Seeking information.. & help!

[TheWanderer]

(Please do not feel any of this is said 'against' any preference or liking, it's all personal opinion and such.)

All right, let's see how short I can make this very long story... :j

About 5 years ago, I met this woman online, and we hit it off. She travelled, and after a lot of conversation, we met and had an incredible night. It was a bit like D/s in that she had never had a man try to fulfill all her requests, spank her a bit, push her limits - like I said, incredible.

But a long-distance relationship was too hard, so we split - only to try again 3 months later. Another great night, but this time she gave.. in retrospect, very much like a sub turned loose.. showing the love, care, and emotion in return.

After another year of time, I moved out to live with her (which was 'too much too soon', but hindsight = 20/20, etc.) and we've been together.. mostly.. for 4 years. Sadly, while she has had an interest in D/s for a long while, due to emotional/physical abuse, she had communication issues and couldn't really express this. Due to a lot of other problems in the past, we moved into a place where we each have a bedroom - we were supposed to be 'trying again', with more space.

Here's where this starts having something to do with this forum. :j When she started showing an interest in D/s, the pics she showed me were heavy on the tying up and gagging. With her background, I KNEW she couldn't handle that - not realizing what she wanted was to FEEL that way (tied, restrained, dominated). And when she got therapy for the abuse, our relationship problems had taken its toll. And when I finally understood how she wanted to be treated (read her stories, read her poetry), we had broken up.

However, the good times we had together, the things I showed her - we're still best friends and great roommates.. and for the first time in 30 years, I found myself head over heels in love. Now, she's still a little distrustful of me due to the past problems, but that can heal with time - and my proving myself.

Sorry for being long-winded, here's the actual information request: she's VERY interested in being with a dominant man, but I always held back due to being worried about her past, and not wanting to tie her up like a kidnapping victim (i.e. not understanding what she really wanted). However, all the information I read about being dominant with a woman is all wrapped up in sex. And we won't be having sex anytime soon.

I understand the basics (I'm re-reading Screw The Roses and reviewing things she's written for more insight), but I'm not sure how you start off - without havinga sexual relationship, how could a guy start to show a girl he's interested in being her Dom, and take the small steps toward establishing the necessary trust and love without moving up to the sexual activities?

Thanks in advance, and I'll be happy to clarify any questions...


The Wanderer

 

[cymbidia]

Excellent question, TheWanderer!

D/s is mostly emotional. It expresses itself in sexual ways very often, but there's a whole world of "things to do" that don't involve explicit sexual touching.

For instance:
1. Arrive at an understanding regarding her making your morning coffe, or evening coffee, or some small service she will perform for you daily. The coffee will have to be leanred to be made to your tastes, perfectly. You'll have to teach her that and she'll have to be open to accepting such instruction from you.

2. Move into her performing more personal services for you. Slowly. Manicures, for instance, given on a bi-weekly basis are an intimate service, sub-oriented service - but one that's not sexual.

There are many more such suggestions that will come from others here. These are just small beginning ideas.

You've offered a good solid question.
Thank you.
We need this right now.

 

[drsalt]

how to...

Cymbidia is ontrack. It is not required that a D/s relationship be sexual, though eventually there will be a sexual aspect to it. Which is not to say that there should not be a sensual aspect. And that may be your ticket to bringing your relationship with this person to a sexual level.

However, one thing you say concerns me:

Sadly, while she has had an interest in D/s for a long while, due to emotional/physical abuse, she had communication issues and couldn't really express this.

There is more to the story than we out here can know. If you know it, you need to take it into account. Early abuse leaves scars. And maybe this D/s relationship only seems right for her because of it. It may not be the healthiest type of relationship for her.

Take care.

 

[Ulyssa]

Believe it or not this is serious.

Purchase one of those oversized Hershey candy bars which can be broken square by square by square and have her feed you one square at a time.

Have her arrange the broken squares on plate in a pattern of your choice. You may need to refrigerate the bar ahead of time to do this.

