Sex scenes in mainstream novels

[MrRandyWatson]

Once I finish my current novel, an endeavor in and of itself, I have an idea for my second book, one about a couple dealing with family drama during a difficult pregnancy (loosely based off me and my wife but with a LOT of liberties taken because why the hell not.)

In any case, the couple is very happily married and deeply in love. The story is told partially in present day and partially in flashbacks. One of the ideas for a flashback scene I had was a sex scene, specifically a BDSM scene. It’s told with some humor as well as with a lot of steam, but since this is a novel I would want the public to enjoy, at what point do I dial back the sex? How hot is enough for such a work?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Why are you asking this of a bunch of smut meisters? Dial it back, wtf are you on about? Dial it up, or go talk to your editor!

Sounds like you need to figure out your audience first, if you're uncertain of the heat they can handle.

 

[MrRandyWatson]

Why are you asking this of a bunch of smut meisters? Dial it back, wtf are you on about? Dial it up, or go talk to your editor!

Sounds like you need to figure out your audience first, if you're uncertain of the heat they can handle.

That’s kind of what I’m trying to do. If something explicit and kinky is something even the most open-minded people would be shocked to find in a novel that’s not expressly a sex novel, then it needs to be dialed back. But then again, this is a post-50 Shades of Grey world, and the biggest complaint I hear about those books (other than that they’re shitty writing) is that Christian Grey is a manipulative asshole and Anastasia is a total naive pushover. The characters I’m developing are nothing like that.

I will take a crack at it and see if you think it’s too much for a novel.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Without attempting to contradict my learned colleague above and without attempting to plug the fairly flawed 50 Shades trilogy, those books sold. And sold. And sold. Granted, it was an odd phenomenon, but the the behaviour and acts included in them might be provide guidance when you are doing your rough cuts.

 

[SimonDoom]

Sounds like you need to figure out your audience first,

EB is right. If you are trying to reach a particular audience, as your original post suggests, you should consult with someone knowledgeable about that market and that audience to determine the degree and type of sex that will fly. If you have a publisher, talk to the publisher.

Your thread title indicates this is to be a "mainstream" novel rather than an "erotic" novel.

There are some authors here with knowledge of the mainstream publishing world. I'm not one of them. You might want to reveal more about your novel and the audience to which it's pitched and they might be able to give you some advice on this.

 

[Hypoxia]

Mainstream fiction presents themes forbidden on LIT. I've seen big-name 'mainstreamers' in the last half-century publish pretty raw stuff, and it sells. If you're going commercial, ask your agent or editor or publisher, not us, about where the red lines are.

 

[MrRandyWatson]

Caroline put on the last of her eye makeup, a vibrant gold and black. She smiled as she fluffed up her reddish-brown hair, freshly curled, and grinned. She looked good, and she knew it.

Jake always told her she looked amazing, and most days she believed him. But he always loved it when she dolled herself up, and on occasions alike this one, he demanded it.

She slipped on Jake’s favorite pair of stripper heels and peeked out of the bathroom. She got a glimpse of Jake, dressed in a handsome black suit. His bold red tie caught her eye, and she detected a hint of Chanel Bleu. He styled his jet-black hair into a slick business-like cut, a look that suggested he was going out to buy the tallest building in downtown Chicago. He exuded power, and Caroline couldn’t get enough.

She stepped out of the bathroom and into Jake’s direct gaze. The lights were dim but she could see all he needed to. He took her in - she was wearing his favorite perfume, also Chanel, and her eyes looked so perfect. He got a look at her soft ivory skin, her freshly manicured nails, her long legs and the heels that he adored. She stood eye-level with him, though the heels added four inches at least.

Other than the heels, she was naked.

He smiled softly as he admired her. She was breathtakingly beautiful.

“Do you like what you see, Master?” she asked warmly.

He did, but he couldn’t let on that he did. He would have taken her right then and there, but they both knew it was best to enjoy every moment and play their roles.

Jake motioned for Caroline to approach, and she did. She stood before him, completely at his mercy.

He looked into her eyes, disarming any reservations she might have had. She was all his, and both of them knew it.

“Assume the position,” he commanded, and she placed her hands on the wall. She had her back turned to Jake, her legs spread and her back bent at an angle. She looked down as Jake groped her, caressing every curve on her body.

He slipped a pair of handcuffs out of his sport coat pocket and placed one cuff on Caroline’s wrist. He used another pair of cuffs on her other wrist and placed a black leather collar around her neck. Emblazoned on the collar was the word “Bitch,” in script and written with rhinestones.

