Should the American Constitution be abandoned - Part 2

[p_p_man]

A couple of months ago I posted what was meant to be a light-hearted thread about the American Constitution and whether it was more of a hindrance than a help to America.

Well it seems that now the Bush Administration is agreeing with me. I always knew they took my posts seriously!

The New York Times ran an article on Thursday reporting that "Preparing to tell the Senate Judiciary Committee where to get off today, Attorney General John Ashcroft lashed out at all who dare to uphold our bedrock rule of law as 'voices of negativism'. Polls show terrorized Americans willing to subvert our Constitution to hold Soviet-style secret military trials. No presumption of innocence; no independent juries; no right to choice of counsel; no appeal to civilian judges for aliens suspected of being in touch with terrorists."

This is the sort of thing we've come to expect from a man like Bush and his disciples, but what I find difficult to understand is where's the opposition to this major upheaval to the American Way of Life?

I've seen protest here on Lit but something this big should surely have an organised opposition in full swing by now.

Are Americans really "terrorised", so much so that they are willing to accept anything that comes out of the White House. Or has a general lethargy of spirit overwhelmed everyone since 11 Sept?

At this rate Bush will be able to make himself President for life! And then once annoying things like elections have been made illegal, the Presidency would probably be passed to his heirs.

Don't you think that America is at a vitally important crossroads in it's history.

I do...

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Hey PP, you already know the response you're going to get. Why continue to play this game?

(I'll give you a hint. It rhymes with "whirring spit".)

 

[Nogard]

Man, you have severe mental problems. Isn't there anything in the United Kingdom that needs repair? Save you the trouble of telling us how to run our country, which by the way, is none of your business.

 

[carrie-on]

NO!

 

[morninggirl5]

Well it seems that now the Bush Administration is agreeing with me. I always knew they took my posts seriously!

Aren't you glad someone takes your posts seriously? It would just kill you to be ignored.

At this rate Bush will be able to make himself President for life! And then once annoying things like elections have been made illegal, the Presidency would probably be passed to his heirs.

Won't happen. To change the constitution is a very long process and his two terms would be up long before then.

Don't you think that America is at a vitally important crossroads in it's history.

I do...

Yep, you're confused. Don't worry about it, you have nothing better to do with your time. We understand.

 

[Guest]

While i object to the current ill state of our governments thinking on this issue it is not without precident. History tells us that the United States is imperfect in form and reactionary when threatened. It also should tell us that the relative power between the branchs of government is in constant flux. I find it encouraging that the senate is asking questions about this adminsitrations goals and its responses thus far. Am i hiding under my bed because the dictators are coming. No. My greatest fear can be found in the not so subtle confluence of power in the cooporate world and the seeming plotted and well planned destruction of the value of the individual. The was a time not so long ago that workers in very large industries had some power. That is wanning. Now we have talking heads and pundits who never question this imbalance in power. Enron is a perfect example of political corruption/coorporate greed, destroying lives. One day I hope the workers of this country wake up and perhaps begin a new period of populism. It has happened several times in our history and i think that day will come again. Perhaps, sooner than we think.

 

[p_p_man]

Save you the trouble of telling us how to run our country, which by the way, is none of your business.

That's rich coming from a citizen of a country that has made interfering into other countries business almost an art form!

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

PP, go back down to the pub and have a pint. I prefer your nonsensical drunken self to your current shit-stirring self.

 

[morninggirl5]

That's rich coming from a citizen of a country that has made interfering into other countries business almost an art form!

You forgot your line.


You're the one whose been accusing us of being isolationist.

SO, which is it, make up your mind.

 

[miles]

I used to think PP said this stuff just to get a rise out of people. Then for a while I thought he really did believe it. But it's neither. His ability to process information is severely limited. He has no grasp on reality when it comes to world affairs and knows next to nothing about the US. He spews rhetoric instead of discussing the facts. It's like discussing politics with someone who gets their information from the funnies.

 

[tonytuna1957]

I agree

Big corperations have been keep in check so to speak.....by manly one thing......Big Unions...........They understood what can happen when a group of people band together for a common goal.

But with Ronald's interferance with the Airport Controlers Union, big corperations found a friend in the federal goverment, shifting the power from the workers back to the companies...ie "temporary replacement workers"...what joke.

Shortly after this move by the goverment, corperation followed suit with thier own "temporay replacement workers" to help with the striking union workers. Then the south saw a move towards non-union workers...company closing plants in the union powerful north and reopen them in the south.

So we must hold the goverment in check on this matter also.... no matter how painful September 11th was to the American People to unleash a federal agency on to a unsupecting population, is not the right move.