At specifically timed intervals make her feed one square to you. She must watch the clock and verbally ask you if it is time yet. You can vary the time as you see fit--"wait 30 seconds" Tell me when one minute is up, etc.

Allow her to sniff each square as she feeds it to you. When she gets to the very last square, make her wait at least double the usual time. Then inform her that she is to consume the last square of chocolate.

It will probably be the best square of chocolate she's ever experienced in her life.

Just a sticky brown, sugary thought I figured I'd pass on.

 

[SexySusan]

Ulyssa .... now I really want chocolate ... thank you for your wonderful and sensuous idea.

TheWanderer, I was just thinking about the taking control aspect of a D/s relationship. I find it very interesting to have a sub ask for permission (for all kinds of things, e.g. when s/he want to meet some friends, spend larger amounts of money ...). I don't know if that's already established in your relationship.

Best of luck!
Susan

 

[RisiaSkye]

My first serious relationship was as a sub to an mDom who had been my platonic friend for some time. I was trying to deal with abuse issues and a fairly recent sexual assault (about a year previous), still a teenager. So, I wasn't emotionally prepared for the reality of my having sexual desires or submission desires, much less thinking about getting into a BDSM relationship.

MF (and that's such an appropriate title for him) started by subtly directing my clothing choices. When I wore colors he liked, he let me know. My self esteem was still suffering, and the compliments meant a tremendous amount to me. I started wearing those styles/colors/whatever more, and he knew that I was responding to his reactions and adjusting myself to please him, because he was watching for it.

Long story short, it gave him enough of a green light to feel comfortable continuing to push the issue a little at a time. And thinking back on it, I see how it gave me incentive and--perhaps more important, in my case--it felt like it gave me permission to tune in to my submissive qualities. His enjoyment of what I was doing, the continual reinforcement, made me much more open to ongoing suggestions. But, if it had started more aggressively, even more sensually, it might have very easily scared me off. I was that fucked up about sex and guilt.

My suspicion is, if she's not yet comfortable with who she is and she hasn't fully dealt with the abuse issues, she's going to need rebuilding far more than training. Abused people know how to compromise, to cater to someone, to try desperately to avoid punishment (whatever form that takes); victims who haven't made peace also know all about shame and guilt. What they don'i usually know is that someone who cares for them will make those experiences of submission rewarding rather than terrifying and destructive.

Of course, I'm projecting my own life experience here, so take all of that with a grain of salt, okay?

 

[WillowPuss]

<snip>Abused people know how to compromise, to cater to someone, to try desperately to avoid punishment (whatever form that takes); victims who haven't made peace also know all about shame and guilt. What they don'i usually know is that someone who cares for them will make those experiences of submission rewarding rather than terrifying and destructive.
<snip>

Ohh wow! How I wish I had read this years and years ago!!!




To add a small suggestion to the service type submission - you say you are now housemates. Does she do all the cooking? Cleaning?
Maybe she could cook you your choice of food for you both?

Do you watch television/videos together?
Maybe she could sit at your feet with you gently stroking her hair?



And then, possibly, in the months to come, maybe she will need a light spanking if she does something not to your satisfaction? (And for spanking - read anything else she finds a mild turn on)

 

[TheWanderer]

My suspicion is, if she's not yet comfortable with who she is and she hasn't fully dealt with the abuse issues, she's going to need rebuilding far more than training. Abused people know how to compromise, to cater to someone, to try desperately to avoid punishment (whatever form that takes); victims who haven't made peace also know all about shame and guilt. What they don'i usually know is that someone who cares for them will make those experiences of submission rewarding rather than terrifying and destructive.

Well, there's more informtion I should give, I guess. Wasn't sure if I should just babble on in my original post or wait to fill in people asking for more info.. :j

She's 40, and this abuse was from age 14-17 in her first marriage (Mississippi). Last year, we broke up for two weeks but she asked me to try again... during that time, she started therapy, and has pretty much recovered - even called her ex-husband, who's now a broken-down druggie with nothing - HA!

Anyway, it's no longer "showing pictures or stories to say 'That's interesting.'" - it's full-fledged "this is what I want", now that she feels empowered enough to talk about her desires.