Jake continued to feel up his lover, placing his hands firmly on her ample ass. Jake adored Caroline’s plentiful curves, especially her bountiful backside. Per Jake’s wishes, her right buttock had a small tattoo on it. He had chosen it without her input and asked the artist to put it on her body, sight unseen. Of course, Caroline had agreeed to all of this in advance and even made suggestions that she wanted it done. She felt completely safe with Jake, and Jake had never once abused her trust.

Jake slipped a blindfold over Caroline’s eyes and guided her to the bed. He grinned to himself, knowing she had put so much work into her eye makeup just for him to cover her eyes. He had plenty of time to look into her beautiful eyes later.

He guided her to the bed, laid her flat, and cuffed her to the headboard. He used another pair of cuffs on the hook in her collar, and Caroline was completely helpless and exposed. He felt up her extra-large breasts, caressing her nipples as she softly moaned.

Jake liked taking things a little slower with Caroline in this role. He had all evening with his lover, and he was going to make the most of it.

He teased her, her nipples erect for him, as he stroked her wet clitoris. She could kick her legs all she wanted, but she knew he wasn’t above slipping cuffs on those as well. She knew it was best to give Jake exactly what he wanted no matter how crazy he drove her.

He slid down her body and stroked his tongue along her clitoris. He flicked his tongue and the moans turned more intense.

“Fuck, why do you do this to me?” screamed Caroline as Jake continued to eat her out. He grabbed her gorgeous ass as he worked her over, almost oblivious to her cries of torture and ecstasy. The truth was, Jake could get lost in this moment - he wasn’t much for receiving oral sex, but he could give it to Caroline all day.

Caroline couldn’t say Jake wasn’t a generous lover - he never said it, but she knew he couldn’t get enough of pleasing her. It had to be an ego thing for him, making the snotty bitch across the wall jealous of the pleasure she was in with him.

Jake pinned Caroline’s legs up as he ate her ravenously. He lifted her ass up and slapped it hard, punctuating her screams with the sting of a rough spanking. He was showing her no mercy at all, reddening her voluptuous ass with every spanking.

At the same time, his mouth never missed a beat. He loved to mix the pain with the pleasure, making her associate the rough punishment spankings with the mind-blowing bliss of his hard-working tongue.

He found the spot on her ass with the tattoo, one she only saw after it was completed and healed - one she loved. It was a bold red heart drawn up to look like a lock, and inside the heart was inscribed “Property of Jake” written around the keyhole of the lock. There was a key to the lock, of course. It was on Jake’s forearm, and it was the same bold red. Inside the key was the inscription “My Heart Belongs to Caroline,” with a heart symbol in place of the word.

Jake found it fitting that he used the arm with the key to slap the buttock with the lock. Caroline was his on every possible level, and both of them knew it. He was hers, of course, but at the moment, Caroline belonged to Jake.

“What the fuck? Just fuck me already!” demanded Caroline, who knew she was in no position to make demands of Jake. Both of them knew it would happen soon enough, but Jake needed to assert his power even more thoroughly. He took off his tie and wrapped it around her mouth as a makeshift gag. He used the thick part of the tie around her mouth, stifling any possible sound she could make beyond a moan or a scream.

“What’s that? I can’t understand you,” teased Jake as he resumed punishing Caroline. He pinned her legs back and vigorously spanked her big ass, watching as it shook with every spanking. He had stopped eating her out for the moment, but both of them knew she got just as hot from being spanked after such a warmup.

Suddenly a ringing phone interrupted her punishment. Normally neither of them would dare answer a phone at such a time, but Jake had learned to be quite the tease.

It was Caroline’s phone, and the screen revealed it was Caroline’s best friend Lauren. He answered, and a surprised Lauren asked for Caroline.

He laughed. “She’s a little tied up right now,” and he talked to her while he casually teased her. “OK good; I’ll have her call you as soon as she’s free,” he finished, and he hung up and resumed eating her out.

His cock was standing at attention, desperately wanting to give Caroline what she craved. But he needed to take her to the point of no return. He needed her so hot and desperate that she would let him do anything he pleased.

He climbed up on top of her and looked her in the eyes, still fully dressed. He was missing his tie, which was firmly around her mouth. He grinned and unzipped his slacks, took out his cock, and showed it to her. It was long and thick, and Caroline worshipped it.

