Sex Offender Madness

[3113]

I was reading about a kid who is 16, had sex with a kid he thought was 16, found out she was 13 and he's now on the sex offenders list for life. Whole life ruined for consensual sex. While searching for this article, I came across this, which is about a year old.

When is this lunacy going to stop?

Girl, 13, charged as sex offender and victim

Salt Lake City - Utah Supreme Court justices acknowledged Tuesday that they were struggling to wrap their minds around the concept that a 13-year-old girl could be both an offender and a victim for the same act - in this case, having consensual sex with her 12-year-old boyfriend. The Ogden, Utah, girl was put in this odd position because she was found guilty of violating a state law that prohibits sex with someone under age 14. She also was the victim in the case against her boyfriend, who was found guilty of the same violation by engaging in sexual activity with her.

"The only thing that comes close to this is dueling," said Associate Chief Justice Michael Wilkins, noting that two people who take 20 paces and then shoot could each be considered both victim and offender. And Chief Justice Christine Durham wondered if the state Legislature had intended the "peculiar consequence" that a child would have the simultaneous status of a protected person and an alleged perpetrator under the law.

The comments came in oral arguments on a motion asking the high court to overturn the finding of delinquency - the legal term in juvenile court for a conviction - against Z.C., who became pregnant after she and her boyfriend engaged in sex in October 2003. State authorities filed delinquency petitions in July 2004, alleging that each had committed sexual abuse of a child, a second-degree felony if committed by an adult. The girl appealed the petition, saying her constitutional right to be treated equally under the law had been violated.
Her motion noted that for juveniles who are 16 and 17, having sex with others in their own age group does not qualify as a crime. Juveniles who are 14 or 15 and have sex with peers can be charged with unlawful conduct with a minor, but the law provides for mitigation when the age difference is less than four years, making the offense a misdemeanor. For adolescents under 14, though, there are no exceptions or mitigation and they are never considered capable of consenting to sex.

A juvenile court judge denied the motion by Z.C., who then admitted to the offense while preserving her right to appeal to a higher court. The boy did not appeal.
The Utah Court of Appeals last December upheld the judge's refusal to dismiss the allegation, saying the law's "rigorous protections" for younger minors include protecting them for each other. Z.C. then appealed to the state Supreme Court.
At Tuesday's arguments, Matthew Bates, an assistant Utah attorney general, argued the prosecution of the girl was not unreasonable. He said the statute in question is designed to prevent sex with children who are 13 and younger, even if the other person is in the same age group.

By passing that law, legislators were sending a message, Bates said: Sex with or among children is unacceptable.

Randall Richards, the girl's attorney, argued that prosecuting children under a law meant to protect them is illogical. "A child (victim) cannot also be a perpetrator in the exact same act," Richards said. The Utah Supreme Court will issue a ruling later.

 

[Liar]

When is this lunacy going to stop?

When there are no people left to lock the jail cells.

 

[Boxlicker101]

It is madness. They should both be treated the same way, and admonished to stop it.

I really don't like the comparison to dueling. After all, they are not trying to hurt each other.

 

[DesertPirate]

There was a funny one when I was a teen. It seems Dad caught his 16 year old daughter and her 18 year old boyfriend. Tried to press charges. When the DA explained that the age of consent in NM dated from the 1880s and was 13 he almost croaked!

I was 16 then

They have changed it

 

[_Lynn_]

There was a funny one when I was a teen. It seems Dad caught his 16 year old daughter and her 18 year old boyfriend. Tried to press charges. When the DA explained that the age of consent in NM dated from the 1880s and was 13 he almost croaked!

I was 16 then

They have changed it

A friend of my daughter's spent two years in jail for having consensual sex with his 16 year old girlfriend.
Her parents discovered it and pressed charges.
He too is listed on the Sex Offenders List.

 

[galaxygoddess]

When is this lunacy going to stop?

When people can teach their children to not have sex at such an ungodly young age?

Maybe that's just me?

Babies having sex, just... disgusting. If anything the parents should be charged.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

When people can teach their children to not have sex at such an ungodly young age?

Maybe that's just me?

Babies having sex, just... disgusting. If anything the parents should be charged.

Yeah. It's just you.

 

[3113]

When people can teach their children to not have sex at such an ungodly young age?

Maybe that's just me?

Babies having sex, just... disgusting. If anything the parents should be charged.

