So Sad and Senseless

[DVS]

double post

You weren't texting on the phone at the same time, were you?

 

[Ellafun]

So very sorry to hear this news. As the parent of teenagers, I have often, to my own children's embarassment, told their friends to call me, no matter what time of day or night, if they get into a situation where they are unable to drive. While I pray for the safety of my own children, and hope that they are not drinking, I know that some of their friends already are...and have their driver's licenses. I also fear for the "texting and driving" issues which I see happening more and more everyday. It's truly frightening; I have asked my son to lock his cell phone in the glove compartment when he is driving the car to avoid the temptation to be on it.

I have always questioned the lack of punishment in DUI/DWI cases involving serious injuries and/or fatalities. It just seems to be one of those legal areas that gets swept aside all too often. I hope your friend's family finds justice, and, more importantly, some peace. Prayers to you, and to them, in this time of sorrow.

 

[DVS]

Just a little rambling from me...
I don't drink that much, if at all. I think the last time I had a beer was about 6 months ago. I do enjoy a cold beer after mowing the yard. I also like a beer when eating Mexican food and sometimes with pizza.

I'm a social drinker, at best. I never drink too much, because I don't like getting drunk. I don't like the "out of control" feeling. I'm just a boring guy, I guess. So, I don't understand the desire to drink and drive. It's a variation of Russian Roulette with a 2 ton bullet. I'm the obvious choice for the designated driver. Maybe I should go into business.

I work nights, so I'm on the road a lot at night. On my way to work, I've been behind cars that were driven by someone who had probably been drinking. I've had to swerve out of the way of a few cars that I thought could have been a drunk behind the wheel. I've also seen far too many cars going down city streets in the night, without their headlights on. That's when it gets scary.

There was one time when I saw a car on the other side of the road and it looked like it was pulling a trailer. But when it passed, I realized it was another car, without its headlights turned on. There was no way I would have seen that car on the road. I could see someone easily pulling out in front of it.

And the cars with headlights that are on all of the time? GM cars used to be that way and some makers still might do it. I think it's stupid. They called them daytime running lights. The headlights were on all of the time. I think the idea behind it was to make cars more visible to oncoming traffic. The problem with daytime running lights is people get into the car at night, and the headlights come on, so they don't think about it. But, if they don't actually turn them on, they have no tail lights.

It's just as dangerous to pull up behind a car without tail lights. You might not see them until it's too late. If a car has daytime running lights, the tail lights should also come on. I think the daytime running lights deal was a stupid idea and I see a lot of cars on the road at night with no tail lights.

And if I'm elected...

 

[catalina_francisco]

You weren't texting on the phone at the same time, were you?

LOL, I am lucky to send one text every 2 years!!

Catalina

 

[IrisAlthea]

I´m so sorry, DVS!

 

[graceanne]

Wow. People like that...wow. He just didn't care anything about other people. Because I know he MUST have had his license revoked, and he probably had a Breathalyzer interlock installed. That means instead of getting a sober friend to drive for him, he just got them to blow in the machine and left. That's pathological.

Or it wasn't the car he had registered in his name. See if his car has a blow toy, or he the car isn't registered in his name, then the state wouldn't know he was driving a car without a blowtoy. And that's assuming he could even get a car with a blow toy. In Oregon after two DUI's your license is permanently revoked. You can't get it back, no matter what. Ever.

Many instances of drunk driving accidents could have been prevented by someone interfering. Today, with cell phones in almost every driver's pocket, reports of drunk drivers have gone up. These reports have saved an incalculable amount of lives by stopping a drunk driver before it was too late.

If you see what you suspect is a drunk driver and you have a phone available to you, do the right thing:

• Dial the local highway patrol or police department
• Get the license plate number of the car
• Let the authorities know that you suspect a drunk driver
• Give your location

It is worth those few minutes of your time to save that drunk driver from hurting themselves and/or others.

I'm the hugest narc when it comes to stuff like this. lol

We have all been there. You're at a bar, a party, or even a friends house when someone has had one too many and doesn't think twice about hitting the road. Drunk drivers are a risk to themselves, others, and even you. Do not just watch next time.

