Smoke

[cloudy]

I don't give a shit if you smoke or not. I do give a shit if you smoke around me. I don't want to smell of smoke, nor do I want the room we're sharing to stink of smoke or my clothes to smell like an asstray. If that's what you want, find, but don't you dare force it on me. I don't want to breathe smoke, and I don't want to be set on fire. When I was six, a smoker, waving around her cigarette burned me and left a scar I have till this day.

Smoke in your own home as much as you like. I won't visit you and we'll both be happy.

And I'm fine with you havng an additude about how you're happy to die of cancer and all the rest. So long as I don't have to foot the bill. So when you get it, please be sure you don't up insurance premiums and that everything gets paid for out of your pocket. You knew the risks, you pay for the results.

As for Denis Leary...it makes perfect sense to me that he'd be your role model. I'm so glad you've found each other

I'm sorry, honestly, but your attitude doesn't sound a bit different than Leary's....just from the other side.

 

[Goldie Munro]

In Scotland they have banned smoking in all public places (like Ireland did) and I was in Edinburgh recently and I couldnt believe how cosmipolitan and cool and hip it was with tables and umbrellas outside - and I thought good one! LOL

 

[FallingToFly]

*shaking head*

Seriously, 3113... aren't the AHers supposed to be the kinder, gentler- wtfever?

Jesus wept- all these smokers saying that we're very understanding on nonsmokers, and we try to accede to their wishes and keep our bad habits AWAY from them... and then that? I'm enormously tempted to light up and blow it your way...

But my mama raised me with better manners than that, so I'll just say- I hope you have a long and healthy life, far away from me.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

No smoking
From Mary Snow
CNN - Wednesday, January 26, 2005 Posted: 5:53 PM EST (2253 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Banning smoking on company property is common. But Weyco in Michigan is banning workers from smoking altogether, even in the privacy of their homes.

The company is conducting mandatory testing to make sure employees are following the rules -- or else they're out.

It is more than a fight over smoking cigarettes. For former Weyco employee Cara Stiffler, quitting smoking is a fight about personal liberty.

"People shouldn't have to be forced to do something that they don't believe in as long as it's not going to hurt somebody," says Stiffler.

Stiffler and three other employees lost their jobs.

The medical benefits company says they resigned when they refused to take a breathalyzer test under new rules imposed on January 1.

Stiffler says she refused to stop smoking.

"I want to quit, but I want it to be on my terms, not someone forcing me to have to make that choice," she says.

The company says its ban on smoking is part of an overall wellness program that also encourages exercise. It says cutting medical insurance costs is one of the goals.

"This is an opportunity for employees at Wecyo to have the encouragement and incentive to stop a damaging habit," Weyco general counsel David Houston says.

Privacy advocates say the issue isn't about cigarettes.

"There is no law that prevents Weyco from doing this, but I think there's a problem when people can't do what they want to do in the privacy of their home," says Wendy Wagenhaim of the ACLU.

And the company says the issue is not privacy, but personal responsibility.

"There's not a liberty right or any other right to have any particular employment, and I think it's time for people in our country to start taking personal responsibility for many aspects of their life, including health care," Houston says.

But some question where a line can be drawn when it comes to people's health.

"Does it mean that you won't be able to sit in the sun because there is a possibility of skin cancer, or if you have children that there's an inherent danger in childbirth? Where does it go?" Wagenhaim asks.

 

[Hooper_X]

I couldn't care less if people smoke non-stop... in their homes. In public, however, the rest of us, whose sense of smell is more or less intact, are forced to smell it. If a technology is ever invented that would keep smoke in the tightly defined area of said smoker's personal space, then I'd have no objections.

 

[3113]

To Both Falling and Cloudy:

I'm sorry, honestly, but your attitude doesn't sound a bit different than Leary's....just from the other side.

Respectfully--and I do respect your opinion, Cloudy--no, it isn't. If I were Leary from the other side I would have insulted and mocked smokers. I would have turned them into cartoon characters and shown them to be worthless and idiotic, their arguments a bunch of shit.

I don't believe I did that, but I will apologize if anything I wrote came across as mocking smokers or making them look idiotic. I certainly don't approve of Leary's methods, nor do I wish to copy them.

