Senseless brutality

[Colleen Thomas]

Florida Teens Accused
Of Killing Homeless
Man For Fun

Sun-Sentinel.com
5-30-5
(AP) -- Two teenagers have told Volusia County sheriff's investigators that they killed a homeless man for fun and something to do.

Christopher Scamahorn, 14, and Jeffery Spurgeon, 18, confessed to beating the 53-year-old victim with their fists and sticks and kicking him, sheriff's spokesman Brandon Haught said Sunday. They went back to the woods three times after the initial attack to beat the man again.

The teens said they attacked the man "for fun" and "to have something to do," Haught said. A group of teenagers found the victim Saturday, and the condition of the body indicated he had been dead for several days.

Spurgeon's mother told investigators Saturday that she heard there might be a body in the woods. She later told investigators that her son might have been involved.

The teens found the man in the woods Wednesday and harassed him, Haught said. Spurgeon said he punched the man in the face and left. The pair returned a short time later and kicked the man and beat him with sticks, Haught said.

Scamahorn also told investigators that he dropped a large log on the man's ribs, and Spurgeon jumped on the log several times.
An autopsy performed Sunday determined that the man died from blunt force trauma to the head and body, Haught said. The victim's name has not been released.

"We're trying to find next of kin," Haught said Monday. "He apparently doesn't have any next of kin nearby."

The pair were charged with murder Sunday. Spurgeon was being held without bail at the branch jail in Daytona Beach. Scamahorn taken to a juvenile jail.

Investigators said there may be more arrests.
Copyright 2005, Sun-Sentinel Co. & South Florida Interactive, Inc.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I usually agree with you 100%, Colly, and I do here too, except for calling the victim "an elderly man". At 53, I would call him middle-aged.

Part of my anger, Box, is that I was raised down south and we were taught to respect our elders. So it's kind of ingrained. No offense was meant by the term elderly man, but it was probably a poor word choice on my part.

 

[pop_54]

These are the exact kind of scumbags who keep me a firm proponent of capital punishment. Thrill killers. Life support systems for a shit factory. Oxygen thieves. Pond Scum. Call em what ever you think fits.

But don't call them victims. The victim was an elderly man. He was already having a hard time, and at his age nobody should be homeless. And he begged for his life. And they lkilled him anyway. The fact they are still drawing breath is an affront to my sense of right and wrong.

You are so right darling Colly, they don't deserve to be allowed to breath the same air as we... However I've been thinking on this, killing is too good and quick for this kind of animal, they need to see the error of their ways and be punished for their crime in a manner that they will suffer real pain and anguish... I believe in the death penalty for gun toting criminals and murderers, but this is a different breed of creature, and other would-be creatures of the same ilk need an example to deter them.

Prison is too soft these days, bloody television, excersise yards, phone calls, three good meals a day (three more than the real victim here) access to libraries and computers, nookie visits from the wife or G/F... What the fuck is all that about... The homelesss guys would trade their cardboard box for that any day if they weren't too proud to become criminals themselves.

Prison for major crimes of violence, ie: Wanton killing, Rape, child molestation, thuggery and antisocial behaviour should be dragged back to days of yore... 8ft x 4ft stone cell, stone slab to sleep on, bucket for the toilet, and no bloody luxuries at all... Bread and water and locked up all day unless attached to a forced labour gang.... and life should mean life for murder, until the piece of shite dies in the cell... That kind of treatment will prevent a lot of re-offending I'm pretty convinced of it.

And yes, the victims of crime are too often ignored in the great rush to defend the offenders... How often do we hear such crap... Oh poor love, of course he was bound to kill old people, his mummy tore his teddy bear up when he was young, it's not his fault, the old person shouldn't have been there anyway.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

You are so right darling Colly, they don't deserve to be allowed to breath the same air as we... However I've been thinking on this, killing is too good and quick for this kind of animal, they need to see the error of their ways and be punished for their crime in a manner that they will suffer real pain and anguish... I believe in the death penalty for gun toting criminals and murderers, but this is a different breed of creature, and other would-be creatures of the same ilk need an example to deter them.

Prison is too soft these days, bloody television, excersise yards, phone calls, three good meals a day (three more than the real victim here) access to libraries and computers, nookie visits from the wife or G/F... What the fuck is all that about... The homelesss guys would trade their cardboard box for that any day if they weren't too proud to become criminals themselves.

