Smart Phone Encryption

[about_average]

BTW, this is only making the news because the encryption is turned on by default in the new OS versions.
Android (at least) has had encryption since v3.

 

[RobDownSouth]

i'm sure a lot of smart people thought the same way before 9-11.
and boston.

it's already pretty easy to set off an attack here in the u.s.
why make it even easier?

It's part of a slippery slope towards a "Papers, bitte" government.

 

[MichaelinChina]

i'm sure a lot of smart people thought the same way before 9-11.
and boston.

it's already pretty easy to set off an attack here in the u.s.
why make it even easier?

the FBI (or any security agency in most countries) wants access to your information..the web sites you visit, the images you post, or download..

If you are happy with that, then no problem.
I'd be worried what they might do with that evidence.
So, who watches the watchers? is a topical issue right now.

 

[pete]

the FBI (or any security agency in most countries) wants access to your information..the web sites you visit, the images you post, or download..

If you are happy with that, then no problem.
I'd be worried what they might do with that evidence.
So, who watches the watchers? is a topical issue right now.

what COULD they do with that evidence?

so i come here and post. so i browse some porn, or watch a video.
i really don't care what the fbi or nsa does with that knowledge.

surveillance has been going on for many, many years.
when people didn't know about it, they didn't care. now that they know, they're pissy about it.

when i order a steak at outback, i don't really give a fuck if this guy or that guy touched it, if it came on this truck or that truck, whatever. all that matters to me is that it's clean and medium rare when it hits my plate.

as long as the gov't doesn't interfere with my life, as long as they don't prevent me from doing what i like or want to do, then i don't really care if they're watching me do it.

 

[MichaelinChina]

what COULD they do with that evidence?

they could deport me.

so i come here and post. so i browse some porn, or watch a video.
i really don't care what the fbi or nsa does with that knowledge.

surveillance has been going on for many, many years.
when people didn't know about it, they didn't care. now that they know, they're pissy about it.

when i order a steak at outback, i don't really give a fuck if this guy or that guy touched it, if it came on this truck or that truck, whatever. all that matters to me is that it's clean and medium rare when it hits my plate.

So you are saying you don't care about cleanliness (touching the meat) nor the sociopolitical issues behind how that "medium rare" steak "hit" your plate?

as long as the gov't doesn't interfere with my life, as long as they don't prevent me from doing what i like or want to do, then i don't really care if they're watching me do it.

So, until the feds knock on your door one day and want to confiscate all your devices, you won't worry?

 

[pete]

So, until the feds knock on your door one day and want to confiscate all your devices, you won't worry?

not one bit.

people love to freak out histrionically about how we're a breath away from a police state, how zomg we're back in nazi germany, gaaahh!!1

but we're only about 17,568 steps away from that. to those fools i say: get a grip, pull up your pants, take your fucking latte and GTFO. seriously.

 

[about_average]

what COULD they do with that evidence?

so i come here and post. so i browse some porn, or watch a video.
i really don't care what the fbi or nsa does with that knowledge.

It could come to the point where people come to power who work on making porn illegal and making life miserable for anyone who's ever "used" porn. For the "good of society" they make everything you've looked at publicly associated with your name.

The "if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide" argument doesn't hold water.

 

[MichaelinChina]

not one bit.

people love to freak out histrionically about how we're a breath away from a police state, how zomg we're back in nazi germany, gaaahh!!1

but we're only about 17,568 steps away from that. to those fools i say: get a grip, pull up your pants, take your fucking latte and GTFO. seriously.

Already is a police state mate! It's just hegemony at work. The US of A is just as interested in your 'private info' as is the govt I am living under. Capitalist no different from 'communist'.

 

[pete]

It could come to the point where people come to power who work on making porn illegal and making life miserable for anyone who's ever "used" porn. For the "good of society" they make everything you've looked at publicly associated with your name.

it COULD come to that? ha, that's a paranoid stretch. and if you let paranoia dictate policy then that's as bad as being in a police state. which we're not, thankfully.

The "if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide" argument doesn't hold water.

actually that argument already holds quite a bit of water. do you get nervous when you see cops pulling drunk drivers off the road? no, because you're not drunk.
do you freak out when you pass thru the metal detector at airport security? no because you don't have a bomb strapped to your chest.

if i told you on your 40th birthday that the government has been looking thru your shit your entire life, what would it matter? the previous 40 yrs went by without a single problem from any sort of federal intrusion, they never messed with you one bit.

people want complete protection, and they want complete freedom too. you can't have both. so far they're doing a pretty decent balancing act. not perfect, but then again what is?

 

[MichaelinChina]

it COULD come to that? ha, that's a paranoid stretch. and if you let paranoia dictate policy then that's as bad as being in a police state. which we're not, thankfully.


actually that argument already holds quite a bit of water. do you get nervous when you see cops pulling drunk drivers off the road? no, because you're not drunk.
do you freak out when you pass thru the metal detector at airport security? no because you don't have a bomb strapped to your chest.

if i told you on your 40th birthday that the government has been looking thru your shit your entire life, what would it matter? the previous 40 yrs went by without a single problem from any sort of federal intrusion, they never messed with you one bit.

people want complete protection, and they want complete freedom too. you can't have both. so far they're doing a pretty decent balancing act. not perfect, but then again what is?

I guessed you haven't been reading the news reports of intrusion into privacy and arrest of so called 'ordinary people' with illicit images and texts, emails Facebook posts, Twitter etc?

 

[pete]

I guessed you haven't been reading the news reports of intrusion into privacy and arrest of so called 'ordinary people' with illicit images and texts, emails Facebook posts, Twitter etc?

dude if they were arresting people for porn, the entire country would shut down.

