Serial Killers

[shereads]

XSSVE

Physical traits are things like eye color, hair color, height. Personality traits are things like anxiety, novelty seeking, aggression.

The FBI missed the boat with Dennis Rader and the DC sniper. I imagine theyre clueless about serial killers who avoid detection. So I'm thinking the serial killers who avoid detection have different traits than people like Bundy, Dahmer, and Gacy.

Maybe the serial killers who avoid detection don't exist.



Or maybe they're just more patient, more careful, never become so excited that they become sloppy. From what I've read about the archetypical serial killer, it becomes more difficult over time to achieve the thrill, as it becomes more difficult to get a drug high from the same dose. As the killer gives into the need to kill more frequently or more brutally, he becomes progressively more careless about detection.

Have you done any research on the history (the known history) of serial killings/serial-crime detection? When I read "The Devil in the White City" I was struck by the author's assertion that the murderer was America's first serial killer. (Chicago, turn of the 20th century.) Wondered if serial killings are a relatively recent phenomenon - or if it's simply that the means of connecting one murder to another, across criminal jurisdictions, hasn't existed until recently.

Edited to add: The DC snipers, Son of Sam and other publicity-hound serial killings raise the possibility that a desire to taunt police and become a public figure are a serial killer's achilles heel.

~ ~ ~


Out of curiosity, how many have you gotten away with so far?

 

[emap]

Umm there is no such thing as a serial killer who is not caught, they are all caught eventually. Serial killings are a recent thing because there used to be wars every year. Across europe the summer was spent defending or attacking a plot of land, mercenaries would be culled from all over to enforce the troops. A person twisted enough to kill people for fun, would of course flock to armies and get killed rather quickly usually.

The few who do not became barons and would then go out on wars every year, taking part until killed, or going on fox hunts. In part why wars are different from battles now, at one point anytime two groups got together to try and kill each other in groups over like 20 it was a war, not a battle.

Serial killers are all caught because they kill people for fun, same idea as skydiving or bungie jumping, they get the adrenaline rush from killing a person, they then bide their time until they just have to do it again. They are all caught because the amount of brutality they must do increases. The more damage you do to a human body the more clues you leave, not to mention time spent inside a house or apartment increases the amount of evidence you leave behind.

As for who can be a serial killer, everyone could be a serial killer. That guy in Russia was a factory worker, married with two kids. Ted Bundy was a door to door salesman, Dahmer was an office worker. A serial killer could be the homeless guy you pass on the way to work every day, or the President, or anywhere in between. Chances are pretty good Hitler was a voyuer serial killer, as in got off on the deaths he caused, I bet he got pictures of the action on the front, and I am sure got pictures of the happenings in the camps. Ever noticed how he always had his consort with him?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

EMAP

Hmmm. What was the name of Jack the Ripper?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SHEREADS

Do you give much thought to your posts?

I suppose all the victims of unknown murderers were struck down by God...no! Bush!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CAT

The military and some federal agencies employ assassins to kill targets who pose a danger to Americans overseas. If you prey on Americans outside of our borders, someone will tend to you.

 

[starrkers]

Umm there is no such thing as a serial killer who is not caught, they are all caught eventually. Serial killings are a recent thing because there used to be wars every year. Across europe the summer was spent defending or attacking a plot of land, mercenaries would be culled from all over to enforce the troops. A person twisted enough to kill people for fun, would of course flock to armies and get killed rather quickly usually.

The few who do not became barons and would then go out on wars every year, taking part until killed, or going on fox hunts. In part why wars are different from battles now, at one point anytime two groups got together to try and kill each other in groups over like 20 it was a war, not a battle.

Serial killers are all caught because they kill people for fun, same idea as skydiving or bungie jumping, they get the adrenaline rush from killing a person, they then bide their time until they just have to do it again. They are all caught because the amount of brutality they must do increases. The more damage you do to a human body the more clues you leave, not to mention time spent inside a house or apartment increases the amount of evidence you leave behind.

As for who can be a serial killer, everyone could be a serial killer. That guy in Russia was a factory worker, married with two kids. Ted Bundy was a door to door salesman, Dahmer was an office worker. A serial killer could be the homeless guy you pass on the way to work every day, or the President, or anywhere in between. Chances are pretty good Hitler was a voyuer serial killer, as in got off on the deaths he caused, I bet he got pictures of the action on the front, and I am sure got pictures of the happenings in the camps. Ever noticed how he always had his consort with him?

That sounds like a lot of wishful thinking to me. They never caught the first recognised serial killer (OK, the first well known one - dear old Jack). I'm damned sure they haven't caught quite a few. Hell, they don't even know officially know about most of them.

 

[Recidiva]

That sounds like a lot of wishful thinking to me. They never caught the first recognised serial killer (OK, the first well known one - dear old Jack). I'm damned sure they haven't caught quite a few. Hell, they don't even know officially know about most of them.

