Snuff

[destinie21]

I'm writing a bit of a snuff piece none of the main characters die, however one of the characters is our friendly neighborhood assassin. Now Forensic science has always been of interest to me so I happen to know quite a bit about homicidal poison. Which one's are easily detected which ones decompose along with the body preventing discovery should the body be exhumed and so on.What I want to know is it worth it to make reference to such poison's in the story. I would need to add a lot more back story to explain the poisons but I think they would add a lot to the story, I for one am sick of reading guns and knives. Also I've been looking into medical homicide IE insulin to a non diabetic or interestingly enough a person can be poisoned with their own urine which I wont get into but the possibilities are endless. So tell me what you think I'll mull it over and decide

 

[MathGirl]

Now Forensic science has always been of interest to me so I happen to know quite a bit about homicidal poison.

Dear D,
I don't think I've ever heard of it being used, but my mother (who is a pharmacologist) says succinylcholine (Anectine) would be her choice. It paralyzes the muscles of respiration causing death by anoxia. It rapidly breaks down in the body into molecules which occur naturally. Only disadvantage is that it must be injected. Injection site might be detected on autopsy. A similar drug in used as part of the lethal injection cocktail for executions.
MG

 

[destinie21]

Mg,

I won't be using this particular posion but I thought you'd get a kick out of it.

Brucellosis, caught from infected goats, sheep, cattle, and dogs, is rare in the U.S. but a terrible cause of disease and chronic disability worldwide. Brucella organisms are very hard to grow or to demonstrate in tissue (i.e., you will make this diagnosis serologically; sensitive but not specific). Patients prevent with bacteremia and episodes of fever. Serology shows that many butchers and meat-workers have been infected. The infection may be acute or chronic, may involve a variety of organs (with a preference for the lymphoid tissue), produces a mix of abscesses and granulomas, and is very difficult to diagnose (especially if you do not think of it). Brucellosis is quite catching when inhaled and it was a component of U.S. bioweapons in the 1960's.

 

[destinie21]

Re: Re: Snuff

Dear D,
I don't think I've ever heard of it being used, but my mother (who is a pharmacologist) says succinylcholine (Anectine) would be her choice. It paralyzes the muscles of respiration causing death by anoxia. It rapidly breaks down in the body into molecules which occur naturally. Only disadvantage is that it must be injected. Injection site might be detected on autopsy. A similar drug in used as part of the lethal injection cocktail for executions.
MG

the injection site wouldn't prove to be a problem, the sites that would most often go unoticed in autopsy proceedings would be the hairline, between the fingers or toes and the buttocks at the point where it connects with the leg. All of these are nearly impossible to detect unless brusing occurs.

 

[MathGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Snuff

the injection site wouldn't prove to be a problem, the sites that would most often go unoticed in autopsy proceedings would be the hairline, between the fingers or toes and the buttocks at the point where it connects with the leg. All of these are nearly impossible to detect unless brusing occurs.

Actually, if poisoning by injection is suspected, those are the exact sites which are most closely examined. No, I haven't been watching "Quincy, ME."
MG

 

[Jenny _S]

Des,
Maybe you are going a little bit far with this. Look at it this way.
Assassination is a political crime in which one side disposes of a member of the opposite side. This can be done by poison, as you suggest, gun shot, cruise missile, strangulation and many other methods.

But all these methods have the same thing in common: some member of the other side is dead and in order for the assassination to be successful, the other side has to KNOW. Otherwise in six months or a year your assassin is back there again killing the person who took the last victim's place.

So finding a poison that is untraceable, undetectable, etc. is really counter productive.

Do you see where this goes?

 

[destinie21]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Snuff

Actually, if poisoning by injection is suspected, those are the exact sites which are most closely examined. No, I haven't been watching "Quincy, ME."
MG

Actually you're right those sites have been so over used they are the first to be inspected but it's hard to detect injection there and if injection wasn't suspected they wouldn't commonly look there. but Prehaps the armpit of the genitals then?
none of the books that I have advise on that.
I was toying with the idea of having the injection in the retina. But I have no idea if the eye brusies or how one would go about injecting something in the eye. There's a whole array of posions that veil or produce symptoms of other diseases.

 

[Jenny _S]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Snuff

I was toying with the idea of having the injection in the retina. But I have no idea if the eye brusies or how one would go about injecting something in the eye. There's a whole array of posions that veil or produce symptoms of other diseases.

You have four options, Des...
The eye is out because it bleeds profusly from even the slightest injury.

There are generally three types of injections: Intermuscular (IM), Interveneous (IV) and Subqutanious (SQ)

IV's would be difficult. You have to either have a couple of people to help you hold the victim down while you look for the vein or have the victim's consent and cooperation.

IM's have a different problem. Where do you put it. It has to be done in a fleshy place on the body like the buttocks or shoulder. It would be discovered.

SQ is a better solution because you can grab a chunk of skin anywhere and stab, squirt and it's done. But there is still a draw back: Time. SQ injections absorb slowly.

There is a forth type: Interperitanial where the needle pierces into the abdominal cavity. This hurts like hell! It also, again, absorbs rather slowly.

I refer back to my original thesis- You really want the other side to know you did it. As long as the assassin is long gone by the time poison is suspected, who cares?

 

[Wantonica]

I'm thinking you should not be wasting this story sustenance on a porn story. Assuming that is your intention; I could be wrong. It does amaze me how homicidal, forensic situations intrigue the subtle minds of "average" folks. I pass around wild books and movies to people, and they rave about them, as horrid as they are in comparison to the recipients.

Shrugs,
Wantonica

 

[Quasimodem]

... injection ...of the genitals then?

