Scars

[bellisarius]

Scars, everyone that lived in anything other than a bubble has some. Big, small, in between. Each and every scar is a part of your history. Hopefully your scars are just minor little reminders but maybe you have a really ugly one somewhere. Regardless, all of those scars are a reminder not to do "that" again.

Now you can cover those scars up with makeup of one sort or another but the scars remain if only in your own mind. The change is cosmetic only.

Nations are just like you and I, they all have scars. Scars that remind them of where they've been and what they've done. Some scars are decidedly ugly, but they're still a reminder to not do "that" again. You can try to cover them up all you want, but the scars remain. Tearing down statues, demanding that places be renamed are merely cosmetic. Nothing changes, the scars remain, and thinking otherwise is a case of self delusion. It's a form of insanity and insane people make other folks nervous. Nervous to the point of taking some sort of action and that action usually leads to another scar.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Germany has a nasty one.

 

[bellisarius]

Washington State has a problem too it seems.

 

[Rightguide]

Washington State has a problem too it seems.

Lancing its boil will leave another scar as well.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Scars, everyone that lived in anything other than a bubble has some. Big, small, in between. Each and every scar is a part of your history. Hopefully your scars are just minor little reminders but maybe you have a really ugly one somewhere. Regardless, all of those scars are a reminder not to do "that" again.

Now you can cover those scars up with makeup of one sort or another but the scars remain if only in your own mind. The change is cosmetic only.

Nations are just like you and I, they all have scars. Scars that remind them of where they've been and what they've done. Some scars are decidedly ugly, but they're still a reminder to not do "that" again. You can try to cover them up all you want, but the scars remain. Tearing down statues, demanding that places be renamed are merely cosmetic. Nothing changes, the scars remain, and thinking otherwise is a case of self delusion. It's a form of insanity and insane people make other folks nervous. Nervous to the point of taking some sort of action and that action usually leads to another scar.

Actual scars are indicative of some form of healing. Healing means some sort of learning and ability took place in order to not do "that" again.

When was the healing? What was the healing? What was the learning form that supposed healing? Who actually healed? Is it actually a covering up instead of healing and a wanting of not looking at what was under the covering up for those with the means and privilege to do so one wouldn't have to think about what caused the damage and could "move on" without actually healing because actually healing means feeling uncomfortable until said actual healing could take place?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/IhnButrVayotQCbWip/giphy.gif

 

[cinnefille]

I want all those statues gone too.
Given the controversies in their histories, they could be a painful daily reminder for those who ever experienced racism.

But as long as one doesn't whitewash history or vilifies.
Explain it to students and put it in a historical context. For example, half of Germany didn't end up following Hitler because "the White privileged fucks kill you if they could". The reasons were multifaceted.

So I want the statues gone, but I'm worried about the manner in which those mobs are doing it
as if they want to defy us " racist fucks".
Seriously. That's an ominous twist to what started as a good SJ movement.

 

[Biggs_Darklighter]

I can't be the only one who realizes this makes no sense at all.

 

[cinnefille]

Scars, everyone that lived in anything other than a bubble has some. Big, small, in between. Each and every scar is a part of your history. Hopefully your scars are just minor little reminders but maybe you have a really ugly one somewhere. Regardless, all of those scars are a reminder not to do "that" again.

Now you can cover those scars up with makeup of one sort or another but the scars remain if only in your own mind. The change is cosmetic only.

Nations are just like you and I, they all have scars. Scars that remind them of where they've been and what they've done. Some scars are decidedly ugly, but they're still a reminder to not do "that" again. You can try to cover them up all you want, but the scars remain. Tearing down statues, demanding that places be renamed are merely cosmetic. Nothing changes, the scars remain, and thinking otherwise is a case of self delusion. It's a form of insanity and insane people make other folks nervous. Nervous to the point of taking some sort of action and that action usually leads to another scar.

Oh, I just figured out what it is about the protests -notwithstanding the legitimate grievances- that annoys many people.

