Should writers and editors be ALLOWED to vote??

[Max ODrive]

Now.. this is definitely a question that may not even beg for an answer.. but.. think about it..

Just to be honest, I've voted.. maybe.. 5 times the entire time I've been coming to Lit in the past .. what.. 7 years anyway.. and those were stories I felt were good enough to merit my vote. But, since I've started posting again, I don't feel like I can "fairly "vote on a story.

I definitely do NOT vote on my stories, nor on stories of those people I know from here. I can't because I know that any vote I give it will be "colored" either by my like or dislike of the author.

I also won't vote on any other stories because I feel that, as a writer, I may be influenced by my own views on how the story could've been written better, or how this or that didn't play into how I felt the story could've flowed. In other words, I'll take their story apart, and that means I'll be unfairly hard on the story.

So, with that said.. can writers, and especially editors, voluntary or otherwise, be objective enough to vote?

 

[snooper]

So, with that said.. can writers, and especially editors, voluntary or otherwise, be objective enough to vote?

Clearly not.

That said, I think you will find many writers vote themselves a 5 "to start the ball rolling".

In any case, I don't understand what the votes mean. On a scale of 1 to 5 I would have thought that an average story would be voted a 3 with uprating for good points and down rating for bad points. If that is true then the average of 4.24 for the 74 voted stories on page 17 of the alphabetic list of "First Time" stories indicates that the average standard of writing is close to being brilliant.

 

[emap]

I agree with snoopy. I mean seriously, if you write stories on literotica you should not be allowed to vote period, mainly because of what you said, we tend to look at it differently. The people we talk to on the forums should not be allowed to vote either since their own opinion of the author would of course adjust their votes accordingly.

Of course voting habits would need to be monitored so the people who just vote 1 on every story could not vote as well, simply because they are not voting on the story itself, they are simply getting their jollies off by voting 1. No clue how that works, but seems to be the case.

Similarly the people who only vote 5 just because should not be allowed to vote since they are getting their jollies off voting 5. Again no clue how that works.

Of course, that can't happen, unless of course literotica is a part of the government, some organization to monitor all of us perverts say. So really, the best way to avoid the whole debate on whether or not writers and editors should vote on stories, what the vote means about your story and so on so forth. Is to simply not think about, not worry about it and not keep track of the vote rating. Which honestly is the hard part, everytime I go and check on the public messages for my stories I look at the average rating for each, hard to miss after all.

 

[Darkniciad]

I agree with snoopy. I mean seriously, if you write stories on literotica you should not be allowed to vote period, mainly because of what you said, we tend to look at it differently. The people we talk to on the forums should not be allowed to vote either since their own opinion of the author would of course adjust their votes accordingly.

Of course voting habits would need to be monitored so the people who just vote 1 on every story could not vote as well, simply because they are not voting on the story itself, they are simply getting their jollies off by voting 1. No clue how that works, but seems to be the case.

Similarly the people who only vote 5 just because should not be allowed to vote since they are getting their jollies off voting 5. Again no clue how that works.

That plan should cut down the number of people allowed to vote, who will bother to vote, to about six. *laugh*

Adding another H level with a more orangish icon from 3.5 to 4.5 might reduce some of the vote inflation. Removing them entirely and replacing them with the raw score might work, too.

In the end, it's an internet public opinion poll, and thus automatically flawed to a high degree.

 

[cloudy]

I still don't get the obsession over votes.

Chill, people. Really.

 

[Darkniciad]

I still don't get the obsession over votes.

Chill, people. Really.

I find it hard to believe that you didn't feel a little anxiety about it at some point in time. If so, you're rare.

For the rest of us, it takes a while. I'm barely getting over it myself. The scores and votes still matter in some fashion as an indicator under narrow conditions. Declining votes/scores on a chapter in the middle of a series can indicate that someone really didn't like something in that chapter.

The effect of an H or a position in the toplists also undeniably has an effect upon the number of people who will read your story. Everybody wants to be read, or they wouldn't post here - the more the merrier.

As a real indicator of the quality of the work, the vote system is pretty meaningless ( as would be any modification of it, any set of controls can be defeated on the internet ). But, the scores aren't completely worthless.

 

[cloudy]

As a real indicator of the quality of the work, the vote system is pretty meaningless

My point exactly.

 

[Max ODrive]

As a real indicator of the quality of the work, the vote system is pretty meaningless ( as would be any modification of it, any set of controls can be defeated on the internet ). But, the scores aren't completely worthless.

I totally agree, which is why I simply use the voting score as a "baseline" and combine that with other factors including comments, emails and what I honestly think about the story to come to an overall "feel" for how the story is actually being received.

And, just to be dead-dog honest, thats why I post the same story at other sites as well. That way I not only have the "system" here (loosely termed.. very loosely..IMO a scoring system vote that gives you no variation between a perfect score and a 75 is inherently limiting on the low side.. a 10 point scale at least gives 2 more graduations between a perfect 10 and a 7) to start my "internal calculations" but combined with the systems in place at other sites to get a better "feel" for the actual quality of the story.