...if this helps any... :]

 

[TheWanderer]

To add a small suggestion to the service type submission - you say you are now housemates. Does she do all the cooking? Cleaning?
Maybe she could cook you your choice of food for you both?

Do you watch television/videos together?
Maybe she could sit at your feet with you gently stroking her hair?

Okay, time for more clarification, I see. :j

She and I are best friends, but right now she's not romantically interested in me - mostly it's a trust issue, but I'm working on that. (And a self-confidence/self-control issue, but that's just a matter of giving her time to see I've conquered it and not just trying to 'act right' for a while).

We watch movies together (when we have time), I've told her (not asked, heh) that she's going out with me on Friday night. Her daughter (13, we're great friends) can come, or not - I have no interest in excluding her.

As far as the chores, I'm actually more the 'chores' guy (I am *such* a catch! heh). I usually clean the kitchen most often, when we cook dinner, she does that more than I do; I do my own laundry, she does hers (we combine to help each other out); for cleaning, yardwork, the other basic stuff, we split it about evenly. We're still roommates, and it wouldn't seem fair not to.

Again, hope this helps - I guess I could clarify by saying I'm looking for small ways to show her I'm able to take control (and move up to other things) over time. We DID explore some D/s, but it was mostly role-playing during intimate times. I tried commanding her to kneel once - she spent nearly 15 minutes on the floor ROFL at me.. guess we hadn't progressed that far yet.
[Fortunately, I love the sound of her laughter.. heh]

But anyway, if things 'go there' again, I want to take this all the way for her.. but for now, while I'm working on the other aspects, I could use some pointers... Thanks in advance!

 

[WillowPuss]

I am so new to this that I am possibly not the best person to be giving advice.

When we first started our journey, Robuck read as much as he could on the many sites out there for newbie Dom/mes.
I think there is a whole lot on castlerealm.com - you might get some hints there.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

My advice to you is to read, read, and read some more.

Here's a link to a great thread that Wizard maintains for us, with lots of great links to other places on the web with information. Sorry I don't have any other suggestions.

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69529


good luck to you on your quest for more knowledge.


dixi

 

["angel" eve]

my personal view

my girl was abused in the past. not so many years back as she is only 21 now. the abuse was emotional, verbal, sometimes physical. but sexually she has never been abused persay, seriously misguided would be a reasonable discription though. at least to my knowledge.

the tough part for me has always been my need to remind her that she is loved, while being controled by me. hugs and kisses, and playing with her hair, wispers that she is beautiful and i love her ussually satisfy this need, along with hugging her as she sleeps, and waking her up with a kiss on the forehead, and a carress of her face. this way she feels loved, and i feel that she needs me to love her. it makes us both feel good about ourselves and our relationship for those loving moments to exist alongside and intermixed with the harsher sexual moments. with a cuddle, and a kiss on the forehead i untie her. i carress her skin after bring pain to it. this is love, and this is D/s.

this may be more about a sexual realtionship than you have asked about Wanderer, i realise that, but i want to affirm that abuse can be delt with and a submissive who has been abused in the past can enjoy being controled, in a loving manner.

 

[MsWorthy]

Okay, time for more clarification, I see. :j

She and I are best friends, but right now she's not romantically interested in me - mostly it's a trust issue, but I'm working on that. (And a self-confidence/self-control issue, but that's just a matter of giving her time to see I've conquered it and not just trying to 'act right' for a while).


We watch movies together (when we have time), I've told her (not asked, heh) that she's going out with me on Friday night. Her daughter (13, we're great friends) can come, or not - I have no interest in excluding her.

My intention is not to criticize you, Wanderer, but you can not or should not try to dominate your friends. To dominate someone, you must have her consent. If she hasn't given her consent yet, I would back off on trying to control her and on telling her what she will or will not do.

As far as the chores, I'm actually more the 'chores' guy (I am *such* a catch! heh). I usually clean the kitchen most often, when we cook dinner, she does that more than I do; I do my own laundry, she does hers (we combine to help each other out); for cleaning, yardwork, the other basic stuff, we split it about evenly. We're still roommates, and it wouldn't seem fair not to.

