Sex and Emotional Connection

[AKentuckyLady]

As part of my ongoing process to educate myself about my submissiveness and also be able to separate fact from fiction, I read a book today called "Conquer Me: Girl - to - Girl Wisdom About Fulfilling Your Submissive Desires" by Kacie Cunningham.

This is a book written by a submissive for other submissives. And something in Chapter 8 struck me as so profound that I wanted to share it and see what other thoughts are on the subject of sex and connection.


"...I speak of the tendency, as I have seen it, for people (I have noticed this most among submissive women, but that is not to say that others don't feel it as well) to ask for sex when what they really desire is some other, deeper level of emotional connection. Often, the invitation for sex is issued out of fear of rejection: while it would be a blow to a woman's ego to have her sexuality rejected, it is perhaps preferable to having her heart, or her submission, or her tears, or vulnerability rejected. Also, experience has shown most women that our sexual invitations are rarely rejected, whereas our desires for further intimacy are frequently denied.

So, rather than saying "kiss me", "hold me", "touch me", "cuddle me", "comfort me", we say "take me", "have me", "use me", "fuck me". And then we strive to pull all the connection and comfort we can out of that. Perhaps we suck those moments of tenderness dry, trying to find peace, or perhaps we crave those heavy hands and dirty words, justifying to us what we are in the deep secret place of ourselves. Maybe we use that rough time to reinforce the idea in our heads that this is all we are, all we deserve, and tender touches are reserved for good girls, which we most assuredly are not - at least, not in that moment.

... Sex is also intensely personal. There are women out there...who view it much like men do - it isn't about love, it's about fun. But even those women typically require the presence of some emotion in order for it to work - chemistry, trust, respect, affection, good humor, etc. - because love or no love, sex is connection.

What kind of world have we built when it is more acceptable to ask for sex than a cuddle session? What do we value so highly that we would rather be naked and compromised physically than emotionally? What are we so afraid of anyway?

...And this goes not just for women, but for all people. I've known Dominants who felt they could be vulnerable only during sex, and so they would ask for that instead of talking about what was bothering them, or even simply as a distraction from their own thoughts and troubles.

So ask for what you really need. Sex isn't a catch-all, it's a lot of things, but it isn't a long-term substitute for emotional-level bonding. Risk the other important things. Cry, laugh, open up, talk and be honest. If what you really need is to have her listen to you, try talking to her. If what you really need is to be at his feet and not necessarily under him in bed, try asking for that. You just might find that afterward, when you do make it to the bed, that the sex is a little less clouded with all that other stuff. And you'd be amazed what you can accomplish with a little clarity."

So, questions.

1. Have you experienced this, or can you think back to a time or event when you asked for sex but you really just wanted a connection?

2. In your current or past D/s relationship, have you managed to break this cycle and speak about your needs with your Dom/sub?

3. If you're not in a D/s relationship currently, do you find that you use sex to gain the attention of others in the hope that the connection will follow?

 

[Farawyn]

I like this. I'm going to ponder and return.

 

[BlackWolf65]

I'm going to echo Farawyn's comment. This is something requires some thought in order to make a really decent response.

As a quick response, I'm going to say that this excerpt is, as AKL said, profound. I'll be back.

 

[LadyVer]

Fwiw, this is an issue for most humans. Maybe for women, more than men. It's hard for most people to know what they need at times, much less feel comfortable enough to voice it. So trust in partners and self-confidence and experience are factors. Maybe with sub and dom factors added in, it adds more complexity. I think it's impossible to take the need for intimacy out of sex. Humans are wired for both. If we could just figure out how to balance it and ask for what we need, life might be a tad easier.

 

[barefootgirl69]

A quick answer to question one is, yes. Outside of D/s, because I'm new to this dynamic, the fear of being rejected or told 'no, I'm too busy' left me to ask for what I knew will not be rejected or put aside.

 

[CutieMouse]

People, in general, suck at being vulnerable. IMO it has nothing to do with being a submissive; more an issue of society teaching us stength is good and vulnerability is shameful. Brene Brown's work on vulnerability is enlightening; her TED Talk is a must watch (again - personal opinion).

 

[cookiecat]

I was trying to form an answer but it kept getting mixed up.

Within a D/s relationship, I haven't used sex to get to that emotional connection but I have used the kinky things we do (spanking, caning, humiliation play) to get to a connected place.