1. it feels overwhelming, so many huge events things in rapid succession in just 4 months, most manifested as chaos with no resolution in sight

2. You guys didn't pay attention, because it happened across the Ocean.
But I remember the early 90's after Communism fell. There was this entire cottage industry of people going on TV to bash 'the bad people' and denounce their former bosses. Apparently, many of them had profited during the previous regime, and some went on to amass fortunes.

 

[oggbashan]

Germany has a nasty one.

Two at least.

 

[SpeareChucker]

I want all those statues gone too.
Given the controversies in their histories, they could be a painful daily reminder for those who ever experienced racism.

But as long as one doesn't whitewash history or vilifies.
Explain it to students and put it in a historical context. For example, half of Germany didn't end up following Hitler because "the White privileged fucks kill you if they could". The reasons were multifaceted.

So I want the statues gone, but I'm worried about the manner in which those mobs are doing it
as if they want to defy us " racist fucks".
Seriously. That's an ominous twist to what started as a good SJ movement.

What's the terminal point?
Our founding fathers, including George Washington were slave owners.
Do we then erase their scars from our history? If we erase the conflict over the institution
then perhaps we should vilify the English too for colonizing, their genocide and the establishment of slavery;
perhaps England should be put on a quarantine list, no interaction, no ambassador, no trade, no reference...

You see, like a common extortionist, every time you give into a demand,
no matter how reasonable the justification might be
(It will really hurt your wife to find out!)
the demand(s) never end because
you give your blackmailer
power over you
via guilt.






As a half-breed, I have had to make peace with what white people
(Europeans) did to the red people (my maternal ancestors).
I forgive everyone their past transgressions
they took no part in.

 

[SpeareChucker]

I can't be the only one who realizes this makes no sense at all.

When the president of his local MENSA chapter cannot figure it out,
it makes me even more sure that I only think
that I am making sense of it...

 

[oggbashan]

The statue of Colston in Bristol was already well-known for being that of a slaver. There had been a movement in Bristol to rename the hall he gave to the city and the street. His statue was a reminder of Bristol's shameful past as a major slave-trading port.

But half of the City Centre of Bristol was built with money from slave trading. Do you destroy the whole city centre? Where does it stop?

I appreciate the intentions of Black Lives Matter but defacing our history by vandalism will be counter-productve, turning people against the movement.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Here's a thought to mull:
in the passion to erase history,
the push is on to eradicated names of
Confederate Generals that denote military facilities.
Here's the problem that I have with that: Most of the protestors
are so deficient when it comes to history, even US history, that unless
you thrust it into their face, they have zero idea as to who the forts are named after
or even if those generals fought over slavery or because they were merely defending their homes.

The North always hated the South for not being fully active bleeding participants in the Revolutionary War...

 

[cinnefille]

What's the terminal point?
Our founding fathers, including George Washington were slave owners.
Do we then erase their scars from our history? If we erase the conflict over the institution
then perhaps we should vilify the English too for colonizing, their genocide and the establishment of slavery;
perhaps England should be put on a quarantine list, no interaction, no ambassador, no trade, no reference...

You see, like a common extortionist, every time you give into a demand,
no matter how reasonable the justification might be
(It will really hurt your wife to find out!)
the demand(s) never end because
you give your blackmailer
power over you
via guilt.

Good points, actually.

1. If you want statues gone, you do it via public referendum, you don't give to the mob power over you.
-- Also - by "revolutionizing "statues removal" and the cheap theatrics, they have now forced another layer upon to the myth of contemp. White apartheid-like oppression. I cringe to imagine how this will be written in Liberal history books: "it took us a popular uprising to convince racist Whites to get rid of symbols of oppression".

2. And indeed - the part highlighted in blue.
those were times when slave ownership had been the norm for centuries, across All continents. The main thing is HOW they treated their slaves, and that in time they came to understand that it was a bad thing & tried to change it.

 

[SpeareChucker]

If we follow the logic,
Italy should be compelled to finish
the dismantling of the Coliseum for what it represents...

 

[LupusDei]

I'm a history junkie, I cry less over people than lost ancient ruins.

