Self Publishing

[sr71plt]

I have. Perhaps if you stopped trying to oversell.

 

[THROBBS]

I have. Perhaps if you stopped trying to oversell.

I do not believe that I am "over selling".

In my position, I must sell.
Though, frankly, it makes no difference to me if you are convinced.

Self publishing can work. Not "hyping" that.

 

[THROBBS]

So anyway!

To those who are considering self-publishing... I am not saying that it is a panacea.
For the right material and the right author/illustrator it can be a viable solution... depending, of course, what your goals are.

In this world heaps of landfill is produced. One might be very proud and satisfied with producing something marginal (or even "good") that sells a LOT. I have done that... I designed some toys that have sold millions of pieces (they are "good" toys). BUT, I am much much more satisfied with some projects which have been actually FREE, because those have been enjoyed by thousands in such a way that they have been positively influenced and even inspired. This in turn has been fuel for my books.

 

[Boota]

Well, Grisham's money would definitely help getting started. Maybe he didn't self-publish in the traditional meaning of the word, but he did take the bull by the horns and make something happen. Again, much easier to do with money. A publisher backing an author can move right past the obstacles of a self-published author. They have a distribution network in place and thousands of contacts and a track record in the business. Being self-published, the immediate assumption is that the book must really suck or someone would have published it for you. And true enough, that is often the case. On the other hand, there are a lot of books like mine that are quality work, just outside the mainstream. It is tricky to weed them out if you are the person in charge of stocking a bookstore. There isn't time to read each and every book that comes in hoping to be on the shelves. So marketing, or in some cases bullshitting, needs to take place. They have to be wowwed by the marketing enough to pick up the book, and that's not always easy. My title has often helped me get in the door, as well as the predominantly black cover. It would nice if some known publisher would cram my books down their throats, but no luck as of yet.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

There are plenty of awful books that get published. We have a remainder sale here once a year, and the building is filled with books. Plus I check out maybe 6 books from the library every week, and 4 of them are duds.

So I tend to think editors and publishers dont know beans about what they buy. I'm not alone in this opinion. A best-selling female author said that New York publishing is controlled by 20-something girls, and what we get is what they like. The rest is hype on Oprah and the morning news shows.

If a publisher fucks up too often, Random House or Simon & Shuster buys them to use as an impress for Gay fiction, like they did to Scribner's.

 

[THROBBS]

I think Boota has it there.

Certainly a Publishing house will make "some" effort if they signed your book. But if you do it yourself and have assumed all the risk and are passionate (better be) then you will advocate and sell your book better than anyone.

Unless... all you can do is write... then I guess your only recourse is to keep knocking on doors. I suppose that if writing is your only skill, then you should be quite good at it and your letter of inquiry will SHINE beyond any as will your manuscript and you will rise to the top of the slush piles and be published in no time.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I think Boota has it there.

Certainly a Publishing house will make "some" effort if they signed your book. But if you do it yourself and have assumed all the risk and are passionate (better be) then you will advocate and sell your book better than anyone.

Unless... all you can do is write... then I guess your only recourse is to keep knocking on doors. I suppose that if writing is your only skill, then you should be quite good at it and your letter of inquiry will SHINE beyond any as will your manuscript and you will rise to the top of the slush piles and be published in no time.

I wonder if Stephen King hyped his stuff that much at the beginning? I've heard him speak, and he's "okay" at that... personable, but not really charismatic. I think he may be a guy who can "Just write" for the most part.

And yet... he sells like crazy. *shrug*

 

[THROBBS]

I wonder if Stephen King hyped his stuff that much at the beginning? I've heard him speak, and he's "okay" at that... personable, but not really charismatic. I think he may be a guy who can "Just write" for the most part.

And yet... he sells like crazy. *shrug*

Sure. And things have changed since Mr. King first started. *shrug*

I am not saying that conventional Publishing Houses do NOT work. I do say, that there is another game in town, and it DOES work. (admittedly not for everyone)

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Sure. And things have changed since Mr. King first started. *shrug*

I am not saying that conventional Publishing Houses do NOT work. I do say, that there is another game in town, and it DOES work. (admittedly not for everyone)

Oh, there are LOTS of games in town now. Epublishing is growing leaps and bounds. Indie publishers are popping up everywhere. And self publishing is becoming so much easier than it ever was, and the stigma is fading, too.

Back then, SK sent an unsolicited mss in to a publisher and it was picked out of slush pile! Know how often that happens today? Um... lemme think... like, practically never! Now you have to have an agent, at the very least...

 

[THROBBS]

Oh, there are LOTS of games in town now. Epublishing is growing leaps and bounds. Indie publishers are popping up everywhere. And self publishing is becoming so much easier than it ever was, and the stigma is fading, too.

Back then, SK sent an unsolicited mss in to a publisher and it was picked out of slush pile! Know how often that happens today? Um... lemme think... like, practically never! Now you have to have an agent, at the very least...

True enough! (re: agent..and the rest)...and THAT costs too. AND you have to find one that you work well with. Frankly, I don't have the patience for that nonsense.

 

[sr71plt]

Back then, SK sent an unsolicited mss in to a publisher and it was picked out of slush pile! Know how often that happens today? Um... lemme think... like, practically never! Now you have to have an agent, at the very least...

Oh, which of his books went that way? Not the first one published. He wrote three pages of Carrie and threw it in the trash can, and his wife (who fortuitously worked in publishing) pulled it out the trashcan and urged him to finish the manuscript--and then sent it (through her connections, sans agent) to Doubleday, which offered him a contract and then resold the contract to New American Library for $400,000. Not exactly your standard slush pile submission, but, yes, the variant made into another one of those urban myths struggling writers feel comforted by. And, oh yes, he was teaching English at the time, so not exactly one of the great unwashed as far as writing ability/training.