Prison for major crimes of violence, ie: Wanton killing, Rape, child molestation, thuggery and antisocial behaviour should be dragged back to days of yore... 8ft x 4ft stone cell, stone slab to sleep on, bucket for the toilet, and no bloody luxuries at all... Bread and water and locked up all day unless attached to a forced labour gang.... and life should mean life for murder, until the piece of shite dies in the cell... That kind of treatment will prevent a lot of re-offending I'm pretty convinced of it.

And yes, the victims of crime are too often ignored in the great rush to defend the offenders... How often do we hear such crap... Oh poor love, of course he was bound to kill old people, his mummy tore his teddy bear up when he was young, it's not his fault, the old person shouldn't have been there anyway.

After reading the details pops, I'm not even sure the Traditional British death for Traitors is bad enough.

The poor man was 110 pounds at most and frail. His assialants were 150, 180, 215 and 290.

They didn't just beat him to death. They beat him, left to get a freind, beat him again, popped over to the convience store to get soda and chips, then came back and found the poor guy trying to crawl away so they finsihed the job.

He beggeed them to stop, to leave him alone and asked what he had ever done to them.

They bragged about it, passed a lighter thy had taken off the body like a trophy, discussed forming a club to beat up other homeless people, told their girl freinds, took pictures of the body with a cell phone, took select freinds out to show them the body, and planned on getting tattoos to show they killed. One, actually did it, getting 187, the police code for homicide tqatoted on his hand.

This wasn't even a regular beating either, they broke nearly all his ribs and fractured his sckull in three places. And he had defense wounds on his arms where he tried to ward off blows.

They threw a log on his chest and the 290 pound one jumped up and down on it.

They blamed one another and refused to tell the truth, right up to the end. Not one apologized to the family, the closest being one having his lawyer read a statement.

No remorse. No pity. No empathy for the man they killed or his family.

I'm not sure I've ever seen anything so inhuman. Ive read about it, in the eath camps, in Japanese POW camps, in Cambodia. It's absolutely devesating to realize one human being can do this to another, even with all the lessons fromt he past that they can.

The judge had it absolutely right when he said, my job here is to make sense our of the senseless.

 

[Boxlicker101]

You are so right darling Colly, they don't deserve to be allowed to breath the same air as we... However I've been thinking on this, killing is too good and quick for this kind of animal, they need to see the error of their ways and be punished for their crime in a manner that they will suffer real pain and anguish... I believe in the death penalty for gun toting criminals and murderers, but this is a different breed of creature, and other would-be creatures of the same ilk need an example to deter them.

Prison is too soft these days, bloody television, excersise yards, phone calls, three good meals a day (three more than the real victim here) access to libraries and computers, nookie visits from the wife or G/F... What the fuck is all that about... The homelesss guys would trade their cardboard box for that any day if they weren't too proud to become criminals themselves.

Prison for major crimes of violence, ie: Wanton killing, Rape, child molestation, thuggery and antisocial behaviour should be dragged back to days of yore... 8ft x 4ft stone cell, stone slab to sleep on, bucket for the toilet, and no bloody luxuries at all... Bread and water and locked up all day unless attached to a forced labour gang.... and life should mean life for murder, until the piece of shite dies in the cell... That kind of treatment will prevent a lot of re-offending I'm pretty convinced of it.

And yes, the victims of crime are too often ignored in the great rush to defend the offenders... How often do we hear such crap... Oh poor love, of course he was bound to kill old people, his mummy tore his teddy bear up when he was young, it's not his fault, the old person shouldn't have been there anyway.

I disagree with many of the things that Amicus says when he rails against liberals but here I would agree with him. Prison used to be a dreadful place to be because of the privation involved until liberals got them changed into the relative country clubs they are now. "Rehabilitation" became the word and, I must admit, that has happened once in a great while. For slime like these guys, though, there should be a dungeon somewhere where the key is never used until they open the door to haul their rotting corpses away.

 

[R. Richard]

No system produced these guys RR. And shifting blame from the perpatrators to some monolitic failing system isn't fair either.

The School system may have let them down, but it's just as likely they didn't give it a chance.