Leary likes to mock, insult and kick-in-the-crotch anyone he perceives to be PC or a "do-gooder"--and he as a point that people stick their noses where they shouldn't, etc. But he also tars everyone in the "do-good" camp with the same brush. And he tends to set up straw-men to take down, cartoons of people with legitimate arguments rather than real people with real argument, beause cartoons are easier to destroy and stomp on. In this way, Leary belittles and destroys legitimate arguments along with those that may be out-of-proportion.

I don't much like that, whether it's a comedian doing it or a politician. I try not to do it myself. But I'm afraid that Leary does tend to poison the well. His additude can make those responding more defensive and caustic than they would be otherwise. It is never "Kind and gentle," open-minded or understanding.

I had an older cousin who died from smoking. It took a long time and was horrible to watch and he left my father, his best friend, devistated. We never asked him to stop smoking. We never preached to him, we never forced him to defend his smoking to us. We let him do what he wanted to do, and we stuck by him till the end.

How much more kind, gentle and understanding toward smokers would you like me to be?

 

[cloudy]

<snip> I don't believe I did that, but I will apologize if anything I wrote came across as mocking smokers or making them look idiotic. I certainly don't approve of Leary's methods, nor do I wish to copy them. <snip>

I'm truly sorry you were burned by a smoker when you were a child - one smoker, not all. I've smoked since I was around 14, and I don't recall a single instance when I've burned a child.

Calling an ashtray an "asstray" (unless that was a typo, and it may well have been) is rather insulting. And the last sentence where you express your opinion of smokers by rolling your eyes sort of negates any "kinder gentler" feelings you expressed in your second post.

Honestly? Give me a smoker any day over a rabid non-smoker. At least most of us try to respect the rights of others to smoke or not as they choose without resorting to the type of things I read in your post - yes, Leary is an asshole in his act, but he's a comedian, that's the way he gets his laughs. You may not think he's funny, but what Ari posted was meant that way.

 

[rgraham666]

I go outside, take a deep breath, and what do I get? A lung full of burned hydrocarbons!

Almost everyone drives a car. These vehicles spew out mega-tonnes of pollutants every year. You can smell them everywhere. It gets into our water and you can taste it there. And I really hate the smell.

I'll stop smoking when you stop driving.

 

[SeaCat]

Oh man what a thread. It sounds like my family in here.

My brother and my father are both Ex-Smokers. My mother smokes Ciggies and I smoke Cigars. (Either Garcia Vega Pannatellas or Minatures thank you very much.)

My mother was diagnosed with Bladder Cancer several years ago. The first thing the doctor and my father both said was it was because of her smoking. Oops, the Doc's partner did a bit of research and found that this type of Cancer has absolutely no linkage to smoking. It does however have a direct linkage to working with certain chemicals, which my mother did when she was in her teens. (Amines.)

Two years ago my brother and my father started in on me about my smoking. (My brother also started in on me about his religeon and how I should join it.) Then in quick succesion I went through almost losing my mother to a heart attack, a threat of Breast Cancer with my wife, (Turned out to be two cysts thankfully,) and three Hurricanes in quick succesion. When my parents came down to visit last winter my father surprised the hell out of me. He knows well my two vices. He showed up at the house with a rather expensive box of Cuban Cigars and a nice bottle of Tequila. (He shared the Tequila but not the Cigars.)

As he put it, I eat healthy, I excercise more than most and I'm actually in better shape than most, I am allowed my two vices.

As for my personal habits when I smoke? I don't smoke inside, and I rarely if ever smoke in a public place. About the only place I smoke now is my Patio. If I happen to have guests over and they join me on the patio I make sure I am down wind of them.

Cat

 

[FallingToFly]

Oh man what a thread. It sounds like my family in here.

My brother and my father are both Ex-Smokers. My mother smokes Ciggies and I smoke Cigars. (Either Garcia Vega Pannatellas or Minatures thank you very much.)

My mother was diagnosed with Bladder Cancer several years ago. The first thing the doctor and my father both said was it was because of her smoking. Oops, the Doc's partner did a bit of research and found that this type of Cancer has absolutely no linkage to smoking. It does however have a direct linkage to working with certain chemicals, which my mother did when she was in her teens. (Amines.)

