Skinny-dipping...

[Wantonica]

Hello,

I would like advice on how to help my man get over something.

Last weekend, we went to a party at a friend's home. My guy left earlier than I did, because he wanted to get the truck home and was tired from putting up a barn that day. Anyway, as the evening progressed, there were only 6 of us there still awake. The yard had a heated pool and the subject came up of going swimming, no suits, let's go anyway... you get the idea. We got undressed, sat in the pool with our drinks and hung out for a while.

The next day I told him about it, and he was furious. Here it is, five days later, and he still acts as though I cheated on him. Okay, I realize it was probably the wrong thing to do, but I am simply not ashamed of my body and came to the US from a place where entire families swam nude. So, I am having a hard time understanding why he feels as angry as he does. I can't say I'd have been thrilled if it was the other way around, however, he has done things before that upset me. Apparently, I'm more forgiving.

He says he is very disappointed in me and he is very concerned about the gossip... "His girlfriend gets naked without him." "She has a completely shaved nether region.", things along those lines. He says he is embarrassed, even if I am not.

This is putting a real damper on our relationship, and I'm just not sure how to help him feel better. Comparing it to the hot tub parties we sometimes attend, only in this case with a much bigger tub, didn't help much. We have discussed it for hours, but he always ends up angry again. He seems to believe everyone will think I'm a loose woman because of this. All I can do is shake my head and say, "It was a lousy skinny-dip!"

Thanks,
Wantonica

 

[ReadyOne]

My sympathy for you. Time to let time do it's heal work.

OTOH, this might be a sign of things to come. You've tried talking it out and haven't adapted to each other's moral attitude. Are there other places where you may have compatibility problems that you can't work out?

And if you can't reconcile and forgive now, how about later, when something else comes between you?

Sorry, both for your pain with him and my gloomy questions.

 

[ag2507]

Big RED Flag

You were honest. He should be building on that. Somewhere there is a deep seated insecurity and lack of trust in you. As a relationship can only be built on trust you have to get to the bottom of this: challenge him and if he can't or won't talk about it you have to look seriously at your options.

If there are any other incidents of possessiveness of unjustified jealousy then now may be thetimeto run, fast and far.

AG

 

[SexyChele]

Actually, I can understand where your man is coming from. Not judging you or anything, as it sounds as if you come from a culture where nudity among others close to you is accepted as a normal part of life.

I'm putting myself in your man's place. If my man were to do that, and I were not there, I would be upset. Call it jealousy, call it insecurity, call it whatever. I don't know that I would carry it on for a week or more, however. I would want to talk it out and work through it, so I think in that regard, your man is in the wrong.

Some people when in serious relationships, veiw their partner's body as somewhat their own. (Speaking as some one from the US here) When their partner willingly takes their clothes off, without a prior understanding, and not in the presence of their partner, it's viewed as sort of a giving away of something that is intimate between the couple. I'm willing to bet that had your man been there, he would have eagerly joined in and enjoyed himself. I think what is upsetting him is that he wasn't there. That's the point that would stick with me, if I were in his shoes. (Of course, I don't skinny-dip with anyone other than my S/O, so it's rather a moot point with me)

It sounds like a spur of the moment decision, perhaps one made with alcohol involved. To top it off, there might be cultural differences. Whatever it is, the need to talk is there. But I think a sensitivity to where he is coming from might help. I've had a partner in the past who thought nothing of public nudity. (Well, in small, intimate groups, not just walking down the street naked!) It didn't matter to him if I was there or not, or if I felt comfortable or not. It bugged me, and whenever we would talk about it, somehow it always ended up that I had the problem. I guess you can figure out why he is a "past" partner, huh?

I think you can get over this, but it takes communication and compassion. Ask him to explain exactly what feelings he is having and whatever he says don't discount them. It may come down to having an understanding for future events, such as, if every one is skinny dipping and he isn't there, you sit on the edge with your feet in the water, clothed. Depends on what you two agree on.

