So, you don't like those yellow ribbons...

[Guest]

Ok. I have no problem with someone who does not support the people who keep them free. Although, I do feel that the men and women who paid with their blood and their lives to buy the freedoms you take for granted every day, have EARNED the respect you refuse to show them. But that's your choice, you have that right to disagree with the military even though you did NOTHING to earn that right. So be it. I don't get upset over that.

On the other hand, when you berate the people who stand behind those men and women who guard your freedom with their lives, when you so loudly voice your disrespect for the people who love their country and are proud to show there support, you are spitting right in my face.

And that will PISS ME RIGHT THE FUCK OFF!

And that is ALL I have to say about that.

 

[Guest]

Ok. I have no problem with someone who does not support the people who keep them free. Although, I do feel that the men and women who paid with their blood and their lives to buy the freedoms you take for granted every day, have EARNED the respect you refuse to show them. But that's your choice, you have that right to disagree with the military even though you did NOTHING to earn that right. So be it. I don't get upset over that.

On the other hand, when you berate the people who stand behind those men and women who guard your freedom with their lives, when you so loudly voice your disrespect for the people who love their country and are proud to show there support, you are spitting right in my face.

And that will PISS ME RIGHT THE FUCK OFF!

And that is ALL I have to say about that.

OK - I'm out of the loop, not too certain where this is coming from.

Dran, are you talking about the magnetic ribbons on vehicles?

 

[minsue]

OK - I'm out of the loop, not too certain where this is coming from.

Dran, are you talking about the magnetic ribbons on vehicles?

I'd guess he's talking about a sig line.


Personally, my magentic ribbon states simply "support our troops, end the war". Amazingly enough, my car hasn't been keyed yet.

 

[Guest]

I'd guess he's talking about a sig line.


Personally, my magentic ribbon states simply "support our troops, end the war". Amazingly enough, my car hasn't been keyed yet.

Gracious.

Isn't he aware that the money for those oh-so-popular "Support the troops" ribbons never even makes it to the troops?

 

[JamesSD]

Gracious.

Isn't he aware that the money for those oh-so-popular "Support the troops" ribbons never even makes it to the troops?

They also are often adorning gas-guzzling SUVs. The ribbons are somewhat asinine, but SUVs and Hummers make my blood boil.

I have several friends in the military, two who went to Iraq (and luckily came back safe, although one messed up her knee pretty bad). My Brother-in-law is Air Force. So I know a few things about supporting military personnel.

As long as people understand that you can support troops and love the United States without supporting an unjust war and a corrupt regime, then I think we'll be ok.

 

[SeaCat]

Gracious.

Isn't he aware that the money for those oh-so-popular "Support the troops" ribbons never even makes it to the troops?

Nope it doesn't, but then again neither does the money from the flag I bought for the back of my car. Oh and I almost forgot, the money from the flag I bought in 1984 didn't go to anyone but the manufacturer.

To me it doesn't really matter to whom the money goes. To me what is more important is the idea that the person is willing to show their support, no matter how small, for our troops.

Cat

 

[Guest]

They also are often adorning gas-guzzling SUVs. The ribbons are somewhat asinine, but SUVs and Hummers make my blood boil.

I have several friends in the military, two who went to Iraq (and luckily came back safe, although one messed up her knee pretty bad). My Brother-in-law is Air Force. So I know a few things about supporting military personnel.

As long as people understand that you can support troops and love the United States without supporting an unjust war and a corrupt regime, then I think we'll be ok.

What bothers me immensely is that so many people don't understand that fact.

 

[Guest]

Nope it doesn't, but then again neither does the money from the flag I bought for the back of my car. Oh and I almost forgot, the money from the flag I bought in 1984 didn't go to anyone but the manufacturer.

To me it doesn't really matter to whom the money goes. To me what is more important is the idea that the person is willing to show their support, no matter how small, for our troops.

Cat

Cat - I understand what you're saying.

But to me, those magnetic decals are more political than supportive of our troops. I just haven't been able to make that leap.

We do display a flag at home. It's beautiful, all-weather, lit at night; from our living room you can see it waving.

I'm an Air Force brat. I feel proud when I see it.

And it doesn't make me feel political at all.

 

[erise]

I've never heard of those yellow ribbons until just now. No offense meant, but to me it seems like more of a gimmick than anything else. A tag for those passively rooting for the troops instead of actively taking part.

I don't know... Maybe it's because I have a totally different connotation to patriotism and soldiers than you. Living my teen years in the middle of a war have imprinted a hate for anything calling itself a patriot that is hard to shake off. Even "my own" troops. In a way, especially them.

<shrug> Just saying that there are so many explanations to behaviour that may seem hateful or disrespectful to you, but that makes perfect sense in another person's eyes.

 

[she_is_my_addiction]

Ok. I have no problem with someone who does not support the people who keep them free. Although, I do feel that the men and women who paid with their blood and their lives to buy the freedoms you take for granted every day, have EARNED the respect you refuse to show them. But that's your choice, you have that right to disagree with the military even though you did NOTHING to earn that right. So be it. I don't get upset over that.