I don't know that the parents are teaching them this, but even if they are, why should the kids be blamed and labeled as sex offenders?

 

[LoquaciousLady]

Meanwhile, in a story fit for a redneck soap opera, a family with which I am familiar has recently gained foster parenting rights for their 19 year old son's 14 year old girlfriend who is, incidentally, the mother of their grandchild. No, no charges have been filed against the boy and apparently the state smiles upon the relationship if they're willing to let her live with the perv and his parents. Meanwhile he has knocked up a different 14 year old girl.

Is that a more suitable state of affairs?

 

[human_male]

In New Zealand it's legal to have sex at the age of twelve provided it's with someone who is no more than two years older than that.

And the adult age of consent is sixteen.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The kid's legal argument is bogus. The state legislature defines what sui juris is NOT the US Constitution. She can make the same argument about drivers licenses or work permits, and all are bogus because the legislature decides where the lines get drawn.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

People get labelled sex offender because thats how the law is written.

What do you people not get about democracy and majority rule?

If you dont like the law work to change it.

 

[Lalah]

We know that JAMESBJOHNSON. But the point is that in this case the law doesn't seem to make much sense, especially as it come to the punishment.

Do you really think a thirteen years old girl should be added to the sex offender list, and because of that have the rest of her life ruined; people shunning her and not wanting her in their neighbourhood, harassing her, having many jobs closed to her, etc. Just because she had sex with a guy her age when she was a kid?

I'd say that in this case, instead of protecting the kid the law is exposing her to more danger, harming her in fact.

 

[Luke's Angel]

We know that JAMESBJOHNSON. But the point is that in this case the law doesn't seem to make much sense, especially as it come to the punishment.

Do you really think a thirteen years old girl should be added to the sex offender list, and because of that have the rest of her life ruined; people shunning her and not wanting her in their neighbourhood, harassing her, having many jobs closed to her, etc. Just because she had sex with a guy her age when she was a kid?

I'd say that in this case, instead of protecting the kid the law is exposing her to more danger, harming her in fact.

I have to agree with lalah. This sort of emotional overeaction on the part of parents is much more harmful then the acts themselves. Honestly what is wrong with these people that they fail to see this?

 

[Stella_Omega]

When people can teach their children to not have sex at such an ungodly young age?

Probably never. Ever. not in however many millennia we have left.

Maybe that's just me?

Babies having sex, just... disgusting. If anything the parents should be charged.

Charged with what? Failure to handcuff their daughter to a chair 24/7?

It's not just you, but yeah.


And I quite agree with JRJ-- work to change these laws. It's going to take time because we are in full-swing hysteria right now.

 

[Weird Harold]

...and because of that have the rest of her life ruined; ...

I think mother nature took care of "ruining the rest of ther life:"

The comments came in oral arguments on a motion asking the high court to overturn the finding of delinquency - the legal term in juvenile court for a conviction - against Z.C., who became pregnant after she and her boyfriend engaged in sex in October 2003. State authorities filed delinquency petitions in July 2004, alleging that each had committed sexual abuse of a child, a second-degree felony if committed by an adult.

The pregnancy probably explains why this whole situation wound up in the courts in the first place -- mandatory reporting requirements on her OB/GYN that include reporting "suspected sexual abuse of a minor" for pregnant underage females.

This is just another example of stupid "zero tolerance" laws that take away a parents right to resolve problems with their children without unwarranted interference from government agencies and don't give medical, police, or court personnel any chance to use their minds or logic.

 

[warmAmber]

Hope we all get the irony here that this happened in Utah! The state where they turn the other way at bigamy and think nothing of putting "underage" girls into marriage with 30+ year old men with numerous wives! The entire thing is outrageous!

 

[galaxygoddess]

Probably never. Ever. not in however many millennia we have left. Charged with what? Failure to handcuff their daughter to a chair 24/7?

It's not just you, but yeah.


And I quite agree with JRJ-- work to change these laws. It's going to take time because we are in full-swing hysteria right now.

More like failure to parent.

Think about it like this:

What were you doing at 12 and 13? Me I was running around my front yard playing with barbie dolls and explaining what my big awesome house was going to be like, with my big talking tiger.

What kid do you know at this age is even thinking about a "relationship"? Do these kinds of things. We all know what "Sex" invovles, we all know how "pregnancy" comes about. But who is teaching these children at such a young age about sex? That's what I want to know. How a 13 year old girl or 12 year old boy knew how to "work it".