Their famlial system may have let them down, but since the defense didn't claim they were abused, I suspect that isn't the case either.

Their community system may have let them down, but it sounds to me like they opted out of that too.

There are a lot of systems that produce an individual, and sometimes a failing in one of them, is compensated for by the strength in another. Smetimes not. But saying "the system" let them down, is shunting blame from the perpatrators of the act to people who had no part in it and are probably as apalled by it as most of us are.

These are the exact kind of scumbags who keep me a firm proponent of capital punishment. Thrill killers. Life support systems for a shit factory. Oxygen thieves. Pond Scum. Call em what ever you think fits.

But don't call them victims. The victim was an elderly man. He was already having a hard time, and at his age nobody should be homeless. And he begged for his life. And they lkilled him anyway. The fact they are still drawing breath is an affront to my sense of right and wrong.

Colly:
You misunderstand me. I do not feel that thrill killers are victims. The dead man was a victim. However, I think that the dead man was a victim of both the thrill killers and the system.

The thrill killers are obviously complete and total failures of the system that educated them. The question is, why did the system not detect said total failures and/or why did the system not deal with said total failures once they were detected? The only realistic answer is that the system is too badly broken to be of use. The system should be completely torn down and a workable system installed.

I have been dealing with the likes of the thrill killers since I was 12-years-old. Given a completely free hand, I know how to deal with thrill killers. Once I have finished dealing with such as thrill killers, I will accept full and total responsibility for any active harm they cause from that time on. Such as thrill killers are less than nothing to me save only that they can serve as an example of what will happen to future thrill killers.

 

[cloudy]

Prison used to be a dreadful place to be because of the privation involved until liberals got them changed into the relative country clubs they are now.

EXCUSE ME????

When was the last damn time you were at a prison, box? Had to have been recently, since you know all there is to know, right?

I have a brother in prison, and I've seen what it's like. It's not a country club, despite what you'd like to think. I've been in jail, myself, however briefly. I suppose that getting sprayed with fucking flea dip, and then thrown under a cold shower, and having your underwear taken away from you is common practice at the damn country club you belong to, is it?

I've had it. Your self-righteous smugness is beyond fucking belief.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Colly:
You misunderstand me. I do not feel that thrill killers are victims. The dead man was a victim. However, I think that the dead man was a victim of both the thrill killers and the system.

The thrill killers are obviously complete and total failures of the system that educated them. The question is, why did the system not detect said total failures and/or why did the system not deal with said total failures once they were detected? The only realistic answer is that the system is too badly broken to be of use. The system should be completely torn down and a workable system installed.

I have been dealing with the likes of the thrill killers since I was 12-years-old. Given a completely free hand, I know how to deal with thrill killers. Once I have finished dealing with such as thrill killers, I will accept full and total responsibility for any active harm they cause from that time on. Such as thrill killers are less than nothing to me save only that they can serve as an example of what will happen to future thrill killers.

No idea how you could create or install a system that would detect or prevent this one rr. The perpatrators, while having had some brushes with the law in some cases, had nothing more than a bicycle infraction in another. Two had left the school system before graduating and one was employed. AS a group or individually, they had not exhibited the kind of behavior for which you would have seen red flags.

Something failed, somehwere, but I think that failure was one in the heads. A failure to develop a sense of right and wrong. A failure to develope the ability to empathize with your fellows to even a small degree. I don't know that there is even a good test for that kind of mental failure, much less how you would use it, if it existed, to prevent something this horrible.

 

[Boxlicker101]

EXCUSE ME????

When was the last damn time you were at a prison, box? Had to have been recently, since you know all there is to know, right?

I have a brother in prison, and I've seen what it's like. It's not a country club, despite what you'd like to think. I've been in jail, myself, however briefly. I suppose that getting sprayed with fucking flea dip, and then thrown under a cold shower, and having your underwear taken away from you is common practice at the damn country club you belong to, is it?

I've had it. Your self-righteous smugness is beyond fucking belief.

Hi, Cloudy. It has been quite a while since I have been in prison and then it was a county jail, not a state prison. My many stays there did start with flea spray, and a cold shower but I did get to keep my underwear.