((Or my dog. It took the third heart attack to kill my dog, and even then she lived seven hours still last night. (Dogs don't normally survive any of that sort.) At least she went down like she lived, chasing, so let it be happy eternal chase for her. Sorry.))

Every occasion differs, and it often can be argued we become poorer losing even the most controversial monuments, still, I realize that tearing down statues can be more cathartic moment of living history than even erecting them -- especially because they are usually erected by edict of powers that be, but teared down by crowds experiencing high of mental unity. (Moreover, in a way, it even could arguably be a harmless substitute for a killing spree.)

Perhaps Lithuania did it best, they moved all the hundreds of Lenin's (and yes, it's literally hundreds) and few other occupation monuments all to a single location where they now serve as ridicule for tourists.

But as ironic the main Lenin in Riga was, erected at the far end of the Freedom Monument linden alley, looking away from it and waving his hand towards St. Petersburg like saying, hey guys, I'm from over there, he had to go, and was freaking too big to relocate. And of course, the Freedom Street was bearing his name while he was standing there. Of course, the Freedom Monument itself replaced statue of Peter the Great, erected just twenty years prior celebrating two hundred years since siege of Riga that killed over half of citizens thanks to plague and famine (still it wasn't captured, they managed to negotiate favorable terms of surrender, reinstating German landlords rights Kingdom of Sweden had stripped).

That Peter's horse looked away from the Old City too, and I wonder had it all four horseshoes -- he allegedly lost one, forced to run from the city, busted and insulted by a whore (he had spent the night with) in an attempt to personally scout the city fortifications incognito.

The important thing is to remember, to document and teach the young what monuments used to be where and why, and when and why they were put down or replaced, by whom and by what. The hard part is to make it all fun.

 

[bellisarius]

The entire logic of the vandals is reductio ad absurdum.

And your point is well made SC. Once you start giving in to these mental midgets the demands will never end, at least not until violence is met with violence. These people don't need name changes etc., they need long sessions with a mental heath counselor.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Sorry about your dog.

 

[SpeareChucker]

The entire logic of the vandals is reductio ad absurdum.

And your point is well made SC. Once you start giving in to these mental midgets the demands will never end, at least not until violence is met with violence. These people don't need name changes etc., they need long sessions with a mental heath counselor.

All too often, and this is part of the problem,
THEY ARE THE COUNSELLORS!

That mindset gravitates towards fields like that
because real science is too rigorous and demanding!

Why learn logic, math and proofs when you can spout rainbows and "wing it?"

 

[bellisarius]

Yeah, all contributors to "Psychology Today", aka "Pop Psychology." Social psychology has become a joke as an academic field.

 

[Saint Peter]

AJ and Ish continue to not get it. Together.

Once you start giving in to these mental midgets the demands

Bring out the Law and Order! Fire hoses and dogs are local solutions. This is no longer a local problem. How many cities have protests? How many countries??

Cameras (good, bad, and ugly) are everywhere. What happens in your front yard is known around the globe in minutes. Taking mental midgets for Rough Rides is not as easy as it used to be.


There has been a shift.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Lincoln, a scar to be hidden:



https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...oval-of-boston-lincoln-emancipation-memorial/

 

[bellisarius]

AJ and Ish continue to not get it. Together.


Bring out the Law and Order! Fire hoses and dogs are local solutions. This is no longer a local problem. How many cities have protests? How many countries??

Cameras (good, bad, and ugly) are everywhere. What happens in your front yard is known around the globe in minutes. Taking mental midgets for Rough Rides is not as easy as it used to be.


There has been a shift.

When they turn to rioting, looting, arson, assault, and murder they've lost the high ground. As far as I'm concerned the cops can set up overlapping fields of fire and break out the m-249's.

 

[cinnefille]

got off the phone with my parents a while ago, they make me laugh.

I didn't know that those dems. wrote 'ho' and 'bitch' on poor Queen Victoria's statue.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Good lord he's stupid...


I have dozens of posts saying to let the Seattle crew have their day,
have their way, and show us the way.

He sees a name(s) and goes into pure LWCJ mode.