Two years ago my brother and my father started in on me about my smoking. (My brother also started in on me about his religeon and how I should join it.) Then in quick succesion I went through almost losing my mother to a heart attack, a threat of Breast Cancer with my wife, (Turned out to be two cysts thankfully,) and three Hurricanes in quick succesion. When my parents came down to visit last winter my father surprised the hell out of me. He knows well my two vices. He showed up at the house with a rather expensive box of Cuban Cigars and a nice bottle of Tequila. (He shared the Tequila but not the Cigars.)

As he put it, I eat healthy, I excercise more than most and I'm actually in better shape than most, I am allowed my two vices.

As for my personal habits when I smoke? I don't smoke inside, and I rarely if ever smoke in a public place. About the only place I smoke now is my Patio. If I happen to have guests over and they join me on the patio I make sure I am down wind of them.

Cat

Thank you SeaCat, for the perspective.

I've tried all the other vices, some more than once. This one, well, at least I can live a normal life with. Some of the others that I tried, namely drinking and drugs, nearly killed me, and almost cost me others. I'm willing to play Russian roulette with my own life (a psychotherapist once told me my smoking is "passive suicide" because I see suicide as such a grievious sin against others) but not with my friends, my lovers, my children, or my horses. I nearly killed a good horse while doing something stupid once, and lost my only chance at having a certain man's child at the same time. I have enough blood on my hands without having a few beers and gettign behind a wheel- and how many virtuous non-smokers wouldn't think twice about doing that particular little dance?

 

[wazhazhe]

No smoking
From Mary Snow
CNN - Wednesday, January 26, 2005 Posted: 5:53 PM EST (2253 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Banning smoking on company property is common. But Weyco in Michigan is banning workers from smoking altogether, even in the privacy of their homes.
...

I can't imagine something like this could withstand a challenge in court.

 

[SeaCat]

Thank you SeaCat, for the perspective.

I've tried all the other vices, some more than once. This one, well, at least I can live a normal life with. Some of the others that I tried, namely drinking and drugs, nearly killed me, and almost cost me others. I'm willing to play Russian roulette with my own life (a psychotherapist once told me my smoking is "passive suicide" because I see suicide as such a grievious sin against others) but not with my friends, my lovers, my children, or my horses. I nearly killed a good horse while doing something stupid once, and lost my only chance at having a certain man's child at the same time. I have enough blood on my hands without having a few beers and gettign behind a wheel- and how many virtuous non-smokers wouldn't think twice about doing that particular little dance?

You know Failing, it's kind of interesting how people react to the issue of smoking. Yes I do understand the problems others have with second hand smoke. (My father has developed a bit of Asthma over the years and smoke is one of the things that triggers it.) I too have been in venues where second hand smoke has bothered me. (Yes it does bother us smokers.) The problem I have is how vehement the anti smoking crowd is.

I not too long ago had a young man in my care complaining bitterly about smokers and their second hand smoke. Yet he wasn't in my care because of something broughy on by smoke. Oh no he was in my care because he had managed o cut his foot on a bit of broken glass on a public beach then had the cut contaminated by E. Coli. Hello there, why no complaints about the person who littered on the beach and spread their broken glass about? Why no complaints about the person who allowed his/her child or pet to defecate on the beach. (Where do you think E.Coli is most commonly found?)

Yes I do know the risks I face as a smoker. I work in Oncology. I also see the risks associated with the polution in the air that we breath. I see the risks inherent in driving when half the people on the oads shouldn't even have a learners permit. I see the risks involved in working in a for profit hospital where they are trying to cut costs. (Believe me, if you have the choice go to a Non-Profit hospital.) I see the risks involved in living in a country where the criminal actually has more rights in court than you, the victim do.

In other words I know the risks I take, and I choose which ones I prefer.

Cat

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Actually, after a fine meal with a friend or friends, I often kinda wish I did smoke something. (I did used to smoke something in that situation, but not tobacco. ) It would't be cigs, because they are really not appealing at all. I've toyed with little cigars and stuff, and they are never as good as they seem like they might be. It's rather bizarre, but I've thought about a pipe - all those lovely rum-flavor and this- and that-flavored tobaccos . . .

Would they disappoint too?

Bidis?

