Sex with the wrong Sex?

[3113]

I was forumlating this story idea and I realized that I really needed to ask gay guys about having sex with women in order to write it. But the first question that came to mind...it seemed to me that only asking gay guys about it was unfair as it can apply to anyone with a strong sexual preference. So, I've decided to start my investagation with an open question to both Hetero and Homosexuals about having sex with "the wrong sex"--that is, the sex you're not usually attracted to.

Bi-folk, you don't get to play this game. You have way too much fun with other games as it is.

So here's the question: You have a pretty powerful attraction to one particular sex (male or female) and rarely look at the other one. If you HAD to spend the night and have sexual intercourse with a partner of the sex you're NOT interested in, what kind of person would you pick to make the experience as pleasant as possible for yourself? Or not pick come to that? If you've had life experience in this area (experimented, or were stuck in marriage to the wrong sex) you can certainly bring in that life experience--that is, who did you pick and why and would you pick that type again?

For example, if you're a guy attracted to girls, but you had to spend the night with a guy, would you want a feminized male? (sorry, post-operative transexuals don't count, but cross-dressers who can pass do count). Or would you rather not be "tricked"? If you want the guy to look like a guy, what type of guy? Slender and short and hairless, or would you really, er, swallow your preferences and go all the way--bearded, muscular, hairy?

Ladies, lesbians, gay-guys, same question. With thanks up front for any help or insights.

As for me...it's interesting actually considering it. If I had to sleep with a woman, I know I wouldn't want a womanly woman. Large breasts, Marilyn Monroe, hour-glass figure, etc. But I don't think I'd want cross-dresser either (that is, a woman who, very kindly, would do everything she could to let me fool myself into thinking I was with a man). I think I'd go for androgyous. Someone like Tilda Swinton, perhaps?

 

[3113]

Anyone?

 

[Akito01]

This actually is an interesting topic to me, and once which I've only very awkwardly addressed in a couple of stories I've done for Lit.

I think the idea of being 'tricked' is actually an interesting one, since it kind of gets to the heart of the artificial nature of plastic beauty in general. I remember when I first discovered Yuka, who is a Japanese amateur fetish model. I loved those images, since I'm quite fond of kinky costumes and panythose and so on, but for a good while couldn't figure out why Yuka was so ardent about blurring the face in those pictures. It was only after I actually took a look at the site in total, and saw the references to cross-dressing, that I came to the now obvious conclusion that Yuka was actually a male. Now, not every guy is going to look attractive in a minidress and pantyhose, but for those that do, it does rather prove that what makes up sexual attraction is more in the mind than what the person has between their legs.

In terms of making love to a guy as a guy, it's kind of hard to comment on in anything than academic terms, since I've never done so myself. I think I've probably said this before in other topic threads, that while it would be interesting and fun to sexually experiment with another man's penis, I find it infinitely more difficult to imagine kissing another man on the mouth -I kind of wonder if that isn't where the real barrier between gay and straight lies, not so much who you'd have sex with, but who'd you would be able to kiss.

 

[Elmer Keith]

I think that kissing a guy is real hot.

 

[3113]

I think that kissing a guy is real hot.

Well, so do I, but I think Akito makes an excellent point. It's interesting that, from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong), straight guys will jerk each other off when they are kids experimenting and exploring sexuality...but they won't kiss. Teenage girls, however, will kiss as a way to learn how to kiss.

Now, I don' t know if that goes for all cultures or just Western or just the U.S. I rather suspect this is very much U.S. culture we're getting into.

I'd be far more willing to kiss a girl, including French kiss, then kiss, er, any other part of her.

So is this a guy/girl thing or is it a straight guy/girl thing, in particular, a U.S. cultural thing. That is, Straight guys are willing to touch another guy's penis, but not kiss the guy. Straight girls are willing to kiss a girl but won't get involved with other parts of her? I wonder if it has to do with the fact that women do tend to be more sensitive to touch, all over, then men as well as culturally encouraged to touch (hug, kiss, etc.) but to hold their sacred parts as sacred? Urinate in separate stalls? Meanwhile, there are guys who are told not to kiss each other, but hey, it's perfectly fine to whip it out and pee next to each other.

 

[Akito01]

Well, so do I, but I think Akito makes an excellent point. It's interesting that, from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong), straight guys will jerk each other off when they are kids experimenting and exploring sexuality...but they won't kiss. Teenage girls, however, will kiss as a way to learn how to kiss.

