Safewording

[Lizzie_Borden]

For those that think using a safeword would cause the PYL to be disappointed, would they not be more disappointed if you did not use it and damage was done?

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I've been in this situation a couple of times. I don't have a safeword and I'm glad for it, because one of my core needs is to be broken down. I've yet to experience anything physical that would take me over the edge, but psychologically I've been well past my boundaries more than once or twice. It has taken us time to bounce back and for me to learn to trust again, but I feel like it only makes my trust in him stronger. He'll stand by me even when I'm a mess and he'll allow me and us to take the time necessary to fix things. And in our case it time that heals, no big conversations or anything. If I feel like sleeping on the couch rather than next to him for some time, then fine - I'll sleep on the couch. We both know that things will eventually go back to being normal.

I have this streak of emotional hard core masochism that sometimes scares the shit out of me. But what can I say, it's a pretty deeply rooted need that I have and I've come a long way in accepting it. I really appreciate our relationship, because it allows me to feel really bad and even hate him, too.

Could the couple you described be into something similar? I don't really understand what's the point of having a safeword if there's absolutely that would make one use it, and bragging about it sounds childish. Someone here once mentioned that they get punished for safewording, too. For me that is a foreign concept as well and IMO in a way negates the whole idea of having one.

This strikes a note in me somewhere, touching on some of my deeper fears.

I think I could rather easily be like this, if I were in an in-person 24/7 relationship. And it scares me, but I know the impulses are there.

Being that I'm not, I can't allow myself to be taken to those places, because alone, I would not recover. It's given me plenty to think about again, though.

 

[ownedsubgal]

For those that think using a safeword would cause the PYL to be disappointed, would they not be more disappointed if you did not use it and damage was done?

if they were a Dominant who really and truly wanted their submissive to be able to safeword, then very possibly yes. but as that is the complete opposite of my Master, i really cannot imagine that. also it would still be extremely uncomfortable to be placed in the position of having to control...especially one's own Dominant! that is how it would feel for me, and i would have a difficult time even judging just when the "right" time to safeword would be. is it when i'm in a lot of pain? when i'm crying because of emotional pain? when something feels broken? when i feel depressed?? the stress of having to deal with that kind of major decision making, in the midst of being subjected to a trying time in itself, would just be far too much for me to handle.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

if they were a Dominant who really and truly wanted their submissive to be able to safeword, then very possibly yes. but as that is the complete opposite of my Master, i really cannot imagine that. also it would still be extremely uncomfortable to be placed in the position of having to control...especially one's own Dominant! that is how it would feel for me, and i would have a difficult time even judging just when the "right" time to safeword would be. is it when i'm in a lot of pain? when i'm crying because of emotional pain? when something feels broken? when i feel depressed?? the stress of having to deal with that kind of major decision making, in the midst of being subjected to a trying time in itself, would just be far too much for me to handle.

*nodsnods* I can see how that would be for you.

The way I see it, is that he expects me to take care of what's his, just as much as he does. Just like I'd tell him if I had a toothache, or an upset stomach, or some other illness, or my anxiety was ramping up again, then I'm also expected to tell him if I'm experiencing real distress. Not that it's happened very often, maybe once or twice. But, I think if I failed him on that, he'd be pissed.

 

[seela]

*snip*
also like seela, my strong emotional needs to be degraded and broken down could not possibly be met if he did not occasionally send me to a very, very bad place. but he has the will, desire and knowledge necessary to build me back up again.

i can also say that if i were in a completely different sort of relationship where a safeword was permitted, i would never be able to use one. it's not just pride (although that would play a small factor), it would be, as others have mentioned, absolute horror at the idea of disappointing the person i am supposed to serve. i could not live with that disappointment, even if they could.

If I had a safeword, I wouldn't be able to get to the dark place. I'd safeword, I'd chicken out rather than take the ride, even if I know that I need it. Because for me the experiences are scary and frightening, they really are. I'm not sure I could handle the ride, if I had a way out. And again, if I had a safeword, I think I'd assume I'm to use it it rather than let something like that happen.