I do not know the answer to how we combat or to stop another Sept 11th happening but you cant start with underminning the US Constitution.

 

[REDWAVE]

Crisis

No kidding, we're at a critical juncture-- a crisis of world-historical proportions is underway worldwide. And I and other people are trying to get an opposition movement going here in the U.S., but it's tough when the corporate mega-media is constantly blasting out pro-war & pro-Bush propaganda.

 

[PHANTOM5875]

P_P_Man, is there a name for what's wrong with you? (No, WAIT! That's what my wife said to ME this morning...nevermind....)

Seriously, don't beat up on P_P_Man too much. One of the best aspects of a healthy democracy is that it's citizens constantly challenge the status quo and periodically reinvents itself into a new, and hopefully better version of itself. I know the brits have been going through some constitution issues themselves and I believe the USA is too. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

I am sure the rights of the everyday citizen here in the USA and Britain were severely curtailed during world world II and, yes, we probably grumbled as was our right but went along with it for the common good of our respective nations.

Not to worry about the good ole USA. We might be willing to give up some or our rights and privacy right now but you can darn well count on it that the citizens will draw the governmental officials up right sharp if we think they are extending those restrictions one day longer than is needed.

Let's also NOT forget that the brits stepped up very quickly to stand shoulder to should with us in this new battle for nothing short of our way of life. I for one am very grateful for that.

If we can't take a little poking and prodding from within and without, then we had REALLY be worried about the health of our nation.

Phantom.

 

[WriterDom]

8,000,000 protestors marched in NYC today, but it wasn't covered by the corporate mega-media.

 

[PHANTOM5875]

8,000,000 protestors marched in NYC today, but it wasn't covered by the corporate mega-media.

No kidding?!? What was the nature of the protest? Hadn't seen anything on that as yet.

Phantom

 

[REDWAVE]

Very funny

Cute, WD, but if you think you're getting the whole story from watching, say, CNN, you're sadly mistaken. Contrast the way the corporate media here covered the Mazar-i-Sharif massacre with the way wsws.org covered it, for instance. BTW, what news & information sources do you mainly rely on, WD? National Review, perchance?

 

[SINthysist]

As far as the interferring remark p_p_, who the hell do you think they learned from.

The military tribunals are under the Secretary of Defense's baliwik. Ashcroft as been pulled up because he is a favorite target to bash, especially if the Dems can portray him to be an evil conservative and make him the face of the Republican party, ala Gingrich.

They should have Rumsfeld up there now, but he is just too damn popular. In fact, the networks all dropped thier coverage of the Ashcroft hearings to go to the Rummy Show, which is getting great ratings. America loves it when he tells reporters they are being idiots, and really many of us like it when Ashcroft tells Kennedy, Leakin' Leahy, et. al., thet they are pretty much idiots.

Leahy wants to know wht he wasn't consulted, and true to form, Ashcroft bites his tongue, and does not admit the truth... Leahy keeps a secret like a toddler...

"Guess what I learned today!"

 

[April]

Are Americans really "terrorised", so much so that they are willing to accept anything that comes out of the White House.

NO!!

No fucking way!

 

[p_p_man]

There's more!

The New York Times article went on to say...

"one might expect us negativists to be in disarray. Here's why we are not: The sudden seizure of power by the executive branch, bypassing all constitutional checks and balances, is beginning to be recognized by cooler heads in the White House, Defense Department and C.I.A. as more than a bit excessive.

Not that they'll ever admit it publicly; Bush will stick to his shaky line that civil courts cannot be trusted to protect military secrets and, as fearful Orrin Hatch assures him, jurors will be too scared to serve."

So I suppose there is hope yet. If enough opposition within the Administration can be built up then it's possible that even Bush can be persuaded to reverse the trend.

Myself I think it's unlikely and as REDWAVE says the groundswell of opposition will have to come from the people.

It's true, as has already been pointed out, that Governments do make fundamental changes in the the way we all live during times of danger. Changes they know they would never get away with in more settled times.

The extra problem America has to deal with is the President himself. His extreme actions and speeches when he first took office is a clear signpost as to the direction he considers his Government should take the country. Into isolationism.

The terrorist attacks have shown him what every other country in the world already knew. That no country is an island unto itself.

So now he's wholeheartedly embraced the policy of taking his "war" to any country which has caused America problems in the past and which may be suspected of protecting terrorists and at the same time re-vamping the Constitution at home to give his Government more power over the populace.

And this is all being done in the name of anti-terrorism.