Seemingly widespread ratings manipulation

[NotWise]

That's an entirely fair point. Although, it seems unlikely to me that a good-faith sweep of fraudulent five bombs would result in such a uniform score distribution among the top lists (4.83 to 4.84). I think that uniformity is more likely to be caused by a troll who developed a script to add lower votes to top list stories until they reach an arbitrary threshold.

I concede that this is just pure speculation, though.

In my monitoring, that's what I saw. The added votes were mid-range votes like 3* rather than 1*, and they stopped when the story dropped below 4.84.

The site swept my story repeatedly, but the sweeps were like any other sweep. They weren't targeted at the down votes. The initial sweeps were moderately successful, and one or two large sweeps returned my story to the list, but they didn't appear to have a tool to stop what was happening, so the exercise was futile.

My story dropped from something like #24 to off the list, so now I don't know what's happening.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

It started in Oct 2024. I got to watch the 4 stories I had in the Lesbian Sex top 20 drop, along with all the others around them. As it was at precisely the time of the Valencian floods, I have a very clear frame of reference.

My saved downloaded stats show it starting in August 2025. I had three stories in the top list for N/N drop to 4.84 at the same time in my August 8th download. That is also when the large gaps in votes between stories with the same score started.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I am illustrating that beyond the flattening of scores in the top lists, there are other issues with it that people are ignoring.

If you look at the example with the votes, you will see that the story at the #11 position has a score of 4.84 with 2,093 votes. The story in the #12 position has a score of 4.84 with 685 votes.

I know for a fact that there are stories in this same category with scores of 4.84 and vote counts between these two because two of mine fit there until last week, yet they were not listed.

This "gap" of 1,485 votes cannot be explained simply by someone manipulating scores. If you look at other categories, you will see similar large gaps between stories (look at #6 & #7 or #13 & #14 in Lesbian Sex) with the same score. This only started happening when the flattening began, so there must be some correlation.

I still have no clue what you mean. What have views got to do with it? A story with 1,000,000 views and a rating of 4.843 will appear below a story with 100 views and a rating of 4.844 - both will appear with the public rating of 4.84. What’s the problem?

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I still have no clue what you mean. What have views got to do with it? A story with 1,000,000 views and a rating of 4.843 will appear below a story with 100 views and a rating of 4.844 - both will appear with the public rating of 4.84. What’s the problem?

Votes, not views.

Stories are placed in the top lists by order of their score, then by how many votes they have received. A story with a score of 4.85 with 500 votes gets ranked higher than a story at 4.85 and 499 votes.

Now, as I have shown, a story with a score of 4.84 and 2,093 votes got ranked higher than a story with a score of 4.84 and 685 votes. That is fine as long as there are no other stories with a rank of 4.84 and a vote count between these two, which there were. What happened for those other stories to get ignored in the top list?

 

[IWroteThis]

My saved downloaded stats show it starting in August 2026. I had three stories in the top list for N/N drop to 4.84 at the same time in my August 8th download. That is also when the large gaps in votes between stories with the same score started.

So, it hasn't started yet?

Sorry, couldn't resist, but you might want to edit the year in your post to something in the past.

 

[ThatNewGuy]

My saved downloaded stats show it starting in August 2026

It started before August, but you may not have noticed the effects on your stories until later.

On April 5, 2024, the Novels and Novellas top list had scores ranging from 4.93 to 4.87.

According to the Wayback Machine, most of your N&N stories were just outside the top list at 4.86 in May 2024.

What likely happened is that as stories above yours started getting bumped down, your stories appeared on the all-time top list (replacing stories of the same score that had lower vote totals than yours). Once your stories took their place on the top lists, they started getting hit with the same flattening and dropping in score too.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

It started before August, but you may not have noticed the effects on your stories until later.

On April 5, 2024, the Novels and Novellas top list had scores ranging from 4.93 to 4.87.

According to the Wayback Machine, most of your N&N stories were just outside the top list at 4.86 in May 2024.

What likely happened is that as stories above yours started getting bumped down, your stories appeared on the all-time top list (replacing stories of the same score that had lower vote totals than yours). Once your stories took their place on the top lists, they started getting hit with the same flattening and dropping in score too.

Again, you are looking only at the scores and not the gaps between stories and other oddities that began in August 2025.

 

[SimonDoom]

Now, as I have shown, a story with a score of 4.84 and 2,093 votes got ranked higher than a story with a score of 4.84 and 685 votes. That is fine as long as there are no other stories with a rank of 4.84 and a vote count between these two, which there were. What happened for those other stories to get ignored in the top list?