He's not generally interested in breaking bones or pinching nerves, though, so even if I don't have a safeword, I let him know if something's drastically wrong and he either fixes it or doesn't.

This strikes a note in me somewhere, touching on some of my deeper fears.

I think I could rather easily be like this, if I were in an in-person 24/7 relationship. And it scares me, but I know the impulses are there.

Being that I'm not, I can't allow myself to be taken to those places, because alone, I would not recover. It's given me plenty to think about again, though.

Admitting that I need something like this really scares me, too. Kinda makes me wonder about the blurred lines of consent and all that sometimes.

We live together for about half of the year, adding to that the weekends that we spend together. The rest of the time we're LDR and that really makes this difficult sometimes. Mostly the heavier stuff happens when we're together 24/7 for longer periods of time, but not always. I'm not very good at "fixing" myself all alone, but it has happened, too, and it's a completely different experience.

 

[the captians wench]

For those that think using a safeword would cause the PYL to be disappointed, would they not be more disappointed if you did not use it and damage was done?

For me, in most cases, we haven't formally discussed a safeword, so the idea that I even have one is kind of a fuzzy area.

I have used a safeword before, yellow twice, red once. All three times, the person inflicting the pain was pushing for my safeword, they wanted to see how far I would push myself. They used it as a game, a test to see just how far I would push myself to please them. I had deep bruses for 3 weeks. That was the first of many signs that this person was not right for me.

There is another type of safeword that I use, that I've talked about here before. "Juice". It's for when my sugar gets funky and I need to get a booster. It's something I use in even vanilla settings at times so I don't consider it a safeword of sorts.

When in play, in a session that hasn't been declaired a "no limit" session, the thing that goes thru my mind is our no limits sessions. I know how much I can take then, when my mind has been prepped for it, I know how much he enjoys pushing me beyond my limits, so I push to meet those. I'll push myself past the point where I think I've had all I can take, and focas only on the fact that he's enjoying how much this hurts. If it didn't hurt, if I didn't cry, if all I got out of this was pleasure, he wouldn't enjoy it as much, and neither would I.

To date, with one exception, every one I have played with has recognized this in me and stops just before I embrace disapointment and call a stop to things. Even this brings up that insecurity in me, that feeling like I've disapointed because they had to stop. This has also been recognized by every one (except the one) and they have done something (even as little as commenting positively on my pain threshold) to reasure me that they enjoyed me.

I know there would come a point where I would use a safeword. I would push, then I woudl fight it, but it would eventually come out before I was seriously hurt. Most of my later play partners, and Jounar, prefer a system where they check in with me, ask me how I feel, rather than wait for me to safeword.

And maybe if we had formally discussed, and I was instructed to use my safeword when needed I would feel different. But I've only had that conversation with one person (the exception mentioned every where else here) and he used it in a way I didn't expect.

 

[wicked woman]

For those that think using a safeword would cause the PYL to be disappointed, would they not be more disappointed if you did not use it and damage was done?

Yes of course he would. In fact, damage wouldn't even have to be done. Let me make it clear, the need not to disappoint comes from within me. He's done nothing to even suggest he would be disappointed, in fact he's done the opposite by asking me to make sure I would use my safeword when I felt it was needed. That assurance gives him comfort. It's not a rational thought. I would use it...just I push myself to take more. See captains wench's thoughts below.

I'll push myself past the point where I think I've had all I can take, and focas only on the fact that he's enjoying how much this hurts. If it didn't hurt, if I didn't cry, if all I got out of this was pleasure, he wouldn't enjoy it as much...

<snip>

I know there would come a point where I would use a safeword. I would push, then I woudl fight it, but it would eventually come out before I was seriously hurt.

<snip>

This ...