He slid down her and penetrated her, and Caroline let out a scream through the tie around her mouth. She couldn’t move her hands or head, and with Jake pinning her down, she couldn’t move anything but her legs. She could snap her fingers and Jake would stop immediately, a signal the two of them came up with when safe words were not an option - it was an option she had only invoked once because of a throbbing pain in her back. She was not about to do it now.

Jake thrusted in and out of his lover’s tight sex, having found the perfect spot. It went in easy and felt wonderful to both Master and bitch. Jake could get lost in this moment almost as easily as he could get lost in eating Caroline out.

But he needed to assert his authority once more. He pulled back the blindfold and stared into her eyes, and then as he thrusted into her, he clutched her throat with his hand. He squeezed tightly, restricting her airflow, as she desperately fought for air and got none.

Then he released his hand, she took in a breath, and she screamed out in pleasure. She would never admit it to Jake, but her favorite part was when he choked her. The rush she got had no equal in anything he did to her. And she knew he would do it again right away - which he did, giving her an even greater rush.

Caroline slipped into an orgasmic bliss as Jake released his hand once more, returning the blindfold to its rightful place over her eyes, and soon she could no longer control herself. She yelled out at the top of her lungs, giving Jake the encouragement he craved.

Immediately Jake felt twinges of pleasure as he knew he was about to join Caroline. He always envied her ability to have one orgasm after another, but he loved giving them to her.

He reached his own climax as Caroline amped back up into a second orgasm, and he filled her with his seed. He relaxed and pressed his body onto Caroline’s, and both of them caught their breath. He untied the tie in her mouth and kissed her lips, stroking her tongue with his.

“I love you so much,” he whispered as he kissed her. He undid the cuff through her collar and removed her blindfold, kissing her soft lips. He stroked her lovely hair and caressed her soft skin.

Caroline was still bound at the wrists, though she had talked Jake into keeping her bound after sex. Jake obliged, enjoying his beautiful loved in a helpless state a little while longer as he thought about the two of them at dinner tonight with Lauren and her new boyfriend. If only they knew what Caroline had been up to with Jake just then.

 

[MrRandyWatson]

Also, I don’t have a publisher yet, so I thought I would ask around first - get the obvious stuff out of the way so I don’t look like a total dipshit asking people who know.

 

[ElectricBlue]

That extract will get taken down as it contravenes Lit policy (no more than three paragraphs of something yet to be submitted). Also, you're trying to get advice from Lit writers for something that won't be published on Lit, so that's a double contravention of site policy.

I didn't read it, and I still say you're asking the wrong people. We're not your audience.

 

[Blind_Justice]

Even in a pre-50-Shades world, I've read enough mainstream books (Lustbader's or Clive Barker's spring to mind) which portrayed all kinds of raunch. Just be prepared to be hit with an explicit content tag when self-publishing. Because sex = ewww, even if it makes big bucks.

 

[KeithD]

I publish both in the mainstream and in erotica (with publishers, both). There are sex topics I could get away with in the mainstream that distributors won't take in erotica. Sex is incidental in what I can get published in the mainstream, although it can be graphic to an extent. Sex is more central in what I can get published in erotica--and can be very detailed. Can't comment on how much BDSM can be put into a mainstream book (undoubtedly Grey opened that field up, though), because I don't deal with BDSM in the mainstream.

 

[Hypoxia]

Even in a pre-50-Shades world, I've read enough mainstream books (Lustbader's or Clive Barker's spring to mind) which portrayed all kinds of raunch. Just be prepared to be hit with an explicit content tag when self-publishing. Because sex = ewww, even if it makes big bucks.

Get the point across by writing Confessions Of A Father-Raper. (Thanks, Arlo.)

 

[gunhilltrain]

Get the point across by writing Confessions Of A Father-Raper. (Thanks, Arlo.)

Those guys on the Group W bench.

Mainstream novels: I recall that Faye Greener in The Day of the Locust was only sixteen. The movie version lost its nerve perhaps: Karen Black was about 36 when she played the role. The character's age was never specified (she was definitely younger than 36 but likely beyond eighteen).

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Read pretty mainstream to me...

It wasn't altogether too bad as writing goes, in fact, like I said, it was exactly like what I would expect from a normal adult fiction novel today. In style and content.

 

[Hypoxia]

Mainstream novels: I recall that Faye Greener in The Day of the Locust was only sixteen.