"Country club" is hyperbole and I compared prisons now to what they were like 100 years or so ago. Back then they were for punishment and most people stayed in their cells almost all the time. There was almost no recreation or anything else to relieve the tedium and the prisoners had plenty of time to regret what they had done.

Even now prison is no fun, nor should it be. However, compared to what it used to be, it is closer to being a country club. I was strictly making a comparison to prison now, as described in the post by Pop that I quoted.

 

[R. Richard]

No idea how you could create or install a system that would detect or prevent this one rr. The perpatrators, while having had some brushes with the law in some cases, had nothing more than a bicycle infraction in another. Two had left the school system before graduating and one was employed. AS a group or individually, they had not exhibited the kind of behavior for which you would have seen red flags.

Something failed, somehwere, but I think that failure was one in the heads. A failure to develop a sense of right and wrong. A failure to develope the ability to empathize with your fellows to even a small degree. I don't know that there is even a good test for that kind of mental failure, much less how you would use it, if it existed, to prevent something this horrible.

Colly:
Let me tell you why I blame the system. I will admit, right off the top, that I do not have any evidence.

When I was going to school, we had a teacher who was so incompetent that even the kids were complaining. The school did nothing. One day, incompetent boy came to school drunk and fondled the tits of one of the girl students. The girl ran home and told her mother. The girl's mother came to school with all guns firing. She was about to attack the administrators.

The school quickly split into two factions over the incident. The young radicals wanted incompetent boy to have a fair trial in front of an elected Judge, with incompetent boy represented by a lawyer. The school administration and the city fathers wanted vigilante action; incompetent boy would resign and they would smuggle him out of town. As you might guess, the vigilantes won. However, the stink was so bad that it slowly came out that the fondling was not the first, nor the second, . . . The young radicals asked the question, "What about the responsibility for our elected and hired officials to protect other young girls against groping boy?" We are still waiting for an answer.

I strongly suspect that, if someone really dug into the history of the thrill killers, they would find vigilante action.

JMNTHO.

 

[pop_54]

After reading the details pops, I'm not even sure the Traditional British death for Traitors is bad enough.

What you mean this one as described in the blurb on "Hung, drawn, & quartered"


"Then Sentence was passed, as followeth, viz. That they should return to the place from whence they came, from thence be drawn to the Common place of Execution upon Hurdles, and there to be Hanged by the Necks, then cut down alive, their Privy-Members cut off, and Bowels taken out to be burnt before their Faces, their Heads to be severed from their Bodies, and their Bodies divided into four parts, to be disposed of as the King should think fit."

Sounds about right as a punishment for thrill killers to me.

 

[pop_54]

Colly:
Let me tell you why I blame the system. I will admit, right off the top, that I do not have any evidence.

When I was going to school, we had a teacher who was so incompetent that even the kids were complaining.

I strongly suspect that, if someone really dug into the history of the thrill killers, they would find vigilante action.

JMNTHO.

When I was at school we had a Head Teacher who kept a stock of bamboo canes in his cupboard... These canes were used to dispense justice on wayward students who'd commited deliberate acts of rebellion against the school or acts of agression against fellow students, ie: Vandalism, serious breach of school rules, and or Bullying... The offending student was made to bend and touch his/her toes and then received 6 of the best across the ass cheeks from the bamboo cane... It bloody hurt believe me on that score, and it only happened to me once cos I didn't misbehave badly enough again to warrant such punishment thank you very much.

I'm not suggesting such a thing as a cure all remedy in all schools, but I seriously believe my generation has grown up a lot better behaved than the ill disciplined morons they're turning out of schools these days.

 

[R. Richard]

When I was at school we had a Head Teacher who kept a stock of bamboo canes in his cupboard... These canes were used to dispense justice on wayward students who'd commited deliberate acts of rebellion against the school or acts of agression against fellow students, ie: Vandalism, serious breach of school rules, and or Bullying... The offending student was made to bend and touch his/her toes and then received 6 of the best across the ass cheeks from the bamboo cane... It bloody hurt believe me on that score, and it only happened to me once cos I didn't misbehave badly enough again to warrant such punishment thank you very much.

I'm not suggesting such a thing as a cure all remedy in all schools, but I seriously believe my generation has grown up a lot better behaved than the ill disciplined morons they're turning out of schools these days.