Have you checked to make sure those missing stories are not actually listed, but lower? Are they missing altogether?

Sometimes the scores on the toplists do not match the scores on our own My Stories lists.

Stories in the N/N category are highly compressed at the top. The number one story has a 4.85 score, as do the next 4. Most of the rest of the top 250 have 4.84. You have one at 224 with a 4.83. Just a tiny change in score would have a massive impact in terms of placement on this list.

I see the same pattern you do, though. It appears that for purposes of the score toplist, the score is rounded to two decimal points, and thereafter, AFTER the rounding, they are ranked by descending order of votes. I had thought Emily was correct, and my (perhaps wrong) recollection is that Emily's description of the ranking was correct in the past, but it doesn't seem to be the case now.

 

[ThatNewGuy]

Again, you are looking only at the scores and not the gaps between stories and other oddities that began in August 2025

I'm looking at the data I have available to me.

Like Emily, I don't understand the gap point you are making. What story or stories are missing that should be there in the top list? What were their scores and vote totals?

It sounds like a story in your catalog ticked up to 4.84 and had more than 685 votes and fewer than 2,093. You saw that in your Control Panel and assumed it should be reflected in the N&N top list. It wasn't. And you are using that as an example of an oddity. Is that right?

If so, I don't believe the all-time lists update instantly like they do in your control panel. My guess is your story picked up another vote and dropped back to 4.83 before the top list could reflect it at its 4.84 score. Can you point to any stories in your catalog or elsewhere that should appear in a gap right now but do not?

You also mentioned other oddities in your post, but it's not clear to me what you are referring to by that.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Have you checked to make sure those missing stories are not actually listed, but lower? Are they missing altogether?

Sometimes the scores on the toplists do not match the scores on our own My Stories lists.

Stories in the N/N category are highly compressed at the top. The number one story has a 4.85 score, as do the next 4. Most of the rest of the top 250 have 4.84. You have one at 224 with a 4.83. Just a tiny change in score would have a massive impact in terms of placement on this list.

I see the same pattern you do, though. It appears that for purposes of the score toplist, the score is rounded to two decimal points, and thereafter, AFTER the rounding, they are ranked by descending order of votes. I had thought Emily was correct, and my (perhaps wrong) recollection is that Emily's description of the ranking was correct in the past, but it doesn't seem to be the case now.

No, admittedly, I focused on the gaps where I had stories placed up until two weeks ago but they didn't appear on the list. I didn't comb through all the stories in the category by others to see if they fell in score or disappeared. I don't currently have any story with a score high enough to make the list.

On the all-time list, it just defies all expectations to see a gap of 8,688 votes between the #1 and #2 stories, followed by a gap of 1,556 between #2 and #3, then for the gap to disappear farther down.

The list used to be more consistent, similar to this:

 

[NotWise]

It started in Oct 2024. I got to watch the 4 stories I had in the Lesbian Sex top 20 drop, along with all the others around them. As it was at precisely the time of the Valencian floods, I have a very clear frame of reference.

Mid-Oct, 2024 was when I saw it start in Romance.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Votes, not views.

Correct - my bad.

Stories are placed in the top lists by order of their score, then by how many votes they have received. A story with a score of 4.85 with 500 votes gets ranked higher than a story at 4.85 and 499 votes.

No, they are ordered by their 3 d.p. rating which is why you see what you see. If the 3 d.p. rating is equal then yes it goes by votes.

 

[SimonDoom]

No, admittedly, I focused on the gaps where I had stories placed up until two weeks ago but they didn't appear on the list. I didn't comb through all the stories in the category by others to see if they fell in score or disappeared. I don't currently have any story with a score high enough to make the list.

On the all-time list, it just defies all expectations to see a gap of 8,688 votes between the #1 and #2 stories, followed by a gap of 1,556 between #2 and #3, then for the gap to disappear farther down.
View attachment 2617056
The list used to be more consistent, similar to this:

View attachment 2617060

Keeping in mind that I'm not a statistical wizard, I don't see why this seems so odd to you.

The first story, at the top of the list, is the result of an author with over 200 published stories, who has been publishing here since 2011, and who has over 11,000 followers. Those totals would insulate this author, and their stories, to at least some degree, from the consequence of downvoting.