When I'm feeling most out of whack or disconnected sometimes I can't express that I need help letting in even a sliver of feeling. I shut down. I don't offer up sex but maybe it's essentially the same; I'm asking you to use me or hurt me. Sometimes that leads to sex, sometimes it leads to just being held.

It's this:

or perhaps we crave those heavy hands and dirty words, justifying to us what we are in the deep secret place of ourselves.

Anyone can hug and cuddle me but if you get inside my head or know how far to push me to get me to cry or crack or say something, I know you care.

Is that weird?

What do we value so highly that we would rather be naked and compromised physically than emotionally? What are we so afraid of anyway?

I'm not as afraid of rejection as much I am of completely falling apart if I allow even a moment of vulnerability.

 

[Blue]

_____

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

My primary 'love language' is Physical Touch, followed by Quality Time and Words of Affirmation. In addition, i have a high sex drive. Nothing meets my needs for emotional connection and intimacy quite like spending time in the bedroom with an SO who gives me a lot of positive verbal reinforcement.

I learned this the hard way. I spent nearly thirty years as a sexually rejected wife and came out of marriage astonished to discover that there wasn't something wrong with me for craving sex with my partner. And that there does exist a man or two who understands how deeply, intensely soul-satisfying and emotionally rewarding it is for me to be given great sex on a regular basis within the context of a loving relationship.

To answer the questions:

1. I feel most connected through sex (with a loving partner). When I ask for sex, I actually need it.

2. I've never had a problem verbalizing my need for emotional intimacy through sex; have only had trouble getting the need met.

3. I've never used sex to get something that didn't include sex.

Not sure if my input will be of any help...

 

[BlackWolf65]

So, short answers to the questions first, then some explanation of my responses. Thank the Gods that this isn't Facebook - people here will actually read a post that's more than ten words long - and this one may get long winded. I'm not noted for brevity or being concise. It may also be pretty disjointed. I apologize for that.

1. Yes, I have, on several occasions that come to mind.

2. Yes again.

3. Of course - I'm a male.

Explanations:

1. Have you experienced this, or can you think back to a time or event when you asked for sex but you really just wanted a connection?

I have. Some of those occasions aren't really suitable for public consumption, or for revealing to strangers. But, for those times that I'll talk about...

This hasn't happened to me very often, that I'm consciously aware of, outside of a D/s relationship. I found it to be the case mostly in my early years in the BDSM community, when I was still trying to reconcile the gentle, tender side of my personality (which, as a male, I'm supposed lack completely, or at least suppress), with the Dominant who resides in my brain. It took me a long time to realize that the two aren't mutually exclusive, that in fact one requires the other.

Circumstances in my early life left me pretty much emotionally shut down for a long time. For a lot of years, I didn't know how to handle being emotionally connected with another human being. So, I'd find myself seeking sex as a way of feeling connected, of feeling valued. I suppose in some ways, I regarded being emotionally vulnerable as something to be avoided at all costs, because that vulnerability, in my mind, was just a setup for emotional pain.

My refusal to be vulnerable acted mostly as a shield. The problem was, it shielded me from a lot more than just emotional pain - it also shielded me from emotional joy and fulfillment in the context of a relationship with another human being. In that context, one can only remain emotionally cut off for so long before the other person says, "Enough. I can't live like this anymore." And the whole process starts over again with someone else.

2. In your current or past D/s relationship, have you managed to break this cycle and speak about your needs with your Dom/sub?

As I evolved, and began to really discover who I am in terms of being a Dominant, this began to happen for me. It was the D/s dynamic that showed me I can be the strong, forceful, Dominant male, and also allow myself to be vulnerable. It took the D/s dynamic bring it home to me. I owe that to the women who have been submissive to me.

Being a submissive takes an incredible amount of strength. That strength is permanently bound to the vulnerability a submissive offers to a Dominant. I finally realized, after a lot of trial and error and a lot of lost relationships, that strength and vulnerability are really, in the emotional context, one and the same thing.

Once I realized this, and took some baby steps towards letting someone truly get inside my head and my heart, a whole new world opened up for me. Submission is a gift, yes - but, in its purest form, so is Dominance. The trust required to give someone complete submission is enormous; if I want my sub to give me her full submission, then I have an obligation to open myself up to her so she'll know that I can be relied upon not to abuse that gift - or her.

3. If you're not in a D/s relationship currently, do you find that you use sex to gain the attention of others in the hope that the connection will follow?

I don't anymore. I did, for a very long time.