I only want this in those occasional situations - I have no intention of becoming a regular smoker

 

[Lady_Kit]

Scotts, the maker of Miracle Grow and other lovely chemical products, also has a company wide non-smoking policy. Manditory testing is part of the cost of keeping a job with the company. Offenders are fired. One assumes that those who test postitive for Turff Builder with Weed Control or Grubb-X will get to stay with the company. As for the legality *shrugs* Ohio is a hire-at-will state, employers can mostly do what they like in terms of substance abuse policies. Employees who don't like the rules can quit.

In general smokers in Central Ohio also now enjoy an opportunity to spend more time outdoors while enjoying their cigs. Not too close to the entrance to any building, mind you, and God forbid you should even approach a resturant. Our money is probably contaminated anyway. Can't smoke in bars either. Besides, the folks in there are already working on their chosen self-destructive hobby; which they will then share with the rest of us by getting in their massivly polluting SUVs and driving around while drunk. Is it really true that if you smell second-hand smoke after consuming 8 beers, a 2 purple hooters, and 6 jello shots you'll puke?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for bans on things that have a stench and pollute the environment, and with that in mind can we add these folks to the list?

The spritzer girl at Macys Fine Scents counter; if she comes at me one more time with that bottle of the latest fragrance from Estee Lauder they may have to call in paramedics; for one of us.

Or how about the parents who leave dirty pampers in the in the Wal-Mart parking lot; do they not realize that those things take forever to decompose? How about drink boxes? Plastic bags that stick in trees like some weird kind of Spanish Moss, or Swifter floor cleaners, do people think that stuff just evaporates?

As to being polite smokers, its clear, at least from what they say in the papers, that we can't possibly be polite. We're selfish bitches, or bastards as the case may be, out to kill everyone. Personally, the only one I really have it in for is the chick who is sure that the Vanilla Bean footspray she uses so liberally covers the odor rising from just below her ankles. That not only makes me choke (I'm allergic to perfumes) it also makes me want to quickly leave business where she applied said footspray.

I realize that this isn't my space to rant, that I'm not part of the AH clique, and that most likely this post will fade into the woodwork, but, at least I've gotten this off my chest and can breathe a little easier.

--------------------------

PS
arienette, forgive me if I killed your thread. It often happens when I post.

 

[English Lady]

I've seen both my mum and my dad fight to give up smoking, and that in itself was enough to make sure I never took it up myself. My dad and his girlfriend now work in a pub, and i do worry about the second hand smoke - because I saw my Grandad die of cancer of throat cancer and it wasn't pretty.

I'm not going to tell you how hard it was seeing Grandad waste away to nothing, but I will tell you it hardened my resolve never, ever to smoke.

I'm very anti-smoking and I won't apologise for it.

I will cover my face when a smoker walks past, because the smoke makes my chest tighten (asthmatic here) and i will walk away if someone lights up at a bus stop, especially if I have my daughter with me.

I just don't want my little girl inhaling others smoke.

This is one of those debates which will never end and everone will get very defensive and insults will fly round. I'm not going to argue, it's not going to change anyones mind.

to stop smoking,a person has to want to. it doesn't matter if everyone around them wants them to stop, they've got to be determined to do it themselves.

I just hope it doesn't get to the level Zeb went to to persuade the smokers to not smoke, I just hope you don't have to see your relative die a slow, slow death caused by a smoking related disease before you work out it really, really, really isn't worth your money.




And I tell you what, if anyone wants to stop smoking we should have a support thread. My mum and dad gave up at the same time as their friends (my uncle had crippling emphasema or however it's spelt) and mum said that the support made it easier.

Anyone wants it, I'll start a stop smoking support thread

 

[Guest]

anyone gotta lite?

 

[scheherazade_79]

anyone gotta lite?

I have one that shoots up a bright green flame, if you still need it


I don't know... I can understand why people get pissy if they don't smoke and they're stuck in a smoky environment. I don't like other people's smoke in restaurants, but in pubs and clubs???? Come on! Smoking and drinking go together, damn it! I won't be going out half as much if Wales instigates a ban.

I think that what a lot of people forget is that keeping away from all smoke doesn't make you immortal. Something's going to get all of us in the end. Personally, I don't want to live to 150 to rot away in some old folks' home, having my arse wiped by strangers and not knowing what the hell day of the week it is. I'd prefer it if my body gave out before my mind did.

I don't know what the case is in other countries, but in the UK smokers pay so much in taxes on cigarettes that the money that goes back to the treasury could pay for the treatment of smoking-related diseases about four times over.