Based on what I'm seeing, a downvoting campaign of some kind reduced most others stories to 4.84, where vote totals mattered. Once stories were reduced to 4.84, the downvoting stopped, so there's an extraordinary amount of compression at that level, with vote counts close to one another. Above that level, it's not at all surprising that the only 5 stories that managed to eke out higher scores would have highly disparate vote totals.

 

[NotWise]

Correct - my bad.

No, they are ordered by their 3 d.p. rating which is why you see what you see. If the 3 d.p. rating is equal then yes it goes by votes.

I've never seen evidence that the 3rd decimal point is used for ranking. All the rankings I see are explained by the score to two decimal points with the vote count as tie-breaker.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I've never seen evidence that the 3rd decimal point is used for ranking. All the rankings I see are explained by the score to two decimal points with the vote count as tie-breaker.

I had a convo about it a few years back.

 

[TheLobster]

I've never seen evidence that the 3rd decimal point is used for ranking. All the rankings I see are explained by the score to two decimal points with the vote count as tie-breaker.

Sorting by exact scores first would cause incongruences between the top list order and the rounded score combined with the vote count. You would see cases where two stories have the same visible score (up to 2 decimal points), story A has more votes than story B, and yet B appears before A.

I’ve never seen this happen; but if the exact-score sorting is indeed in effect, then it should be quite easy to find examples of such reversals.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I've got a story in Novels, currently sitting at 4.90 with 92 votes. At some point it will hit 100 votes, probably with the score in the same range.

It will be at 4.84 within a day or two.

I had about a dozen stories with scores above 4.85. Some had been in that high range for years. They all dropped to 4.84.

Nobody is going to convince me that that is a natural statistical outcome, or whatever, especially when other writers are reporting the same thing.

Digging through old files, I found my downloaded stats from February 1, 2024. Man, did I sell myself short. At that time I had 36 submissions with scores of 4.85 or above. Today, I have two, and that's because one has less than 100 votes and the other just got swept yesterday. I expect it will be back in line by this time tomorrow.

I respect all the work people have put into trying to figure this out, but at this point my working theory is that the problem is neither trolls nor a deliberate policy on the part of the management. I think it's some sort of bug in the system and Manu either has no idea how to fix it, or has decided it would be too much work or expense to do so.

I know some of you think those of us who have been hit hardest by this are being crybabies, but I write in hope of connecting with readers. Views, comments and favorites on my back catalog have dwindled as it has disappeared from the top lists, and I don't think it's unreasonable to hold some resentment about that.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I know some of you think those of us who have been hit hardest by this are being crybabies

As a wise woman once posted - those who’s work is (or has been) highly-rated tend to have a different perspective on how serious this is (there are some highly-rated authors who are more chilled about it of course, like benzo chilled).

 

[BobbyBrandt]

No, they are ordered by their 3 d.p. rating which is why you see what you see. If the 3 d.p. rating is equal then yes it goes by votes.

I respectfully disagree.

If you examine the lists, you will see that the vote count is exactly what ranks stories with the same 2 d.p. score. Not one that I see has a vote lower above a vote higher, which would be the case if the 3 d.p. was the determining factor.

 

[SimonDoom]

I know some of you think those of us who have been hit hardest by this are being crybabies, but I write in hope of connecting with readers. Views, comments and favorites on my back catalog has dwindled as it has disappeared from the top lists, and I don't think it's unreasonable to hold some resentment about that.

I don't think people who complain about what's been going on are crybabies. I can understand how it is frustrating for them. What I push back against are the pleas by those extremely few who benefit from high rankings universalizing their experience and contending that it demonstrates that the system is "broken" -- whatever that means -- and that it presents a compelling case for change in a way that benefits them (but not anybody else). We should all be self-aware and humble enough to understand that the site does not exist for us individually. It serves a larger purpose. We come here and publish stories here with the tacit agreement that the site will serve that larger purpose, not us individually.

I, too, want to connect with readers. That's my primary measure of "success" at Literotica. I've found after 9 years of publishing that I can do that perfectly well without having ANY stories at the top of toplists. I have no stories ranked over 4.81, and during my time here I seldom have. It hasn't stopped me from achieving "success," as I see it, by one iota. I get a steady and fairly predictable stream of readers for my stories, including older stories, day after day. I accumulate followers and favorites, and those in turn help generate more reads, more votes, more favorites, and more followers. It should not be too difficult for the small minority of authors who have very high scores to understand that to those of us who do not have those same high scores their complaints and pleas for change ring a bit hollow. "Join the club" is a perfectly understandable response.

