So what word *do* we use?

[Remec]

I just ran across an article on Yahoo! regarding a slur made by Ann Coulter and it started me wondering again.

I first had this thought come to me when reading about the flap over on "Grey's Anatomy" but wasn't sure whether to come in here and ask and, just maybe, look either stupid and/or bigoted.

But, anyways, I was always taught that female homosexuals were lesbians and males were faggots. Obviously, language has progressed since I first learned this and so I ask...is there an accepted term for a male homosexual or do you just say 'gay man'?

 

[impressive]

Clam chowder. *nods*

 

[S-Des]

I just ran across an article on Yahoo! regarding a slur made by Ann Coulter and it started me wondering again.

I first had this thought come to me when reading about the flap over on "Grey's Anatomy" but wasn't sure whether to come in here and ask and, just maybe, look either stupid and/or bigoted.

But, anyways, I was always taught that female homosexuals were lesbians and males were faggots. Obviously, language has progressed since I first learned this and so I ask...is there an accepted term for a male homosexual or do you just say 'gay man'?

She's a peach, isn't she? *shakes head* The sad thing is that she really feels that saying that is OK if it's only a joke. Since she doesn't run for anything or broadcast anywhere, she lives on controversy. Anything she says just serves to make her more known, which is her only goal. It's pathetic that she intentionally plays up to bigots (although I doubt she is actually one in real life). She pushes herself as a conservative, but she only serves to make conservatives look like morons.

I've never used that word that I can remember (or the N-word for that matter) because I was always taught they were offensive. I have used gay to describe men but not usually women (although I suppose it fits both). Since I never had any gay friends (male or female) in RL before coming here, I never had the chance to ask.

 

[Guest]

isn't it funny, the way we deal with words?
i associate with lesbian and i associate gay with being male. my gay friends can call me a dyke but 'you' can't. i hate the word faggot. it just sounds harsh and ugly to me.

i also think that each 'group' of people has a name that might be considered degrogatory on the outside but accepted on the inside. dyke, faggot... the 'n' word which i can't even bring myself to type out. (very ingrained)
good topic Remmy.


eta:
i cant stand ann coulter. quelle surprise. so i didnt even read the article.

 

[Darla_Darling]

I just ran across an article on Yahoo! regarding a slur made by Ann Coulter and it started me wondering again.

I first had this thought come to me when reading about the flap over on "Grey's Anatomy" but wasn't sure whether to come in here and ask and, just maybe, look either stupid and/or bigoted.

But, anyways, I was always taught that female homosexuals were lesbians and males were faggots. Obviously, language has progressed since I first learned this and so I ask...is there an accepted term for a male homosexual or do you just say 'gay man'?

It is now fairly acceptable to use the word "gay" colloquially as a noun. Generally, if you call someone a "gay", you are referring to a man. However, I think it would be most common to use the term "gay man". The word "queer" is often used to describe both gay men and women, and has lost most of its negative connotations.

Like any language, obviously, it is extremely dependent upon the context.

The way I see it, "faggot" is an appropriated slur, like "nigger" is to black Americans. For a gay man to call another a fag is a way of "taking away the power" of the epithet. To use an abusive word affectionately and ironically takes away its power to hurt. It's also a way of forging identity in defiance with the mainstream. If you actively identify with gay people, and are deeply entrenched in queer culture (whether gay or not) I think it's fine to call a friend a fag. I call my (gay) best friend a fag all the time and he just giggles. However, if I was with a group of co-workers who I didn't know very well, I wouldn't use the word "fag" because I know that not everyone feels the same way as I do, and some people might be hurt by it or misunderstand, and I wouldn't want to have to go out of my way to explain myself.

In any case, I don't think your question was stupid or bigoted.

 

[impressive]

i also think that each 'group' of people has a name that might be considered degrogatory on the outside but accepted on the inside. dyke, faggot... the 'n' word which i can't even bring myself to type out. (very ingrained)
good topic Remmy.

