Sleepyhead - feedback requested.

[lady moneypenny]

This story has just been posted a couple of weeks and I've recieved no real feedback on it. Would be grateful if you could cast your expert eyes over it as it's in a very different style to my other stories.

It's called Sleepyhead and I rather like it. What do you think.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=7271

 

[NCmVoyeur]

Re: Sleepyhead

I posted a quiet invitation for feedback yesterday, but haven't heard anything so far. I understand the curious feeling of knowing people are reading your story but saying nothing at all. Maybe it's a case of 'if you give feedback, you get feedback,' so here I am.

Your story has two features that generally I abhor in erotic writing: 1) use of the second person point of view and 2) non-existent character development (two traits that often seem to go hand-in-hand).

My objection to second person POV is that it's a restricted voice on the one hand, yet intended for general reading on the other. I find that confusing and annoying. SP POV (in the 'real world') is normally reserved for letters, which are not intended for general viewing. I can't think of a single book or short story I've read (outside of 'erotica') that uses SP POV. It is by design meant to be restricted and intimate. But story writing, by its nature, is intended for a general audience. To read a story in the second person is awkward for me, for I am not the 'you' of the story, so I feel excluded.

As to character, you've given the reader nothing to understand who these people are. Not an age, description, relationship. Is this typical sex play for them? Unique? Your prose and sexual detail are fine as far as they go, but you could set up the story a lot better.

Finally, you end with a paragraph that jars on my brain it's so illogical. "When I awake, my sheets are rumpled, my hair plastered to my head, I am confused, did I dream? Was it real? Were you here with me?" Oh, please. I'm a deep sleeper and have intense dreams. But even after my most alcohol-induced stupors, I've managed to differentiate between reality and dream. It's hard not to dismiss this character as a loon. How can one after awaking and reflection not differentiate between actual sex and a dream?

I haven't read your other stories, so I can't make comparisons. I hate to be critical on the first feedback effort. But thanks for writing and sharing.

 

[lady moneypenny]

Thanks for your feedback

Thanks for taking the time to read my story, It's indeed a shame that you did not take time to read the others that I think would be more up your street.

I would point out that there are many books, mainly autobiagraphical, that are second person point of view... for example Angela's Ashes. Though I do take on board that your comment was of course a personal viewpoint and this style of writing is not to everyone's taste.

With regard to the final paragraph, it was meant to allude to the ethereal nature of her awakening and the immediate questions which spring to mind when one awakes after such an episode. Not for one moment did I consider that somebody would take it literally.

Finally, I am thankful that not everyone shares your viewpoint and I add a quote from an email received via the story feedback feature.

Lady Moneypenny, I know not what others may have thought, but "Sleepyhead"
was exquisite. I do hope you enjoyed every moment as you wrote, for this,
to me, was Moneypenny at her leisure, reveling in her lust and revealing
that same lust. Yes, Moneypenny, you are very adept at teaching. I could
very easily see you in my minds eye, the lift of your hip and the
undulation of your stomach as you savored the pleasures.
This wasn't porn, this was Moneypenny.

For me, that last line made the story worthwhile...

 

[NCmVoyeur]

Point of View and Other Things

Well, I did say (though could have emphasized it more) that the sex as sex was good. Not all was negative.

However, if the intent in the last paragraph was to speak about that confused period when one first awakes, it seems to me you take the confusion well past that point.

"I rise from my bed, spend a few minutes changing the rumpled sheets, all the time trying to work out whether I had dreamt last night. As I turn to gather the sheets for the washing, I notice a lipstick on the floor, I stoop to pick it up and raise it to my nose and smile"

She's up, changing the sheets, walking around. Seconds I understand, but a few minutes? And you imply that she remained confused until she found the lipstick.


(BTW, Angela's Ashes is vintage first person POV. There may be some portions that shift view, but the main narrative as I recall is first person. E.g., an excerpt.

"Chapter IV

First Communion day is the happiest day of your life because of The Collection and James Cagney at the Lyric Cinema. The night before I was so excited I couldn't sleep till dawn. I'd still be sleeping if my grandmother hadn't come banging at the door.

Get up! Get up! Get that child outa the bed. Happiest day of his life an' him snorin' above in the bed.

I ran to the kitchen. Take off that shirt, she said. I took off the shirt and she pushed me into a tin tub of icy cold water. My mother scrubbed me, my grandmother scrubbed me. I was raw, I was red.