Chasing high rankings is a zero-sum game. For every person who climbs the list, somebody falls down. This is not, in my view, a healthy and artistically fulfilling way to approach publishing at Literotica. What I've found is that one can completely disregard that way of thinking and still find considerable success and satisfaction from publishing stories here.

I hope that Literotica finds a way of dealing with this problem of concerted downvoting, whoever is doing it and however they're doing it. It sucks. But if it doesn't, and things go on the way they are, it's just not that big a deal, from the standpoint of the Site, from the standpoint of readers, and from the standpoint of the vast majority of authors. And one thing we know for sure: Literotica is not going to eliminate anonymous voting and commenting. And for good reasons (which I agree with, and some others agree with, and which the majority, I imagine, don't care about at all). There are ways to navigate this site as an author and find fulfillment and satisfaction that do not depend at all on pursuing the highest scores on toplists. I think much unnecessary agitation could be avoided by adapting one's expectations. It beats pointlessly and endlessly butting one's head against the wall by worrying about downvoting.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I don't think people who complain about what's been going on are crybabies. I can understand how it is frustrating for them. What I push back against are the pleas by those extremely few who benefit from high rankings universalizing their experience and contending that it demonstrates that the system is "broken" -- whatever that means -- and that it presents a compelling case for change in a way that benefits them (but not anybody else). We should all be self-aware and humble enough to understand that the site does not exist for us individually. It serves a larger purpose. We come here and publish stories here with the tacit agreement that the site will serve that larger purpose, not us individually.

I, too, want to connect with readers. That's my primary measure of "success" at Literotica. I've found after 9 years of publishing that I can do that perfectly well without having ANY stories at the top of toplists. I have no stories ranked over 4.81, and during my time here I seldom have. It hasn't stopped me from achieving "success," as I see it, by one iota. I get a steady and fairly predictable stream of readers for my stories, including older stories, day after day. I accumulate followers and favorites, and those in turn help generate more reads, more votes, more favorites, and more followers. It should not be too difficult for the small minority of authors who have very high scores to understand that to those of us who do not have those same high scores their complaints and pleas for change ring a bit hollow. "Join the club" is a perfectly understandable response.

Chasing high rankings is a zero-sum game. For every person who climbs the list, somebody falls down. This is not, in my view, a healthy and artistically fulfilling way to approach publishing at Literotica. What I've found is that one can completely disregard that way of thinking and still find considerable success and satisfaction from publishing stories here.

I hope that Literotica finds a way of dealing with this problem of concerted downvoting, whoever is doing it and however they're doing it. It sucks. But if it doesn't, and things go on the way they are, it's just not that big a deal, from the standpoint of the Site, from the standpoint of readers, and from the standpoint of the vast majority of authors. And one thing we know for sure: Literotica is not going to eliminate anonymous voting and commenting. And for good reasons (which I agree with, and some others agree with, and which the majority, I imagine, don't care about at all). There are ways to navigate this site as an author and find fulfillment and satisfaction that do not depend at all on pursuing the highest scores on toplists. I think much unnecessary agitation could be avoided by adapting one's expectations. It beats pointlessly and endlessly butting one's head against the wall by worrying about downvoting.

I don't take issue with anything in your post. But, I don't write in the popular categories, I tend to write longer, and my stories have a low stroke per word ratio. I have always seen high scores as my path to finding the readers who will appreciate my writing. There is plenty of room for both approachs. (And I know you aren't saying otherwise.)

 

[CleverGenericName]

I don't think people who complain about what's been going on are crybabies. I can understand how it is frustrating for them. What I push back against are the pleas by those extremely few who benefit from high rankings universalizing their experience and contending that it demonstrates that the system is "broken" -- whatever that means -- and that it presents a compelling case for change in a way that benefits them (but not anybody else). We should all be self-aware and humble enough to understand that the site does not exist for us individually. It serves a larger purpose. We come here and publish stories here with the tacit agreement that the site will serve that larger purpose, not us individually.

I, too, want to connect with readers. That's my primary measure of "success" at Literotica. I've found after 9 years of publishing that I can do that perfectly well without having ANY stories at the top of toplists. I have no stories ranked over 4.81, and during my time here I seldom have. It hasn't stopped me from achieving "success," as I see it, by one iota. I get a steady and fairly predictable stream of readers for my stories, including older stories, day after day. I accumulate followers and favorites, and those in turn help generate more reads, more votes, more favorites, and more followers. It should not be too difficult for the small minority of authors who have very high scores to understand that to those of us who do not have those same high scores their complaints and pleas for change ring a bit hollow. "Join the club" is a perfectly understandable response.

