Should?
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Madame Pandora
Deliciously Aware of Impending Sins
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Yes
CelestialBody
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Juliangel
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CelestialBody
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desireswithin
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YES, Pete Rose should definitely be in the Baseball Hall of Fame. I have a picture on my refrigerator of Dallas Green holding up Pete's #14 Jersey at a reunion honoring the 1980 World Series-winning Phillies. He gave 110% while he was playing first base for that team. As far as I'm concerned, what he did in his private life is just that, private. He didn't harm anyone or cause anyone to lose a game. YES, YES, YES, he belongs in Cooperstown with the other heroes of baseball.
KillerMuffin
Seraphically Disinclined
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Yes. Last I checked you got into the Hall of Fame by playing damned good Baseball. Other Hall of Famers are just as spotted in past, but they got in anyway. Someone decided to make an example of him.
Madame Pandora
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Bs said:
You mean the 11th INNING?
MP
Very sore subject for me....Yes I think Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame. In the world of professional athletics players are forgiven for beating their wives, using drugs, etc... So why not Pete Rose???? For Christ sake he bet on the game of baseball... We are quick to forgive the drug users, the wife abusers yet....we can't forgive someone who gambled!!!!
During one of the All Star games when they announced the All Century Team, Pete got the biggest ovation over greats like Ted Williams, Hank Aaron... He did so much for the game when he was playing....
So what does that say???? That the fans (the majority) have forgiven "Charlie Hustle",...and that the sportswriters & commissioner of baseball (the minority)have not.....The fans are the ones who make the game go....the fans should have a say in who gets to go into the Hall of Fame.....
During one of the All Star games when they announced the All Century Team, Pete got the biggest ovation over greats like Ted Williams, Hank Aaron... He did so much for the game when he was playing....
So what does that say???? That the fans (the majority) have forgiven "Charlie Hustle",...and that the sportswriters & commissioner of baseball (the minority)have not.....The fans are the ones who make the game go....the fans should have a say in who gets to go into the Hall of Fame.....
teresafannin
One who hears the Music
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Yes, when he was playing, Pete Rose gave his all. What he did after he retired should not affect an amazing career. I also think the fans should have a say in who goes into The Hall of Fame.
Madame Pandora
Deliciously Aware of Impending Sins
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teresafannin !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just realized you took the title I suggested for your 1000th!!! WOW!!! Too cool ;-)
I KNEW that was your color ;-) It looks good on you.
MP
I just realized you took the title I suggested for your 1000th!!! WOW!!! Too cool ;-)
I KNEW that was your color ;-) It looks good on you.
MP
teresafannin
One who hears the Music
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Hello MP, I should have thanked you for the title. I got some really good suggestions, but your idea grabbed me right from the start. I just kind of let Laurel put it up & didn't say anything. I also should have thanked everyone for their ideas, so will do so now. Many thanks to all of you.
We now return you to our previous discussion.
We now return you to our previous discussion.
Miss Demeanor
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Yes! As far as I understood, the only requirement to get into the hall of fame was to be a damn good baseball player... and he was.
R Nitelight
Her Rock
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Speaking as the biggest Pete Rose fan in the universe, the answer is no.
BrainyBeauty
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No ...and here's why not
First, I would like to point out that he is already in there. In several rooms. For various achievements. Not only as a member of the World Champion Reds teams of '75 and '76 but also for several individual accomplishments. Most notably for breaking Ty Cobb's all time career hits record. (hence his new nickname of the Hit King) Many of his different uniforms, bats, balls and gloves appear there.
These were auspicious occasions to be sure and well deserved. However, you folks are referring to a formal ceremony for induction into the Hall of Fame. No doubt that will probably never happen. Why?
The reason for his banishment is because he broke the one and only rule that is physically posted in every locker room in the league: NO BETTING ON BASEBALL. And it clearly states the consequences- immediate and permanent expulsion. There are no such requirements banning substance abuse. That is why you have a Darryl Strawberry or a Steve Howe getting chance after chance to come back.
Not only that, someone suggested that it wasn't a big deal since he was retired. That is not true. He started gambling as a player and continued on through his stint as a player-manager. Why does this matter? Because even just the appearance or the mere possibility that he did this is a grave concern. There is a blatant conflict of interest. Let's say he wagered $10,000 on the game (betting his team will lose). So, as a player, he strikes out on purpose. Or, as a manager, he switches pitchers inappropriately. Or he does something else to influence the outcome of the game. Certainly you can see the problem here? And why Major League Baseball (MLB) is so vehement in its position.