Like I said, I'm not as concerned about getting a LOW score on a story.. thats actually usable feedback.. I've either written something that sucks rocks, or I've written something that is 'not popular' as a topic. Either way, it tells me that I need to improve somewhere..

But if a score isn't at least somewhere close in the "honest" factor, then I have to throw it out completely when it comes time for me to evaluate the overall impact of the story I've written.. and right now, I feel the score for Click is totally invalid..

 

[mjl2010]

and right now, I feel the score for Click is totally invalid..

Why do you feel that way? I just went and read and thought it was pretty good. It has it's slow moments, but a lot of us can sympathize with the guy. Really the story sort of moves along. You build up what he does along with what's driving him crazy, then we get to read a pretty good sex scene with a hot woman.

I'm just curious why you think the vote average is invalid? (just now, 4.79)

MJL

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Personally, I would do away with the vote bullshit entirely. For a contest, I would have an editorial board to rate the entries. For the non-contest the stories, why bother to rate them at all? Voting just gives an outlet to the dwarfish, rectums we call "Trolls" whos only aim is to degrade whatever value a story has.

In other words, the vote system plays to the lowest form of life and means nothing.

 

[mjl2010]

Personally, I would do away with the vote bullshit entirely. For a contest, I would have an editorial board to rate the entries. For the non-contest the stories, why bother to rate them at all? Voting just gives an outlet to the dwarfish, rectums we call "Trolls" whos only aim is to degrade whatever value a story has.

In other words, the vote system plays to the lowest form of life and means nothing.

Glad to see your old AV back Jenny

 

[Max ODrive]

Ms. Jackson..

While I do agree with your sentiment, I do have to disagree a bit.. Votes do have a place within this particular structure for a couple of reasons..

First, I use it as a part of my arsenal of tools to improve my writing skills.. votes, even though somewhat inaccurate due to the current methodology, give me an indication on whether or not I'm doing what I need to do to satisfy my target audience...

Secondly, it gives the readers a way to feed back to the writer without having to interact directly with us, or to spend a lot of time doing so. Readers, on the whole, will not interact at all, given the opportunity, nor will they expend more than the minimum amount of effort, given any opportunity at all. Those that do are few and far between, although their emails and public comments are greatly appreciated.

I know that for me, even with the flaws in the system, at least I can use something to gauge where I'm at in my efforts.


And, MJL.. I'll ask that you go read Win Some too.. then you can see if its a better story or not..

 

[mjl2010]

Ok for click click click, I went and found your submission page, then clicked on the story. You want me to read something else and dispense my awesome power of critique, then post a link please.

 

[Max ODrive]

Ok..here's a link..

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=38429&page=submissions

 

[snooper]

... Like I said, I'm not as concerned about getting a LOW score on a story.. thats actually usable feedback.. I've either written something that sucks rocks, or I've written something that is 'not popular' as a topic. Either way, it tells me that I need to improve somewhere. ...

If you have written "something that is 'not popular' as a topic" how can you "improve"? Granted you can increase your popularity by writing in a different category, but in what way is that an improvement?

... In other words, the vote system plays to the lowest form of life and means nothing.

That is why I took the option of turning voting off for all my stories.

I agree with snoopy. ...

Hooray!

... unless of course literotica is a part of the government, some organization to monitor all of us perverts ...

Sssh. You aren't supposed to know that, and if you do it's a "Federal Offense" to tell the perverts.

 

[sr71plt]

That is why I took the option of turning voting off for all my stories.

That does lead to the question of why Jenny and others who think the voting system means nothing and should be done away with don't also turn off the voting for their stories.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Ms. Jackson..

While I do agree with your sentiment, I do have to disagree a bit.. Votes do have a place within this particular structure for a couple of reasons..

First, I use it as a part of my arsenal of tools to improve my writing skills.. votes, even though somewhat inaccurate due to the current methodology, give me an indication on whether or not I'm doing what I need to do to satisfy my target audience...

Secondly, it gives the readers a way to feed back to the writer without having to interact directly with us, or to spend a lot of time doing so. Readers, on the whole, will not interact at all, given the opportunity, nor will they expend more than the minimum amount of effort, given any opportunity at all. Those that do are few and far between, although their emails and public comments are greatly appreciated.

I know that for me, even with the flaws in the system, at least I can use something to gauge where I'm at in my efforts.
QUOTE]
Max,
If you enter a writing competition, you will not be voted on. You will be reviewed and judged by an experienced editorial board. Will you receive any feedback at all? Maybe, but probubly not.

The PC's can still remain. It's the votes that are really meaningless in the overall view.

 

[Emerald_Dragon]

Now.. this is definitely a question that may not even beg for an answer.. but.. think about it..