Yes, I agree.

In disability circles these days, "mental retardation" is considered offensive. I don't find it so, personally. It's descriptive to me. However, its use over the years in slurs like retard has made even its root a trigger for some. It was shortened to "MR" in most venues because, being written into federal regulations, it's terminology that's difficult to escape. New law and policy, as it emerges, is shifting toward the label "mental impairment." *shrug* Six of one, half dozen of another in my eyes. Already, I'm seeing that shortened to MI (and I've heard the derogatory m'imp used).

Those inclined toward intolerance, hatred, and/or bigotry will find a way to make any label into a slur. If in doubt, ask.

Kudos for asking, Rem.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Just an old straight's two-cents.

I use "lesbian" for females and "gay" for males. In today's culture, that's the only appropriate use for the word, "gay". To me, "gay male" is redundant.

That said, here's my rant for the day: I hate that usage.

Whoever first thought of that neologism made a mistake, IMHO. To me, it tends to perpetuate the stereotype of the light-hearted, limp-wristed, creative male homosexual. And when one considers the suicide rate among teenage homosexual males, to call them "gay" seems almost offensive.

But that is the current common usage and seems to meet with no other objections. So as one who believes every individual or group has a right to be called whatever they wish, I use it and will continue to do so.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[cloudy]

Like any language, obviously, it is extremely dependent upon the context.

The way I see it, "faggot" is an appropriated slur, like "nigger" is to black Americans. For a gay man to call another a fag is a way of "taking away the power" of the epithet. To use an abusive word affectionately and ironically takes away its power to hurt. It's also a way of forging identity in defiance with the mainstream. If you actively identify with gay people, and are deeply entrenched in queer culture (whether gay or not) I think it's fine to call a friend a fag. I call my (gay) best friend a fag all the time and he just giggles. However, if I was with a group of co-workers who I didn't know very well, I wouldn't use the word "fag" because I know that not everyone feels the same way as I do, and some people might be hurt by it or misunderstand, and I wouldn't want to have to go out of my way to explain myself.

In any case, I don't think your question was stupid or bigoted.

Sometimes this is true, yes.

I don't mind when friends use the word "squaw," but get very insulted when someone else does. You won't hear that word on the rez at all. (For those who don't know, it's an Algonquin word meaning "cunt")

 

[Guest]

Sometimes this is true, yes.

I don't mind when friends use the word "squaw," but get very insulted when someone else does. You won't hear that word on the rez at all. (For those who don't know, it's an Algonquin word meaning "cunt")

wow... i had no idea. we can be so damn ignorant. i think back to all the times i called you sumptuous squaw... well, you knew i meant it with affection and i cant make myself stop now. however, what if? what if i didn't know you and i was just teasing.
thats an eye opener.

 

[Fallenfromgrace]

Personally, i use 'gay' for both men and women who are homosexual.

i HATE the word 'dyke' i reallly realllly do. The only time i EVER use that word is to describe my hair- Spikey & Dykey *shrug*

The word lesbian also irk's me...like...'i am *A* lesbian' vs 'i am gay' why can't i just be 'i am lesbian' *shrug* i dont like the word anyway...i don't know, 'gay' covers it for me.

But Faggot i have always considered derogatory.

'Gaymo' is a favourite amongst my social circles.

My straight best friend uses 'gay' loosely- as if using the word 'lame' 'that song was gay' and i give her a look and she's like 'g-h-e-y!' i don't mind butshe wouldnt dare do it in front of others.

 

[cloudy]

wow... i had no idea. we can be so damn ignorant. i think back to all the times i called you sumptuous squaw... well, you knew i meant it with affection and i cant make myself stop now. however, what if? what if i didn't know you and i was just teasing.
thats an eye opener.

That's what I meant, babe. I don't mind when you use it.

 

[S-Des]

That said, here's my rant for the day: I hate that usage.