This brings me to something that I think can be applied to all three questions.

I heard it said a long time ago: Men view sex as the best way to obtain love. Women view sex as the ultimate outcome of love.

That's a very broad generalization, but in essence, I think it's true. Men aren't taught very well in our society about how to relate to women. We're taught that we are supposed to be big and tough and strong, and invulnerable to emotional pain. We're taught that if we're strong enough, emotionally invulnerable enough, then we'll eventually be rewarded with the love we need - even though we aren't aware that we need it, by virtue of the fact that we aren't taught that men need love every bit as much as women do.

As an aside, I think that the woman's perspective on this is much more accurate and meaningful.

Kind of moving away from the individual questions, and going into sermon mode...

When I finally grew up enough to stop using sex as a vehicle to obtain love, I found that love was given to me much more freely. It was a submissive who helped me with this, though I don't think she was aware of what was happening, really. We were still in that very early stage of negotiating and limit setting, and for some reason - probably the fact that I actually, finally felt a real emotional connection to a woman - I opened myself up to her completely. This was before any sex had taken place. It was the first time in my adult life that I had opened up enough to expose the raw shit inside of me, and let another person see the source of my pain, and the source of my need to be a Dominant. It was the first time, as an adult, that I let another human being see me cry.

A whole world of emotional possibilities opened up for me. Rather than trying to fix me, rather than seeing me as weak, she simply let me hurt. She showed me that I don't always have to be the big, bad Dominant; that sometimes I need to just be held, too, and that it's okay for me to do that. It was she who taught me that being vulnerable is also a form of strength, and I'm a much better human being - and a much better Dominant - for having learned that lesson from her.

When I stopped following my erection around, and started letting my mind and my emotions take the lead instead, I found that not only did I receive the love that I needed, but that I was able to give it in return. It's generally accepted that women value emotional closeness over anything else in a relationship, but for some reason, men aren't supposed to seek that out.

The added bonus was that the sex suddenly became at least a thousand times better than it had ever been in the past. Sometimes sex can indeed be all about the fun and the kink. But that works best in the context of a close emotional relationship. You can both let go and fuck like rabbits simply for the pure physical pleasure. But you also find out that sex is, in many ways, the ultimate expression of love. When it stops being all about your own pleasure, and you focus on your partner first rather than yourself, it takes on an intensity that I find hard to describe - and sometimes, hard to believe.

So, for what it's worth, that's my rather "all over the map" response. I have no idea if it helps, or even if I explained myself very well.

 

[whisperdconsent]

As part of my ongoing process to educate myself about my submissiveness and also be able to separate fact from fiction, I read a book today called "Conquer Me: Girl - to - Girl Wisdom About Fulfilling Your Submissive Desires" by Kacie Cunningham.

This is a book written by a submissive for other submissives. And something in Chapter 8 struck me as so profound that I wanted to share it and see what other thoughts are on the subject of sex and connection.


"...I speak of the tendency, as I have seen it, for people (I have noticed this most among submissive women, but that is not to say that others don't feel it as well) to ask for sex when what they really desire is some other, deeper level of emotional connection. Often, the invitation for sex is issued out of fear of rejection: while it would be a blow to a woman's ego to have her sexuality rejected, it is perhaps preferable to having her heart, or her submission, or her tears, or vulnerability rejected. Also, experience has shown most women that our sexual invitations are rarely rejected, whereas our desires for further intimacy are frequently denied.

So, rather than saying "kiss me", "hold me", "touch me", "cuddle me", "comfort me", we say "take me", "have me", "use me", "fuck me". And then we strive to pull all the connection and comfort we can out of that. Perhaps we suck those moments of tenderness dry, trying to find peace, or perhaps we crave those heavy hands and dirty words, justifying to us what we are in the deep secret place of ourselves. Maybe we use that rough time to reinforce the idea in our heads that this is all we are, all we deserve, and tender touches are reserved for good girls, which we most assuredly are not - at least, not in that moment.

... Sex is also intensely personal. There are women out there...who view it much like men do - it isn't about love, it's about fun. But even those women typically require the presence of some emotion in order for it to work - chemistry, trust, respect, affection, good humor, etc. - because love or no love, sex is connection.

What kind of world have we built when it is more acceptable to ask for sex than a cuddle session? What do we value so highly that we would rather be naked and compromised physically than emotionally? What are we so afraid of anyway?