Nowadays, they don't cane unruly students on the ass, they kiss them on the ass and then they wonder why the schools are out of control.

 

[cloudy]

Nowadays, they don't cane unruly students on the ass, they kiss them on the ass and then they wonder why the schools are out of control.

Not here, they don't. Paddlings are still an everyday occurance here.

 

[zeb1094]

What I ment was, if they were to disappear no one would miss them because they have no redeeming value to society at all. I didn't mean I was going to wipe them out or that they necessarily should be wiped out.

CD, I agree with you, sorry I didn't make that clear.

If Cd won't, I would. Happy to throw the switch, push the plunger, pull the trigger, open the trap door. Whatever floats your boat. If given my druthers, I'll light the fier at the bottom of the stake on them and once they're through screaming, I'll only regret they were gone bceasue I couldn't kill em again.

Calling them animals is an affront to animals. They don't usually kill for no reason. They usually kill for food or to defend themselves or their cubs. That's not universal of curse, some do kill apparently for no reason, but they are, the minority.


As to humans who kill for kicks or for n o reason at all...welll, if the job of executioner opens up, I promise it won't go unfilled.

Colly, I agree with you, I too would be there.

I was just playing the devils advocate here.

 

[entitled]

Nowadays, they don't cane unruly students on the ass, they kiss them on the ass and then they wonder why the schools are out of control.

Not in all places. My oldest has been sent to the principal's office for a spanking more than once. However, before they do as much, they have to have parental permission. A signed paper at the beginning of the school year and a phone call is all it takes.

 

[R. Richard]

I am guessing that the places where they still spank small children are in the South. I lived there and they still have some vestiges of discipline there. In most places the spanking of an unruly small child triggers a lawsuit.

I sys "small child." Attempts to spank a larger male child frequently fall under the inciting to riot thing.

 

[entitled]

I am guessing that the places where they still spank small children are in the South. I lived there and they still have some vestiges of discipline there. In most places the spanking of an unruly small child triggers a lawsuit.

I sys "small child." Attempts to spank a larger male child frequently fall under the inciting to riot thing.

It was the same policy in the schools in Colorado i went to. As long as there is parental persmission, spanking is allowed.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

What you mean this one as described in the blurb on "Hung, drawn, & quartered"


"Then Sentence was passed, as followeth, viz. That they should return to the place from whence they came, from thence be drawn to the Common place of Execution upon Hurdles, and there to be Hanged by the Necks, then cut down alive, their Privy-Members cut off, and Bowels taken out to be burnt before their Faces, their Heads to be severed from their Bodies, and their Bodies divided into four parts, to be disposed of as the King should think fit."

Sounds about right as a punishment for thrill killers to me.

That's the one.

 

[cloudy]

I am guessing that the places where they still spank small children are in the South. I lived there and they still have some vestiges of discipline there. In most places the spanking of an unruly small child triggers a lawsuit.

I sys "small child." Attempts to spank a larger male child frequently fall under the inciting to riot thing.

I frequently tell my children I'll "tan their hide" and "bust their behinds" - southern raising didn't hurt me any, and I often get comments on how polite my children are. Something's working.

 

[entitled]

I frequently tell my children I'll "tan their hide" and "bust their behinds" - southern raising didn't hurt me any, and I often get comments on how polite my children are. Something's working.

i threaten to make mine go cut their own switch. In the blackberries.

 

[zeb1094]

And to think, some states, mine in particular, have outlawed corporal(sp?) punishment. If you spank you go to jail. What a load of bullshit.

I got spanked, I have never thought about going out to beat someone for no reason but my own pleasure. If more children had been spanked when younger, I doubt we would have had this problem.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

And to think, some states, mine in particular, have outlawed corporal(sp?) punishment. If you spank you go to jail. What a load of bullshit.

I got spanked, I have never thought about going out to beat someone for no reason but my own pleasure. If more children had been spanked when younger, I doubt we would have had this problem.

I think that's going too far. there are a lot of things that go into raising a child. Corporal punishment could be encouraged, but if the father is absentee it's unlikely the mothers of these kids could have delivered it on their own, they were all big boys with bad attitudes. Further, their actions show a lack of remorse, one that sits on the edge of a type A sociopathth. There is a distinct lack of connection of action to consequence.

