that many years ago Rugby was also played at the Olympics, the last time being in Stockholm in 1912 - and the winners were the good ole USA.

 

[cloudy]

Rugby is pretty much unknown.

I beg to differ.

Maybe folks of your generation have never heard of rugby, but most my age and younger know what it is. Most colleges have rugby teams now, even the tiny one I last graduated from (my last college boyfriend played on the rugby team....he was a manly man, for sure).

 

[starrkers]

As someone from a country that excels in cricket, rugby (sometimes), hockey (not on ice) and is finally rising to recognition in soccer, it seems that American sports are a backwater - games played mostly within your own country with little or no interest outside it. And these games have developed as fast paced and very much instant gratification games.
I seriously doubt the average US sports fan would ever grasp the concept of Test Match Cricket, which is as much about psychology as it is about sporting fitness and prowess.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I beg to differ.

Maybe folks of your generation have never heard of rugby, but most my age and younger know what it is. Most colleges have rugby teams now, even the tiny one I last graduated from (my last college boyfriend played on the rugby team....he was a manly man, for sure).

Probably every adult in the USA has HEARD of Rugby, but it is very low in popularity. Rugby results are rarely included in the sports pages of newspapers or Sports Illustrated. The same can be said of many sports that are played on a college level, but not professionally. You can include wrestling, lacrosse, fencing and crew among that group, and probably more that I can't remember right now.

I had the idea that this thread was about PROFESSIONAL sports. There are four MAJOR team sports in the USA, and something called Major League Soccer, which has little following. There are individual sports also, such as golf, bowling and tennis, which are quite popular. There ight even be professional cricket or Rugby leagues, although I have never heard of any.

Actually, soccer is fairly widespread in the USA, but it has never been a very popular spectator sport, which is why profssional soccer has never caught on very well. As I mentioned before, when I have seen it on television, it seemed rather dull, with some people in different colored jerseys kicking a ball around almost at random, with no apparent strategy and hardly any scoring. If I knew more about theport, I would probably find it more interesting, but I'm not really interested in learning.

 

[gauchecritic]

As I mentioned before, when I have seen it on television, it seemed rather dull, with some people in different colored jerseys kicking a ball around almost at random, with no apparent strategy and hardly any scoring. If I knew more about theport, I would probably find it more interesting, but I'm not really interested in learning.

This might sound like I'm taking the piss, but it's really just an observation. Association football is a continuous sport which requires quite a deal of concentration for two periods of 45 minutes. I honestly can't see american crowds being able or at least wanting, to follow for that long a time.

It's not just an american thing though. I doubt whether there are many 16 to 25 year olds (unless they've been brought up on it) over here that could sit for that long without having to txt their friend or chatter aimlessly.

One of the most annoying things about going to a match is people around talking (actually needing to shout above the singing and shouting at the ref and opposition) throughout the game.

And basketball (just to get my own back) is the most unwatchable sport in the whole world, with nets (sorry baskets, I was thinking of netball) being scored every few seconds. Where's the competition? Just people in different coloured shirts running around aimlessly with no apparent strategy waiting for their turn to score.

 

[Boxlicker101]

This might sound like I'm taking the piss, but it's really just an observation. Association football is a continuous sport which requires quite a deal of concentration for two periods of 45 minutes. I honestly can't see american crowds being able or at least wanting, to follow for that long a time.

It's not just an american thing though. I doubt whether there are many 16 to 25 year olds (unless they've been brought up on it) over here that could sit for that long without having to txt their friend or chatter aimlessly.

One of the most annoying things about going to a match is people around talking (actually needing to shout above the singing and shouting at the ref and opposition) throughout the game.

And basketball (just to get my own back) is the most unwatchable sport in the whole world, with nets (sorry baskets, I was thinking of netball) being scored every few seconds. Where's the competition? Just people in different coloured shirts running around aimlessly with no apparent strategy waiting for their turn to score.

American football games tend to run about three hours, but the action is not continuous. Most baseball games last between two and three hours, but the action is not continuous either. I point these numbers out to show that people do sit and watch games that take as long as soccer, or longer.

I Somewhat agree about basketball in the NBA. In college, however, the game is a lot different, with passing and a lot of speed and action. As for the most unwatchable sport, I would vote for yacht racing. To me, that would be about as exciting as watching grass grow.

 

[R. Richard]

Basketball and soccer are, IMNTHO, sports that you have to have played to really follow. Once you realize how difficult it is for a striker to break free and take a goalkeeper-only-defended shot, it builds a certain appreciation for the sport. Similarly, when you see a technically brilliant defender [Claudio Gentile comes to mind, although I have only seen him on film] stop a breakaway cold, you have to understand the processes involved.

Anyone who thinks that basketball is just guys running back and forth and throwing a ball at a goal should try playing at the point guard [the 1] position and take the ball down the lane. The center [the 5] and the power forward [the 4] positions try to actively discourage such penetration by the 1. Typically the 5 and the 4 are each much larger than the 1. Thus, the 1 has to use advanced techniques to assert his rght to drive the lane. [Yes, Virginia, basketball is a contact sport.]