Say goodbye to peace in the middle east.

zipman

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With the election results coming in, it looks like Hamas has won a majority of the votes, which effectively will delay if not doom any prospect of peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

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RAMALLAH, West Bank (CNN) -- In a stunning development ahead of official election results, Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qorie said he and the rest of the Palestinian Authority government will resign in the wake of militant group Hamas' apparent victory in historic elections.

The announcement was an acknowledgment that election results showed Hamas had won a majority of seats in the 132-seat Palestinian Legislative Council, supplanting the ruling Fatah party.

Qorie's office said it will be up to Hamas to form a new government.

"It's the choice of the people and it should be respected," Qorie said. "I think, if the majority is approved and has been reached, I think Hamas should form a new government, it's true. The president should ask Hamas to form a new government.

"For me personally, I sent my resignation to the president to enable him to choose a new prime minister," Qorie said.

Initial election results are scheduled to be released Thursday at 7 p.m. (noon ET).

Exit polls earlier had shown Hamas thrusting itself into the center of Palestinian politics but had not indicated an outright majority win by the group.

The exit poll from Bir Zeit University, a respected Palestinian school, showed Fatah garnered 46.4 percent of the vote and Hamas won 39.8 percent in the 132-seat Palestinian Legislative Council. That translates into 63 seats for Fatah and 58 for Hamas, according to the exit poll.

But other polls showed Hamas claiming a slim majority, a claim echoed by some Hamas officials, prompting a warning from Jerusalem.

Acting Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Israel could not accept a situation in which Hamas in its current configuration -- committed to the destruction of Israel -- was a part of the Palestinian Authority.

"I will not negotiate with a government that does not meet its most basic obligations -- to fight terrorism. We are prepared to assist the Palestinians and Abu Mazen (Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas) very much but they must meet their commitments," Olmert said, according to a statement released by his office.

The European Union, meanwhile, said it was prepared to work with any government -- to a point.

"We are prepared to work with any Palestinian government, if this government seeks peace, using peaceful means," said Benita Ferrero-Waldner, EU external relations commissioner.

Hamas, which boycotted the last election in 1996, capitalized on widespread dissatisfaction with what is seen as corruption within the Palestinian Authority and Fatah, and a perceived inability by the authority to manage the affairs of the Palestinians.

Fatah was formed in 1965 by longtime Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, who died in November 2004, and dominated Palestinian politics for decades as the mainstream Palestinian nationalist movement.

"Mostly, they were voting for opposition and voting against Fatah -- against corruption, against nepotism, against the failure of the peace process, and against the lack of leadership," said Mustafa Barghouti with the Palestinian National Initiative, a democratic opposition movement.

He added: "Today (Wednesday) was a great day for Palestine. This is the best democratic practice ever in the Arab world." (Watch Gaza residents talk about why election day is so important -- 2:32)

Hamas has called for the destruction of Israel and carried out numerous terrorists attacks that have killed scores of Israelis over the years. The group is listed as a terrorist group by the U.S. State Department.

Turnout near 78 percent
Election officials estimated about 77.7 percent of the eligible 1.3 million voters turned out to cast their ballots at more than 1,000 polling stations. Voting closed around 7 p.m. (noon ET) in Gaza and the West Bank, and it was extended in predominantly Arab east Jerusalem for two hours to accommodate heavy turnout. (Watch how preliminary results divide up seats -- 3:05)

Among those who joined the voters were Abbas and Mahmoud Zahar, the leader of Hamas. Militant Palestinian groups had agreed to a cease-fire during the voting, and there were no reports of major violence.

"We are embarking on a new era, and we call on the international community to help us return to the negotiating table with the Israelis, to conclude a peace agreement and implement it," Abbas said at the end of the election.

Palestinian Foreign Minister Nasser al-Kidwa told CNN: "It's a happy day. There is no doubt about that. And I think that the Palestinian people are generally happy because of this." (Read how the vote demonstrates Palestinians' will to flex their political muscle)

'Monopoly ... is finished'
At polling sites in Gaza, many voters jubilantly waved the green flag of Hamas and expressed anger at Fatah.

"Fatah hasn't done anything for us, for our children," said one Hamas voter at a polling site in Gaza.

Another said: "Fatah only helps itself. We want to see what Hamas can do for us."