*The only way to prevent drunk drivers from getting on the road is to stop them in their tracks. If your friend looks like a potential drunk driver next time you are out together, stop them before they go too far. They will thank you for it, guaranteed.

And if you literally can't stop them use your phone and call the police. You can also mention it to your bartender, that your friend is too drunk and they're planning on driving.

Most drunk driving arrests happen because people simply were not thinking ahead. Many go out after work with some friends and toss a few back without thinking of how they will make it home afterwards. You can easily avoid a drunk driving arrest.

Next time you are going to have a few drinks, take an inventory of who you will be with. Among those people, there is bound to be someone who cannot drink that day for one reason or another. Don't be ashamed to ask straight-out for them to be your designated driver. If they are a friend, they won't mind at all and you will have taken out the possibility of a drunk driving arrest.

Or call a cab.

Most people think that if they have only had a few then they will be okay to get behind the wheel. The fact is, however, that a few usually turns into a few more and then a few more. Studies have recently proven that it is a drunk driving fact that your risks of accident increase with each drink you take.

If you never drink or drive you won't have to worry about this. I've found that people who've been drinking are either okay and telling the truth or not okay and lying to themselves. If you can't tell, then just assume you're lying to yourself and it won't be an issue.

 

[Essene]

Wow. People like that...wow. He just didn't care anything about other people. Because I know he MUST have had his license revoked, and he probably had a Breathalyzer interlock installed. That means instead of getting a sober friend to drive for him, he just got them to blow in the machine and left. That's pathological.

I can't recall all of the details, but it had been quite few years since his last offense. (His attorney listed this as a reason as to why the judge should let him out of jail - the judge said "no")I do believe that his license was suspended.

He was arrested in his driveway at home after a two mile, 20 mph police "chase". -Nearly hit a state trooper who was overseeing some roadwork.

He also had a new diagnosis of bipolar disorder, and his attorney was using it as an argument in order to request leniency.

Judge wasn't buying it.

 

[LearningSub]

Etoile's post reminded me of something (and I'm not aiming this at you, Etoile, or implying that you would do this), I've been wondering about for years. In American TV shows and movies it seems to be fairly common to drink and drive. At least to take a few glasses of wine with dinner or a scotch, a few beers, something like that, and then drive after that. I've been wondering, if it's really as common as the shows convey. I mean, I know it's not reality and all that, but it always strikes me odd.

For example, I watched the Gilmore Girls rerun the other day and remembered, how many times I had thought about this thing while watching it. The people on it are never visibly drunk when they drive, obviously, but they often have a couple of martinis and some wine on Friday night dinner, and then drive home after it.

I don't drink a lot myself, so I'm not sure how much is alcohol is ok when it comes to driving (legally, I mean), but it still seems weird to me, that something like that is shown on TV.

But I'm sorry for your friend's loss, DVS.

I've been bartending off and on for about 6 years now.. and I can say with absolute certainty that yes, it is as common as you see on TV. Drinking and driving sucks, and I have seen so much of it firsthand that it sickens me. I have taken keys from people, called cabs for people, and in general do as much as I can to get people to behave responsibly while at the bar (or while leaving it) but bartending is just glorified adult babysitting, most of the time.

As for drinking during dinner/ how much alcohol you can have legally.. the legal BAC in the United States is .08 percent. For an average person, this equals about one drink per hour. The rate that our bodies metabolize alcohol are about the same, no matter how high you think your 'tolerance' is. A fantastic rule of thumb, if you want to go hang out with your friends at the bar, is to limit yourself to one glass of beer/one mixed drink OR one glass of wine per hour, and alternate alcoholic drinks with a glass of water. Food also helps your body metabolize and absorb alcohol so for God's sake, eat something too. So, in short, if someone spends two hours or so over dinner, and has a glass of wine, they could feasibly be sober enough to drive, 'legally'. That being said, that doesn't mean that everyone would be ok to drive in that situation, because everyone is different.