Whatever that agreement is, I wish you the best of luck!

 

[Wantonica]

ReadyOne,
Obviously, I'm the one who needs to adjust my moral attitude. Living in a small town, in a country where public nudity is frowned upon, causes me to be in the wrong here. I didn't see that at first, and was sorry for upsetting him, but not for committing the act. It took me a couple of days to be truly sorry for what I did, and to apologize for it. We are extremely compatible, and have always worked through other issues in a matter of a day or two. He said he forgave me, but he can't stop thinking about it, he is on eggshells waiting to see if someone mentions it to him, and he 'almost' feels as if he can't trust me. You have a good point about whether we will be able to work through things that come between us in the future, but as I said, we have never had a problem with that until this.

ag2507,
He did give me credit for being honest. Telling him was a given though, as we are always honest with one another, even if it proves to be painfully honest. He is not overly possessive or jealous. I really don't think the insecurity or lack of trust has to do with me. He was in a marriage with a woman who cheated on him, and I believe this incident brought up some of the hurt feelings from his past and has him wondering what else I might do. He has some fear to work through.

SexyChele,
You are perfectly on target, as usual. We have already come up with some agreements for future events. One is that we will leave parties together. He has a habit of leaving me when we go out, because when he is ready to go, he goes. He rarely minded me staying without him. Until now. Another is that I will be taking a swimming suit to the party we are going to next month with a pool.

We had prior discussions about nudity around others, and I thought I understood how he felt about it. He had a girlfriend once who was like your ex, always taking her clothes off, and he told me that everyone commented how lucky he was. He then said he didn't think it was so lucky. End of conversation. What did I get from that? He had a girlfriend, allowed her to be naked in public numerous times and stayed with her. (They broke up for other reasons.) His response when I brought this up now? "I wasn't planning on marrying her someday."

Also, his brother lives in the country and tends to have friends and relatives around the bonfire naked on weekends. We had decided not to attend any of these evenings, because my man didn't want to see his relatives naked. He asked me when we made the decision if I would get naked if we were out there with them. I said no. Why? Because the stories I had heard all contained sexual undertones, and I didn't want to be involved in any of that. With my no answer to that question, my man assumed we did not have to discuss the nudity issue further. He then was shocked when I did it in a different situation.

He has been nude in front of people at our home. This is okay, he says, because it was at home, I was there, he had asked them several times to leave so he could go to bed, and the only other female present didn't look.

So you see, we have been doing a lot of talking in the past few days, and are sorting through the entire nudity issue. I do understand now that he wants my body to be "only for him to see", as you pointed out. He did tell me if it was a group of only females, it may have been different, but I don't even plan to find out if that is true or not!

Thanks to all of you for answering me. I do believe time will help him get over this. In the meantime, we'll keep talking and working through it, and I hope no one teases him about it, or me in front of him. Then it will probably start all over!

Hugs,
Wantonica

 

[DuckLover]

I'm glad to hear that the two of you seem to have come to an understanding.

I was a little piqued by your comment that the swimming pool incident was similar to hot tub parties you both had attended. Were those nude hot tub parties? If so, than I'd say you were probably justified in believing that it was ok for you to skinny-dip. If they weren't nude hottubbing, than I am missing the similarity and the situation is more abiguous.

I hope you and your guy are able to put this event in the past and move on effectively. Having clear understanding and expectation of each other will be the key.

 

[Wantonica]

DuckLover
No, the hot tub parties were not nude ones, but skimpy suits on hot women. You are probably right, I was pulling at straws. In the tub, we were all touching bodies, however, and in my situation, it was a 15'x15' heated pool. No contact. That was my point.

Happy evening,
Wantonica

 

[SexyGiggles]

DuckLover
No, the hot tub parties were not nude ones, but skimpy suits on hot women. You are probably right, I was pulling at straws. In the tub, we were all touching bodies, however, and in my situation, it was a 15'x15' heated pool. No contact. That was my point.