 

[THROBBS]

I'm "unwashed".

 

[sr71plt]

I'm "unwashed".

Only if you spend more time looking for the supposed shortcuts than in properly preparing yourself.

 

[THROBBS]

Only if you spend more time looking for the supposed shortcuts than in properly preparing yourself.

In that case I am clean!

I am well prepared and cuttin' out the fat!
Not taking a "supposed" short cut, I am blazing a fricking trail of my own, thank you!

 

[sr71plt]

In that case I am clean!

I am well prepared and cuttin' out the fat!
Not taking a "supposed" short cut, I am blazing a fricking trail of my own, thank you!

That's great. It's the trailblazers who find the most gold.

 

[THROBBS]

That's great. It's the trailblazers who find the most gold.

Thanks.

Luckily the "gold" is not my primary motivation... again, I am not delusional (on that score).

Now aside from all that crap, I WOULD like to hear from people who have published (in any form) how many books they have sold (of each title), and over what period of time.

I'll go first:

In a very limited market distribution (rightly so) I have sold about 1,600 books in 2 years. Not a NY Times best seller by a long stretch.


I believe that I can sell to a wider market with this title, but it will be more difficult. So, I have to study the risks involved in a reprint. I will likely, update with a "new and improved" version.

Subsequent titles, in the works, will have a broader audience. However, at least one will be full color... now there is an interesting "hurdle". I will likely have it printed overseas.

 

[WRJames]

If you self publish, find yourself a decent editor.

 

[Boota]

Not that I was there or anything, but according to an interview I just read with Stephen King his wife wasn't working in publishing at the time he got his first book picked up. They were both struggling writers with day jobs. He taught English and she was working at Dunkin' Donuts. Maybe she knew someone from trying to get her own writing published, but that is hardly the same thing as working in publishing.

 

[sr71plt]

Ah, the Hollywood-style myths people cling to. It's almost a religion. I guess if you need a crutch . . .

 

[THROBBS]

So what!!!!???

How about we talk about "US"?
LITsters... realistic possibilities.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Oh, which of his books went that way? Not the first one published. He wrote three pages of Carrie and threw it in the trash can, and his wife (who fortuitously worked in publishing) pulled it out the trashcan and urged him to finish the manuscript--and then sent it (through her connections, sans agent) to Doubleday, which offered him a contract and then resold the contract to New American Library for $400,000. Not exactly your standard slush pile submission, but, yes, the variant made into another one of those urban myths struggling writers feel comforted by. And, oh yes, he was teaching English at the time, so not exactly one of the great unwashed as far as writing ability/training.

Hm. Hard to know which story is "true." I've heard the whole mss was fished out of the trash by Tabby. I've heard King himself say she encouraged him to send it off to a publisher and he picked the one he did simply because he liked the logo. Of course, the man himself could be making up his own urban myths at this point. hell, he IS his own urban myth for pete's sake.

He wasn't one of the great unwashed, no... but teaching college writing courses at the University of Maine isn't exactly Harvard, either. Although I didn't know Tabby had connections. That makes more sense to me, actually, than the slush pile story.

 

[sr71plt]

King's retrospective fictionalizing of his life's story could win a Pulitzer if he had a way of erasing the stories he told before. Mine is the Doubleday version (which got the Carrie manuscript--and it didn't come in over any transom).

The point here is that few (like in minisule few) got started into something real by either taking short cuts or not objectively researching where they really were in all of the razzmatazz hype.

 

[Boota]

I'm not clinging to myths. I could actually give a fuck less how it happened. I don't read Grisham and MY writing is far more important to ME than Stephen King's anyway. Other authors supposed success or failure had absolutely zero to do with my decision to self-publish. In fact, I hadn't even heard of these examples until well after my book was out.

I self-published because the large market I have tapped into is being neglected by the mainstream publishing world. There is not one publisher I talked to, or agent for that matter, who was willing to give Mr. Undesirable a shot. However, I believed in the work enough to put my money where my mouth is and I did it myself. Now, I sell books all over the world and I do it without even actively promoting it at the moment. I did a big push when it first came out, did fairly well, and backed off. With the Drake and Zeke radio interview I did back in December the book took off with a new life.

I'm not saying I would refuse a mainstream publisher. Not at all. I'd love to have access to the things they can bring to the table. I really had no choice if I wanted Mr. U to see the light of day. I realize that my results aren't typical, but I did work hard at it. The key thing, though, is that I wrote a book that people enjoy. No amount of promotion is going to keep a book selling if it doesn't have an audience, publisher backed or not.

I will likely be publishing my next book myself because I won't change the title and I can't imagine a publishing house anywhere having the balls to release a book under the name I'm going with. I expect better success with the new one, however. I get a couple hundred letters and emails every month asking when it will be out. My first book earned a built in audience for the next one. Still, if there is a publisher that can do something for me Picking On Retards is available for negotiation.

 

[phillyinjun]

So, anyone who has stories (heheh) to share about self publishing successes in the last year or so?

 

[THROBBS]

Same story (sorry), but as a follow-up, my self-published book has sold out all 2,000 copies of original print run (save for a handful of promos and copies held back for myself).

Not erotica by any stretch and skewed toward being illustrative rather than narrative.

Shrug. I consider it a success:
Won awards.
Best Seller lists.
Not stuck with inventory.
Made back investment plus profit.
Positive feedback from customers.

I am curious about quantities that other people have printed (and sold), both "conventional" press runs and "on-demand".