Now, I don' t know if that goes for all cultures or just Western or just the U.S. I rather suspect this is very much U.S. culture we're getting into.

I'd be far more willing to kiss a girl, including French kiss, then kiss, er, any other part of her.

So is this a guy/girl thing or is it a straight guy/girl thing, in particular, a U.S. cultural thing. That is, Straight guys are willing to touch another guy's penis, but not kiss the guy. Straight girls are willing to kiss a girl but won't get involved with other parts of her? I wonder if it has to do with the fact that women do tend to be more sensitive to touch, all over, then men as well as culturally encouraged to touch (hug, kiss, etc.) but to hold their sacred parts as sacred? Urinate in separate stalls? Meanwhile, there are guys who are told not to kiss each other, but hey, it's perfectly fine to whip it out and pee next to each other.

I wish I had the kind of diverse range of experience to really address these points, but for the most part, they do sound correct. It's hard to know how much this is a strictly Western cultural artifact, especially since so many other cultures are far less open in examining what goes on behind closed doors.

That said, in terms of trying to tie this into an actual story idea, is there something in the notion of a Masters & Johnson style sex study in which straight men and women are made to sexually interact with each other? The main character, whoever he or she may be, is in need of a little extra cash, and perhaps being in a university setting, decides to sign up for a study in human sexuality. Although signing off on the paperwork, the main character is somewhat shocked by what is actually required, but does ultimately go along with the study.

I'm not sure this is the best story idea to fit this theme into, and perhaps you had something else in mind, or another angle on the potential plot?

 

[3113]

I'm not sure this is the best story idea to fit this theme into, and perhaps you had something else in mind, or another angle on the potential plot?

I do, actually. This question was just my big toe dipping into the idea waters (And, hey, I was curious!). I'm wondering where to post the *real* question. The *real* question is this:

How would a gay man view a pregnant woman? Is she farthest from being sexual to him than just about any other woman because she's carrying a baby and, like some straight men, this is a little scary--or is she furthest because she's the most womanly a woman can be (no pregnant men)? Or is she actually not as far out of sexual bounds to most gay men as some other women?

 

[krd-tld]

Interesting Question...

A comment or two...

Concerning male to male contact..... MANY MANY men have occasional fantasies of touching( masturbating) or even fellating another PENIS. But the thought of being sexually intimate with another MAN is disturbing.... This desire is most likely an extension of masturbation, where a man learns that its not JUST his penis that enjoys being touched, but that he( his hand) enjoys the feel of the penis. Curiousity takes hold, wondering what it would be like to touch a penis not ones own. Also, many men would if they could masturbate by sucking their own, and since the majority cant, find themselves imagining sucking on another man's penis. The key is... we are NOT attracted to the other MAN, but to the eroticsm of experimenting with a penis other than our own. There is no homo or even bisexuality in this...and this creates a bit of a confusing connundrum for straight males with these desires. Add to this a society in which even mentioning such thoughts by a hetero male is taboo. He can never understand and accept his desires if he keeps it a shameful secret, he doubts privately his own sexual identity, and he lashes out in severe homophobia at anything gay not because he hates, or even knows any gays, but because he doubts himself .

That might explain something even as simple as why so few have responded to this posting....

Personally, I have two answers to this question. If I were asked what "type" of man I would choose for an intimate evening, it could be a man so feminine( NOT EFFEMINATE) he appeared to others AS a female. Like Jay Davidson of "The Crying Game", who in my opinion WAS a woman, but with the wrong body. Or... it could be with another regular straight guy just like myself who had to make the same decision. The first choice preserves the male/female roles as comfortably as possible, the second makes both participants EQUALS, each facing the same yuks and shames.

As for your nore precise question, and curiousity concerning gay men's attractions...you are going to discover if you pursue this question that among gay men as among any other group is a breadth of possible sexual expression and desire that defies any one or few answers. There will be gay men who are repulsed by women, and especially preganant women, and gay men who are not just attracted, but aroused by and even envious of her ability to nurture new life.

I can see in my mind a story that revolves around a gay couple and their single preganat neighbor... where one of the men finds her repulsive, the other sees her as increasingly beautiful not sexually, but as a carrier of life...
The bad mouthing and avoidance of the one conflicts with his partner's strengthening friendship with the woman, and eventually threatens to break up their previously strong relationship.
And the woman, at first leary of her gay neighbors, but getting to know them discovers that not only does she like them once she gets past her prejudice, but she finds their choice to be a monogomous couple in a gay world of promiscuity to be very admirable... when she discovers the fights she is overhearing are about HER .... she too will be asking the very question YOU are asking...