They dried me. They dressed me in my black velvet First Communion suit with the white frilly shirt, the short pants, the white stockings, the black patent leather shoes. Around my arm they tied a white satin bow and on my lapel they pinned the Sacred Heart of Jesus, a picture with blood dripping from it, flames erupting all around it and on top a nasty-looking crown of thorns."


The 'happiest day of your life' is the non-specific use of the second-person. But that doesn't make it second person POV. It's like saying 'the happiest day of one's life' or 'the happiest day of an Irish kid's life.'

But hooray for bringing up that book. Good erotica should borrow heavily from good literature.)

 

[SpankerSam]

Encouraging Words!!!

To many readers, there is no need to be so critical. I admire the writer for taking the time to entertain us with her stories. As a writer, I know just how much time and effort goes into a story. Some people will write and tell us how much they enjoyed the read. (And I enjoy Moneypenny's stories very much) Yet others will pick our story apart and tell us all the things we did wrong. To those I say, thanks for the input. Even your negative thoughts are welcome. But if you were really interested in making the story writing better, your reply would have been more suggestive or instructive. I can only assume that the person who replied so distructively to this story is a professional writer who has perfected the art of writing. and in his own way, just wants us all to be as perfect. But everyone who reads this should remember, this is a site for those who do not write professionally. It is a site for us to spread our wings and soar. if our story grips you, well then we did a good job. If it doesn't, well, maybe the next one will. To Moneypenny, I say, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. I enjoy reading your stories and woould like to see more. It doesn't matter if someone doesn't like them. I do.

 

[Whispersecret]

It's commendable for you, SpankerSam, to come to Moneypenny's defense. Every writer loves to have a fan come out in public and say how much they enjoyed our work. However, I must disagree with you about the need for criticism.

I see two reasons to ask for feedback. One is to get compliments. I worked hard on a story, and I think it's good. I want people to validate my opinion. We all want that. However, if that's ALL I want, I might as well just ask my mom and my friends to read it. Guaranteed positive feedback.

Some of us want to improve our writing skills, and it's unlikely that we'll be motivated to improve our writing if all we ever get is kudos. It's helpful to have other people (hopefully other writers) point out the problems they saw in our stories. The blinders will come off and we begin to see our stuff in a different light. What we intend to write and what others get from our writing are often two different things.

If you want to write in a vaccuum, that's fine. I'm not saying you MUST try to be the best writer you can be. Not everyone cares about it that much. However, if you're going to be ballsy enough to come here and ask people what they thought, you'd better be ballsy enough to listen to the "bad" as well as the good, even if you're only writing for fun.

I think that NCMVoyeur was perfectly fine in his critique. You can't always make suggestions to make a story better. For instance, what if the story is cliche? The most you can do is point out that the poolside wife and gardener plot has been done umpteen times. To suggest some other plot instead is pointless.

And he never said he didn't like the story. He just pointed out things that he didn't like. Those are two different things.

 

[lady moneypenny]

But did you read it whispersecret? Was it fair criticism? I was unsure of the style of writing, I have had some feedback that was positive, but felt that the story could be improved, but I was unsure how. That is why I asked for feedback. However, I felt that the feedback given by NCMVoyeur was unhelpful and a little harsh, I didn't feel the story to be that bad.

 

[NCmVoyeur]

Critiquing my Critique

I don't want the horse to start disintegrating here, but . .

I gave three critiques about the Lady MoneyPenney's story. 1) Second person POV leaves me feeling excluded as a reader (I still feel that way), 2) there could have been more character development to give me a better feel for the characters (I still feel that way, and I thought that was a fairly 'positive' suggestion, 3) and the last paragraph struck me as odd that the character was up, walking around, preparing to do laundry, but still appearently unsure whether she had had sex or merely dreamt it.

I admit that my tone on that last point took on a completely unnecessary sarcastic edge. That was wrong. I apologize.