I think you're correct.

There are serial killers that purr along, managing to find scapegoats for everything they do, with double and triple backup redundancy plans, bribes and more murder and mayhem to cover up any mistakes.

It's a bit like thinking there are no more sharks in the ocean, we've caught 'em all.

Well, we've caught some of 'em. Some are smart enough to stay entirely away from even approaching being caught.

Some of them are in fact, in charge of catching themselves. Which I'm sure they think is funny.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

STARRKERS

Thirty years ago about a dozen girls were murdered in this county; no killer was ever identified.

I remain suspicious that a police officer was the killer.

 

[Recidiva]

STARRKERS

Thirty years ago about a dozen girls were murdered in this county; no killer was ever identified.

I remain suspicious that a police officer was the killer.

Police make the most obvious job to get if you're a serial killer.

Same as being a daycare worker/social worker is the most obvious job to get if you're a child molester.

Authority and opportunity.

 

[starrkers]

STARRKERS

Thirty years ago about a dozen girls were murdered in this county; no killer was ever identified.

I remain suspicious that a police officer was the killer.

Since the 70s there's been a string of young blonde girls disappear here. Bodies never found. Strikingly similar in appearance. Police have never even linked the crimes.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

RECIDIVA

Youre correct. Pedophiles go where the kids are. I've known several cops who trade sex for speeding tickets or DUI arrests.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Fortunately, as these people are mentally unstable, most tend to get sloppy eventually, Charles Sobhraj for example.

*L* Of course he's mentally unstable by definition, because he kills people. Would you consider him sane if he killed people and didn't slip up? Would that make him a sane serial killer? Is there such a thing? If there is, then anyone might be a serial killer and there's no sense trying to profile them.

If they're all insane, then there's no telling what they have in common except their insanity, and there's no sense in trying to profile them.

the btk killer, rader, was highly normal looking, church member etc. married, kids.

bundy, as everyone knows, was high functioning, smart and charming. girl friends.

iirc chikatilo of russia was pretty non descript. married with two kids.

Just my point. Nothing in common. Their motives might be similar, because one's motives for doing something are always similar to anyone else's (you take out the garbage because it smells, you scratch because something itches), but their personalities have nothing in common.

They're psychopaths by definition. Other than that?

 

[emap]

To be honest i don't think jack the Ripper needed to be caught, chances are very good he lived and worked in the same area as he killed in. Which means he was a butcher, leatherman or sailor. Since they rounded up the butchers and leathermen and it still happened, I'm putting my money on sailor. As in he did freights to France say, or farther but France being the most obvious since doing the quick runs to France and back he would be around on the days of the murders.

What nobody ever mentions is the fact that sailors of the time period tended to be drunks, and have fights alot, not to mention the fact that the police in France were not always law abiding when it comes to law breakers from a different country. It is most likely Jack the Ripper was jailed or killed after the last murder because of something he did in France or another country besides England.

Because honestly, look at what he was doing, he was leaving notes, he was brutalizing his victims to a big degreee and he was taking parts. He was also grabbing the victims in public-ish areas, does that sound like a man who could stop doing it? His victims got worse as he went along, he was on the brink of a complete getting caught breakdown when he just up and stopped, well probably anyway.

I mean dang look at the caught serial killers, they were all caught doing something on par with his last murder.

 

[Recidiva]

To be honest i don't think jack the Ripper needed to be caught, chances are very good he lived and worked in the same area as he killed in. Which means he was a butcher, leatherman or sailor. Since they rounded up the butchers and leathermen and it still happened, I'm putting my money on sailor. As in he did freights to France say, or farther but France being the most obvious since doing the quick runs to France and back he would be around on the days of the murders.

What nobody ever mentions is the fact that sailors of the time period tended to be drunks, and have fights alot, not to mention the fact that the police in France were not always law abiding when it comes to law breakers from a different country. It is most likely Jack the Ripper was jailed or killed after the last murder because of something he did in France or another country besides England.

Because honestly, look at what he was doing, he was leaving notes, he was brutalizing his victims to a big degreee and he was taking parts. He was also grabbing the victims in public-ish areas, does that sound like a man who could stop doing it? His victims got worse as he went along, he was on the brink of a complete getting caught breakdown when he just up and stopped, well probably anyway.

I mean dang look at the caught serial killers, they were all caught doing something on par with his last murder.

You appear to be making up the facts that are the most comforting.

It's the "uncaught" serial killers we're proposing.

Despite television glamorizing how great and perfect and wonderful CSI and forensics teams are, there's such a massive backlog of cases and cold cases and the law enforcement agencies are entirely overwhelmed.

Even Son of Sam was caught because he confessed while being given a moving violations ticket.

