Self- Identification

[Ramone45]

Self identification is bullshit and it's dangerous. It is becoming more and more common. It's insidious and it threatens all of us. Example. A ladies' daughter is hosting a foreign exchange student. She told me,"I consider him my grandson." Bull shit. He's not your grandson and that's disrespectful to his grandmother. You are what you are and that's it. "Transracial" is a LIE>

 

[Queersetti]

You're not really a Ramone. The Ramones are all dead.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Self identification is bullshit and it's dangerous. It is becoming more and more common. It's insidious and it threatens all of us. Example. A ladies' daughter is hosting a foreign exchange student. She told me,"I consider him my grandson." Bull shit. He's not your grandson and that's disrespectful to his grandmother. You are what you are and that's it. "Transracial" is a LIE>

There's a difference between "I consider him my grandson", which references the feelings of the considerer, and "He is my grandson" which is a statement of biological fact and can only be either true or false. Apply this distinction to your pseudo problem of "self identification" and your blood pressure will return to normal levels.

 

[Littlefinger]

Self identification is bullshit and it's dangerous. It is becoming more and more common. It's insidious and it threatens all of us. Example. A ladies' daughter is hosting a foreign exchange student. She told me,"I consider him my grandson." Bull shit. He's not your grandson and that's disrespectful to his grandmother. You are what you are and that's it. "Transracial" is a LIE>

Agreed. Not only does it devalue the real struggle of transgenders(which usually have a biological basis for their dysphoria and still cling to the gender binary; they either have a male/female brain or their hormones or genes indicate a feeling of being the opposite gender) but it's also extremely racist. In high school during the height of the anime craze, there were kids who would spout off Japanese, dress in clothes marked with Japanese lettering, eat pocky, and act in exagerated cutesy manner to replicate the absurdity and behaviors of a lot of anime characters. We called them "weeaboos" a condescending term used to refer to someone who cherry picks what they culturally think is Japanese culture and acting like they are.

And I agree it's getting worse. Ever hear of otherkin? People self identifying as creatures, aliens, or even fictional characters. Like "no really this is who I am". Or how about the major amount of self diagnosis going around where people think they can look up autism, bipolar, or PTSD and say "yeah I totally have that." Or those who make up their own genders. Sorry but no, even when taking into account extra chromosomes, as human beings we very firmly fit into one or the other gender.

The problem becomes expecting other people to cater to the delusion when that and the narrative they're pushing is very harmful to society as a whole. Will address this more when I get home from work.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Agreed. Not only does it devalue the real struggle of transgenders(which usually have a biological basis for their dysphoria and still cling to the gender binary; they either have a male/female brain or their hormones or genes indicate a feeling of being the opposite gender) but it's also extremely racist. In high school during the height of the anime craze, there were kids who would spout off Japanese, dress in clothes marked with Japanese lettering, eat pocky, and act in exagerated cutesy manner to replicate the absurdity and behaviors of a lot of anime characters. We called them "weeaboos" a condescending term used to refer to someone who cherry picks what they culturally think is Japanese culture and acting like they are.

And I agree it's getting worse. Ever hear of otherkin? People self identifying as creatures, aliens, or even fictional characters. Like "no really this is who I am". Or how about the major amount of self diagnosis going around where people think they can look up autism, bipolar, or PTSD and say "yeah I totally have that." Or those who make up their own genders. Sorry but no, even when taking into account extra chromosomes, as human beings we very firmly fit into one or the other gender.

The problem becomes expecting other people to cater to the delusion when that and the narrative they're pushing is very harmful to society as a whole. Will address this more when I get home from work.

This is an actual question... why is their struggle any less legit than the struggle of a transgendered person? By this board's definition of bigot, that's bigot thinking.

If you can argue gender is worthy of transposition, why not race?

 

[pointless]

huh. some dumbass agreed with ramone. dude will probably be spanking it to this thread for a solid week.

 

[Littlefinger]

This is an actual question... why is their struggle any less legit than the struggle of a transgendered person? By this board's definition of bigot, that's bigot thinking.

If you can argue gender is worthy of transposition, why not race?

Because there's actual science to back up transgenderism. It's not a choice but an actual feeling of disconnect inside that can be tested for.

How about I ask you a question: what does it mean, if you were white and born to two white parents, to say "I feel like I'm actually black"? What does "feeling" black or Japanese mean? Go ahead and make the mental connection implied by that. Then again if I remember correctly you don't actually believe transgenderism is a thing, so they all probably seem equally invalid.

 

[Liar]

I self-identify as awesome.