Naila Ayesh and her husband, Jamal, said they are worried about the message Hamas is sending to Palestinians. Naila said Hamas told women if they didn't vote for the militant group that "at the end, God will punish you."

The couple voted for Third Way, a secular, pro-reform party. Jamal said the days when Fatah called the shots are over.

"Monopoly of the political system is finished," he said.

The results of the election were being closely monitored by the United States and European Union, both of which have threatened to cut aid if Hamas becomes part of the government.

The U.S. State Department was blunt.

"We view Hamas as a terrorist organization. We don't deal with Hamas. And under the current circumstances, I don't see that changing," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.


White House spokesman Scott McClellan was more cautious: "We'll see what the election results are. I'm not going to play a what-if scenario here."

Impact on the peace process?
There have been talks about a power-sharing coalition, in which Fatah maintains the more political posts and Hamas has lower-level ministry positions.

Asked how Palestinians could move forward with peacemaking with Israel, al-Kidwa told CNN, "Maybe this is one of the reasons why we prefer not to have it in the government at this stage."

He added: "We have to maintain making peace with Israel as a priority. Actually, this is in our interest, in the interests of the Palestinian people. We need to reach final settlement with Israelis."

Zahar, the head of Hamas, earlier in the day left open the possibility of forming a coalition with Fatah, as well as the possibility of future negotiations with Israel, under certain conditions. (Watch Hamas attempt to redefine its image -- 2:51)

Zahar said his goals include reconstruction of areas he said have been destroyed by years of Israeli occupation and corruption, and the rebuilding of the Palestinian infrastructure.

He said he would be open to negotiations with Israel, but only if the Israelis enter into talks with good will and respect for the rights of Palestinians.

"We are not going to meet them just for meeting," Zahar told a throng of reporters after casting his own ballot. Previously, he said, many meetings have been held but "ended with nothing."

Asked if Hamas would ever recognize Israel, Zahar replied: "Never."

On the eve of the voting, Israel's Olmert had this message for Palestinians: "Do not choose extremists who have led them from tragedy to tragedy and to misery."
 
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There was never a chance. Ignorant people hate Jews and the whole region has been allowed to be ignorant for, oh, so many reasons that there's no way to begin pointing fingers. Like the Christians, the cultures of that area (which, of course, we cannot judge to be inferior to our own) will soon have Islamic Science to use to debunk the Holocaust. It simply never happened.

Europe better take back them damned Jews.

Better yet, A_J welcomes ALL of Israel to the Bootheel; we could use some economic development...
 
Cap’n AMatrixca said:
There was never a chance. Ignorant people hate Jews and the whole region has been allowed to be ignorant for, oh, so many reasons that there's no way to begin pointing fingers. Like the Christians, the cultures of that area (which, of course, we cannot judge to be inferior to our own) will soon have Islamic Science to use to debunk the Holocaust. It simply never happened.

Europe better take back them damned Jews.

Better yet, A_J welcomes ALL of Israel to the Bootheel; we could use some economic development...



Quoting for posterity. The smell of burnt cookies is strong this morning, not that anyone's suprised at this one.
 
Cap’n AMatrixca said:
There was never a chance. Ignorant people hate Jews and the whole region has been allowed to be ignorant for, oh, so many reasons that there's no way to begin pointing fingers. Like the Christians, the cultures of that area (which, of course, we cannot judge to be inferior to our own) will soon have Islamic Science to use to debunk the Holocaust. It simply never happened.

Europe better take back them damned Jews.

Better yet, A_J welcomes ALL of Israel to the Bootheel; we could use some economic development...

I would say that there have been several chances and each time the Palestinians have chosen terrorism or war to peace.

This is by far the most serious setback and I think will eventually lead to a full blown war between Israel and the Palestinians.

Chances are Israel will now push forward with the seperation wall and unilaterally disengage from some areas of the west bank.

Oh, and I think Israel would prefer this situation to living in the bootheel. :p
 
Cap’n AMatrixca said:
Can you whittle that down a bit more next time, busybody?

:D :D :D

I could go back and bold the pertinent paragraphs for you...and relevator. :p
 
revelator said:
Quoting for posterity. The smell of burnt cookies is strong this morning, not that anyone's suprised at this one.


You haven't been paying attention to MY stand on Palestine, because as soon as they, who the hell am I kidding, "we" in the West, gave them a State, Israel was toast...