What kind of story are YOU creating? And may I suggest you take a look at the showtime series "Queer as Folk?" I started watching it believing it wouild help clear up some of my prejudice against gay LIFESTYLE by showing a more realistic view than the one I had from the media. Well... what it did was introduce me to a variety of gay characters almost all of whom I like and would enjoy knowing or even count as friends of they were my neighbors, while at the same time CONFIRMING rather than dispelling my worst feelings for the lifestyle.

My whole viewpoint has shifted tremedously with a little education, but I dont actually know any openly gay men, let alone have any friends who are gay, to discuss reality with. Is this show an accurate portrayal or just another media misrepresentation?

But I do now believe one thing....our society really has its head up its ass. We condemn the promiscuous lifestyle we believe gay men live, while at the same time deny them the right to the commitment of marriage. I dont care whether you call it marriage, legal union, or whatever. IF you are going to claim your nation represents EQUALITY for ALL, then that MUST include gender equality. And denying any two PEOPLE the right to legal union based on their same gender is as unconstitutional as the racist laws which used to forbid mixed race marriage.

By the way, when you asked this question did you consider how many different ways a person might interpret "have sex with" as meaning? It actually makes a difference in my imaginings....Is it mutually oral? Am I top to a bottom? or Bottom to a top? DO gay men switch off top and bottom with a partner? Just how the hell does a bottom get off?

Your damn question has me suddenly asking a LOT of questions about gay sexuality which I am very uncomfortable with... after all, I am one of those men who for years wondered how I could possibly find myself aroused at the thought of masturbating or sucking another cock yet not feel anything but yukked when considering you couldnt get one without it being attached to a man. I spilled that secret to my wife who encouraged the exploration which led to discovering a wide world of undiscussed variance from the sexual stereotypes. And now comfortable with THOSE thoughts, your question has me wondering if like some women I know, do gay men( bottoms) orgasm from anal sex? Since I know women who enjoy it, and apparently the bottom gays do... just what does it feel like to be... OH NO I dont EVEN want to start down that road... except it is too late, and I wont be happy until I have learned more than I ever wanted to about anal sex.
At least I can take comfort in knowing that so far all my questions have been satisfied intellectually....my wife was afraid that once she encouraged me to look into my desires I wouldnt be satisfied until they were experienced...

And thats how I ended up finding websites like this one, where good story telling, whether fiction or nonfiction, can lead the reader to "experiencing" from the comfort of his own home everything that can be imagined.... Thanks to all you authors......I am hoping to someday be able to take some of my imaginings and express them in words that can recreate them for others. I havent the talent naturally, and so am trying to learn and practice the skills.
So far unsuccessfully. CAn you guess my greatest obstacle and failing?
Brevity. I cant seem to say anything simply, without expalining every detail in tedious self analytic detail. And eventually losing the point alltogether.


HMM< much like this very posting....

But... I do love to hear myself talk.... and seeing my words "in print" on webpages is equally ego stroking... even if I have to laugh at myself for what I do write.

There are so many good writers on this site, certainly the best I have found so far, I hope some of it can rub off on me...LIKE AN ERASER, hehe

Am I still typing, whats wrong with me... stop stop stop .......what was that question, if I HAD to have same sex... who? Jay Davidson Id do, but Id rather BE DONE by Tom Selleck? So Id be choose a feminine bottom to my top, but a masculine top if I were bottom. That answer your first question?

As for preganant women and attractiveness.... there is a beauty to any woman who is preganant that transcends mere arousal, it is spiritual and uplifting, lifegiving and miraculous, that I think EVERYONE can feel no natter their gender or identity.
And then there is the most base and most crudely dirtbag dog heterosexual male response to a pregnant woman.... "hmm, she must fuck.... and somebody else must have thought she was WORTH fucking".... that makes her instantly arousing.
And if you didnt guess, I am a gemini, so I feel BOTH those things. And my wife I think only forgives me because she thinks I cant help it, being so Gemini. Only a Cancer could use such sidewase moving logic to excuse someone...which she is...