The serial killer who does not want media attention, who doesn't kill in dramatic ways, who kills most likely for some personal gain and doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks about it, other than that they don't think of him or her, is a reality.

It isn't dramatic, it isn't even noticed. Deaths appear to be unfortunate accidents and aren't even investigated.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

RECIDIVA

Right. Its not real complicated or inconvenient to stalk someone, learn their routines and habits, and arrange an encounter for murder. The tricks are patience, self-discipline, and concealment within the event.

 

[Corylea]

Umm there is no such thing as a serial killer who is not caught, they are all caught eventually. Serial killings are a recent thing because there used to be wars every year. Across europe the summer was spent defending or attacking a plot of land, mercenaries would be culled from all over to enforce the troops. A person twisted enough to kill people for fun, would of course flock to armies and get killed rather quickly usually.

The few who do not became barons and would then go out on wars every year, taking part until killed, or going on fox hunts. In part why wars are different from battles now, at one point anytime two groups got together to try and kill each other in groups over like 20 it was a war, not a battle.

Serial killers are all caught because they kill people for fun, same idea as skydiving or bungie jumping, they get the adrenaline rush from killing a person, they then bide their time until they just have to do it again. They are all caught because the amount of brutality they must do increases. The more damage you do to a human body the more clues you leave, not to mention time spent inside a house or apartment increases the amount of evidence you leave behind.

You seem to be assuming that any human being will do for a victim, that the killing is the only important thing. But the serial killers who've been caught mostly have a particular victim profile. Usually they're killing women, usually young women, and sometimes they go after a very particular type, with hair color and body type always the same. Killing other men in a war doesn't do it for them if the killer needs to kill young, blonde women for some reason.

My guess is that if the history of a serial killer is examined, they'll find some serious problem with women in the guy's past: a horrible mother, a painful rejection by a girlfriend, stuff like that.

But of course, there are plenty of people who've had horrible mothers and painful rejections who DON'T go around killing people -- I think the interesting question is what's different about serial killers that they do?

 

[R. Richard]

*L* Of course he's mentally unstable by definition, because he kills people. Would you consider him sane if he killed people and didn't slip up? Would that make him a sane serial killer? Is there such a thing? If there is, then anyone might be a serial killer and there's no sense trying to profile them.

If they're all insane, then there's no telling what they have in common except their insanity, and there's no sense in trying to profile them.

I will disagree with the statement, 'mentally unstable.' There are people who kill people and don't slip up. They're professionals. They don't kill people for their reasons, but rather for other people's reasons. They don't get emotionally involved, it's just their job. It may be that they're insane, by some definition. However, the professionals are not mentally unstable, usually quite the opposite. Professional hit men tend to be very careful, very painstaking types.

 

[SweetPrettyAss]

Umm there is no such thing as a serial killer who is not caught, they are all caught eventually. Serial killings are a recent thing because there used to be wars every year. Across europe the summer was spent defending or attacking a plot of land, mercenaries would be culled from all over to enforce the troops. A person twisted enough to kill people for fun, would of course flock to armies and get killed rather quickly usually.

The few who do not became barons and would then go out on wars every year, taking part until killed, or going on fox hunts. In part why wars are different from battles now, at one point anytime two groups got together to try and kill each other in groups over like 20 it was a war, not a battle.

Serial killers are all caught because they kill people for fun, same idea as skydiving or bungie jumping, they get the adrenaline rush from killing a person, they then bide their time until they just have to do it again. They are all caught because the amount of brutality they must do increases. The more damage you do to a human body the more clues you leave, not to mention time spent inside a house or apartment increases the amount of evidence you leave behind.

As for who can be a serial killer, everyone could be a serial killer. That guy in Russia was a factory worker, married with two kids. Ted Bundy was a door to door salesman, Dahmer was an office worker. A serial killer could be the homeless guy you pass on the way to work every day, or the President, or anywhere in between. Chances are pretty good Hitler was a voyuer serial killer, as in got off on the deaths he caused, I bet he got pictures of the action on the front, and I am sure got pictures of the happenings in the camps. Ever noticed how he always had his consort with him?

Besides Jack the Ripper who was never identified, there are other well-known serial killers who have never been identified. The best known might be Zodiac, who killed a lot of people in the San Francisco Bay Area. He has been inactive for quite a while. He may have died or been jailed for something else. Or, he might start up again tomorrow.

I don't know of any but I am sure there are others. Some of them may not have been identified as serial killers.

 

[emap]

People who kill one or two aren't serial killers, not all serial killers go after one specific person either. Zodiac being a good case in point, for him it was not for revenge, it was for attention. Chances are pretty good zodiac was drafted and died in vietnam, he stopped right when there was a pull of more draftees, well week after actually. You got a week to get your affairs in order before you had to report for duty.