Whoever first thought of that neologism made a mistake, IMHO. To me, it tends to perpetuate the stereotype of the light-hearted, limp-wristed, creative male homosexual. And when one considers the suicide rate among teenage homosexual males, to call them "gay" seems almost offensive.

But that is the current common usage and seems to meet with no other objections. So as one who believes every individual or group has a right to be called whatever they wish, I use it and will continue to do so.

Rumple Foreskin

That is well said, Rumply. It was always used as an insult on the playground when I was growing up. I can't know for sure, but I always took it as meaning weak and effeminate, not an actual attack on your sexual preference. It's still used that way by people, the word has become a staple in our language. It's unfortunate, but unless a new word is decided on, it will always be used as a insult, a slur, and a description. I guess it's up to the recepient to decide which was intended.

 

[S-Des]

I don't mind when friends use the word "squaw," but get very insulted when someone else does. You won't hear that word on the rez at all. (For those who don't know, it's an Algonquin word meaning "cunt")

I had no idea either. I would never have used it because of hearing it used as an insult in old cowboy movies. I just assumed it would be taken as an insult by someone of Native American ancestry. Now I'm doubly glad I've never used it. Is it taken that way by other groups? Does the word appear in other dialects, or is it only in Algonquin?

 

[cloudy]

I had no idea either. I would never have used it because of hearing it used as an insult in old cowboy movies. I just assumed it would be taken as an insult by someone of Native American ancestry. Now I'm doubly glad I've never used it. Is it taken that way by other groups? Does the word appear in other dialects, or is it only in Algonquin?

It's familiar in Algonquin-based languages, but in Choctaw (Aztec-based), no. However, I would venture to say that just about any Native would hear it as an insult, due to it's wide usage.

 

[Liar]

But Faggot i have always considered derogatory.

I've always thought that "faggot" was an extraderogatory variation of the already derogatory "fag".

"Gay" seems to cover both genders for me. Although I also use "lesbian" as a non slur label.


But the thing is - I rarely use the terms at all. Because I find the whole concept of filing people into different piles based on who they fuck to be highly uninterresting. It says so very little about them as persons that the only time I'd say "He's gay" or "She's a lesbian" would be if someone specifically asked me "What is his/her sexual preferrence?".

And even then, I might find myself answering "She's into cuffs and spanking" rather than with what gender.

 

[Liar]

(For those who don't know, it's an Algonquin word meaning "cunt")

Huh. I thought it quite literally meant "prostitute".

Oh well, you learn something new every day.

 

[CharleyH]

I just ran across an article on Yahoo! regarding a slur made by Ann Coulter and it started me wondering again.

I first had this thought come to me when reading about the flap over on "Grey's Anatomy" but wasn't sure whether to come in here and ask and, just maybe, look either stupid and/or bigoted.

But, anyways, I was always taught that female homosexuals were lesbians and males were faggots. Obviously, language has progressed since I first learned this and so I ask...is there an accepted term for a male homosexual or do you just say 'gay man'?

Just to correct you? Males are fags, yes, but females are dykes (lesbian is such a web-porn and passe' word)

 

[Stella_Omega]

Just to correct you? Males are fags, yes, but females are dykes (lesbian is such a web-porn and passe' word)

I agree with your opinion here, Charley

The word "Lesbian" is like the word "vagina" IMO. Kinda prissy and removed. But that is ONLY my opinion, and most lesbians would not agree with me. The dykes, on the other hand- they would.
"Gay" is the most common word I hear for homosexual men (Another of those prissy words) and "fag" and "faggot" are pretty common.

I don't know if it's still common but in the late nineties, my kid's freinds used "gay" as at term meaning bad. I really hated that, and my son wouldn't let his friends use it that way. I haven't heard it lately.

 

[Darla_Darling]

I agree with your opinion here, Charley

The word "Lesbian" is like the word "vagina" IMO. Kinda prissy and removed. But that is ONLY my opinion, and most lesbians would not agree with me. The dykes, on the other hand- they would.
"Gay" is the most common word I hear for homosexual men (Another of those prissy words) and "fag" and "faggot" are pretty common.