Just to be honest, I've voted.. maybe.. 5 times the entire time I've been coming to Lit in the past .. what.. 7 years anyway.. and those were stories I felt were good enough to merit my vote. But, since I've started posting again, I don't feel like I can "fairly "vote on a story.

I definitely do NOT vote on my stories, nor on stories of those people I know from here. I can't because I know that any vote I give it will be "colored" either by my like or dislike of the author.

I also won't vote on any other stories because I feel that, as a writer, I may be influenced by my own views on how the story could've been written better, or how this or that didn't play into how I felt the story could've flowed. In other words, I'll take their story apart, and that means I'll be unfairly hard on the story.

So, with that said.. can writers, and especially editors, voluntary or otherwise, be objective enough to vote?

Yeah I think so. At least for me. I find that the stories I vote for are either ones I really like or ones with a lot of potential. I try to leave feedback if I am going to vote on it. I pay more attention to the feedback scores on my stories than the overall vote, they at least tell me a little bit about why they voted the way they did.

I think too that I tend to be harder on the "better" writers because they are good! Comparing a story quality to a previous story and such. I have read their stuff and I have high expectations.

I personally like it when writers/editors leave comments with their votes because they are a little more educated as to what to look for in a good story and can offer more specific feedback and constructive criticism than the average Joe. You can also contact them back and have them expand on things.

 

[adetaildiva]

steaming

Okay. At the risk of being completely different, do any of you ever read for pleasure?!? Just the enjoyment of the pictures/images someone else's words create in your mind?

Yes, I'm a V.E., but I'm also a patron. As startling as that may be for some, I actually come here, in what little down time I have, to be entertained. If I choose to vote on a story at all, then, gee, I must have liked something about the author's presentation of their story idea.

If I choose to read & vote on a story I edited, BFD; 8 times out of 10 the posted story is slightly (or more) different from the last time I saw it. I thought the purpose of this site was so author's could hone their skills & maybe even acquire a fan base. Thus, it stands to my reason (flawed or not) that if an author's story gets consistently low/no votes, then maybe (s)he'll come to realize that more sharpening is needed or risk losing whatever fans (s)he has.

All that to say this: I'm going to be really pissed if you go taking away my down time privileges as a fan. Be assured I will complain - loudly.

 

[Max ODrive]

sr71.. this is NOT a thread to start a fight in.. I'll shut your ass down in this one like I have all the others you've gone against me in. Contribute or shut up.

JJ, I may never enter a competition. Unlike writers who attempt to create art, I'm simply interested in entertaining the reader, and honing my skills to get me into a position where I can produce works that in return produces piles of folding green paper.

Other than that, "competition" holds no attraction for me. I'm not going for the Nobel Prize in erotica, or literature.. but until I can write a better schtick than Clive Cussler, I'm going to continue to work at it..

 

[sr71plt]

sr71.. this is NOT a thread to start a fight in.. I'll shut your ass down in this one like I have all the others you've gone against me in. Contribute or shut up.

JJ, I may never enter a competition. Unlike writers who attempt to create art, I'm simply interested in entertaining the reader, and honing my skills to get me into a position where I can produce works that in return produces piles of folding green paper.

Other than that, "competition" holds no attraction for me. I'm not going for the Nobel Prize in erotica, or literature.. but until I can write a better schtick than Clive Cussler, I'm going to continue to work at it..

It's a logical question. Don't be so full of yourself, Max. You should do something about your anger complex.

 

[Max ODrive]

Dude, I'll take anger management classes if you'll take how-not-to-be-an-asshole class..ok? Now.. either make a DECENT contribution instead of a provocative statement, or get the fuck outta my thread..

'nuff said.

 

[sr71plt]

Dude, I'll take anger management classes if you'll take how-not-to-be-an-asshole class..ok? Now.. either make a DECENT contribution instead of a provocative statement, or get the fuck outta my thread..

'nuff said.

It appears obvious who is behaving badly here. I'd say suggesting that the story writers and editors here shouldn't be permitted to vote on stories is about as provocative a statement as can be made. You can vote on any personal rules you like--as can the rest of us.

And the obvious answer to those who think the voting system is meaningless is just to turn their's off. It's easy to do here.

Now, as I know you are going to be ugly in response, you can play that game all by yourself. (Geez. Drop four measily stories on the pile and suddenly act like you own the place. Kinda full of yourself, fella.)

 

[Max ODrive]

Nope.. that was a decent contri to the thread..
Smart, concise, on topic..

Thanks!
(I'm impressed.. didn't know you had it in you...)

 

[LadyCibelle]

Gentlemen, gentlemen. Would it be possible for you both to douse your testosterone-laden egos in some calming waters?

Lately, I've seen great things done in discussion here, I'd hate to see it all go to waste because you can't turn the testosterone down a notch .....pwease.