Did I mention that I seem to never be able to know when to quit, to the point I dont even know what I am writing about? Is it astrology, or was it hot pregnant women? Or ... wait, it was having to sleep with someone counter to your natural attraction... that was it, now, what was I going to say...

 

[3113]

krd-tld:

I'm sorry to have taken so long to get back to this--it's the holidays. But I wanted to THANK YOU, so much for this wonderful, long-winded response. You can sound off any time you like. It was great.

No argument, by the way, on the absurd and terrible racism toward gays. I wrote up a little 2-part gay male romance called "Bittersweet" where I touched upon my own anger and thoughts about the on-going bias toward gays and how it forces people to live in literal fear of their lives. Admitting that you're gay is still viewed as one of those unforgivable sins that can lose you family, friends, children, church and job. An affair won't cost you so much. It can even put your life at risk. No one in a free and civilized country should have to face such terrible prejudice.

MANY MANY men have occasional fantasies of touching( masturbating) or even fellating another PENIS.

An excellent point. I especially thank you for your comment on the desire to touch a penis or suck one as being a narcissistic act--a man's substitute for touching his own. And how this creates confusion for a hetero male given social taboos.

the second makes both participants EQUALS, each facing the same yuks and shames.

I like this answer. It's very smart.

I would say, by the way, that the answer most women would give is that they'd go for an equal or even more beautiful woman. I'm a little off in that area. Most girls are far more curious and interested in having sex with a woman--and there's less of a yuk factor to it. This, I think, because women are seen as beautiful and sexual and desirable. So no shame in a woman wanting one as all men do.

I can see in my mind a story that revolves around a gay couple and their single preganat neighbor... where one of the men finds her repulsive, the other sees her as increasingly beautiful not sexually, but as a carrier of life...The bad mouthing and avoidance of the one conflicts with his partner's strengthening friendship with the woman, and eventually threatens to break up their previously strong relationship.
And the woman...discovers the fights she is overhearing are about HER

VERY cool story idea! Far better than what I originally had in mind. Want to write it?

And may I suggest you take a look at the showtime series "Queer as Folk?"

I haven't gotten around to checking it out, but I have been wanting to. I will do so, certainly.

By the way, when you asked this question did you consider how many different ways a person might interpret "have sex with"

No. I kind assumed that each person would think of the way they most like to have sex with their chosen, er, sex partner, and how it might throw them if they had to do that same thing, whatever it is, with someone of the "wrong" gender.

your question has me wondering if like some women I know, do gay men( bottoms) orgasm from anal sex?

Um, dude, you do know you've got a prostate, right? Never mind the orgasms women get--if your wife is willing to find that little gland there (as your doctor does during an examination) and rub it, you will orgasm. The orgasm bottoms get is, in part, from a penis rubbing over the prostate (as much as the stimulated nerve endings in the anus. Bottoms also find it pleasuable to have a something in their rectums, which some folk do and some don't.

It was remarked on one sex program I saw that if a man is having sex, and a woman hits the prostate simultaniously during intercourse, the guy will scream out loud. It's that pleasurable and intense. Alas, I've no experience to confirm this, but that's what it's all about. YOU should get as much if not more pleasure than a woman from, well, a finger in the ass hitting your spot.

And thats how I ended up finding websites like this one, where good story telling, whether fiction or nonfiction, can lead the reader to "experiencing" from the comfort of his own home everything that can be imagined....

Ah, we're on the same page there. This place has certainly widened my understanding of human sexuality and the human condition for that matter.

Brevity. I cant seem to say anything simply, without expalining every detail in tedious self analytic detail. And eventually losing the point alltogether.

Dude, you didn't lose a thing. Feel free to type-out-loud any time. It's only by doing so that we clarify our throughts and get new ideas.

And if you didnt guess, I am a gemini, so I feel BOTH those things. And my wife I think only forgives me because she thinks I cant help it, being so Gemini. Only a Cancer could use such sidewase moving logic to excuse someone...which she is...

I'm not surprised. As a Cancer with a Gemini moon, I sympathize completely.

 

[Tiger1978]

I would say that sex with a convincing cross dresser is heterosexual, not homosexual. In the mind of both parties, the cd is female (even if she has the wrong parts!).
I don't think sex with a cross dresser would count as experimentation unless of course the straight male is taking an interest in the CD's penis.


To answer the original question. I'm straight and if I were to sleep with a man, he would have to be somewhat androgynous, though not neccesarily a cross dresser. He'd certainly have to be a submissive, passive partner.