 

[Noor]

I think the grandson thing is fine. Adoptees considered their adopted parents their parents.

As far as what is now being called transracial, I am totally opposed to worrying about it because frankly, I don't care what race people are and the world would be a better place if everyone else also didn't care.

There have been people who have identified themselves as a different race for a long time for survival, to get ahead and whatever, except for medical reasons with certain diseases and conditions that are tied to certain races, it's not that big of a deal.

There are so many people of mixed race anyway, very few who identify as black in the US or American Indian are 100%. On forms, I identify myself as "human" if I am required to put anything at all.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

Of course race is important. It's a part of who a person is. Same as sex. Why be in such a hurry to dismiss it? If someone doesn't like you because of your race, fuck 'em.

 

[Ramone45]

I think the grandson thing is fine. Adoptees considered their adopted parents their parents.

As far as what is now being called transracial, I am totally opposed to worrying about it because frankly, I don't care what race people are and the world would be a better place if everyone else also didn't care.

There have been people who have identified themselves as a different race for a long time for survival, to get ahead and whatever, except for medical reasons with certain diseases and conditions that are tied to certain races, it's not that big of a deal.

There are so many people of mixed race anyway, very few who identify as black in the US or American Indian are 100%. On forms, I identify myself as "human" if I am required to put anything at all.

My son moved away and established a new circle of friends where he now lives. When I first met the father of one of his new friends, he said,"I'm like his father down here." Bull shit. You are nothing like his father and I would not let him intrude upon the most important relationship in my life. I was highly offended irrespective of this gentleman's intention. Words matter. I'm his father in every respect of the word. He did not have the right to self-identify as my son's father. Just like that lady did not have the right to use the word, "grandson", to characterize her relationship with that exchange student.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Because there's actual science to back up transgenderism. It's not a choice but an actual feeling of disconnect inside that can be tested for.

How about I ask you a question: what does it mean, if you were white and born to two white parents, to say "I feel like I'm actually black"? What does "feeling" black or Japanese mean? Go ahead and make the mental connection implied by that. Then again if I remember correctly you don't actually believe transgenderism is a thing, so they all probably seem equally invalid.

I don't believe that a person can change sex. That does not mean that I think the feelings aren't real. That people don't feel right in their skin. I think it is absolutely absurd to say that people don't "feel" one way or another.

It's quite easy for someone to say "I feel black". Imagine being a white person raised in black culture. Or a white person raised in Japanese culture. How would it be so hard to make that stretch? Different races have different cultures and to say that's not true is either absurdly politically correct or, at best, absurdly naive.

How is the disconnect scientifically "tested"?

I am not saying that the feelings for either are invalid. I am saying you can't change from white to black or from male to female. You can identify as a certain way if you want, but you have not actually changed race or sex. This is science.

 

[Ramone45]

I don't believe that a person can change sex. That does not mean that I think the feelings aren't real. That people don't feel right in their skin. I think it is absolutely absurd to say that people don't "feel" one way or another.

It's quite easy for someone to say "I feel black". Imagine being a white person raised in black culture. Or a white person raised in Japanese culture. How would it be so hard to make that stretch? Different races have different cultures and to say that's not true is either absurdly politically correct or, at best, absurdly naive.

How is the disconnect scientifically "tested"?

I am not saying that the feelings for either are invalid. I am saying you can't change from white to black or from male to female. You can identify as a certain way if you want, but you have not actually changed race or sex. This is science.

I'm also curious about this "test". If there's a test, what does it measure? What are the units and what is the range of normal? Can you screen a population for it?

 

[Noor]

My son moved away and established a new circle of friends where he now lives. When I first met the father of one of his new friends, he said,"I'm like his father down here." Bull shit. You are nothing like his father and I would not let him intrude upon the most important relationship in my life. I was highly offended irrespective of this gentleman's intention. Words matter. I'm his father in every respect of the word. He did not have the right to self-identify as my son's father. Just like that lady did not have the right to use the word, "grandson", to characterize her relationship with that exchange student.

I suspect you are more concern that this man will replace you in your son's eyes which I highly doubt is true. Unfortunately, it is not you who gets to decide whom your son has relationships with or not, or what they are. It is not about you.

For myself, I would be happy that someone cares that much about him while he was away from home. It can never hurt to have more people who care about someone you love.

 

[Lord Pmann]

I'm also curious about this "test". If there's a test, what does it measure? What are the units and what is the range of normal? Can you screen a population for it?

Yeah. I don't claim to be an expert in this at all. I am certainly not. But I don't know how a subjective "feeling inside" can be tested.