Charge the parents with neglect, not the little kid who has grown up entirely too fast with "sexual offender".

 

[galaxygoddess]

Hope we all get the irony here that this happened in Utah! The state where they turn the other way at bigamy and think nothing of putting "underage" girls into marriage with 30+ year old men with numerous wives! The entire thing is outrageous!

You have a point. *sigh*

 

[emap]

So I actually gotta say a 13 year old girl having sex with a 12 year old is not that unusual anymore. Think about it this way, visually age the young women at the store and then ask them how old they are. I have seen girls who I was positive were 16-17 and they were 13, if that.

Not to say the fact they apparently did not use condoms is a good thing. I mean good greif, did their parents tell them sex is only for two people in love and leave it at that? The problem with this is two fold, the hormones given to cows ends up in the milk and ages our children faster than normal. I did not really have breasts until almost 15, 11 year olds are running around with full breasts now.

The parents are also not telling their kids about sex, apparently leaving it to the school and the belief they will wait for marriage.

Oh threefold, the laws are poorly written, they should be written to not include anyone under 14. Far as I know most states did not make the laws that vague.

 

[lushlucid]

twelve year olds having sex
crikey

 

[Liar]

Thing is, if the law start looking at consentual adolescent sex as ok, they'll open up a whole different can of worms. Because being thirteen is bloody weird.

When I was twelve, I can't remember any sex going on among kids I knew. (At least I wasn't getting any), but a year or two later, there was a whole lot of "consentual" sex happening. (And I still wasn't getting any, dammit)

Consent by social bartering
Consent by nagging
Consent by peer pressure
Consent by beer

And yes, some actual consent too, but it was clearly in the minority.

And those who got caught by adults, did of course tell them that "Yes, maybe we shouldn't have done it and yes, maybe we're too young, but it was like totally consentual, I swear, and we like totally love each other, and we were even like totally responsible and used protection and everything (as if)". Because telling the truth would be more trouble for both, with the schoolyard rumor mill at full throttle and adults prodding what little private life they have left.

Not saying what the solution is. Only saying that a lot of seemingly consentual sex between young teens, is not.

 

[rgraham666]

The people who put this law in place were not trying to weed out and punish sexual predators or child abusers. They were trying to make sex illegal.

They succeeded.

And some kids have to bear the consequences of that because some people are uptight prudes.

Humans.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LALAH

If you step in shit the shit remains on your shoe until you remove it. Whining about the injustice of it changes nothing.

 

[Guest]

More like failure to parent.

Think about it like this:

What were you doing at 12 and 13? Me I was running around my front yard playing with barbie dolls and explaining what my big awesome house was going to be like, with my big talking tiger.

What kid do you know at this age is even thinking about a "relationship"? Do these kinds of things. We all know what "Sex" invovles, we all know how "pregnancy" comes about. But who is teaching these children at such a young age about sex? That's what I want to know. How a 13 year old girl or 12 year old boy knew how to "work it".

Charge the parents with neglect, not the little kid who has grown up entirely too fast with "sexual offender".

No offense, sweetie, but I teach this age.

I don't know of a 12-year old who still plays with Barbies. Or who believes that Hobbes is actually real.

My daughter included (just turned 13) but these kids have My Space and Facebook pages. They are electronically savvy, owning iPods, laptops, cell phones. The movies marketed towards them are loaded with sexual innuendo and for the most part, the kids understand the references.

Things are different now. You cannot honestly compare when WE were that age with what is happening today. Things are different.

Do I believe my child is old enough for sex? No, of course not. Even if physically she is developing into an adult we know that emotionally she would not be able to deal with the issues. As we've told her, there is plenty of time for that. You have the rest of your life for that. Have fun doing kid things now. Don't clutter up your junior high and high school life with unnecessary difficulties. Be a kid now.

Now as to adult responsibility - should the parents be aware of where their kids are? Of course they should. And we always know where she is. But you cannot chain them to a chair. You can't keep them at home forever. Even now we see our daughter pushing us away (gently) as she is trying new things. Isn't that what is supposed to happen?

We hope she will remember what we've taught her. We hope she'll think before acting. But children will not always do what they've been taught. Children will not always think before acting. Children can easily forget years of good advice and make major mistakes.

So can adults.