Yes, but in the hot tub parties you were both there...in this situation, he wasn't there.

Had you ever previously discussed any "ground rules" should one of you find yourself in this situation? Perhaps this would be a good time to have some communication about this -- what to do in the future, and what bothers him about this incident.

Good luck!

 

[PinkOrchid]

 

[Wantonica]

SexyGiggles, thank you for that, but scroll up a bit. By the way, when I said "touching bodies" in the hot tub, I meant it in a non-sexual manner. If anyone is interested, I'll have an update tomorrow. (It is worse, not better, but making progress.)

Hugs,
Wantonica

 

[Wantonica]

Can you tell us more about the relationship? How long you have been together, how things are going otherwise, things like that?

We have been together 3 years, living together 2 1/2 of those. We are 37 (me) and 40 (him). Both of us had very bad marriages. Our spouses cheated, mine also beat me. We have no children living with us, we like all the same things, and until this incident were blissful, aside from normal stress factors: ex-spouses, children, minor work and financial issues, etc. Hope that helps, I appreciate any advice. I am unable to understand his inability to realize my side of this. It won't ever happen again, but I am being made to feel as if the relationship is on the rocks now, even though he tells me "he'll get over it eventually". He says I have a big checkmark against me. I believe I'm hurting more than him at this point.

Thanks,
Wantonica

 

[Weird Harold]

Both of us had very bad marriages. Our spouses cheated, mine also beat me. We have no children living with us, we like all the same things, and until this incident were blissful, aside from normal stress factors: ex-spouses, children, minor work and financial issues, etc.

It's probably a painful line of communication for him, but I suspect your actions are an echo of something his ex-wife did and digging out that old pain and disapating it might help him realize the difference between you and her.

 

[Eightdegrees]

Really this sounds like something you just need to let lie if you can and if he'll let you. I know women usually feel that you have to talk every problem out but there are times when both viewpoints are completly understandable and justified yet so far apart as to not be reconciled. This is one of those times. I'm not saying just ignore it and it'll go away but I'm saying whoever said time heals all wounds was almost right. Time and emotional distance will do it. To get emotional distance the two of you have to stop talking and thinking about it.

Also one very important question. Where these friends guy friends of his? If so his problem is probably mainly the shit he's taking from them about seeing you naked. Guys are like that.

 

[BlueElf]

Wheeeee

*runs around nekkid and jumps in the pool*

Ker-SPLASH!

I know that doesn't help you with your situation, Wantonica but I just felt the need to do it!

BlueElf, the elf with a sexy blue butt

 

[Lust Engine]

I'm inclined to agree with most of the people here that it is his insecurity but for you, do you ever really feel the need to go skinny dipping again knowing it'd upset him?

I think Harold might've hit the nail onthe head by saying that it probably dredges up an old scar. He might not want to discuss it even but knowing his pain from it... I don't see the need to open it up again. I think there's a healthy compromise attainable here.

You could avoid skinny dipping altogether or if you do, don't ever let him know about it. It's not about lying to him... it's just being selective with the truth. I know it sounds as though I'm splitting hairs here about the truth but he really doesn't need to know your every waking moment. You know his bounds & his limitations now. I'm sorry to hear that he blew up over it and it forced a confrontation over it. A little diplomacy on his part about his discomfort might've set you in an easier place to discuss things too.

But as is with any relationship- it's all about compromise & I really think you can pull it off.

Good luck.

 

[Wantonica]

WeirdHarold
You are absolutely right. He has mentioned several times that he has been through situations in the past where he thought he knew a whole story and found out later there was more to it. He worries about hearing stories that have been twisted to make the incident seem like more than it was, and fears his belief in such gossip. In other words, he knows I have told him everything, but his mind is swayed by past memories.