Again, hope this helps - I guess I could clarify by saying I'm looking for small ways to show her I'm able to take control (and move up to other things) over time. We DID explore some D/s, but it was mostly role-playing during intimate times. I tried commanding her to kneel once - she spent nearly 15 minutes on the floor ROFL at me.. guess we hadn't progressed that far yet.
[Fortunately, I love the sound of her laughter.. heh]

But anyway, if things 'go there' again, I want to take this all the way for her.. but for now, while I'm working on the other aspects, I could use some pointers... Thanks in advance!

I think the only thing you can do to prove yourself trustworthy and capable of dominating her is to exhibit behaviors that show you are trustworthy and capable of handling the responsibility of control.

These are pretty general and do not pertain to bdsm exclusively.

1. Never lie, cheat, or steal.
2. Do not play mind games.
3. Do not manipulate (or attempt to manipulate) others.
4. Do not try to take control of her or anyone else, but be ready in step in if ever asked for help.
5. Handle conflict/stress/misunderstanding with as much finesse as is possible.
7. Never divulge confidences or talk negatively about other people behind their back (we all recognize that if you will tell us her secrets, you will probably tell her our secrets and if you tell us what a slut Suzie is you are probably saying something about us to someone else). Sometimes, I think people don't realize how bad this makes them look.
8. Maintain control of your reactions.
9. "Clean up your own backyard." Whatever challenges you are facing - (we all have them) emotional problems, overdue bills, job/career, addiction...etc. - begin to actively work on resolving them. I am not saying you must be perfect, but you must be taking active steps to clear up/work through your own struggles.

To be viewed as trustworthy and capable of controlling another's life, you must have a visible plan of action (that is already working for you), good character, moral beliefs (of your chosing), and good self-discipline. Most people don't expect perfection, and if they see you plodding along, working steadily to improve yourself, you will earn their respect.

Tips of a more personal nature:

1. Find something you genuinely like about her and point it out (never give insincere compliments, because once she "catches" you in one, she won't believe a word you say after that).
2. Be available to her if she needs an ear (you must be willing to listen and not sit with your own agenda in mind).
3. Encourage her when she is facing a difficulty (show your faith in her abilities). Remind her that you would be honored to help if she would like it. (don't take her power/control away by stepping in without being asked, allow her to decide if she would like to give it to you)
4. Always build up her self-esteem; detail examples in which she has handled a problem well. (never tell her she can't do something, even if you are pretty darn sure she can't. If she expresses fear, tell her you would be happy to stand behind her, and on the "off-chance" that she falls, you will catch her).

In my opinion, the best way to be noticed is NOT to try to be noticed. If it appears as though you are tooting your own horn, she will think you are putting on a show (acting) for her. Find your center, grow stronger, impress yourself, don't try to impress others - and you will be noticed.

 

[SexySusan]

MsWorthy, I must say, your post is simply ... wow ... I totally agree.

TheWanderer, I don't think "telling her" to go out with you will prove to her you are a worthy dominant. First she must consent, then you can take those little steps that were mentioned.

Did you talk to her about your recent ideas?

I'm a little confused about your "kneeling" story as well. If you ask her to kneel and she has a hysterical fit of laughter, it doesn't sound like she is willing to submit to you, at least to me.

Before you engage in a BDSM relationship, you must discuss in detail what you are both willing to do. You can't just decide what you want - she has to be clear about it as well.

You can't just start dominating her and then hope she'll like it. You have to ask her first.

 

[MsWorthy]

MsWorthy, I must say, your post is simply ... wow ... I totally agree.

Thank you, Susan. *smiles*

 

[TheWanderer]

Okay, thank you to everyone who contributed.. it really helped clear my head about some misconceptions. I think I really had it wrong, that if I showed small amounts of a dominating personality without trying to really control her (I had considered some small things like telling her to do that which she would usually do anyway, to give a sense of following orders) - but really, when I look at it from an outside perspective, I guess it's a form of manipulation - and I don't want to do that.