 

[Dearelliot]

I want her to ignore my safeword...for a while..I want to be afraid of her, to feel totally under her control, that she may do things that I do not want her to do...She has the power, and I will reach a point where I will do anything she wants me to do...no not just do it, but beg her to let me do it..There was a scene in a book, A woman was taken to a bench every day and whipped hard...beyond anything she could stand..and then one day she begged to perform any act no matter how humiliating or degrading, any act if he would please not whip her...and she would do it well with enthusiasm, and for as long as he wished, in front of others, with others with anyone else..however he wanted her to...She would even suggest things the most degerading things ..if only...then she was truly his sex slave..

 

[SlaveNano]

I don’t use a safe word and would not want one. I think the risk is that a sub plays to the safe word and constrains the direction a session can go in. For me it is about surrendering control to somebody and total trust in them. A skilled mistress is a better judge of what a slave is capable of than the slave himself.

It may seem perverse to some people but I actually think safe words can be quite dangerous. If a slave sets not using it as a form of challenge and if a mistress pushes on with an activity waiting to hear a safe word rather than using her own judgement and reading the reactions of her slave then this could be dangerous. It’s better for a mistress or master to use their own skill and judgement in deciding how far their slave can go than rely on a safe word.

I’m quite happy to trust to my mistress and because of that I know that I have been taken to some wonderful places and some extreme experiences that I might never have had if I’d safe worded.

 

[sb2009]

Sometimes I push myself to not say "OK stop!" (no safeword, we just use English) but I beleive that I am a total wimp and couldn't imagine that I would push myself far enough to cause any damage. But he also knows me pretty well and we have that whole thing going on. With a new partner, I'd probably do the green, yellow, red thing. Even just for stuff like "arm falling asleep" or "old lady knee getting cramped."

 

[Earthgoddess]

safety

I am a rape survivor and without a safe word I can not play, my wounded child gets in the way. With a safe word I am choosing to submit, not suffering abuse. I have not yet used the safe word, despite being taken some very dark places, but it is my escape hatch and also prevents me from suffering flashbacks due to triggers during the play. I look at it like the movie Inception, the safeword is my talisman, and He expects me to use it if I need to as he is not psychic and would not necessarily see my responses as a trigger/anxiety response versus an intense submission. His expectations and my own protection are layered upon each other, and for us that works. I have been with other Doms who expected me to walk through that terrror to "prove" myself. Ummm no...my six weeks of daily rape and sodomy at 14 years old is not a place I need to spend time, and I have a right to boundaries and limits.
So in my case I take care of His possession, and if I allow myself to be broken, well then he can't play can He?

 

[mardin]

Just my POV

I do not understand what the stigma is with using your safeword.

If you and your PYT have discussed what needs to happen when you say it then there is no "chickening out"
IMO the scene should stop and the PYT should be focus on helping you find the issue that caused it. It could be a physical issue that was not planned for or a mental hole you have fallen in to.

I think is is an awesome bonding experience when the a pyt uses it and is asking for the PYT to come to their aid and fix the issue.

 

[Ravenwind]

Personally, I like "Ooh! Charlie horse, hold on..." as a safeword.

Seriously, though, my Husband and I don't use them. We don't need to... we already know each other's absolute boundaries, and simply don't cross them. We've learned, over the years, when "stop" means "hold on, this really sucks", and when "stop" means "more please!!!"... and sometimes, even "Charlie horse, hold on" doesn't mean "time to quit", but rather, "keep going, I'll catch up in a second".

Uncontrollable laughter, though, yeah, that's the epitome of safewords.

 

[Bandit58]

I'd try my best not to turn the safeword into a competition, but knowing me... I probably would.
Whats a good safeword/system anyways?

We use the "traffic light" system:

Green - all ok, carry on (if Sir asks how I am doing)
Yellow - This is getting intense (physically OR mentally) I would like to ease off a bit
Red - STOP NOW

We have been together almost 7 years. Safewords are still in place and used if needed but haven't been for ages. Sir will not play without one even though He can read me pretty well by now.

Just a comment, something I've thought of before - do Dominants ever have a safe word? Maybe for the situation (as an example) of a sub wanting them to beat to the point of drawing blood, and the Dom isn't prepared to go that far??