Eightdegrees
I am not the one who feels the need to talk about it every evening. He usually makes a snide comment, which leads to a discussion. For example, he asks me to go fishing with him, then asks me if I can manage to keep my clothes on while we are around the water. Obviously, he needs to talk through it. We have always held lengthy conversations, so this isn't so unusual. I understand it isn't necessarily possible to have parallel viewpoints, but believe you can compromise on them (reconcile them, if you will). He hasn't gotten shit about anyone seeing me naked, but is afraid he will as it goes through the channels. Were they his friends? Two of them we have known for quite some time: a female and a male. The others were casual acquaintances.

BlueElf
I always thought you were a nice guy, but am now adding the word *insensitive* to your profile. Just kidding, I needed a giggle.

LustEngine
No, I do not have the desire to skinny-dip again. I couldn't keep it from him if it did happen, since we tell each other everything, and this is not a moment in my life I wish to repeat.

Again, thank you all for your comments and support. Now, for my update. Last night we had a full-blown argument about this. He vented on me about things such as: "How could you do that with a girl who has a bad reputation?" and "How could you do that in front of a guy that will brag to everyone about seeing you?". He tore apart little things I do that annoy him. He told me it would be longer now until he asked me to marry him. Then, he patted my leg and told me everything would be okay. Well, I was angry. I have been trying to be sensitive to him, and felt attacked. This morning, I was still angry. I've come to the conclusion that he is being completely unreasonable and told him I didn't want to discuss the situation anymore. I said he needs to get over this on his own, and if not, I'd be rethinking our relationship. So, now I wait. His son is spending the weekend, so we won't be able to talk about it for a couple of days anyway.

Thanks again,
Wantonica

 

[PinkOrchid]

 

[Wantonica]

And don't forget, anger is merely a cover for a more tender emotion (usually some kind of pain or shame). So deal with the underlying problem, not the anger, and do everything you can to change his expression from anger to the other stuff. It's probably very painful for him, so walk gently and be compassionate, but also be firm and don't allow him to drag you into the anger with him. It's hard enough for one person to crawl out of a hole, and if you both fall in, you'll need a counselor's helping hand to pull you both out.

Thanks, PinkOrchid. You may have missed my post just before yours, since we were writing them at about the same time. You'll notice that I was beginning to express anger too, and you helped me realize how detrimental that would be right now. Perhaps having a youngster around this weekend will be really good for us. We can concentrate on other things. I'll try to figure out how to work on his other issues, so we don't have them interfere with 'us' again.

Smiles,
Wantonica

 

[DuckLover]

I'm glad that you are still feeling sufficiently comfortable with us to continue discussing the issue you're facing. It's important, I believe, to have an outlet for venting.

Given the apparent depth and strength of the emotion brought on by the situation, particularly his dichotomous attacks and reassurances, I suspect that seeing a professional counselor could help. Couples counseling would be ideal, but even individual sessions could be useful. The counselor would be able to help you two address the "old wounds" which seem to be grossly exacerbating the problem. You might not even need more than two or three sessions-- just having the starting point, the agreement to discuss the issue calmly, may be enough.

If things don't improve after his son leaves, than I would seriously consider seeking professional assistance. Remember-- it's completely confidential; nobody can even admit that you've gone!

 

[BTK51]

Nothing eye-opening but for the record:

As a guy (from the US) I would be upset too. Hearing your side and being objective and univolved, I see it as an explainable miscommunication. I am sure that you have said all this to him (and hopefully he heard it when you did) and more. Although it may seem like a long time to you two, it has been a relatively short time since it happened. The break may be a good cooling down period giving both of you time to think it through. Even if there is nothing else to add, time may be your biggest ally.

The one upsetting part to me was the emotional blackmail of "...would be longer now until he asked me to marry him." I have a real sore point for that sort of thing in a relationship, and personally, consider it one of the cruelest, most selfish things that you can do. Ashamedly, I've said things like that in the heat of an argument, and felt like such a low slime ball after I calmed down. I couldn't believe the words came out of my mouth. It has been rare, but has happened. Assuming that this isn't a common practice, it probably comes from DEEP, DEEP hurt or frustration.

