Should parents be fined if their kids are bullies?

[girlsmiley]

I read that in Wisconsin, parents are given a warning and time to sort their bullying kids out. If they can't sort their kids out, they can be fined.

"The ordinance prohibits bullying or harassment, prohibits retaliation against any person who reports bullying or harassment, and also holds parents and guardians responsible for such behavior of children younger than 18 years old. It includes a penalty of $50 for a child's first bullying offense, but would total $313 once court costs are factored in. The parents would receive a written warning before a citation is issued, according to the ordinance."

 

[Sean]

I have no problem with it in theory. The devil, as usual, is in the details. How is "bullying" defined?

 

[phrodeau]

I have no problem with it in theory. The devil, as usual, is in the details. How is "bullying" defined?

By lawyers.

 

[girlsmiley]

I have no problem with it in theory. The devil, as usual, is in the details. How is "bullying" defined?

Buggered if I know.

Picking on a person to make them feel bad would be my guess.

 

[jaF0]

Not only fined, but made to pay for any damages.

 

[FlowersForFun]

Buggered if I know.

Picking on a person to make them feel bad would be my guess.

Laws and punishment based on subjective feelings is a dangerous thing.

One must be very careful with the legal definitions or pretty soon EVERYONE will be a "bully" and it all becomes a giant shit show.


And no....bullying is fine, kids need it.

Punishing parents for allowing kids to grow up is a good way to run the "child abuse" sky high.

 

[girlsmiley]

Laws and punishment based on subjective feelings is a dangerous thing.

One must be very careful with the legal definitions or pretty soon EVERYONE will be a "bully" and it all becomes a giant shit show.


And no....bullying is fine, kids need it.

Punishing parents for allowing kids to grow up is a good way to run the "child abuse" sky high.

Mentally, physically etc. My definition of bullying may be simple, but I know a bully when I see one. No way in hell I'd dare bully another kid when I was in school. I'd get my fucking arse kicked. That's just how it was.

 

[FlowersForFun]

Mentally, physically etc. My definition of bullying may be simple,

Is not a bad one, especially for personal/common definitions.

But I'm sure you understand why a law, something that carries the force of violence behind it, must be specific and precise if it has any hope of not setting off lots of unintended consequences.

but I know a bully when I see one. No way in hell I'd dare bully another kid when I was in school. I'd get my fucking arse kicked. That's just how it was.

That's how it should be.....bullies should have their ass kicked and kids around the bullies need to learn how to stand up to them.

Otherwise they grow up into an adult who doesn't know how to deal with assholes.

They don't learn to temper their temper......control their emotional responses, that creates Karens, and the world doesn't need anymore Karens.

 

[MonaLittle]

Buggered if I know.

Picking on a person to make them feel bad would be my guess.

I'm for it if it brings bodily harm to the abused.

 

[Saint_Ann]

I've never seen any kid that wasn't a bully at some time or another. Sounds like a kid tax to me.

 

[MonaLittle]

I've never seen any kid that wasn't a bully at some time or another. Sounds like a kid tax to me.

I was never a bully.

 

[Saint_Ann]

I was never a bully.

Often a clear conscience is the result of a poor memory.

 

[FlowersForFun]

I'm for it if it brings bodily harm to the abused.

That would be a reasonable "line" to start drawing, I agree.

Physical violence should not be tolerated in a civil society.

 

[MonaLittle]

Often a clear conscience is the result of a poor memory.

...

 

[jaF0]

I was never a bully.

Bull.

 

[MonaLittle]

Bull.

Does it count if it was between sisters?

 

[Lazaran]

I read that in Wisconsin, parents are given a warning and time to sort their bullying kids out. If they can't sort their kids out, they can be fined.

"The ordinance prohibits bullying or harassment, prohibits retaliation against any person who reports bullying or harassment, and also holds parents and guardians responsible for such behavior of children younger than 18 years old. It includes a penalty of $50 for a child's first bullying offense, but would total $313 once court costs are factored in. The parents would receive a written warning before a citation is issued, according to the ordinance."

The apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree, and true child bullies have an enabler somewhere in the immediate family.

Schools rightfully don't allow corporal punishment anymore so the parents need to be consequenced for the child's behavior if the child reoffends after being warned and given time to correct the behavior.

When money starts coming out of parents pockets, meaningful action is usually quick to follow.