Underage sex is and has always been common. In colonial America, the age of consent was 10. Until recently, statutory rape (of a minor not his wife) was seen legally as a property crime, devaluing the ripe (white) victim. Raping non-white girls was okay. (Statutory Rape In Historical Context pdf) Don't expect mainstream fiction to ignore the obvious.

 

[ChloeTzang]

There’s every variation under the sun in mainstream fiction. First, what’s your genre and who are your target readers. You have to know who you’re writing for. That right there determines the type and hotness of the sex and the level of explicitness. Erotica is heavily oriented to the sex. In mainstream the sex can be there but it’s not central. Sex in women’s lit is handled a lot differently than for men’s, with a much bigger emphasis on the romantic elements. Your excerpt says your writing for men.

On the whole I’d say the questions you are asking demand a lot more explanation than you’re going to get here and there’s a lot you need to clarify for yourself in terms of your target audience. That by itself is the driver for how and what you write. Clarify that and you’ll get some more useful answers. But if you clarify that, understand your niches and find some best selling authors in that niche you’ll answer your own questions.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Also, do guys read family dramas? Seems more like a womens romance topic to me.

As for the excerpt, almost all tell. Very little show. Take so e bestselling novels I the genre you’re writing in and look at how they do it. Look at style, detail, tension, flow. All that basic stuff. I’d suggest writing on Literotica to improve first before self publishing and also writing workshops where you’ll get those critiques but whatever.... you learn by doing

 

[MrRandyWatson]

I should clarify - that wasn’t an excerpt. I wrote it offhand based on my own thoughts on the characters, and I suppose it would have been different if it were bracketed by stories about my characters. It would be subject to endless rewrites just as most novels are, and it would be in a lot more context.

I was more going for what a reader would expect from a novel in terms of sex, like how explicit I can get or should get without deciding it’s another 50SOG rather than something you can buy at Costco (which may also have included 50SOG; I’m not sure.) As far as content, and if I were to publish a scene like that here, it would be flushed out more, no doubt.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Got it. Explicitness? Just check out a few hot romances. The sex is fairly explicitly described but not at huge length. 50sog was one, “Bared for You” is another big seller where it gets pretty hot for mainstream.

 

[KeithD]

I think I answered the question. I've been continuously published in both the mainstream and erotica for nearly twenty years now. You can't determine a specific manuscript theoretically. You have to have it written and have it out there to see how it goes under the conditions at the time.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Even in a pre-50-Shades world, I've read enough mainstream books (Lustbader's or Clive Barker's spring to mind) which portrayed all kinds of raunch. Just be prepared to be hit with an explicit content tag when self-publishing. Because sex = ewww, even if it makes big bucks.

Clan of the Cave Bear. I don't think anybody was buying that for the detailed descriptions of flint knapping.

Or at the really creepy end, Piers Anthony's "Firefly".

 

[ChloeTzang]

Clan of the Cave Bear. I don't think anybody was buying that for the detailed descriptions of flint knapping.

Or at the really creepy end, Piers Anthony's "Firefly".

I LOVED all that Stone Age technology stuff. The flint knapping, the food, the herbal stuff, the horse and the dog and the hunting. It was wonderful.

 

[tomlitilia]

Each to their own, but I typically find sex scenes in non-erotic fiction a nuisance. To me, sexuality is very different part of the brain, and unprompteded attempts to turn me on just falls flat. If I want erotica, I read erotica. I'm sure there are instances where an erotic scene drives the story, but I can't think of any.

 

[SimonDoom]

Each to their own, but I typically find sex scenes in non-erotic fiction a nuisance. To me, sexuality is very different part of the brain, and unprompteded attempts to turn me on just falls flat. If I want erotica, I read erotica. I'm sure there are instances where an erotic scene drives the story, but I can't think of any.

When I was a teenager, though, I loved finding the dirty parts of otherwise mainstream novels. That's how I got my erotica fix. I wasnt exactly going to carry a copy of Story of O around my parents at the age of 13. Nowadsys with the internet and the omnipresence of porn I suppose mainstream fiction is unnecessary for this purpose.

 

[ElectricBlue]

When I was a teenager, though, I loved finding the dirty parts of otherwise mainstream novels. That's how I got my erotica fix. I wasnt exactly going to carry a copy of Story of O around my parents at the age of 13..

Lol. I borrowed my dad's copy of O, and 120 Days of Sodom, also Fanny Hill, several other classics. And his Oui mags. An unusual teenage-hood, I suspect.