Apparently this fella she worked with a while back (she's military) also had an interest in D/s, and has really caught her attention. Now, it seems, the only chance I have of 'trying again' with her - which I would be doing with full intent to pursue as a D to help her unleash her sub side - is if/when her relationship with this other guy falls thru, ends, doesn't work - etc.

So while I still have an interest, though not as strong if I'm not in a relationship with someone who's wanting D/s actively, I need to put it to rest.. because the agonizing pain and hurt I'm going through as she steadily gets more drawn in, as she builds up to his return from overseas, is difficult enough without the additional reminders.

Who knows? Maybe I'll be back on this forum someday asking for tips on how to effectively Dom a sub that most other Doms consider to be one of their own... lol

Thank you all, and take care.

 

[Lancecastor]

I meant to say this too you weeks ago, Wanderer.

If I was your buddy.....I'd pull you to one side, like your buddy's supposed to do, and give it to you straight up.

This gal is not romantically interested in you...you've said it yourself. You see it yourself. You are beating a dead horse.

You're wasting your time by being her "friend" when what you really want is to be her "boyfriend".

She's looking, and has a guy she wants.

So, be her friend, tell her you're happy for her new love interest....but then say "ta ta" and go get yourself a girlfriend, my man!

As soon as you do that, two things will happen:

1. You'll likely forget about wanting her as your lover, no more self torture;

and

2. If she actually IS interested in you, she'll figure it out when she sees you laughing with and kissing another woman (preferably someone prettier with a smaller ass)...and she'll come lookin' for you.

Then, and only then, will you be where you want to be with this woman, my friend....in the driver's seat, calling the shots.

My friend...you know these things to be true.

And as you know, a guy stuck on a woman who doesn't want him is the sorriest critter in the world.

And I hate to see my buddy moping over a woman....because You are a cool guy and there are LOTS of fish in the sea!

Am I right?

You know I am!

So...let's get busy, my friend! Chin up, shoulders square, belly in...we're going to scope out the babes tonite!

Cheers;
Lance

Okay, thank you to everyone who contributed.. it really helped clear my head about some misconceptions. I think I really had it wrong, that if I showed small amounts of a dominating personality without trying to really control her (I had considered some small things like telling her to do that which she would usually do anyway, to give a sense of following orders) - but really, when I look at it from an outside perspective, I guess it's a form of manipulation - and I don't want to do that.

Apparently this fella she worked with a while back (she's military) also had an interest in D/s, and has really caught her attention. Now, it seems, the only chance I have of 'trying again' with her - which I would be doing with full intent to pursue as a D to help her unleash her sub side - is if/when her relationship with this other guy falls thru, ends, doesn't work - etc.

So while I still have an interest, though not as strong if I'm not in a relationship with someone who's wanting D/s actively, I need to put it to rest.. because the agonizing pain and hurt I'm going through as she steadily gets more drawn in, as she builds up to his return from overseas, is difficult enough without the additional reminders.

Who knows? Maybe I'll be back on this forum someday asking for tips on how to effectively Dom a sub that most other Doms consider to be one of their own... lol

Thank you all, and take care.

 

[Daedalus77]

A question

First let me say you have been given good advice so far so I won't repeat it.

Sex is not a requirement of bdsm and of the things you mentioned doing I didn't see sex involved.

Here is my question, you said she has showed you pictures and said this is what I want to do. It seems to me she is telling you where to start. Why don't you say would you like to try that now?

If she says yes you need to know what you expect from this. Is this a way for you to (hopefully) have sex with her? Is this a way to make her love you? If you can't say 100% no to the questions then all you are doing is messing with her mind.

Both of you need to understand what a safe word is so both of you know how to stop the scene. She can be comfortable knowing this is playtime.

We have friends that we never have sex with but get together for bdsm weekends. It's a learning thing for all of us and sexy as hell but not sex oriented.

I'm new to these boards but I've I been in the scene for about 4 years. Please remember this is just my opinion.