 

[SpankerSam]

To all who read our stories and especially to NcmVoyeur and Whispersecret. I was not trying to imply that we want all great reviews for our writing effort. Without people letting us know how they feel, our stories would, like Whispersecret stated, be only our own personal pats on the back. We enjoy and encourage any and all types of replies to our story post. And NcmVoyeur, it was the sarcastic nature that i guess caused me to write the way i did. From the way you wrote your reply and your answer when Moneypenny brought up another author, it is obvious that you are a well read individual. You do bring up many interesting and important points in the writing of a good story. For that i thank you personally. For those who read our stories and especially for those who take the time to let us know how they enjoyed or disliked them, keep the comments flowing. Thanks to all

 

[Royal_Prince]

On the positive side, vague is okay. Sometimes the lack of character development can give (especially in an erotic story) the readers an opportunity to put themselves into the story. However for this to happen second person cannot be used. I’ve read second person stories before (only in cases where the subject matter REALLY entices me however, much to my dismay I usually loose interest after about one or two pages. But what it all boils down to is, it’s a matter of taste. If you enjoy writing, don’t give up! Everyone has the capability (no matter what the criticism is)

 

[Royal_Prince]

oh and that wasnt meant as a criticism good or bad to anyone

 

[Whispersecret]

I just scanned the story, Moneypenny. I still think NC was valid in his opinion. I don't agree with everything he said, however.

1. The sleepy confusion at the end of the story didn't bother me as much as it did him, BUT, I'd still reword it so that it doesn't seem like she's still wondering "a few minutes" later. Perhaps while she's in bed she could come to the conclusion that it was a dream, but then find the lipstick and realize she was wrong.

2. I still really, really don't like second person, and even more so, second person, present tense. I find reading stories in the present tense to be awkward. I can't explain why, but there's a repetitive feeling to the way sentences have to be structured when a story is in present tense.

Another reason I don't like second person, is when the writer describes him/herself, they can end up sounding conceited. For example, "You lift your head from its place in between my velvety pussy lips and gaze down upon the awesome sight before you." Here as the reader/narrator, I assume that the sight of "me" is awe inspiring. <wrinkles her nose>

3. The lack of character development didn't bother me. This was a single isolated scene. Also, it was second person, which sort of assumes a familiarity between the two participants. I saw no need for complete description or development of personalities. In a longer more involved story, character development is necessary, but not in this type of vignette.

4. Brush up on how to set up dialogue. You need to start a new paragraph when people speak. Use the quotation mark (")instead of the apostrophe ('). Coincidentally, I wrote a tutorial, "How To Make Your Characters Talk" in the Writer's Resource section of Lit. In it I try to cover how to punctuate dialogue and how to type it correctly into your manuscript.

5. You have quite a few run-on sentences. I know sometimes it's hard to catch those when you're in the writing mode, but look back later and try to weed them all out. If you send your stories to an editor, they should be able to help you.

6. I understood the lush feeling you were trying to convey, but I think you went a tad overboard in your adjectives and description. I do it too, so I'm no perfect writer, but do try to go back after you've written the first draft and pare down unnecessary words. You'll probably find your prose is cleaner and less heavy.

7. I'd also suggest altering the length of your sentences sometimes. When the action get's hot, shorten the sentences to really get the feeling of urgency across. Leave those long, lazy complicated sentences for the foreplay and the aftermath.

8. There were some phrases that I thought were very nice. ("...your cum is unleashed...," "...fizzing up quickly to the very edge of orgasm...," "the amusement...shines like neon in your eyes." (I would have substituted "glows" for "shines.")) Those are just a few.

I hope I was helpful, and not too brutal.

 

[lady moneypenny]

Now that's what I call feedback! *s*

 

[Whispersecret]

Glad to help.

Did you see where I typed "get's?" Oy vey! See? Told you I wasn't perfect. LOL

 

[NakdSalr]

Moneypenny:
I too dislike second person pov. I agree with most of what Whispersecret and NC have to say. However neither touched on the thing that I found troubling. While the character was unsure of the happenings during the "dream period," it is my experience that dreams are not so specific about details. Maybe one or two items are seen but the rest of the dream is seldom full of detail and therefore in the morning she should be fully aware that the session was real. I still liked the lipstick touch in the last line, and I don't think that is out of line being there. I think it just reinforces the fact that she wakes and knows beyond a doubt that it was real, inspite of how it felt during the act which could have been dreamlike.
I also agree that while we may be writing for fun and not to become professionals, we have to keep in mind that we are writing for readers and want the reader to understand what it is we are saying. We can only do that by good writing. We have writing rules so we say what we think we are saying.
Even through the rough crique your writing talent shows up, keep on writing!!!

 

[Kessler]

I must input that I am not a big fan of second person point of view either, however, I can say that the descriptive nature alone held my interest. "Sleepyhead" is a good story, and POV aside it still manages to stand on its own. I must agree with Voyeur the characterization does need some work, which is something not easily done in this style.

Moneypenny, I take my hat off too you for a first time attempt at something new. As the saying goes: "Nothing ventured. Nothing gained." Experimentation is a part of learning.

-Kessler