I don't know if it's still common but in the late nineties, my kid's freinds used "gay" as at term meaning bad. I really hated that, and my son wouldn't let his friends use it that way. I haven't heard it lately.

About ten years ago, back when my brother was about 12 or 13, I overheard him having a go at some friends of his for using the word "fag". He said "Hey, watch what you say. My sister's best friend is a 'fag'." My heart swelled with pride.

 

[CharleyH]

my kid's freinds used "gay" as at term meaning bad. I really hated that.

Well Gay is not bad, but fruity these days ... hence HGTV! "THAT IS SO GAY!" (example - pink walls and orange sofas. ) It is so GAY! One can't argue it. It is certainly not "so dyke"!

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

To quote Stan Marsh from South Park

"That's GAY!. Liberace GAY."

 

[Tom Collins]

She's a peach, isn't she? *shakes head* The sad thing is that she really feels that saying that is OK if it's only a joke. Since she doesn't run for anything or broadcast anywhere, she lives on controversy. Anything she says just serves to make her more known, which is her only goal. It's pathetic that she intentionally plays up to bigots (although I doubt she is actually one in real life). She pushes herself as a conservative, but she only serves to make conservatives look like morons.

I've never used that word that I can remember (or the N-word for that matter) because I was always taught they were offensive. I have used gay to describe men but not usually women (although I suppose it fits both). Since I never had any gay friends (male or female) in RL before coming here, I never had the chance to ask.

I have to disagree with your assement that she's probably not an actual bigot, Des. I think she is, I mean, just look at her...

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070304/capt.ny10703040559.edwards_slur_ny107.jpg

That's just about the scariest smile I've seen since Tim Curry played in Stephen King's IT. Looks like she's about to bite someone...swear to God it does! Honestly, only a bigot could enjoy being hated/renound for their bigotry.

I did get a giggle out of what Edwards had to say about it though...

Edwards, a 2008 presidential contender and the party's 2004 vice presidential candidate, said Coulter's comments were "un-American and indefensible."

"Un-American and indefensible"? Indefensible, certainly, but un-American? *snort* This country was founded on bigotry and hate by. The pilgrams came here because they hated and were, in turn, hated. We fought for our independence because we hated the British and their king. The Declaration of Independance is one, long document filled with hypocritical bullshit if you read it the way they intended it to be read. We've had several internal wars caused by biogotry and hate, and one almost split the country in twain.

Bigotry and hate are the life's blood of this country and its government. We're a nation that's been divided for centries because so many people hate so many other people for superficial reasons, they're vocal about it, and other people hate them for it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I think that's a good thing, I'm just saying that's reality. And the thing is, right now its both PC and UnPC to be a hateful bigot. One group of people will rip you a new asshole for calling someone a faggot, but the other group will laud you for walking around with picket signs that read, "Silly faggot, dicks are for chicks!"

Frankly, none of it makes any sense to me. I understand it intellectually, but I'm not capable of the gut reaction needed to hate someone for something they're not responsible for. I'm reasonably sure that's grounds for institutionalization. For my own part, I just hope I never have to use the term "gender challenged" when referencing a transexual. There are already too many instances where PCness has gone way beyond reasonable.

 

[Dar~]

I actually laughed at her comment. I was watching it on the news. She said that she wouldn't insult the gay community by insinuating they were like John Edwards. Made me giggle.
that said, I am dyke. Lesbian is so flaky.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well Gay is not bad, but fruity these days ... hence HGTV! "THAT IS SO GAY!" (example - pink walls and orange sofas. ) It is so GAY! One can't argue it. It is certainly not "so dyke"!

AAAH my eyes are bleeding!

now, my bike chaps and boots- that's "so dyke"

 

[Tom Collins]

AAAH my eyes are bleeding!

now, my bike chaps and boots- that's "so dyke"

Hmmm...I'd've said "deliciously butch", but that's me.