DVS, I am so incredibly sorry to hear your friend's story, and to everyone else that has lost someone to drunk driving, I am sorry as well.

Drinking in and of itself is not evil. Not taking responsibility for your actions, is.

 

[DVS]

...too personal. Sorry.

 

[DVS]

I don't understand that these apps would even be offered. Actually, I'd personally see this as illegal and not something congress should ask to be removed. People can die as a result of this. What part of this don't people understand?

 

[Etoile]

I know of apps that alert you to police hideouts and red light cameras, but I've never seen one for drunk driving checkpoints - the ones I've seen have been for speeding and red light cameras. Trapster is an example.

 

[Tilia_Fondi]

Its awful to hear about this, I had a friend killed in a RTA by someone that (it was believed) had fallen asleep at the wheel but it couldn't be proven so the guy got off.

Recently an old friend of my husband was the one behind the wheel after both drinking and taking drugs. He drove through a small town and mounted the pavement killing a 16 year old girl and himself. My husband and I refused to attend his funeral as we were so disgusted by what he had done.

xx

 

[Kojote]

First I want to say that I am sorry for you DVS.
And second I’d like to tell you that this thread actually brought me to act a little different tonight.

Today I had a nightshift at the gas station (working there alongside my self-employment sometimes) and got one potentially squiffy driver buying another beer and getting back to the car.
I called the cops and dealt with the stress and they actually got him and pulled him out.

I think I wouldn’t have called them if I hadn’t read the thread before the shift.
He wasn’t terribly drunk. In fact he may have been only tired. But as it turned out he was clearly above the legal limit.

Just wanted to tell you that you made me think about the issue and correct my attitude a bit …

 

[Cattypuss]

First I want to say that I am sorry for you DVS.
And second I’d like to tell you that this thread actually brought me to act a little different tonight.

Today I had a nightshift at the gas station (working there alongside my self-employment sometimes) and got one potentially squiffy driver buying another beer and getting back to the car.
I called the cops and dealt with the stress and they actually got him and pulled him out.

I think I wouldn’t have called them if I hadn’t read the thread before the shift.
He wasn’t terribly drunk. In fact he may have been only tired. But as it turned out he was clearly above the legal limit.

Just wanted to tell you that you made me think about the issue and correct my attitude a bit …

Well done, Kojote.

In my ideal world people gas stations would not sell booze. I mean, you have to drive to get there... and drive to get back.

 

[DVS]

Well done, Kojote.

In my ideal world people gas stations would not sell booze. I mean, you have to drive to get there... and drive to get back.

Yes, that's true. But you know...the liquor stores would have issue with that, because it's basically the same thing with them. But it would be nice if gas stations were just gas stations so the attendant didn't have to worry about selling alcohol to customers buying their primary product. With the liquor store, that's all they do is sell liquor, so they should be more responsible about who they sell it to.

Today, we have lots of stores where you can get gas, food, and beer. I understand the need for such stores, but it's difficult to find people who care enough to call police or refuse to sell drunk people beer and lose a customer.

First I want to say that I am sorry for you DVS.
And second I’d like to tell you that this thread actually brought me to act a little different tonight.

Today I had a nightshift at the gas station (working there alongside my self-employment sometimes) and got one potentially squiffy driver buying another beer and getting back to the car.
I called the cops and dealt with the stress and they actually got him and pulled him out.

I think I wouldn’t have called them if I hadn’t read the thread before the shift.
He wasn’t terribly drunk. In fact he may have been only tired. But as it turned out he was clearly above the legal limit.

Just wanted to tell you that you made me think about the issue and correct my attitude a bit …

Thank you, Kojote. You may have saved someone's life.

 

[Tilia_Fondi]

Well done, Kojote.

In my ideal world people gas stations would not sell booze. I mean, you have to drive to get there... and drive to get back.