 

[about_average]

it COULD come to that? ha, that's a paranoid stretch. and if you let paranoia dictate policy then that's as bad as being in a police state. which we're not, thankfully.

It was meant merely as an example of what's legal today may not be tomorrow.
As for "not a police state", apparently you're unaware that if you're traveling with a large sum of money in cash, the police can seize it without arresting you or charging you with a crime and keep it. Odds of getting it back are extremely slim.

actually that argument already holds quite a bit of water. do you get nervous when you see cops pulling drunk drivers off the road? no, because you're not drunk.
do you freak out when you pass thru the metal detector at airport security? no because you don't have a bomb strapped to your chest.

Apples to oranges on the first, and pretty much on the second as well. I don't want the country treated like an airplane.

people want complete protection, and they want complete freedom too. you can't have both.

Not everyone wants complete protection. Personally I'd rather have freedom than protection.

 

[MichaelinChina]

dude if they were arresting people for porn, the entire country would shut down.

Of course they can't arrest everyone..just batches at a time, as they analyse the data. Most would be fines, but some have been jailed. Perhaps it's just a matter of time before they get to us.
Scared yet?

 

[MichaelinChina]

Not everyone wants complete protection. Personally I'd rather have freedom than protection.[/QUOTE]

Freedom to do what?

 

[about_average]

Not everyone wants complete protection. Personally I'd rather have freedom than protection.

Freedom to do what?

Well, be secure in my papers for one, since we're talking about that.

 

[MichaelinChina]

Well, be secure in my papers for one, since we're talking about that.

I'm sorry I must have missed something..papers?

 

[Ishmael]

So far we have not been provided with even ONE instance where access to any of that data pulled from a citizens electronic device has prevented a single instance of ANYTHING being prevented...................not ONCE.

Yet we are told that we should surrender all privacy's to the government so that they can 'protect' us.

How about they tighten AND enforce the immigration laws? How about they initiate enhanced observation of those groups/individuals that are most likely to be the cause of such terrorist efforts?

Why do we, the average citizens, have to surrender OUR freedoms so that the government can 'protect' us? Don't feed me that shit in one breath and then proclaim us a "free nation" in the next.

Ishmael

 

[RobDownSouth]

not one bit.

people love to freak out histrionically about how we're a breath away from a police state, how zomg we're back in nazi germany, gaaahh!!1

but we're only about 17,568 steps away from that. to those fools i say: get a grip, pull up your pants, take your fucking latte and GTFO. seriously.

You shoulda been around here circa 2003, in the halycon days of the failed Dubya regime. We had plenty of goosesteppers on this board...Nazi Vetteman, Nazi Forest_Gump and Nazi Ishmael come to mind...routinely questioning the patriotism of those who refused to kowtow to graven images of The Decider, and demanding unquestioned fealty to government edicts.

We've stepped back from that particular precipice, but don't fool yourself, we're an airplane crash away from the next government overreach.

 

[about_average]

I'm sorry I must have missed something..papers?

Looks like you did.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[pete]

We've stepped back from that particular precipice, but don't fool yourself, we're an airplane crash away from the next government overreach.

i guess that's the difference, i don't want to wait for the next one. one nightmare was enough for me, thanks.

Ish i think you're being naive, but i really don't have the time, energy or inclination to go back and forth on this. we disagree, that's it.

 

[unregistered]

 

[rosco rathbone]

Yeah, I"m going to take the word of the security agencies that this software is effective.

If you care about privacy, get rid of the phone.

 

[Sean]

So far we have not been provided with even ONE instance where access to any of that data pulled from a citizens electronic device has prevented a single instance of ANYTHING being prevented...................not ONCE.

Pretty much what some of us were saying about torturing prisoners in GITMO.

 

[eyer]

The point of Apple's and Google's encryption isn't specifically to keep law enforcement out of your bidnezz, it's to keep Apple and Google out of your bidnezz...

...before, Apple and Google had access to and recorded all that data, so the cops would come to them for it when they wanted a look. Now that Apple and Google have voluntarily barred themselves from that data (via encryption) and, obviously, can no longer record that data, it cuts them out of what's become a constitutional conflict between citizen and government.

startpage.com has handled the privacy issue in the same matter on the search engine side of the business: it employs Google's search engine technology but, unlike Google, it doesn't record what computer comes to it to search, thereby creating no record of what a computer searches for. Thus, cops have no information to warrant concerning what a startpage.com customer searches for.

Thus, the natural privacy solution is for service providers to simply not collect and record data at certain points - exactly what Apple and Goggle have now voluntarily barred themselves from doing in their new phones.

What government is truly upset about is that Apple and Google are no longer voluntarily providing back doors to customer information which law enforcement has grown so spoiled over.

I imagine within weeks, if not days, more legislation will be introduced with the specific intent of forcing private companies to make customer info more readily available to government control...

...and, as usual, the "national security" card will be heavily played in the continuing effort to get more Americans to help government spy on other Americans.

 

[eyer]

What government is truly upset about is that Apple and Google are no longer voluntarily providing back doors to customer information which law enforcement has grown so spoiled over.

I imagine within weeks, if not days, more legislation will be introduced with the specific intent of forcing private companies to make customer info more readily available to government control...

...and, as usual, the "national security" card will be heavily played in the continuing effort to get more Americans to help government spy on other Americans.

Well, that certainly didn't take long:

Holder urges tech companies to leave device backdoors open for police

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...es-to-leave-device-backdoors-open-for-police/

U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

U.S. law enforcement officials are urging Apple Inc. (AAPL) and Google Inc. (GOOG) to give authorities access to smartphone data that the companies have decided to block, and are weighing whether to appeal to executives or seek congressional legislation.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...erse-apple-android-data-locking-decision.html