On the other hand, when you berate the people who stand behind those men and women who guard your freedom with their lives, when you so loudly voice your disrespect for the people who love their country and are proud to show there support, you are spitting right in my face.

And that will PISS ME RIGHT THE FUCK OFF!

And that is ALL I have to say about that.

Here's what I really believe:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/spaceysmith/Snarky%20Photos/ribbon-based-economy.jpg

 

[Guest]

Here's what I really believe:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/spaceysmith/Snarky%20Photos/ribbon-based-economy.jpg

Gee.

I wonder if your sig line could be what caused Dran to begin this thread?

Hmmm.

 

[she_is_my_addiction]

You want to know what else I believe? I believe this country is turning into nothing more than a redneck, bigoted, closeminded shithole. Not that we weren't like that before, but now we are more than ever. If you support the war and the people fighting in it, fine. But if you tell yourself there's a logical explanation for the killing going on over in Iraq, then you're as big of an asshole as the next person. I resent the fact that THOUSANDS of innocent people are being killed by us, probably every day. Am I proud of my country? No. Am I ashamed to say I'm American and that my president is George W. Bush? Yes. I think this country has gone to shit and I shake my head every time I hear of yet another blurb about this war.

Oh, I'm sorry, do my opinions on the situation offend you? Deal with it. If you're supporting this war, maybe you need to think about what exactly you're supporting.

 

[she_is_my_addiction]

Gee.

I wonder if your sig line could be what caused Dran to begin this thread?

Hmmm.

Oh well. He'll live, I'm sure.

 

[she_is_my_addiction]

I'd guess he's talking about a sig line.


Personally, my magentic ribbon states simply "support our troops, end the war". Amazingly enough, my car hasn't been keyed yet.

I like that one you've got.

 

[she_is_my_addiction]

I've never heard of those yellow ribbons until just now. No offense meant, but to me it seems like more of a gimmick than anything else. A tag for those passively rooting for the troops instead of actively taking part.

I don't know... Maybe it's because I have a totally different connotation to patriotism and soldiers than you. Living my teen years in the middle of a war have imprinted a hate for anything calling itself a patriot that is hard to shake off. Even "my own" troops. In a way, especially them.

<shrug> Just saying that there are so many explanations to behaviour that may seem hateful or disrespectful to you, but that makes perfect sense in another person's eyes.

It IS a gimmick. Did anyone ever notice how after September 11th, American patriotism turned into little more than scary "Nazi patriotism"?

ETA: I'm sorry I'm not Canadian.

 

[oggbashan]

I have a sneaking sympathy for the position of our Liberal Democrat Members of Parliament.

They opposed the war yet once it had started they support the troops. That is a tradition for Westminster. The troops are asked, by the Government of the day, to perform certain tasks. Once that task has started, it is the duty of everyone in parliament to support the troops in the performance of their duties, no matter how you might differ about the decision that gave the troops that task.

The armed forces do not make the decision to go to war. The politicians do that. The armed forces obey the orders given by their commanders with, at least in the UK forces, provisos about legitimate targets and respect for the Geneva Convention. UK troops have been trained, because of Northern Ireland, in policing activities in an area where the population is at best passive and at worst hostile.

Og

 

[Guest]

I'm going to reply to Dran's first post.

Why can't we make our opinions known about Iraq without being flamed? Why?

Why is it that my own father these days is bothered by the fact I'm against a war? He retired after 22 years; we saw a great deal of the world when stationed five years at Ramstein in what was then West Germany. I grew up on base - 8 different bases, to be exact. My dad knows I've always promoted the military.

But why has it become unpatriotic to question our leaders?

That's the point of this country, is it not? Isn't that one of our founding purposes, our ability as citizens to question and and argue and demand a voice in the running of our government? Didn't we decide that religion had no place in government as we attempted to find a tolerant place for individualistic religious views (even though the Puritans went on to become one of the most religiously intolerant groups in history, but I digress.)

Damn it, Dran. Young men and women (and since they are raising the age level at which they'll accept new recruits, some of our older men and women) are being used as cannon fodder to help someone maintain power as a lame duck president.

How dare you question my patriotism? You have no right.

And that pisses me right the fuck off.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

The sig Dran was upset about featured a black bumper sticker with red lettering proclaiming "the Germans Supported their troops too" and one of those red circles with a line through it superimposed over a yellow support our troops ribbon.

Lidice.

 

[Guest]

I'm going to reply to Dran's first post.

Why can't we make our opinions known about Iraq without being flamed? Why?

Why is it that my own father these days is bothered by the fact I'm against a war? He retired after 22 years; we saw a great deal of the world when stationed five years at Ramstein in what was then West Germany. I grew up on base - 8 different bases, to be exact. My dad knows I've always promoted the military.

But why has it become unpatriotic to question our leaders?