I like smokers. They're more mellow and comfortable with their own existence.
Strident non-smokers scare me.

 

[rgraham666]

Here in North America at least, I regard the stridency of the anti-smokers (as distinct from the non-smokers) as a facet of one of the two collective neuroses that affect us.

Specifically, our fear of death.

Death is not part of North American lives. We think it generally happens to others. We make sure that where ever possible death occurs out of our sight. We won't even use the 'death' or any of its derivatives. The person 'passed on', 'passed away', 'had an accident', is 'the dearly departed'. But no one dies.

I believe it's because we are part of the most powerful culture on earth. We've come to believe that nothing is beyond our power. And then death come along and shows how powerless we really are.

We want to deny that and so very many of us get very vocal about things we think will contribute to our deaths.

Our other collective neurosis is perfectionism but I'll rant about that some other time.

 

[English Lady]

I know i'm going to die, I'm quite aware it can happen to anyone at any time (mums boyfriend was fit and healthy, but that helped him not at all in the car crash) but I honestly don't understand why someone would want to increase their chances of dying of something awful.

I don't wanna die like my Grandad did...

I also realise some smokers hit it lucky and die simply of old age, but is it worth the risk? When I think about it, I decide no, no it's not.

And this is an honest question - how do smokers cope with the reality that passive smoking kills? I really don't think I could cope with that guilt every time I lit up.

I'm not trying to muck-stir, and if people think I am, I won't be offended if the question is ignored, I just honestly don't understand it.

 

[cloudy]

And this is an honest question - how do smokers cope with the reality that passive smoking kills? I really don't think I could cope with that guilt every time I lit up.

I'm not trying to muck-stir, and if people think I am, I won't be offended if the question is ignored, I just honestly don't understand it.

When I smoke outside, the "passive smoke" around me isn't near as harmful as the fumes from the car that just passed you.....yet, you don't cover your face when it goes by, do you?

I smoke outside. The smog in cities has more potential to kill you than a whiff of my cigarette smoke. That's why Rob and I have such a knee-jerk reaction to people who are not just non-smokers, but antismokers, as he says.

How do you deal with the guilt that that bus you rode on yesterday is putting out toxicants that all those children on the street breathe?

 

[Guest]

Passive smoking doesn't kill the person walking down the street. Don't you believe this refers to non-smokers living in the same home as the smoker?

I smoked when I started college. As a musician, one of the first things my voice teacher did was give me the option of continuing smoking or taking voice lessons. I chose music. Didn't have the extra money anyway, so it turned out well.

My husband and I were militant when our children were infants, especially in restaurants. Their lungs were so young, so unused to pollutants in the air. We were also careful when we went outside with them at that age.

Now? Our kids are strong, with healthy immune systems. They're hardy outside kids. They can handle walking by a smoker who is trying to catch a quick one on their work break without needlessly insulting them.

Legislating someone's choice of smoking in their home is a dangerous precedent. I understand if they test for illegal substances, but smoking?

The next thing they'll be doing is having weigh-ins at your workplace. If you're carrying some extra weight, your chances of heart disease and complications go up nearly as much as for smokers.

Is that next? If you aren't the perfect healthy size will you also be punished? Not allowed to visit the snack machine, for example. Glared at if you happen to have a non-diet Cola or a doughnut?

This is a frightening trend.

 

[rgraham666]

A perfect world demands a high price, sarahh.

 

[FallingToFly]

EL-

Like cloudy, I smoke ONLY outside. Also, considering that I'm hardly ever out in "public" (the closest I really get is being at the barn, and oh, wow, I might breathe on the horses accidentally) I get royally pissy when people start nattering on about secondhand smoke. Then again- I get royally twitchy and pissy about all sorts of things.

If you are sitting in a closed room with a smoker- hell yes the smoke irritates and affects you- it does it to US (most smokers, you'll find, won't smoke in a closed room or a poorly ventilated one, and I don't know any smoker who will smoke in a car without the windows at least cracked open to let the smoke escape) so why would we do that to you?

We try to be considerate to you- why don't all these anti-smokers just back the hell off of us for a while? Go pick on the crackheads, dammit!

 

[Guest]

A perfect world demands a high price, sarahh.

Thanks, Rob.

That must be why I'm so dang broke all the time.

 

[Samandiriel]

I'm smoking while I read this.