Sex or Story?

[macdanife2000]

Is it a waste of time developing characters as you might in a novel or other short story.

When I write I like to develop a character ove a period of time and include the details that you would expec from an accomplished author.

Is this a total waste of time in your opinion?

 

[Monazwx]

Never

It's never a waste of time to develop your characters. They're the meat of the story and make the sex scenes believable. My view is that if the characters are crappy, the sex is going to be a little more drab (or in some stories, alot more drab). Thus, the story sucks.

So keep developing those characters. In the long run, everybody wins.

 

[Hitchhiker]

Mona hit the nail on the head.

Characters are all part a parcel of a story for me the ladies most of all. They come in all shapes and sizes and this makes a difference to how the sex will run. Large breasts have to handled totaly differently to little ones. The physical wieght of the partner also makes a big difference. I can lift 55kgs but 85kgs beats me. How the mood of the people is, their background like and dislikes all effect how the story will run.

So keep creating those characters they are the story.

 

[wildsweetone]

character development - uh oh

it's ok to leave the majority of the description of the character up to the reader. they're not all babies who need hand feeding, some are actually intelligent enough to picture a fully fledged character with only the briefest description given by the author.

the skill shows with the author who knows how to leave enough to the imagination of the reader so the reader gets the fullest satisfaction from the story.

 

[Quint]

I have a "How-To" on the way entitled "Creative Construction of Character" where I mention things related to this. I agree with you, WSO, on not spelling out a character, if you mean what I think you do. In essence, my article is a rant on those paragraphs where every physical detail is spelled out all at once, as well as suggestions for scattering description throughout the story. But that's more description than characterization. That is sadly lacking in most stories. I haven't been ambitious enough to do this, but I bet I could rather easily compile a short list of types of people that 90% of the characters here could fit into, e.g. "always been a slut, innocent but will be a slut, is persuaded to be a slut," etc. Please, if you can make a character REAL, do so! It is worth it. The majority of readers probably won't notice, so if you're going for quantity, you should probably not spend too much time and heart on it. But I cherish the intelligent feedback I get more than anonymous votes, so it isn't a sacrifice for me to spend said time and heart.

 

[Whispersecret]

Quint hit the nail on the head. Character description is different from character development. Character description is explaining the physical characteristics. Development is moving the character from one state to another through change. The change can be physical, emotional or mental. It can be large or small.

Mac, it's never a waste of time to write your very best. Do everything you are able to do to make your story as good as you can make it. The degree of character development will differ with each story. I suggest you select some stories of a similar length to yours that you really enjoyed. Analyze how the author developed the characters, how far he/she took them.

 

[Hitchhiker]

This thread has been most enlightening thanks every body.
I'm now going to look at my characterisations aliitle more closely
This is a wonderful club to be part of.
Love you all

Imagination~The highest kite we can fly!

 

[wildsweetone]

it never ceases to amaze me what i learn when i shut up and listen...

 

[Riven___Caulfield]

Lack of descriptions.

It's usually not so much we're told about a character, but what we're shown through their actions that makes us care about them.

Hearing Paul say that Chuck is the bravest lad in the land isn't quite the same as reading about how Chuck leaps across the gorge to run into the burning house and save fifteen orphans.

It's always better to show than tell. For me, anyway.


Thanks,

-Caulfield

 

[macdanife2000]

Sex of story?

Thank you everyone for your replies, at least I know I'm not just spinning my wheels here.

Keep it up as we like to say.

 

[MysteryWriter]

waited to respond

I intentionally waited to respond to this thread. I did so mainly because I champion the cause of the under developed character. The hero who you see in your mind but are never told about. You see his/her actions and decide for yourself the why of it all.

I once asked a few readers to physically describe a character in a novel I had written. Each had a description and they were remarkably close to one another. Of course the character was never described at all. We tend to invest the characters we read about with traits we would like for the to have. In doing so the story becomes more personal to us.

I have a confession to make. I have learned a great deal the last few weeks. I learned it by writing the very short pieces that I have been cranking out with sickening regulatity. What I have learned, is how really little I need to write about the character for people to 'understand' him/her. Most characters are universal. We all know people like the characters in most stories.

The small threads began as a lark or worse, but I find them much more challenging than I expected. I also find that I am forced to pad longer stories now. Okay I am a goofball but it is a lesson on how minimalism can effect your writing.

I will never match Killer Muffins, "He Died." But I do think the three and five hundred word stories were a learning experience.

 

[TheEarl]

Quint is absolutely right - It depends on what you want from your story. If you want a small select band of readers who will love your work, then you need to build up the characters. If you just want people who will write inane anonymous feedback, then just go for sex above story.

The Earl

 

[MysteryWriter]

truth is

I have a very short attention span. I never did well in classroom lectures or any other thing that didn’t hold my interest. I suppose I will never be an elitist, too bad for me. Anyway I find long overdone characterization a total bore. I character needs to be defined, but how you define it seems pretty much up to the writer. One may be about as good as another. That is if it doesn’t put the reader to sleep.

As for sex, I don’t write much of it anymore so I am no authority on it. I think that it probably is what the people who come to this site want. I do agree that reading about sex is more fun if you care about the people, I am not sure I need to know her bra size to do that. But then what the hell do I know.

ps i know there are drugs for the attention span thing rofl

 

[Quint]

Quint is absolutely right - It depends on what you want from your story. If you want a small select band of readers who will love your work, then you need to build up the characters. If you just want people who will write inane anonymous feedback, then just go for sex above story.

The Earl

I've been read! ::does a happy dance::

Ooh maybe I have something else to put on my post.