It pains me to say all this since I grew up watching him play his heart out. He was a player of limited skills who went out and busted his butt every day- that is how he got his original nickname of Charlie Hustle- for running out a base on balls. He became a great player and was one of the main reasons I fell in love with the game and the team.
But you say why should we care about his private life? I don't care. He served his time in jail for tax evasion. He's paid his price. More power to him.
But the integrity of the game is of far greater importance than this one man. Why do we have rules for anything if no one follows them and they become meaningless and unenforceable? Just because someone disagrees - we should do away with structure, rules and laws??? I think not.
Do we want to drive on a free-for-all autobahn out there if there were no speed limit?
Do we want people coming to work naked- if there were no dress codes?
(Darn, I forgot this is a porn site. Don't answer that last question! LOL)
Pete himself laughs about the Hall of Fame controversy- he knows he is already there. What sticks in his craw is the fact that they won't let him associate in any way with MLB. He wants nothing more than to manage again. He needs to be in uniform and on the field. It is in his blood. This is his life, his passion, his obsession. This is what causes him so much pain.
He makes tons of money at personal appearances and selling autographs and sports memorabilia, It ain't that he's hurting for money! It is his pride and his ego. But it is also his pure love of the game. I do admire that. (Really, how many players today in any sport actually play for the love of the game and NOT the fat contracts and multi-million dollar commercial endorsements?)
But he made a big mistake. He broke the cardinal rule. With full knowledge. He must accept the consequences of his actions. He agreed to a lifetime ban- not a "I'll wait 12 years and try again" ban.
He brought me great joy over the years. I was happy when Master Card bullied MLB into backing down and allowing Pete his moment to shine at last year's All-Star game tribute to the best players of the millennium. I was one of those who wrote protest letters to the company when it was first suggested that he not be allowed to attend.
Bud Selig backed down so as not to offend the corporate sponsor and because he knew it was the fan's wishes and votes that elected him to that list and high honor. Because it was sponsored by MasterCard and not a MLB sanctioned presentation, he gave in. (too bad Pete showed up in what can only be described as a hideous hair dye job!)
But later in the season, when we had a big event here to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the Reds 1975 World Championship, he was banned. He was informed that he could purchase a ticket and sit in the stands but he could not join his former teammates on the field. That hurt him. That is what he wants to avoid, not any business about the Hall of Fame. But ML Baseball will not back down or give in on this. And I venture to guess that they can probably out wait and out last him.
Sorry this turned out so long. As you can tell, I am just as passionate about baseball as he is!
First, I would like to point out that he is already in there. In several rooms. For various achievements. Not only as a member of the World Champion Reds teams of '75 and '76 but also for several individual accomplishments. Most notably for breaking Ty Cobb's all time career hits record. (hence his new nickname of the Hit King) Many of his different uniforms, bats, balls and gloves appear there.
These were auspicious occasions to be sure and well deserved. However, you folks are referring to a formal ceremony for induction into the Hall of Fame. No doubt that will probably never happen. Why?
- He will never get the required votes from the BBWAA (despite write-ins) (He has burned too many bridges and displays a bad attitude towards those who could vote him in)
- He would not be eligible even if he were to get the votes.
The reason for his banishment is because he broke the one and only rule that is physically posted in every locker room in the league: NO BETTING ON BASEBALL. And it clearly states the consequences- immediate and permanent expulsion. There are no such requirements banning substance abuse. That is why you have a Darryl Strawberry or a Steve Howe getting chance after chance to come back.
Not only that, someone suggested that it wasn't a big deal since he was retired. That is not true. He started gambling as a player and continued on through his stint as a player-manager. Why does this matter? Because even just the appearance or the mere possibility that he did this is a grave concern. There is a blatant conflict of interest. Let's say he wagered $10,000 on the game (betting his team will lose). So, as a player, he strikes out on purpose. Or, as a manager, he switches pitchers inappropriately. Or he does something else to influence the outcome of the game. Certainly you can see the problem here? And why Major League Baseball (MLB) is so vehement in its position.
It pains me to say all this since I grew up watching him play his heart out. He was a player of limited skills who went out and busted his butt every day- that is how he got his original nickname of Charlie Hustle- for running out a base on balls. He became a great player and was one of the main reasons I fell in love with the game and the team.
But you say why should we care about his private life? I don't care. He served his time in jail for tax evasion. He's paid his price. More power to him.