Boston Strangler went after women, Ted Bundy went after young petite women. Jack the Ripper went after prostitutes mostly, There was a family in Oklahoma I think it was, they would kill visiting travelers and then eat them. All of the victims have one thing in common, they were easily gotten alone.

The current serial killers are doing it mostly for sexual release, or because she said no. Jack was doing it because he could, same with Zodiac. The ones like Jack and Zodiac killed because it was a rush, though jack may have been in need of viagra instead. Revenge killers generally are not serial killers because they do one or two and stop. Hitmen are not serial killers because they don't get pleasure in killing, they get pleasure in getting paid, same type of person who is a mercenary. Most CEO's have the same mindset.

Serial killers are different, and not different. They can be totally normal and just gotta have the adrenaline rush, hate themselves after until they gotta have the rush again. Most of the current serial killers, are doing it for the pleasure, not adrenaline but sexual. Dahmer invited people he found attractive home with him, Bundy did the same thing, the russian also. Boston Strangler was different, at first it was revenge for saying no, then it turned more into a sexual thrill. Zodiac was all about the attention, Jack was all about the attention. The only ones who can operate for long periods without being noticed ar ethe very first type, adrenaline junkies are very careful at first, eventually they screw up in big ways just like the rest.

Why they do these things are a mystery, maybe it is a bad mother, or sadistic sisters, and maybe not, Dahmer had loving parents, Bundy same thing. What is known is they need bigger and badder to be happy, at first a couple knife thrusts and posing in a certain way is perfect, then it's hundreds of stab wounds, making her beg and then posing is perfect. They all gotta have that rush, which eventually is telling people I am out here and I am coming for you next or your neighbor or your sister. They all do it eventually, besides russian guy they caught him before it got that far, though he also was easy to catch, he kept doing it where he slept so to speak.

Why there can never be an uncaught serial killer, they kill for the pleasure, no other reason for it. The pleasure is like a drug, it takes more and more to get the same high. You see the same thing in sky divers and bungy jumpers, they start off small and keep moving on for bigger more dangerous jumps. Why you see them jumping off bridges they shouldn't, parachuting in more dangerous areas.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Here ya go.

Richard Kuklinski, THE ICE MAN, murdered 200 men for the Mafia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kuklinski

 

[oggbashan]

One of the local members of the British Legion, now deceased, was reticent about his war service while others were very voluble.

When he died, we learned that he had been a highly decorated sniper in Italy in WWII. He had killed over 300 Axis soldiers, mainly officers and non-coms. During a German counter-attack he had remained hidden, then silently killed three German soldiers with his bayonet, before sniping at the advancing Germans from behind their lines.

He was a very quiet mild-mannered person...

...And a much-loved grandfather to his eight grandchildren.

Og

 

[R. Richard]

Here ya go.

Richard Kuklinski, THE ICE MAN, murdered 200 men for the Mafia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kuklinski

I read the story on Kiklinski. He was a low level hit guy for local people. He did more people than usual for that sort of guy and even had some pro skills. However, a high level guy would not have operated as he did.

 

[epiphany65]

Although there have been many theories about who Jack the Ripper was, he has never been identified and Scotland Yard refuses to release their files. There's a new theory that he may have claimed more victims than previously thought:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7601145.stm

There is also a new lead into who The Zodiac Killer may have been:
http://cbs13.com/local/zodiac.killer.kaufman.2.805799.html

There have been a series of dozens of murders over The US over the past decade-- all with similar victims (in terms of age, gender, appearance, interests, etc,) and similar graffiti at the crime scenes. It's been dubbed The Smiley Face Killers. It's a real mystery. If you do a search for it you'll find quite a few articles, but here is one with a video news report:

http://kstp.com/article/stories/s421846.shtml?v=1

 

[R. Richard]

One of the local members of the British Legion, now deceased, was reticent about his war service while others were very voluble.

When he died, we learned that he had been a highly decorated sniper in Italy in WWII. He had killed over 300 Axis soldiers, mainly officers and non-coms. During a German counter-attack he had remained hidden, then silently killed three German soldiers with his bayonet, before sniping at the advancing Germans from behind their lines.

He was a very quiet mild-mannered person...

...And a much-loved grandfather to his eight grandchildren.

Og

I'm not too surprised. He was a professional, doing a job. His total job was to protect allied soldiers. He wasn't a killer, per se, just a guy doing a very dangerous job and doing it well.

From your description, I presume his medals were what they call in the US, 'jockstrap medals.' JS medals are issued for meritorious, secret service and not publicized so that the other side doesn't maybe try for a bit of delayed revenge.

 

[epiphany65]

There was a family in Oklahoma I think it was, they would kill visiting travelers and then eat them. All of the victims have one thing in common, they were easily gotten alone..

Are you thinking of The Bloody Benders? They were from Kansas, BTW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Benders