 

[3113]

To answer the original question. I'm straight and if I were to sleep with a man, he would have to be somewhat androgynous, though not neccesarily a cross dresser. He'd certainly have to be a submissive, passive partner.

That's a very interesting point. There was that belief in the ancient world that intercourse with a man did not make you homosexual so long as you were on top. Penetration made you male, being penetrated made you less than male. So you weren't "gay"--and your acts with other men or boys weren't disapproved of, per se, unless you were on the bottom.

I think the same is true now, to some extent, with oral sex. Not only do guys think that oral sex isn't sex at all (not cheating on the wife if it's just oral sex, right?), but that it doesn't matter whether it's a man or woman doing the sucking. So long as YOU are not doing the sucking, you are still a straight, on-top male.

 

[Tiger1978]

There was that belief in the ancient world that intercourse with a man did not make you homosexual so long as you were on top. Penetration made you male, being penetrated made you less than male. So you weren't "gay"--and your acts with other men or boys weren't disapproved of, per se, unless you were on the bottom.

That's an attitude which is still around today in some cultures. I think it's similar to the attitude of guys in prison who have relationships with submissive prisoners but still consider themselves straight.

On one level it's a pretty stupid idea, but I think it does make a bit of sense and I actually sympathise with it. If, mentally you see the other person as a female - how can you be experimenting with homosexual sex? Afterall, a lot of the pleasure of sex is in the mind.

Speaking personally, I once had sex with a transvestite. I enjoyed it, and it did make me wonder whether I was bi. I concluded that I wasn't, for the reasons above and for the simple fact that I'm just not attracted to men or curious about other people's penises!

 

[3113]

That's an attitude which is still around today in some cultures. I think it's similar to the attitude of guys in prison who have relationships with submissive prisoners but still consider themselves straight.

There's a funny thing about that--homophobia is pretty rampant and strong in black communities, especially lower-class areas where a disproportionate number of black males are likely to end up in prison. These are men who maintain their macho image by having several women. Well, turns out that some of these guys who got a taste of prison (and submissive cellmates) are hooked. It's apparently become a bit of phenomonen; they sneak out on their women and have gay sex on the side. They remain on top, of course, but if it really *doesn't* matter if it's a guy or a girl giving the blowjob or being penetrated, why do they need to visit the gay guys at all as they now have womenfolk again to tend to their sexual needs?

Evidently there is something they like about seeing a male providing them with sex that keeps them coming back. In short, they were gay or bi with strong gay leanings and didn't admit or perhaps really know it until prison. Now they do...and they're sneaking around.

As for whether a person is bi or gay, I always think the best test is what one fantazies about. I know there are sexual fantasies a person can have that they might never want to do in reality...but, I also think that what one DOES NOT or does not care to fantasize about can be telling.

This does not mean that a person can't write convincing and erotically of such things, by the by. In another post, I mentioned that I was interested in foot fetishes, but not turned on by them. I could probably write a convincing and erotic story about a foot fetish guy...doesn't mean that it's an erotic fantasy that I want to have in my head before or during sex. In fact, I'm pretty sure imagining a guy licking or kissing my foot would kill my mood.

We're all pretty selfish when it comes to our fantasies. We what what we REALLY want. I think if a man is really bi or gay, men will be a part of his fantasies. And if A guy is really not bi or gay, if imagining a penis other than his own kills his sexual mood, and he needs to envision naked women to get an erection, then he's probably hetero.

The problem is, how hetero a person is is, I think, on a sliding scale. Some people are straight as an arrow and imagining or trying to do anything remotely sexual with the same sex is beyond them. Others can imagine little things but not big things. Others fall right on that bi-line at the middle, happily able to go both ways. It's a complicated world.

 

[Tom Collins]

But I do now believe one thing....our society really has its head up its ass. We condemn the promiscuous lifestyle we believe gay men live, while at the same time deny them the right to the commitment of marriage. I dont care whether you call it marriage, legal union, or whatever. IF you are going to claim your nation represents EQUALITY for ALL, then that MUST include gender equality. And denying any two PEOPLE the right to legal union based on their same gender is as unconstitutional as the racist laws which used to forbid mixed race marriage...

AMEN BROTHER!!
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of HAPPINESS
How can a self-gender oriented person pusue happiness if they are denied the simple ability to cry to the world at large that they have found the one person that makes them feel complete?