Isreal simply should have been allowed to whatever they needed to do as soon as the tactic became terror instead of taking Ghandi's path as a true Muslim Society would have done.
 
zipman said:
I could go back and bold the pertinent paragraphs for you...and relevator. :p


I already read three articles on the subject for a variety of viewpoints then I came here for the conspiracy aspect of it...
 
That makes Judaism as a whbole smarter than A_J, but I'm tellin' you, there's money to be made here and swamp is easier to drain than it's converse in the desert! Diaspora doesn't have to be that bad! There's always Florida...
 
zipman said:
1-I would say that there have been several chances and each time the Palestinians have chosen terrorism or war to peace.

2-This is by far the most serious setback and I think will eventually lead to a full blown war between Israel and the Palestinians.

Chances are Israel will now push forward with the seperation wall and unilaterally disengage from some areas of the west bank.

Oh, and I think Israel would prefer this situation to living in the bootheel. :p
1-Havent I been saying that all the time? have YOU not been saying the Palis are a "peace" partner? I never saw a DIFFEERENCE between the PA and Hamas, one was IN your face the other PRETENDED to hide it

2- There hasnt been a war going on?

Dont worry, give it a week or three, the US and EU will be down Israel's throat to negotiate
 
It will be interesting in that the US now has to totally disengage themselves from the peace process as well or be totally hypocritical in it's approach to dealing with terrorism.
 
for you cretins

a good read


Why the Hamas Victory is a Good Thing ..... by Steven Plaut

1. Perhaps the best indication of the extent to which the world has been
Orwellized is observing the toady news coverage of the Palestinian
"election", including in the Israeli media, themselves largely the
occupied territories of the Far Left.

For months the media were all in suspense over whether the victors in the
"election" would be the Hamas terrorists or the PLO terrorists. As it
turned out, the Hamas evidently "won" the "election" by a slim majority
(http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/674336.html )

The first part of the absurdity is the message being daily inculcated by
the Israeli political elite that there is any significant difference
between the PLO and the Hamas. There is not. Both are equally
dedicated to unlimited terror and violence, to genocide and the
eradication of Israel in any form and in any borders. Both have conducted
suicide bombings and in fact, if I am not mistaken, the PLO's terror
brigades conducted MORE than the Hamas did over the past two years. The
Kassam rockets are at least as much the initiative of the PLO as they are
that of the Hamas. The PLO proliferates anti-Semitic propaganda as much
as the Hamas and is as allied with teh Hezbollah and Syria and bin Laden.

But the Israeli establishment has been repeating the empty mantra for so
many years that "We have a peace partner in the PLO," that they managed to
fabricate artificial suspense over the Palestinian "election". If the PLO
were to win, then "Palestine" would be ruled by moderates, people with
whom Israel could strike a deal, do business, pragmatists. Nice nazis.
Israel has been awash in speeches by politicians and mindless bumper
stickers proclaiming "We have a Peace Partner."

Now, this may strike you as bizarre, but I have been arguing that the best
thing that could happen in the PLO "election" would be a strong Hamas
victory.

Let me explain.

A strong Hamas victory is the only thing that stands a chance of forcing
Israelis to open their eyes and wake up. As long as the PLO is in charge,
the gigantic game of make-pretend continues. When the Hamas is marching
about with costumes of suicide bombers and with its swastikas and other
paraphernalia, then there can be no delusions about the nazification of
the Palestinians. It is not that the Palestinians would really be any
LESS nazified with the PLO in charge. It is just that the Abu-Mazen reps
at the Potemkin negotiations and the make-pretend respectability of the
PLO hoodlum chiefs allow the politicians and the media to continue to
pretend that there is a peace process.

The Hamas victory, and I wish it had been stronger, puts the lie to the
game of make pretend. No longer can any intelligent Israeli pretend that
there is any way to deal with the Palestinians other than war. The only
way to stop the Kassams and suicide bombers is R&D = Re-Occupation and
Denazification. And with the Hamas in charge, everyone in Israel is
forced to acknowledge this.

Well, almost everyone. Haaretz and the Far Left have actually been
preparing the Israeli public for a Hamas victory in recent months, and
they are spreading the new epistle: "We can do business with the Hamas."
Leftist after leftist proclaims that the solution is to negotiate with the
Hamas. After all, the Hamas is as "genuine" and "representative" of
Palestinians as the PLO and it even wins "elections". Some Hamas
officials are encouraging the trend of self-annihilation in Israel by
putting out duplicitous statements about how the Hamas acknowledges that
Israel exists (as an empirical reality that needs to be corrected, that
is). Statements that recall Arafat's duplicitous words.