Do you live in the states? Can anyone tell me if you can buy booze in fuel stations in the UK? I can't think that i've ever seen it.

xx

 

[DVS]

Do you live in the states? Can anyone tell me if you can buy booze in fuel stations in the UK? I can't think that i've ever seen it.

xx

I don't know. I'm in the states. I don't think most places allow you to by liquor in filling stations (gas stations), but some of the larger stores you can purchase beer. They usually sell a lot of different things, somewhat like a small grocery store. It's the "one stop" craze we live in, these days.

And, I know laws differ between states. My city boarders on the Missouri/Kansas line and both states are very different in how they view beer and liquor sales. In Kansas, liquor laws are much different than in Missouri.

While the laws are slowly changing, with few exceptions, no "packaged liquor" alcohol can be sold on Sundays, in Kansas. Packaged liquor is going into a store, purchase a six pack or whatever and take it home. There are private clubs in some Kansas counties that are open whenever they want to be and I think they can sell to members whenever they are inside the club. But no product can be taken out of the club. A package liquor license is only in designated retail liquor stores. There are beer bars in Kansas that are open to the public like any other bar or dance club would be. But they all have to close at 2 AM.

In Missouri, it's very different.

There are slowly some things changing in Kansas as far as package sales are concerned, but they are slow in moving with the times. And the whole deal is somewhat stupid, because there are quite a few liquor stores that are on the Missouri state line of state line road. Yes, there is a state line road that has one side of the road in Kansas and one side of the road in Missouri. You can live in Kansas and go to one of these stores and purchase beer on Sunday.

Most bars in Missouri must close at 1:30 AM, but in Kansas City and St. Louis, many of them are allowed to remain open until 3 AM. And in one place, where musician's get together and jam unto early hours of the morning, sales are OK until 6 AM.

Kansas has recently changed their Sunday sales laws in some counties. In the Kansas City, KS county of Wyandotte, which has the NASCAR raceway as well as a rather large area of specialty restaurants near by at Village West, that I think now numbered at least 35 at last count and still growing, sales are possible on Sunday and not one of the designated holidays like Thanksgiving, Easter and Christmas. But, there are still some dry counties in the state of Kansas.

This was along the same lines as the concealed carry permits between the two states. There was a time a in the resent past, when concealed carry permits were allowed in Missouri, but the governor of Kansas said "for the safety of Kansas residents, she didn't see it was a good thing to allow concealed permit licenses".

For the safety of Kansas residents? Look at it from the robber's point of view. If you were going to rob someone, and all you had to do was to drive a few miles across a state line to Kansas and be assured you were the only guy with the gun, don't you think you'd think that was the thing to do? In Missouri, if you wanted to hold someone up, the odds were more likely the guy you were trying to rob could have a larger gun than you.

So finally, a few years ago, Kansas passed the concealed carry permit for residents. So now, the odds are more even and robbers don't have the advantage in either state. When someone pulls a gun to rob Kansas OR Missouri residents, he doesn't know if he will be the only one with a gun.

Yes, it's different living on a state line. Even when doing my taxes, each state has its own laws. If I owe Missouri $1, they want it sent. Last year, I had to do that. I wrote a check, purchased a 45 cent stamp and sent them their $1. This year, I owed Kansas $1. They don't want it, unless you at least owe them $5. It balances out, but if you live in one state and work in another, it can get complicated, as well as expensive. You have to do a return for both states.

 

[DVS]

I thought I'd update/finalize this thread. I talked to my friend yesterday. He said the suspect was convicted of second degree murder, armed criminal action, repetitive DWI and leaving the scene of an accident. He was sentenced to 35 years. He's required to serve 70% of that time before there's a chance for parole. At least he'll be old when he gets out.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thank you for the update, DVS. It's heartening to see justice served.

 

[the_pet]

I thought I'd update/finalize this thread. I talked to my friend yesterday. He said the suspect was convicted of second degree murder, armed criminal action, repetitive DWI and leaving the scene of an accident. He was sentenced to 35 years. He's required to serve 70% of that time before there's a chance for parole. At least he'll be old when he gets out.