 

[Ramone45]

huh. some dumbass agreed with ramone. dude will probably be spanking it to this thread for a solid week.

No, when the folks here disagree with me, it tells me that I'm on to something LOL

 

[Noor]

No, when the folks here disagree with me, it tells me that I'm on to something LOL

Most people would disagree with you if you said the moon is made of cotton candy, but that doesn't mean it is.

 

[eyer]

Of course race is important. It's a part of who a person is. Same as sex. Why be in such a hurry to dismiss it? If someone doesn't like you because of your race, fuck 'em.

OTOH, if someone thinks they're anything special because of their race...

...ditto.

 

[Ramone45]

Most people would disagree with you if you said the moon is made of cotton candy, but that doesn't mean it is.

True, but that's a silly example.

 

[Littlefinger]

I don't believe that a person can change sex. That does not mean that I think the feelings aren't real. That people don't feel right in their skin. I think it is absolutely absurd to say that people don't "feel" one way or another.

It's quite easy for someone to say "I feel black". Imagine being a white person raised in black culture. Or a white person raised in Japanese culture. How would it be so hard to make that stretch? Different races have different cultures and to say that's not true is either absurdly politically correct or, at best, absurdly naive.

How is the disconnect scientifically "tested"?

I am not saying that the feelings for either are invalid. I am saying you can't change from white to black or from male to female. You can identify as a certain way if you want, but you have not actually changed race or sex. This is science.

I'm also curious about this "test". If there's a test, what does it measure? What are the units and what is the range of normal? Can you screen a population for it?

Gender is based in sex which is why 97+% of the world is cis. There are two sexes and so two genders.

Transgenders experience gender dysphoria.

That means the brain waves of a trans person’s brains emits waves of the gender that doesn't match with their sex. That is what gender dysphoria is. There are also cases of mixed up chromosomes. It's not all simple XX and XY and the differences can cause this feeling of being born in the wrong body or actual genital mutations, like the way intersex have. There is a physical basis for a lot of it.

That's not to say that it's true for every trans that wants a sex change but it can be tested for with brain scans and DNA tests. They're not "changing sex" per se. It's there in the brain and in the body already.

As for transracial, it's like pigeonholing a race of people, as the weeaboos do, or fetishizing a culture and skin color. I will accede that being born in a culture can make you feel a part of that culture but I guess I see "race" as a skin definition. I know that's not correct because there's more to it but it feels like a trendy way to be racist.

 

[FGB]

Ok.

I checked out my Drivers license and my Concealed Handgun license ...and I am almost certain I am me.

 

[Ramone45]

Referring to Bruce Jenner, I fail to see how pretending to be a woman (at 65 years of age) could possibly alleviate the dysphoria he feels about his sexual identity. I would think it could make it worse, because it's all fake.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

Because there's actual science to back up transgenderism. It's not a choice but an actual feeling of disconnect inside that can be tested for.

How about I ask you a question: what does it mean, if you were white and born to two white parents, to say "I feel like I'm actually black"? What does "feeling" black or Japanese mean? Go ahead and make the mental connection implied by that. Then again if I remember correctly you don't actually believe transgenderism is a thing, so they all probably seem equally invalid.

Where is this science? Can you link me?

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

Gender is based in sex which is why 97+% of the world is cis. There are two sexes and so two genders.

Transgenders experience gender dysphoria.

That means the brain waves of a trans person’s brains emits waves of the gender that doesn't match with their sex. That is what gender dysphoria is. There are also cases of mixed up chromosomes. It's not all simple XX and XY and the differences can cause this feeling of being born in the wrong body or actual genital mutations, like the way intersex have. There is a physical basis for a lot of it.

That's not to say that it's true for every trans that wants a sex change but it can be tested for with brain scans and DNA tests. They're not "changing sex" per se. It's there in the brain and in the body already.

As for transracial, it's like pigeonholing a race of people, as the weeaboos do, or fetishizing a culture and skin color. I will accede that being born in a culture can make you feel a part of that culture but I guess I see "race" as a skin definition. I know that's not correct because there's more to it but it feels like a trendy way to be racist.

Please provide a scientific link to demonstrate this.

 

[mark_j]

Referring to Bruce Jenner, I fail to see how pretending to be a woman (at 65 years of age) could possibly alleviate the dysphoria he feels about his sexual identity. I would think it could make it worse, because it's all fake.

Probably best to ignore it all... I mean really, who cares what Bruce/Caitlin's issue is?
If he/she identifies as a woman so be it, say so and be done with it. But this constant on and on about it in the media is getting really tiring.

The whole thing smacks of a huge publicity stunt..