So get ready for new calls to enter into negotiations with the Hamas. We
can try to persuade them to have a salad bar on the cattle cars taking
Israeli Jews to concentration camps, and perhaps institute recycling and
free tuition at the concentration camps Hamas is seeking to build.
Israeli professors will soon be wearing their Hamas lapel pins. Hamas
poetry will soon be taught to Israeli school children. Israeli schools
will be screening films celebrating the heroism of Palestinian suicide
bombers (like the University of Haifa screened this week).

And Second Shoah Now will be the fastest growing movement in Israeli
society, holding mass demonstrations for peace in Rabin Square.


2. Pete McCloskey's ties with neonazi Holocaust Deniers:
http://newsbusters.org/node/3739

3. George Costanza Actor (Jewish Jason Alexander) for Terrorists:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21044


4. What happens when a fly falls into a cup of coffee ?


1. Englishman: Throws his cup away and walks away.
2. Frenchman: Takes the insect out and drinks the coffee.
3. Chinese: Eats the insect and throws the coffee away.
4. Japanese: Drinks the coffee with the insect, since it is a free bonus.
5. American Leftist Professor: Deconstructs the narrative of the fly while
protesting against its victimhood at the hands of the Amerikan Empire.
6. Israeli: Sells the coffee to the Frenchman and the insect to the
Chinese, and gets himself a new cup of coffee.
7. Palestinian: Accuses the Israeli of throwing the insect into his
coffee. Gets the UN and the EU to condemn the Jews for the situation.
Takes a loan from EC to buy another cup of coffee and uses the rest of the
proceeds to finance suicide bombings.
8. Canadian Liberal: Races for the American border to escape the new
Conservative Administration in Canada and there buys a latte while
defending the animal rights of all insects.
 
Bush brought Democracy to the Middle East

He just didn't guess it could be even messier there than inside the Beltway.

Look, the "road map" wasn't going anywhere anyhow. Even the name smacked of frustration—what's a map anyway if not merely a piece of paper?

I'm keeping optomistic. Remember, only Nixon—the arch anti-Communist—could go to Red China; Sharon—the Warrior—could propose and successfully pull out of Gaza unilaterally. Hammas ran on strictly "domestic" issues. I don't see the peace process moving forward, but I don't expect to see an outright war, either.
 
zipman said:
It will be interesting in that the US now has to totally disengage themselves from the peace process as well or be totally hypocritical in it's approach to dealing with terrorism.
they will PARSE and NUANCE

they wont negotiate with the "armed wing" but rather the "political wing" the way they did with the PA

The PA killed as many Jews if not more then Hamas and IJ, but the US pretended not to notice, cause the PA wore suits!
 
busybody said:
1-Havent I been saying that all the time? have YOU not been saying the Palis are a "peace" partner? I never saw a DIFFEERENCE between the PA and Hamas, one was IN your face the other PRETENDED to hide it

2- There hasnt been a war going on?

Dont worry, give it a week or three, the US and EU will be down Israel's throat to negotiate

Abbas did seem quite interested in peace, as did several members of his cabinet, like PM Qorie.

Hamas is a totally different story as you, of all people should know.

Actually, no there hasn't been a war going on. If there was, the Palestinians would have been killed or driven out long ago.
 
The crux of the long C n P is this

Till now Everyone pretended there was a "peace partner" when in fact there was not

Now the pretense is over

The only way to real and lasting peace is what I have said all along, and what Pvt Matt says as well


A war to the finish, one side or the other must give up and admit defeat and habe unconditional surrender

Unltil the pain is too much for one side, a war of attrittion will continue

All funding must be cut off to all of PA!
 
zipman said:
Abbas did seem quite interested in peace, as did several members of his cabinet, like PM Qorie.

Hamas is a totally different story as you, of all people should know.

Actually, no there hasn't been a war going on. If there was, the Palestinians would have been killed or driven out long ago.
I am SHOCKED at you ZIP,

You are MAKING SENSE

I agree, Abbas really did seem to want peace. I dont really believe he was in a position to do anything!