Thank goodness this guy is off the streets, he would kill another eventually.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I'm glad he's locked up, but still so unsatisfying on so many levels. Obviously, for the family, something they will never get over. I would favor an ignition interlock system upon first conviction. That's a fine that is a deterrent on several levels. I assume in your friend's case, it may well have saved her.

Still, glad he won't be hurting anyone else. Thank you for the update, Devious.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I remember this thread from its inception, and not responding to it because I do so many DUI cases in my work. I'm doing one now, as a matter of fact. They provide a significant though not a majority portion of my income, but I'd gladly give that up if there were no more of them, even though almost all of mine are non-fatal, and quite a few not even accidents, just traffic stops resulting in a DUI arrest. I could never sit on a DUI jury. My father was an alcoholic, and I've seen and heard *way* too much about the results of impaired driving.

Thanks for the update, DVS.

 

[DVS]

I remember this thread from its inception, and not responding to it because I do so many DUI cases in my work. I'm doing one now, as a matter of fact. They provide a significant though not a majority portion of my income, but I'd gladly give that up if there were no more of them, even though almost all of mine are non-fatal, and quite a few not even accidents, just traffic stops resulting in a DUI arrest. I could never sit on a DUI jury. My father was an alcoholic, and I've seen and heard *way* too much about the results of impaired driving.

Thanks for the update, DVS.

What I didn't know and I still don't like is in both Kansas and Missouri, the first 2 DWI/DUI convictions are considered a misdemeanor. I'm sure the fine is hefty and all, but it seems to me that's just a slap on the wrist. It only takes once to kill someone while driving drunk and statistics prove that repeat offenses are common. That first conviction should be much harsher, and the second should make it next to impossible to get behind the wheel again, until they can prove they can stay sober. The third time...strip them naked and give them to a sadist to play with for a while. Oh, wouldn't that be fun?

Isn't there some pill or something that when taken, any alcohol consumed for a period of time makes you violently ill? Am I just making that up from my own splintered memory, or is there such a thing?

 

[seela]

Isn't there some pill or something that when taken, any alcohol consumed for a period of time makes you violently ill? Am I just making that up from my own splintered memory, or is there such a thing?

Yep. Antabuse. There are, or at least were in Finland, also capsules that can be put under your skin and if you drink you'll just be immediately puking your guts out. I remember a scene in a movie, where an alcoholic took the capsule off by himself, because he just wanted a drink so bad. But I don't think they use the capsules under skin anymore.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

What I didn't know and I still don't like is in both Kansas and Missouri, the first 2 DWI/DUI convictions are considered a misdemeanor. I'm sure the fine is hefty and all, but it seems to me that's just a slap on the wrist. It only takes once to kill someone while driving drunk and statistics prove that repeat offenses are common. That first conviction should be much harsher, and the second should make it next to impossible to get behind the wheel again, until they can prove they can stay sober. The third time...strip them naked and give them to a sadist to play with for a while. Oh, wouldn't that be fun?

Isn't there some pill or something that when taken, any alcohol consumed for a period of time makes you violently ill? Am I just making that up from my own splintered memory, or is there such a thing?

Most states, I believe, consider a first DUI/DWI *alone* to be a misdemeanor. From there, it varies on a second or subsequent conviction. There are, in many jurisdictions, also contributing factors that can take even a first offense to a felony, such as death or great bodily harm done to another person as a result of the DUI. In some of those jurisdictions, the charge would be modified to DUI-manslaughter or DUI-great bodily harm, which are normally felonies.

I do agree that the courts should have much harsher penalties available, even in the case of a first offense, considering the circumstances under which the DUI/DWI is incurred. Substantial property damage, or injury or death to others would, of course, be among those circumstances that would allow the courts to impose stiffer sanctions. A problem with that, these days, is that the legislatures of most states have set up mandatory sentencing guidelines - ostensibly to avoid improper variances in sentencing - that tie the hands of the courts to consider all the circumstances involved and sentence offenders appropriately. I understand the rationale behind the sentencing guidelines, but I do think that many legislatures have written them *too* well, so to speak, not allowing the courts sufficient discretion to determine appropriate sentences for each case according to its merits.