And just what, might one ask, is the vic. doing while the perp. is sticking a hypodermic needle into the vic.’s willie or yaya

 

[destinie21]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Snuff

You have four options, Des...
The eye is out because it bleeds profusely from even the slightest injury.

There are generally three types of injections: Inter muscular (IM), Intravenous (IV) and Subqutanious (SQ)

IV's would be difficult. You have to either have a couple of people to help you hold the victim down while you look for the vein or have the victim's consent and cooperation.

IM's have a different problem. Where do you put it. It has to be done in a fleshy place on the body like the buttocks or shoulder. It would be discovered.

SQ is a better solution because you can grab a chunk of skin anywhere and stab, squirt and it's done. But there is still a draw back: Time. SQ injections absorb slowly.

There is a forth type: Interperitanial where the needle pierces into the abdominal cavity. This hurts like hell! It also, again, absorbs rather slowly.

I refer back to my original thesis- You really want the other side to know you did it. As long as the assassin is long gone by the time poison is suspected, who cares?

I would ask how you know this but the pot never could question the kettle right?
The assassin in question is a hired gun so to speak. She has to make sure it's undetected because her "clients" wouldn't take to kindly to a foul up. Also this is not necessarily political yet. an assassin is nothing more than a murderer, however i must say there is a twist at the end of this tale. And it may very well be political in the end

 

[destinie21]

And just what, might one ask, is the vic. doing while the perp. is sticking a hypodermic needle into the vic.’s willie or yaya

screaming I imagine

 

[Jenny _S]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Snuff

I would ask how you know this but the pot never could question the kettle right?
The assassin in question is a hired gun so to speak. She has to make sure it's undetected because her "clients" wouldn't take to kindly to a foul up. Also this is not necessarily political yet. an assassin is nothing more than a murderer, however i must say there is a twist at the end of this tale. And it may very well be political in the end

Don't ask how I know, Des. I might actually tell you

My advice would be to forget injecting the victim. Without help it is a very risky method. Besides, there are other ways. Poison gas while he's sleeping, introduction of some pathogin in a box of chocolates or even intoduction of some slow acting poison introduced into his home water supply. These are all just as lethal and infinately safer, quieter and more sure.

 

[Quasimodem]

screaming I imagine

That best be fast acting shit . . . or, your sneaky murder becomes double homicide, one by poison and one by bludgeon.

 

[destinie21]

That best be fast acting shit . . . or, your sneaky murder becomes double homicide, one by poison and one by bludgeon.

Quasi may I introduce you to bdsm
the victim would obviously be restrained silly.

 

[Jenny _S]

Quasi may I introduce you to bdsm
the victim would obviously be restrained silly.

Hmmmm... That would leave marks, Des

 

[Quasimodem]

Quasi may I introduce you to bdsm
the victim would obviously be restrained silly.

None of that BEAT-Me, EAT-ME licorice whips and fluffy pink handcuff crap then, huh?

 

[destinie21]

Hmmmm... That would leave marks, Des

Yes that would leave marks but if the poison is absorbed slowly it might be days before the victim keels over. Who cares it the guy had a well known bdsm fetish? Anyway I think the best way to go may be ingested posion's Ie barrium salt white arsenic(which is actually to easily detected) but along those lines

 

[Jenny _S]

Yes that would leave marks but if the poison is absorbed slowly it might be days before the victim keels over. Who cares it the guy had a well known bdsm fetish? Anyway I think the best way to go may be ingested posion's Ie barrium salt white arsenic(which is actually to easily detected) but along those lines

What about mushrooms? Deathcap looks just like a Portabello and kills in about 6 hours and even if they know what it is, it's untreatable.

 

[Wantonica]

I missed out.

Smiles,
Wantonica

 

[TheEarl]

Mrs21: I actually like it if authors go into a bit of background on a subject that they're knowledgeable about. As long as they don't overdo it, then it's quite entertaining. I'd like to learn about poisons myself just to have background and detail in your story.

However that's JMO, so feel free to ignore it.

The Earl

 

[ffreak]

No one's mentioned the possibility that the 'assassin' is also a junkie - if that were the case, wouldn't an injection that just happened to also have something lethal go unquestioned?

-FF

 

[gauchecritic]

Assassin(ated) Ffreak.

Why not just inject nothing? I'm sure there must be a gas that is naturally built up in the blood which could cause rupture or embollism due to pressure.

What about a pressure hypo? or does that always bruise?

What about catching the vic. asleep and introducing the venom by drops into the buccle area? (between cheek and gum) good absorption and likely to swallow any remaining.

Or what about... oh just shoot the fucker.

Gauche

 

[oggbashan]

Recent TV detective plot: "She fucked him to death"

Nicotine (used as greenfly killer in garden) used inside condom as part of lubrication. Nicotine dissipates and no injection sites. If applied as nicotine patches would take about a square foot and be fairly obvious. Nicotine from insect killer or from soaked tobacco very effective lethal substance.

Don't try this at home, folks.

Og

PS. Villainess caught because mosquito bit victim and instantly died. Victim's blood in mosquito shows high level of nicotine. Moral: use insect repellent.

 

[destinie21]

Assassin(ated) Ffreak.

Why not just inject nothing? I'm sure there must be a gas that is naturally built up in the blood which could cause rupture or embollism due to pressure.

What about a pressure hypo? or does that always bruise?

What about catching the vic. asleep and introducing the venom by drops into the buccle area? (between cheek and gum) good absorption and likely to swallow any remaining.

Or what about... oh just shoot the fucker.

Gauche

Oh I could always have an air bubble injected into a vein and cause a stroke.