And there was a ONE SIDED war going on. Isreal has never been permitted to have a full scale war against its enemies
 
kotori said:
He just didn't guess it could be even messier there than inside the Beltway.

Look, the "road map" wasn't going anywhere anyhow. Even the name smacked of frustration—what's a map anyway if not merely a piece of paper?

I'm keeping optomistic. Remember, only Nixon—the arch anti-Communist—could go to Red China; Sharon—the Warrior—could propose and successfully pull out of Gaza unilaterally. Hammas ran on strictly "domestic" issues. I don't see the peace process moving forward, but I don't expect to see an outright war, either.

What did I say about the fingers?

This is a process EVERY American President has been involved in for as long as I can remember and what I remember encompases over 40 years at this point. I remember when Kennedy was shot...

So, because of your lack of tact, I get to point out, Slick was attempting to do the same damned thing in a last-ditch attempt to cement his legacy.
 
kotori said:
He just didn't guess it could be even messier there than inside the Beltway.

Look, the "road map" wasn't going anywhere anyhow. Even the name smacked of frustration—what's a map anyway if not merely a piece of paper?

I'm keeping optomistic. Remember, only Nixon—the arch anti-Communist—could go to Red China; Sharon—the Warrior—could propose and successfully pull out of Gaza unilaterally. Hammas ran on strictly "domestic" issues. I don't see the peace process moving forward, but I don't expect to see an outright war, either.

The war may not begin immediately but I think it is inevitable within a few years. If the early predictions are correct and hamas wins the majority, Israel now has no option but to forge ahead with the seperation wall. The palestinians will continue to attack and eventually, after Israel totally disengages from the west bank (minus some large settlements) they will respond to the palestinians like any country who is being attacked by a neighboring country, with war.
 
zipman said:
The war may not begin immediately but I think it is inevitable within a few years. If the early predictions are correct and hamas wins the majority, Israel now has no option but to forge ahead with the seperation wall. The palestinians will continue to attack and eventually, after Israel totally disengages from the west bank (minus some large settlements) they will respond to the palestinians like any country who is being attacked by a neighboring country, with war.


Who are YOU and what have you done to my friend, ZIPMAN!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Did you get sun stroke on your vacation?
 
busybody said:
they will PARSE and NUANCE

they wont negotiate with the "armed wing" but rather the "political wing" the way they did with the PA

The PA killed as many Jews if not more then Hamas and IJ, but the US pretended not to notice, cause the PA wore suits!

No, they can't negotiate with the politicall wing at all. It is an entirely new ball game now. The difference between the IRA and Hamas is that the IRA never controlled the government of Ireland. That is a key difference.

Bush and co. can't tell Israel to make peace with hamas or the entire War on Terror will be seen as a farce.

Btw, I thought only democrats did the "Parse and Nuance" thing, not the president. :p
 
busybody, you will never overcome the core Liberal notion that all cultures are equal and valid and should be treated as such...

To them, it is wrong to say that Hamas and Al Qaeda are not our equals, our viewpoint, our culture, our progress is not more right than theirs.

Now, you can claim superiority over Christianity; that's not hypocrisy since Christianity is just religious, superstitious, nonsence, and hence not a valid basis to found a culture upon.

I think I'm starting to get a handle on Kant!
 
zipman said:
.

Bush and co. can't tell Israel to make peace with hamas or the entire War on Terror will be seen as a farce.

Btw, I thought only democrats did the "Parse and Nuance" thing, not the president. :p


When Bushco went after SH with guided bombs and after OBL with UAV's

and told Israel NOT to touch Arafat in his compound..........THAT WAS A FARCE

Hamas is smart enough to paly around with its charter, as was the PA, and change a word or two

The US will negotiate, after a decent time frame
 
busybody said:
Who are YOU and what have you done to my friend, ZIPMAN!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Did you get sun stroke on your vacation?

My positions haven't changed at all. You are finally listening to what I am saying as opposed to yelling at me that I support hitler.

While Abbas was in office there was a chance for peace. I welcomed that chance. Now that hamas has won, it is totally different as they are sworn to destroy Israel. You absolutely can't make peace with someone sworn to destroy you.

While the early comments out of Europe are somewhat predictable, I think we will soon see a total change in the way that the world views this conflict and popular opinion which switch back to the Israeli position.
 
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