Chasing high rankings is a zero-sum game. For every person who climbs the list, somebody falls down. This is not, in my view, a healthy and artistically fulfilling way to approach publishing at Literotica. What I've found is that one can completely disregard that way of thinking and still find considerable success and satisfaction from publishing stories here.

I hope that Literotica finds a way of dealing with this problem of concerted downvoting, whoever is doing it and however they're doing it. It sucks. But if it doesn't, and things go on the way they are, it's just not that big a deal, from the standpoint of the Site, from the standpoint of readers, and from the standpoint of the vast majority of authors. And one thing we know for sure: Literotica is not going to eliminate anonymous voting and commenting. And for good reasons (which I agree with, and some others agree with, and which the majority, I imagine, don't care about at all). There are ways to navigate this site as an author and find fulfillment and satisfaction that do not depend at all on pursuing the highest scores on toplists. I think much unnecessary agitation could be avoided by adapting one's expectations. It beats pointlessly and endlessly butting one's head against the wall by worrying about downvoting.

I guess it depends on what you think the purpose of a Toplist should be. When I started reading stories on Lit, I went to the Toplists to find highly-rated stories by other authors. In other words, I was looking for the top-rated stories. The top lists have since morphed, through whatever mechanism, into pretty-good-stories-in-no-particular-order lists. Is this more democratic? Maybe? But I would posit that most people go to the top lists to find the highest-ranked stories, not to be introduced to as broad a range of really good stories as possible.

From a practical perspective, I have been debating trying to shift into more traditional publishing (getting an agent, that kind of thing), and it was actually helpful to be able to say that I had x stories in the top 20 stories on Lit. I'm old and retired, so this whole writing thing is purely a lark for me, but for younger authors who have a chance to make a career out of writing, having highly rated stories was one of the few available mechanisms you could use to make a quantitative argument about the quality of your writing.

I'd also push back on the contention that chasing rankings is a zero-sum game. Maybe it is for the writers involved (even then, for me, it's helpful to read stories by better writers to help me improve), but it certainly isn't for readers looking for well-written stories. For them, well-functioning top lists have a great deal of utility.

 

[Bob_Shortbread]

I'm glad to read this thread, as this happened to me and there's some comfort knowing it's site-wide and not personal. One morning my story hit 4.85 and was suddenly #2 in the non-consent all time list. It was 1-voted within hours, and then another 1-vote, daily, for about 5 or 6 days until it hit 4.72.

The silver lining is, it was never *really* #2 on the list, since without all this corrupt voting there might have been pages of 4.9 stories ahead of mine.

 

[NotWise]

I guess it depends on what you think the purpose of a Toplist should be. When I started reading stories on Lit, I went to the Toplists to find highly-rated stories by other authors. In other words, I was looking for the top-rated stories. The top lists have since morphed, through whatever mechanism, into pretty-good-stories-in-no-particular-order lists. Is this more democratic? Maybe? But I would posit that most people go to the top lists to find the highest-ranked stories, not to be introduced to as broad a range of really good stories as possible.

From a practical perspective, I have been debating trying to shift into more traditional publishing (getting an agent, that kind of thing), and it was actually helpful to be able to say that I had x stories in the top 20 stories on Lit. I'm old and retired, so this whole writing thing is purely a lark for me, but for younger authors who have a chance to make a career out of writing, having highly rated stories was one of the few available mechanisms you could use to make a quantitative argument about the quality of your writing.

I'd also push back on the contention that chasing rankings is a zero-sum game. Maybe it is for the writers involved (even then, for me, it's helpful to read stories by better writers to help me improve), but it certainly isn't for readers looking for well-written stories. For them, well-functioning top lists have a great deal of utility.

I think the purpose of the all-time toplist was to give readers a way to find the best stories published on Lit. So many stories now have the same rating that it can't fulfill that purpose. The 30-day and 12-month lists may still be useful.

The advanced search can be used to produce a sort of all-time top list, or lists over shorter periods. For that use, it needs some improvement. The search result differs from the toplist by including stories with fewer votes. It doesn't fix the voting damage.

It all makes me think that the all-time top list is obsolete because the site can't protect the stories on it. The site might be able to protect future highly-rated stories by taking the list down.

 

[Stanfield2025]

This site is so weird, man.