...And this goes not just for women, but for all people. I've known Dominants who felt they could be vulnerable only during sex, and so they would ask for that instead of talking about what was bothering them, or even simply as a distraction from their own thoughts and troubles.

So ask for what you really need. Sex isn't a catch-all, it's a lot of things, but it isn't a long-term substitute for emotional-level bonding. Risk the other important things. Cry, laugh, open up, talk and be honest. If what you really need is to have her listen to you, try talking to her. If what you really need is to be at his feet and not necessarily under him in bed, try asking for that. You just might find that afterward, when you do make it to the bed, that the sex is a little less clouded with all that other stuff. And you'd be amazed what you can accomplish with a little clarity."

So, questions.

1. Have you experienced this, or can you think back to a time or event when you asked for sex but you really just wanted a connection?

2. In your current or past D/s relationship, have you managed to break this cycle and speak about your needs with your Dom/sub?

3. If you're not in a D/s relationship currently, do you find that you use sex to gain the attention of others in the hope that the connection will follow?

Thank you for posting this! i am going to show Domme this. my birthday isn't too far away and this book would be the perfect present! It may take a lot of big eyed "Mommy... please?"...

#1 was the hardest to answer at first. i had to really think on it but then the answer turned out to be easy. my relationship with Domme is very intimate, and while pleasure is a huge part of it, it isn't the end-all but rather an extension. When She is home it's amazing, Her life revolves around me and mine around Her. No matter what we are doing there's a deep emotional connection. If i am doing the dishes after dinner She will come up behind me and give me a light kiss on the back of the neck. She never lets me leave Her side or pass by without a little pat on my bare bottom, which i really love. Even if it is just watching TV or She is eating i sit at Her feet with my head on Her leg while She strokes my hair. She constantly touches me, caressing, patting or kissing me, or will hold me in Her arms for hours. Every night She puts me in the bathtub, kneels next to it and bathes me. Even the things She does, like when She is sitting at the computer, looking to see where i went, what i did, read or posted or reading any messages i received or when She goes through the house to see that i did my chores properly i feel that connection. And the same goes for when She restrains me and uses the flogger or crop on me, puts the clamps on me, or drips hot wax on me, whether for pleasure or as punishment, i feel deeply connected to Her. When She is at work and i am alone, doing my chores, i miss Her terribly but i still feel Her with me. Sometimes, not often but once in a while, i miss Her so much it hurts, and every single time She has called to check on me as if She could feel what i was feeling.
The sexual part, whether rough and dirty or tender lovemaking, makes me feel as if we are one, joined together as a single being, even when it is one-sided. The taste of Her is so amazing, so familiar and comforting that no matter how i feel it always makes everything better. i can drift away to a wonderful place on nothing more than the pleasure i give Her.
i have never had to use sex for a connection, is what i am saying, because that connection is always there.

#2 doesn't apply i guess because of my answer to #1, but i will say that i have never had the need to ask or express my needs. She knows me so well, so intuitively there's never been a need. If anything She is the one who showed me what i need when i didn't know what that need was, and i can honestly say She has yet to be wrong.

#3 Being raised in your typical religious family... who have long since abandoned me... i was taught that submission to your husband was natural and proper. i can't say i used it to make a connection for myself as much as i thought that that connection was something made by allowing boys to 'have their way with me' whether i wanted it or not. If that makes sense.

 

[AKentuckyLady]

I want to thank you all for your replies to this thread, and the section I posted. So, now some of my thoughts.

First, I've never been in a true D/s relationship. I've had two marriages and I found myself pushed into a position of dominance in those relationships - not in a sexual sense, but in a financial/responsibility/leadership sense. I was always the one that made the most money, was more mature and level headed, took care of the bills, made decisions about large expenditures, moving, house buying, vacations, you name it. It's ultimately why those marriages failed.

In between marriages, I had a long-term boyfriend that was dominant, although he didn't define himself that way and I had no idea what that meant during that period of my life anyway. However, he was only dominant in the bedroom. Outside of it he was a batshit crazy hot mess.

It's that relationship that has stayed at the forefront of my mind more than my two marriages. The feelings I had, the satisfaction I took from his dominance was also a reminder of the fantasies I had when I was a teenager.

Only after my second marriage was over (I divorced him in January of this year) have I been on Lit and started doing some major introspection of myself, my wants and needs and desires. So exploring the D/s world has been something I've committed to over the last six months or so.