 

[Quint]

Re: truth is

I have a very short attention span. I never did well in classroom lectures or any other thing that didn’t hold my interest. I suppose I will never be an elitist, too bad for me. Anyway I find long overdone characterization a total bore. I character needs to be defined, but how you define it seems pretty much up to the writer. One may be about as good as another. That is if it doesn’t put the reader to sleep.

As for sex, I don’t write much of it anymore so I am no authority on it. I think that it probably is what the people who come to this site want. I do agree that reading about sex is more fun if you care about the people, I am not sure I need to know her bra size to do that. But then what the hell do I know.

ps i know there are drugs for the attention span thing rofl

You will always be an elitist, darlin. As to this post...

Your lack of interest in writing sex seems to have rubbed off on your interest in reading it. Admittedly, the reader undoubtedly will provide Character A's measurements to their personal gratification if you fail to provide them, but there is a certain appeal to knowing what the author intended. I agree that overcharacterization is a sin (haha) but you kind of left that undefined and vague, so I don't know to what extent I agree with you. Your 300 word stories are clever but not particularly satisfying in the long run, for the very reason that there is a limited amount of stuff you can put in 300 words. I like SOME description that I don't have to provide myself. My characters all start to look alike eventually. I do agree that finding out a character's personality based on actions is the best (time for another plug?), but physical description should be provided, if scarcely.

Remember the discussion on foreplay other than visual? We've come to the conclusion that visuals are not the only way to arouse your partner (or the reader)...but they sure are nice. It makes the story a little more explicit. For those of us with intact libidos (teasing!), explicit is nice.

And yes, I do always have to have the last word. o)

 

[MysteryWriter]

you may indeed

have the last word but it won't be just yet. Well as for the lack of sex thing I do admit that time has taken a toll on me. (That was toll not troll). I have always perferred the written word to the visual image though. I don't get aroused by video but I do by a good story because I can't picture myself in the video. I am the kind of reader who can bring his imagination to the piece and that is who I write to.

I also never thought a character should drive a storey. That is a different school of writing. Those stories long and short bore hell out of me. If you read any of my work, either the threads, the short stories or my novels. you will find they are plot driven. In a plot driven story, sorry.. In the plot driven strories I write, the characters are defined almost soley by what they do. I never do more than give a tiny discription of the character. Even that is more a personality trait than a physical description. Again it is my belief that the reader well fill in the blanks and be happier for the exercise.

When I first came to lit, I did post erotic (Hell they were pure porn) so I can write it dear. I had great reader numbers and good votes to a point. I wrote them the same way is my point. I don't think that overblown characters do any better then barebones characters. There are readers for both.

I might as well toss one more thing in here but I won't.

 

[MysteryWriter]

oh what the hell,

I dont think when god gave moses the ten commandments, he also gave him carvings stating the laws of the written word. I am probably wrong on that. I am sure somewhere with the lost tablets there are a couple of more explaining how I must write to be acceptable.

Sure the short thread was a joke at first. I had no idea I could really write consistant closed ended pieces of three hundred words or less. Funny thing is I found (and so did at least some of the other writers) that nothing earth shaking was lost when the story was cut to the bone.

It is true some folks don't like them, but then I can't get through a lot of the more popular writers here either. I guess it comes down to different strokes for different folks.

In the end, like it or not, like me or not, you can do a complete story with all the elements and even a little humor or moral in it with very few words. (Now comes the shameless plug) Maybe some people can't do it. Maybe somepeople have their backs so stiff they dont want to try it. Maybe they think trying it for real is an admission of pomposity. Then again maybe it is just me rofl.

 

[Whispersecret]

It bears repeating:

Character description is not the same as character development or characterization!

 

[KillerMuffin]

Hear here!

MW reminds me of Don Pendleton.

Anyway.

Character development and character description are two different things. I rarely give the basics in physical description, eye color, hair color, skin color, or measurements. I describe the impression of the body. More over, I try to describe the character's impression of the body. In two stories I tried to describe two competing descriptions of one character's body and I think it worked.

Whisper, the genius, once told me if it doesn't forward the plot, don't stick it in there. I lost about 5,000 words from 20,000 that day.

To me, character development is making the character dimensional to the reader. Character development is taking it from someone we see on the street or on TV to someone we would like to hold a conversation with outside of the storyline. I don't just see this character clearly, I feel the character and think that I know the character as a human being. No matter what form that character takes.

In most stories on this site the most developed character, sometimes only developed character, is the narrator. This is straight wrong in a short story, in my mind.

Quint's take on character development is a very wonderful piece of advice for anyone interested in better writing.

 

[MysteryWriter]

should I bow

to the genius... or just try to do what i do best and like to do most. NO killer not make a total ass of myself.

 

[MysteryWriter]

MW for the defense...

Somebody has to write for the common folks... Those who dont have a phd. Mysterywriter for the common man lol.. has a nice ring to it..

 

[macdanife2000]

sex or story

Well at the very least I've raised some passion about this.

Thank you all for your comments, I'll sleep less easily tonight.

 

[Quint]

Re: MW for the defense...

Somebody has to write for the common folks... Those who dont have a phd. Mysterywriter for the common man lol.. has a nice ring to it..

MW, you'll only be writing for the "common man" without PhDs for another generation or so...then the common man WILL have a PhD. Then who shall you claim to be the spokeswriter of?

Mwa ha ha! Something to think about....and an AV for me!

 

[macdanife2000]

Thank you all for your input, it's been very edifying to hear.

 

[mlyn]

If you are just writing for someone to

be able to "get off" then I don't character development, whether it is narrative or shown thru the characters actions matters.

The one thing that I have gotten over and over in feedback emails is that someone cried or shed a tear when reading a story of mine. When that happens, I know I got it right. And usually, that was also the story that had me crying as I wrote it!