I personally think all true child bullies should be given a psychological evaluation to determine if they themselves have been victims of abuse before any other action is taken. If the parents refuse to let their child be evaluated and the behavior persists or morphs into some other antisocial behavior, then the decision should be taken out of the parents hands and fines or other actions should be taken depending on the outcome of the evaluation. A lot of child bullies are just kids who have observed how adult bullies act and mimic their behavior. Fines for parents of those types of child bullies after a warning and time for correction is a very reasonable penalty.

if only there was some way to fine Trump for his poor example when it comes to being a bully.

 

[MonaLittle]

The apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree, and true child bullies have an enabler somewhere in the immediate family.

Schools rightfully don't allow corporal punishment anymore so the parents need to be consequenced for the child's behavior if the child reoffends after being warned and given time to correct the behavior.

When money starts coming out of parents pockets, meaningful action is usually quick to follow.

I personally think all true child bullies should be given a psychological evaluation to determine if they themselves have been victims of abuse before any other action is taken. If the parents refuse to let their child be evaluated and the behavior persists or morphs into some other antisocial behavior, then the decision should be taken out of the parents hands and fines or other actions should be taken depending on the outcome of the evaluation. A lot of child bullies are just kids who have observed how adult bullies act and mimic their behavior. Fines for parents of those types of child bullies after a warning and time for correction is a very reasonable penalty.

if only there was some way to fine Trump for his poor example when it comes to being a bully.

Not really true. You are assuming that (a) there are 2 parents and (b) that even if there were, they give a shit.

I speak from experience - I volunteered in the Chicago City school system for years and bullies come from many different environments. The ones I saw on a daily basis were either in gangs or living in bad family situations - meaning, with anyone who would take them because their mom's were meth heads and didn't know who their kids father's were.

In this case, if the "parents" were held responsible, nothing would happen. Except, the kid might get beat up (again) by whoever they lived with.

 

[PaxNurgle]

By lawyers.

Then, no.
(to answer the original question.)

Let assholes be assholes, and let the schools, or the courts, deal with it. Or better yet, empower the bullying victims to stand up for themselves and deal with it- like we did when we were kids.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

I have no problem with it in theory. The devil, as usual, is in the details. How is "bullying" defined?

Who determines the efforts of the parental units?

 

[Conager]

Who determines the efforts of the parental units?

I would think it is be a straight liability issue. Regardless of how you raised your child , if your child throws a baseball through the neighbors window you get to replace the window.

The problem is going to be how bullying is defined and when and how it is enforced.

I'm really not in favor of any of this because I'm pretty sure that if you took the time on any given bully to examine their home life, the parent (s) probably are the problem but fining them isn't really going to improve the problem much. Wasn't that true with truancy?

This is a counseling issue and or an expulsion issue. Far as I'm concerned if I'm running a school and I've got a problem with a bully we're going to sit down and have a chat if it continues he's out of the school.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Cost your parent a fine; get a beating.

It's Wisconsin for chrisakes.

 

[Bad_Egg]

Fines for emotional bullying, but I'd press charges the moment it turned physical.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPox55gVlXxQkPa8/giphy.gif

 

[LincolnDuncan]

I would think it is be a straight liability issue. Regardless of how you raised your child , if your child throws a baseball through the neighbors window you get to replace the window.

The problem is going to be how bullying is defined and when and how it is enforced.

I'm really not in favor of any of this because I'm pretty sure that if you took the time on any given bully to examine their home life, the parent (s) probably are the problem but fining them isn't really going to improve the problem much. Wasn't that true with truancy?

This is a counseling issue and or an expulsion issue. Far as I'm concerned if I'm running a school and I've got a problem with a bully we're going to sit down and have a chat if it continues he's out of the school.

Legislators can pass laws but a just society, at it's best, has judges and other alleged professionals to interpret and apply the law. The question in this thread concerns holding parents and guardians responsible for the behavior of children. Some states and the federal government have agencies to determine what is in the best interests of unsupervised juveniles. It's not about just defining bullying

 

[Conager]

In an ideal world you are correct, but we do a really poor job of intervening in instances where children are in danger at home (not that many of these bullies are not) and dont have good systems for care and placement.

Society needs a better society, not better government agencies because they are never going to be good enough. We used to have more intact nuclear families, we provide little incentive to encourage that and lots of perverse societal and governmental incentive to break that down. Same thing with extended family breakdown. Used to be multigenerational family units took care of a lot of parenting. Used to be stronger, closer knit community involvement, people knew their neighbors. Used to be stronger religious and secular charitable organizations.

None of that's an answer, because you can't just will society to be better.