It's been pointed out to me that the stories I write all have a D/s thread running through them unconsciously, which surprised me when it was pointed out by several people I trust. So that's why I'm on the path I am now - am I a submissive? Am I a bottom? I need to know.

So, to answer these questions I posed for all of you:

1. Absolutely, I can think of many times I wanted a connection and used sex to get it. And I've always been disappointed afterwards, and often upset and sad.

2. Since I've never had a D/s relationship - only played with others in a D/s way, I find it difficult to answer this. But I will say that only very recently have I found someone that I believe is the Dom I've been wishing and waiting for and we just had a discussion Saturday night about this very topic. Which made it a deja vu moment when I read this passage the next day.

3. Have I ever used sex to gain the attention of others and hope the connection will follow? Yes. No doubt about it, and that's why this passage struck a nerve in me. It was like someone showed me a mirror.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[FelicityJohns]

As I was saying to AKL earlier: I've a hard time identifying because in my marriage the roles were reversed. Sex was something I was denied (and having a high drive, it was often) regularly, to the point it felt like rejection. I now have a difficult time approaching a man for sex, because I assume I'll be told no.

Along with that, though, I also kept my emotions pretty close. I felt if he didn't want one part of me, he didn't deserve the other. So I reverted to my childhood means of self-containment and self reliance.

In dealing with a man who wants sex as much as I do, I'd say that yes, the role has flipped again. I need the intimacy and closeness, but the sex is easier to request... or easier to get.

I don't use it as a means to an end though. Never have. That strikes me as manipulation. I tend to more use it to pacify the need for the emotional when I'm not being fulfilled there. A distraction.

On the contrary, when I start feeling neglected in either way, I begin to withdraw. It is safer to go back to being that self-reliant individual than to ask for anything and risk being denied. Get it enough and denial starts to feel very personal.

As to how it relates to D/s, I'm far too new to it comment. Ask me again in a few years

 

[cookiecat]

This has been a good thread to read today. I mistake being stoic and closed off as being strong. Staying open and vulnerable with the possibility of feeling hurt takes a ton more effort. If I stay open, though, I allow for the good stuff to seep in, too. Staying closed keeps me in a dark place, even if that place feels safe.

I appreciate all the thoughtful answers.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[cookiecat]

This has been on my mind a lot today. I have been trying a lot in recent weeks to be more open and vulnerable in my relations with others. It resulted in making me want to retreat quite badly, and perhaps jump to unfair conclusions about others through the mists of my own vulnerability, when in fact, being more ....honest about the vulnerability, and 'truthful' about that aspect of my 'meness' makes for better personal connections. It's hard to maintain while building walls elsewhere for me. But buildings have Windows...so!

Maybe we have to learn to put our windows in the right place so we can be in the light, and show our vulnerability to the right people but still have walls against poor weather and hostility. More than basic emotional architecture!

Yeah - I like to think the bricks I used to build this wall aren't perfect and actually let a little light shine in. Windows sound better; more possibility of getting out.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Blue]

_____

 

[cookiecat]

We could even try doors, shutters....

A pretty wall. Windows and doors. It's a good start.

The windows in my feelings-building illuminate the internal guard towers on the moated Great Wall which serves as the frontier ahead of the Spiked and Poisonous Barricade which in turn acts as a final barrier ahead of the Epic Bulkwark which keeps the unruly mobs from getting too close.

The Spiked and Poisonous Barricade and the Bulwark also have a giant swamp of despair between them. The only navigable pass is layered with mines and covered by hidden sniper positions.

My moat just has koi.

A giant swamp of despair! That does sound a little familiar.

How does one get in?

If someone's made it through the barricade, the barriers, the moat and the sniper, will you let them in?

 

[Blue]

_____

 

[barefootgirl69]

*snip*

When I finally grew up enough to stop using sex as a vehicle to obtain love,

Thank you for sharing, BlackWolf.

This highlighted portion is what I want to focus on.
Many parents fail to realize that they are teaching their children the things that they will carry with them into adulthood.

As a product of a violent, failed marriage I learned that sex was the way to please a man, keep him happy - whether I wanted to or not made not difference. It stood to reason that, in giving him sex, he was loving me, right? That he would treat me good, and care for me, etc. I couldn't have been more wrong.

Like BW, I had to grow up and realize that my actions were the worst thing for me, that I was allowing myself to be used and that caused me to become angry, at myself and at him. It's not worth it. I'm learning that two people can care for each other, be generous with each other, build each other up, and it isn't all about sex, it's about caring for one another.