But the integrity of the game is of far greater importance than this one man. Why do we have rules for anything if no one follows them and they become meaningless and unenforceable? Just because someone disagrees - we should do away with structure, rules and laws??? I think not.
Do we want to drive on a free-for-all autobahn out there if there were no speed limit?
Do we want people coming to work naked- if there were no dress codes?
(Darn, I forgot this is a porn site. Don't answer that last question! LOL)
Pete himself laughs about the Hall of Fame controversy- he knows he is already there. What sticks in his craw is the fact that they won't let him associate in any way with MLB. He wants nothing more than to manage again. He needs to be in uniform and on the field. It is in his blood. This is his life, his passion, his obsession. This is what causes him so much pain.
He makes tons of money at personal appearances and selling autographs and sports memorabilia, It ain't that he's hurting for money! It is his pride and his ego. But it is also his pure love of the game. I do admire that. (Really, how many players today in any sport actually play for the love of the game and NOT the fat contracts and multi-million dollar commercial endorsements?)
But he made a big mistake. He broke the cardinal rule. With full knowledge. He must accept the consequences of his actions. He agreed to a lifetime ban- not a "I'll wait 12 years and try again" ban.
He brought me great joy over the years. I was happy when Master Card bullied MLB into backing down and allowing Pete his moment to shine at last year's All-Star game tribute to the best players of the millennium. I was one of those who wrote protest letters to the company when it was first suggested that he not be allowed to attend.
Bud Selig backed down so as not to offend the corporate sponsor and because he knew it was the fan's wishes and votes that elected him to that list and high honor. Because it was sponsored by MasterCard and not a MLB sanctioned presentation, he gave in. (too bad Pete showed up in what can only be described as a hideous hair dye job!)
But later in the season, when we had a big event here to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the Reds 1975 World Championship, he was banned. He was informed that he could purchase a ticket and sit in the stands but he could not join his former teammates on the field. That hurt him. That is what he wants to avoid, not any business about the Hall of Fame. But ML Baseball will not back down or give in on this. And I venture to guess that they can probably out wait and out last him.
Sorry this turned out so long. As you can tell, I am just as passionate about baseball as he is!
Madame Pandora
Deliciously Aware of Impending Sins
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BrainyBeauty,
Thank you for a wonderfully presented and thought-out explanation of the other side of the fence from mine ;-) I can tell you hold to your position with both empathy and common sense.
The truth is, to me, he's just a guy who made a really stupid mistake. And out of fear, he agreed to something that he had no idea would be akin to tearing out his own heart. That it was the "cardinal rule" he infringed upon doesn't make a lot of difference in my thinking. He just screwed up and to me, this situation doesn't seem to be as much about ethics as it does about politics and stubborn egos.
I don't think a bad decision (or even a string of them) should wipe away the contribution of an individual. I just don't. The point of punishment of any kind is to prevent others from committing like crimes and to give the person who commits the act a sense of repayment to society. The point has been made. It was a national issue. The world knows his crime even if he did "get away with it" to some extent.
The point has been made. To me, let the man out of the penalty box.
I'll go this far, though. I was not aware he'd never made an admission of wrong-doing. I think it would be an amazing gesture by the MLB to agree to lift the ban if he made a public statement and maybe did a few public service announcements. Give the man a chance to trade his ego for his legend. If his heart was really all for the game, he should do it. I think, at least, he deserves the chance.
MP
Thank you for a wonderfully presented and thought-out explanation of the other side of the fence from mine ;-) I can tell you hold to your position with both empathy and common sense.
The truth is, to me, he's just a guy who made a really stupid mistake. And out of fear, he agreed to something that he had no idea would be akin to tearing out his own heart. That it was the "cardinal rule" he infringed upon doesn't make a lot of difference in my thinking. He just screwed up and to me, this situation doesn't seem to be as much about ethics as it does about politics and stubborn egos.
I don't think a bad decision (or even a string of them) should wipe away the contribution of an individual. I just don't. The point of punishment of any kind is to prevent others from committing like crimes and to give the person who commits the act a sense of repayment to society. The point has been made. It was a national issue. The world knows his crime even if he did "get away with it" to some extent.
The point has been made. To me, let the man out of the penalty box.
I'll go this far, though. I was not aware he'd never made an admission of wrong-doing. I think it would be an amazing gesture by the MLB to agree to lift the ban if he made a public statement and maybe did a few public service announcements. Give the man a chance to trade his ego for his legend. If his heart was really all for the game, he should do it. I think, at least, he deserves the chance.
MP
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