That's the point of this country, is it not? Isn't that one of our founding purposes, our ability as citizens to question and and argue and demand a voice in the running of our government? Didn't we decide that religion had no place in government as we attempted to find a tolerant place for individualistic religious views (even though the Puritans went on to become one of the most religiously intolerant groups in history, but I digress.)

Damn it, Dran. Young men and women (and since they are raising the age level at which they'll accept new recruits, some of our older men and women) are being used as cannon fodder to help someone maintain power as a lame duck president.

How dare you question my patriotism? You have no right.

And that pisses me right the fuck off.

I'm not saying that anyone is not entitled to their oppinion. You have a right to your oppinion and I respect that. I said as much in the original post.

But when I am called a Nazi for supporting our troops and voicing MY oppinion, then I am offended. And I have every right to BE offended by it.

If you don't support our troops and you don't agree with the actions of our elected officials in the Iraq conflict that's fine with me. I don't agree with you but that's life.

But I WILL NOT be called a Nazi because you don't agree with me.

 

[Guest]

I support our troops. I'm the daughter of a vet.

I just don't support the politicians who decided we should go to war.

BIG difference.


Edited to add: And as offended as you are at being likened to a Nazi, I am similarly offended by being called unpatriotic and unsupportive of those who, as ordered, are dying for this country.

 

[Guest]

I support our troops. I'm the daughter of a vet.

I just don't support the politicians who decided we should go to war.

BIG difference.

Yes there IS a big difference.

So, did you vote? If so your vote was counted. If your chosen candidate did not gain his intended office, there is a reason for that. It's called democracy. The way democracy works is all of the people who want to have a say in their government submit their votes for what they want their government to be. When the votes are tallied the decisions are made based on what the majority want.

So, you candidate didn't get his office, that's because the majority of the people didn't want him.

Now if we start throwing government officials out and replacing them with different ones based on who cries the loudest and the longest that ceases to be a democracy. That is letting the children run the country. I'm sure there's a greek word for that but I don't know what it is.

 

[Guest]

Dran?

Oh, never mind.

My reply would be pointless. It wouldn't further the thread, it would simply be a back-and-forth disagreement on basic principles between you and I that would never be resolved.

And yes, I did vote. I always vote. Even in Kansas, where my vote was pointless because of the electoral college. Is that democracy?

 

[davidwatts]

I've never understood how a yellow ribbon on a car or around a tree or anywhere else helps some poor man or woman stuck in the middle of some shithole like Iraq, unless they have incredible vision. It makes you feel good? That's fine. That's one of the perks of living in a free country.

You want to show some support? Tell one of them that comes home that you're happy they made it back. Donate to a cause that gives the troops some comfort or help instead of lining the pockets of a trinket magnet company.

A flag waving from the antenna of a car doesn't make a person a great American patriot any more than walking into a garage makes you a mechanic.


ps: On only a semi-related note... I'm sick of yahoos in pickup trucks with flags waving, swerving in and out of interstate traffic with no regard for others, speed limits and directional signals be damned. You love this country so much, observe the friggin' laws!

pps: please forgive my throbbing grey goose hangover.

 

[Guest]

I've never understood how a yellow ribbon on a car or around a tree or anywhere else helps some poor man or woman stuck in the middle of some shithole like Iraq, unless they have incredible vision. It makes you feel good? That's fine. That's one of the perks of living in a free country.

You want to show some support? Tell one of them that comes home that you're happy they made it back. Donate to a cause that gives the troops some comfort or help instead of lining the pockets of a trinket magnet company.

A flag waving from the antenna of a car doesn't make a person a great American patriot any more than walking into a garage makes you a mechanic.

Yes. The ribbons don't seem very supportive to me, they seem like someone is trying to make a buck off someone else's pain.

A few months ago a colleague, a principle at a public school in Topeka, lost his son in Iraq. How can I even imagine the grief they are feeling?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I've never understood how a yellow ribbon on a car or around a tree or anywhere else helps some poor man or woman stuck in the middle of some shithole like Iraq, unless they have incredible vision. It makes you feel good? That's fine. That's one of the perks of living in a free country.

You want to show some support? Tell one of them that comes home that you're happy they made it back. Donate to a cause that gives the troops some comfort or help instead of lining the pockets of a trinket magnet company.

A flag waving from the antenna of a car doesn't make a person a great American patriot any more than walking into a garage makes you a mechanic.


ps: On only a semi-related note... I'm sick of yahoos in pickup trucks with flags waving, swerving in and out of interstate traffic with no regard for others, speed limits and directional signals be damned. You love this country so much, observe the friggin' laws!

pps: please forgive my throbbing grey goose hangover.

Have you ever considered the posibility that that little ribbion is the best I can do? No, of course not. That would presuppose you had some respect for me as a person and since I'm not out chanting and villifying the poor guys and girls over there like you and your ilk I must be evil.

Kiss my ass. Everyone one of you.

Free speech works both ways, it isn't solely to protect you from the scorn you so richly deserve.