 

[cascadiabound]

... Sex is also intensely personal. There are women out there...who view it much like men do - it isn't about love, it's about fun. But even those women typically require the presence of some emotion in order for it to work - chemistry, trust, respect, affection, good humor, etc. - because love or no love, sex is connection.

What kind of world have we built when it is more acceptable to ask for sex than a cuddle session? What do we value so highly that we would rather be naked and compromised physically than emotionally? What are we so afraid of anyway?

So ask for what you really need...... And you'd be amazed what you can accomplish with a little clarity."[/I]

I have been thinking about this for a few days - since AKL first started this thread, and trying to figure out what I want to contribute to it. I absolutely require connection for sex to work. Any kind of sex. But as a woman who has been with the same partner for a VERY long time I have to say that my "needs" are sometimes for just plain sex. And when we went through a patch of hardly ever actually having sex in spite of me feeling like I was constantly initiating and ASKING for sex (not jut cuddling) - I felt deeply rejected and not enough. And this is in the context of a deeply loving and supportive relationship in which I was getting lots of touch and hugs and cuddling. But what I craved was SEX. And I found it was very difficult to overtly ask for this. I began to give up on having what I wanted and needed. It totally sucked.

This brings me to something that I think can be applied to all three questions.

I heard it said a long time ago: Men view sex as the best way to obtain love. Women view sex as the ultimate outcome of love.

That's a very broad generalization, but in essence, I think it's true. Men aren't taught very well in our society about how to relate to women. We're taught that we are supposed to be big and tough and strong, and invulnerable to emotional pain. We're taught that if we're strong enough, emotionally invulnerable enough, then we'll eventually be rewarded with the love we need - even though we aren't aware that we need it, by virtue of the fact that we aren't taught that men need love every bit as much as women do.

As an aside, I think that the woman's perspective on this is much more accurate and meaningful.

Sometimes sex can indeed be all about the fun and the kink. But that works best in the context of a close emotional relationship. You also find out that sex is, in many ways, the ultimate expression of love. When it stops being all about your own pleasure, and you focus on your partner first rather than yourself, it takes on an intensity that I find hard to describe - and sometimes, hard to believe.

So, questions.

1. Have you experienced this, or can you think back to a time or event when you asked for sex but you really just wanted a connection?

Yes (in my remote past). I think probably everyone has done this if you are really deeply honest with yourself.

In some ways, as a product of post 60's feminism, some of my early attitudes about sex and sexuality mirror typical "male" patterns more than females. Especially as a result of some early life experiences, I was determined to be invulnerable to emotional pain. To be tough. To be in control of my sexuality. To in some ways use my sexuality for MYSELF - for pleasure, for advantage, for achieving pleasure and perhaps even a bit of status. To make me feel better about myself. But never in a way that allowed someone else in. I broke out of these patterns as I matured and discovered it was necessary and important to trust the person I was sexually connected to.

2. In your current or past D/s relationship, have you managed to break this cycle and speak about your needs with your Dom/sub?

I would say that any pattern I had about failing to communicate my needs for genuine connection were broken LONG ago.

I was late to discover my sub nature. And lucky that my husband has been willing to follow me into this D/s journey. So we are talking all the time. And trying to figure out how to make it work for both of us. And it is complicated.

3. If you're not in a D/s relationship currently, do you find that you use sex to gain the attention of others in the hope that the connection will follow?

N/A

I really appreciate this thread and asked that it be moved to "Talk" as it seemed to me to be quite substantive. Thank you BlackWolf for your comments. I found them most illuminating.

cb

 

[BlackWolf65]

I'm just bumping the thread. I'd like to see this discussion continued. It's enlightening for me to see these things with such clarity from the submissive perspective.

 

[j3nny01]

"... Sex is also intensely personal There are women out there...who view it much like men do - it isn't about love, it's about fun. But even those women typically require the presence of some emotion in order for it to work - chemistry, trust, respect, affection, good humor, etc. - because love or no love, sex is connection."

That's unfounded garbage. I am offended on behalf of men in general on that one. Who says men don't equate sex with affection? Really?? That is ancient stereotype. I am sure there there are as many women as men who are able to have a no-strings-attached good time as men. [In my observation of those around me I know it to be true.] I think that men in relationships feel as strongly rejected by their partner or more so with a rejection of any sort of physical intimacy. Why wouldn't they?