My suspicion is that it has less to do with your actions then it has to do with something that he is wrestling with. As already stated, be supportive, but don't be walked on. He needs to recognize that the point has been made, the compromise has been established, you've apologized, you'll be there for him and it's time to move on and learn from this experience. If he really cares about you (which I'm sure he does) you can grow closer from this experience.

Just so that you can put the proper value on this advice, I got a C+ in Intro to Psychology in college - the only Psych course I ever took.


PS Tell him that maybe he'll have to wait longer for an answer when he does ask.

 

[Gods_Favorite]

I'm just curious what country are you from?

 

[Wantonica]

I'm just curious what country are you from?

I came here from Germany and lived by a remote lake where everyone hung out nude. It wasn't legal, but the police stopped by to chat and allowed it. Young children generally ran around in summer without clothing in the heat of summer (at home, in the garden, etc.)... my childhood pictures are evidence of this. When my own children went there with me, we had to convince them, at 3 and 5, that it was okay to take your clothes off when it was hot. They were raised in the US, after all. If I got on a train with a see-through shirt and no bra, no one would gawk. Sorry, that was a generalization of an entire population... in my experience, it was 'normal' to do things like that.

BTK51

Thanks for your input, I'll respond tomorrow. Just cleaning up the mail basket right now.

Happiness,
Wantonica

 

[Lust Engine]

Seeing as how there's a hiatus in the entire situation now, it could be a good thing for both parties involved. Anger is good if it's released & aired. Now that you've both gotten some of that latent ugliness out of your system my hope is that you guys can both come to a happy compromise.

And IMHO, the thing about having to wait longer for a proposal is a crock. That sounds more like emotional blackmail. That's bothersome to hear. I can understand his anger & your resentment back but to pull that old "I'm not going to marry you, because..." schtick is sad. Don't pull out that kind of ultimatum if you're not going to act on it. It's childish and maybe he said it out of anger & frustration but I've always thought that to be holding someone hostage.

However it works out, I still wish you the best. You've always been a wonderful & thoughtful poster here on Lit & are to be cherished. My best wishes.

 

[ScottyBoy900Q]

I can understand why you would have done the skinnydipping thing seeing as how many people all over the world have no problems with it. but it also seems to me that you arent taking your boyfriends feelings into consideration. maybe look at where he is coming from though. and if he does mean a lot to you, then take his thoughts into consideration. maybe you dont have a problem just getting naked, but thats just you. after reading your post it seems like youre just worried about what you want to do. granted, i dont know you so i may be making this up in my head, but if he's been upset about it for more than just a day or two, then he must really be upset about it, and that would make me rethink the idea.

 

[sheath]

And IMHO, the thing about having to wait longer for a proposal is a crock. That sounds more like emotional blackmail. That's bothersome to hear. I can understand his anger & your resentment back but to pull that old "I'm not going to marry you, because..." schtick is sad. Don't pull out that kind of ultimatum if you're not going to act on it. It's childish and maybe he said it out of anger & frustration but I've always thought that to be holding someone hostage.

True, LE. But he was the one who threw that little wrench out first, and that indicates to me that he's dealing with much deeper issues in the relationship than just the skinny-dipping.

Wantonica: Why do you think would he go to that length, to actually question your entire future together? Having a problem with one incident is something that every couple goes through at some point. But do arguments always escalate to holding future happiness over your head?

I've read through this thread a few times, thought about it for a while, and the only advice I can offer...especially after the 'it will take longer to ask you to marry me' stunt...is that he needs counseling. Very soon. He's suddenly gone from dealing with the problem to letting it creep into the very substance of your life together. To me, that would be a BIG red flag.

It sounds almost like he's baiting you, as if he's wanting to test your devotion. After three blissful years together, testing your devotion over one simple problem is a HUGE crock of bullshit. I'm sorry if that's harsh, but IMHO questioning the larger future of his relationship with you is going WAY overboard on his part. I would make an appointment with a counselor, ask him to go, and if he refuses, go by yourself.

Best of luck to you...

S.