In this case, I think it was aided and abetted by their lawyers. They asked to have the teens judged as juveiles, even though 2 were already 18. They plead guilty to Murder 2, in the expectation their clients would get lieninet sentences, one article even mentioned probation as a possible sentence. Those boys aren't tyep A's, because they knew th jig was up when police started asking questions and they all lied like big dawgs, pushing the majority of the blame off on each other. that's a fair indication they knew they had done wrong.

I do believe in corporal punishment. I know it works. I know the permissive attitude in households wehre it wasn't employed produced some very bad kids. Not criminals neccissarily, but rude, and insolent and a lot of them bullies. While I do believe in it, I don't think the lack of it made this crime possible.

This was herd mentality. Or mob psycology at work. One hit him, probably the 15 year old, and the others just went along. It's a lack of character, to stand up and a lack of empathy, to join in hurting someone weaker because it's the path of least resistance. It's a lack of humanity, and while I suppose you could intentionally raise a child to be that way, the odds strongly favor them coming by it over time without the parents even realizing they were raising potential monsters.

 

[zeb1094]

I think that's going too far. there are a lot of things that go into raising a child. Corporal punishment could be encouraged, but if the father is absentee it's unlikely the mothers of these kids could have delivered it on their own, they were all big boys with bad attitudes. Further, their actions show a lack of remorse, one that sits on the edge of a type A sociopathth. There is a distinct lack of connection of action to consequence.

In this case, I think it was aided and abetted by their lawyers. They asked to have the teens judged as juveiles, even though 2 were already 18. They plead guilty to Murder 2, in the expectation their clients would get lieninet sentences, one article even mentioned probation as a possible sentence. Those boys aren't tyep A's, because they knew th jig was up when police started asking questions and they all lied like big dawgs, pushing the majority of the blame off on each other. that's a fair indication they knew they had done wrong.

I do believe in corporal punishment. I know it works. I know the permissive attitude in households wehre it wasn't employed produced some very bad kids. Not criminals neccissarily, but rude, and insolent and a lot of them bullies. While I do believe in it, I don't think the lack of it made this crime possible.

This was herd mentality. Or mob psycology at work. One hit him, probably the 15 year old, and the others just went along. It's a lack of character, to stand up and a lack of empathy, to join in hurting someone weaker because it's the path of least resistance. It's a lack of humanity, and while I suppose you could intentionally raise a child to be that way, the odds strongly favor them coming by it over time without the parents even realizing they were raising potential monsters.

When I was growing up on the southwest side of Chicago, the guys on the block would hand out together, play baseball together, go up to the corner store together. And because of the environment, parents that cared how we behaved, ours and others, we behaved.

If a parent saw me doing something that I should be doing my parents got a call and when I got home punishment was swift. They believed the parent that called, as most parents in the neighborhood knew each other.

My first experience of this as a parent didn't bode well. Another child in the apartment complex we lived in at the time was bullying my son and calling my daughter names. When we went to tell his parent(s) about it they called us liars. Didn't even talk to their kid, just told us that their little precious Johnny couldn't have done that.

I would bet that little Johnny is now in jail or has been in jail or is going to jail. As a parent I found it unresonable that they wouldn't believe my wife and I. What reason would we have to lie about what their child did right in front of us?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

When I was growing up on the southwest side of Chicago, the guys on the block would hand out together, play baseball together, go up to the corner store together. And because of the environment, parents that cared how we behaved, ours and others, we behaved.

If a parent saw me doing something that I should be doing my parents got a call and when I got home punishment was swift. They believed the parent that called, as most parents in the neighborhood knew each other.

My first experience of this as a parent didn't bode well. Another child in the apartment complex we lived in at the time was bullying my son and calling my daughter names. When we went to tell his parent(s) about it they called us liars. Didn't even talk to their kid, just told us that their little precious Johnny couldn't have done that.

I would bet that little Johnny is now in jail or has been in jail or is going to jail. As a parent I found it unresonable that they wouldn't believe my wife and I. What reason would we have to lie about what their child did right in front of us?

there are parents that rasie their kids to be rotten. either spoiled or above the law. That's a failing on the paren't part. But it seems that even if corporal punishment were an option, if the parents refuse to belive little johnny could do anything to deserve it, he will never get it.