 

[switchbitch]

sometimes safe words just don't work at all for some people. Although I have a safe word I have never been able to use it. I am very much into extremes and when I am playing, by the time I get to a point where I probably should safeword, I am so far into the experience that I am incapable of using the safe word, I just want more. To ensure I don't push things too far I always make sure that I am either playing with someone who is aware of my lack of limits and is capable of making a sensible judgement call or making sure that someone else is there who can be my living safe word.

and in some cases it is better if I use both those options. Particularly if I am playing with an extremely sadistic Dom as is my preference. An incredibly masochistic submissive such as myself (in my submissive mode) can push a dom further than they would normally go so a third less involved player can be the voice of sanity that keeps us safe.

 

[seela]

Just a comment, something I've thought of before - do Dominants ever have a safe word? Maybe for the situation (as an example) of a sub wanting them to beat to the point of drawing blood, and the Dom isn't prepared to go that far??

Can't the doms just decide they won't do that? They're the ones in control, so I wouldn't think they have to do things they don't feel comfortable about.

We don't have a safeword, but sometimes, if we're for example shopping together or doing something else, that's more "my" activity than his, and he's had enough of it, he does jokingly say safeword to let me know that it's time to go home.

 

[switchbitch]

Can't the doms just decide they won't do that? They're the ones in control, so I wouldn't think they have to do things they don't feel comfortable about.

We don't have a safeword, but sometimes, if we're for example shopping together or doing something else, that's more "my" activity than his, and he's had enough of it, he does jokingly say safeword to let me know that it's time to go home.

Doms have limits that can be pushed too you know.

 

[seela]

Doms have limits that can be pushed too you know.

I know and I get that, but I don't see why a safe word would be needed for those occasions, seeing as they're in charge of the whole thing.

 

[SmilingLez]

BUMP

 

[OddLove]

The way I feel about that is this,

Holding an absolute mindset of 'I will NEVER use a safe word' is like sitting in the passenger seat while your partners driving down a curvy highway at night and refusing to yelling stop when you see a deer in the road because you either don't care if you both crash, or you can't fathom your partner not seeing it because they're such a good driver.

 

[average_red]

having no real experience outside of combat and intelligence training I will offer my opinion anyway before asking a strange question:

1) you only need a safe word if you are role playing if "no, stop" means "stop" plain English works. If "no, stop" means "do it harder" English stopped working and you need a safe word.

2) the goal for both parties is to never have the word used. I was professionally tortured by trained interrogators, and I have never met anyone I couldn't break. breaking people isn't a challenge, not breaking them and keeping on the desirable side of the line sounds like fun.

3) based off of 1&2 this is ultimately a fantasy play, part of the fantasy particularly for the masochist is the fantasy that they can take anything, and for the sub that their master knows them so well they won't be broken.

strange question: how acceptable is it for the dom to use the safe word to check in on the sub?

 

[Dombull617]

We've met a few new people recently and while hanging out last weekend, I had a conversation with one of the subs that has kept me thinking most of the week. It was about safewording. She asked me mine, whether I've used it, so on. Yes we have one, it is the stop light color system, and no I haven't used it to date. She bragged about how they have one but she's never used hers and never would no matter what was going on. She told me about a few scenes that got so intense she was really pushed over and past the edge, but she took pride in not safewording even though it took her and her Dom a bit of time to get past it. They are very nice people, fun to hang out with, and if that is what has worked so far for her and her PYL, great.

While I've never used mine, I would if pushed past that point. We had to set one because we had an infamous "ow, fuck, ow!" situation and he stopped, then when discussing later he laughed when I told him "well yeah I said 'ow' but it was just 'ow' not 'ow stop.'"

I already know B's opinions on this (we talked on the way home) and how I'll keep on keeping on, but I'm curious, how popular is this line of thinking? Aren't safewords given to avoid getting pushed so far past a personal edge that it takes time for a PYL and pyl to reestablish that trust again? Do some couples treat it like a dare, "it's here but don't use it or you're a wuss" kind of thing? Is a safeword a tool? A dare? A point of pride to never go to?

For future reference, HARDER is not a good safe word......