Sad News. Teen Murdered.

[Pure]

http://www.thestar.com/article/284824

[[The Toronto Star]]

Muslim teen was abused, friends say

Teen died of strangulation

MICHELE HENRY
BOB MITCHELL
STAFF REPORTERS

December 12, 2007

She wanted to be like any other teenage girl.

Aqsa Parvez, 16, who died Monday night after being attacked in her Mississauga home, wanted to hang out with friends instead of obeying her 5 p.m. curfew. She wanted to listen to rap, hip hop and R & B, which her parents didn't permit.

Vivacious and outgoing, Parvez wanted to dress like a Western woman in tight-fitting clothes and show off her long, dark hair by removing her hijab.

She wanted to be "free" and independent of her family's devout Muslim beliefs
.
But that was a problem.

This culture clash, her friends said yesterday, led to abuse. While she didn't often come to school with bruises, she said she had been hit on the arms and across the face, her friends said, and that her parents kept her under strict guard
.
"She told me many times that her dad had threatened her," her friend, Dominiqua Holmes-Thompson, 16, said yesterday. "She was serious."

Muhammad Parvez, 57, is to appear in a Brampton court today, accused of killing his daughter, the youngest of eight children. Peel homicide detectives haven't revealed whether the driver for the Blue & White Taxi company would be charged with first- or second-degree murder.

 

[cantdog]

All authority can be corrupt, and hardly any is legitimate. May he be charged. The man might be a father, but he does not own anyone. We abolished slavery here.

 

[rgraham666]

Sigh. I do wish people there are different forms of the word 'my'. There's a difference between 'my car' and 'my daughter'.

The former I can bludgeon with a sledgehammer until nothing is left but a wreck. It would be stupid but it wouldn't be evil.

Using a sledgehammer on the latter is evil.

I hope that stupid bastard is thrown into a dungeon so deep we'll have to lower his food to him in a pressurized container.

 

[sutherngent985]

While I am far from an expert in middle eastern society or islam, this sounds like an honor killing to me. Seems like the asshole forgot hes not in Gaza (or anywher in that area) anymore but the US where murder is murder and men dont own their wives and daughters. I hope the asshole gets thrown in a hole with a 7 ft 350 lb guy who will show him what people here think of things like him.

 

[Lisa Denton]

All authority can be corrupt, and hardly any is legitimate. May he be charged. The man might be a father, but he does not own anyone. We abolished slavery here.

Well put, cant.

 

[playwithlezli]

While I am far from an expert in middle eastern society or islam, this sounds like an honor killing to me. Seems like the asshole forgot hes not in Gaza (or anywher in that area) anymore but the US where murder is murder and men dont own their wives and daughters. I hope the asshole gets thrown in a hole with a 7 ft 350 lb guy who will show him what people here think of things like him.

Actually he was of Pakastani origin, and yes, it does sound like an honour killing, if that isn't too big an oxymoron. The family is living in Canada.

Here is a link to a CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) story.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/12/11/teen-attacked.html?ref=rss

 

[rgraham666]

Actually he was of Pakastani origin, and yes, it does sound like an honour killing, if that isn't too big an oxymoron. The family is living in Canada.

Here is a link to a CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) story.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/12/11/teen-attacked.html?ref=rss

In my opinion 'honour killings' are really 'power killings'.

The daughter was escaping his power and so he killed her rather than lose his hold over her.

 

[Weird Harold]

She wanted to be "free" and independent of her family's devout Muslim beliefs

Would this case be any less horrible if this line read "She wanted to be "free" and independent of her family's strict Fundamentalist Christian beliefs?"

Are we outraged because a young girl was killed for dying her father's authority or are we outraged because muslims are barbaric mysoginists?

 

[amicus]

Pure purposely omitted the fact that this incident occurred Canada where they are considering adopting Sharia Law in some Provinces.

When you reject the concept of human individual rights, as quasi socialist Canada has, does it come as any surprise the human individual life is not honored, respected, cherish and protected?

When the chickens come home to roost they leave messy droppings.

Amicus....(take that!)

 

[Just-Legal]

Would this case be any less horrible if this line read "She wanted to be "free" and independent of her family's strict Fundamentalist Christian beliefs?"

In my eyes, no. I don't believe ANY religion should be forced on ANYONE by anyone, as proven by telling my strictly Catholic family to go fuck themselves (figuratively) at age 14.

Are we outraged because a young girl was killed for dying her father's authority or are we outraged because muslims are barbaric mysoginists?

The former.

 

[Guest]

Would this case be any less horrible if this line read "She wanted to be "free" and independent of her family's strict Fundamentalist Christian beliefs?"

Are we outraged because a young girl was killed for dying her father's authority or are we outraged because muslims are barbaric mysoginists?

I am outraged because she was a sweet teenager in an impossible bind. Children want to be normal. They want to fit. Her family made it impossible by moving to Canada.

I see this as no different than Baby Grace's case. A parent was not "aware" of the ways a child can behave. The child died as a result of ignorance.

May both "parents" rot in jail for it. Of course there is more to it, lots of cultural shock and difficult adjustment, but none of it is excuse in this day and age.

Multiculturalism is fine. Murder is not.

May God look after her soul.

Maharat

 

[rgraham666]

Pure purposely omitted the fact that this incident occurred Canada where they are considering adopting Sharia Law in some Provinces.

When you reject the concept of human individual rights, as quasi socialist Canada has, does it come as any surprise the human individual life is not honored, respected, cherish and protected?

When the chickens come home to roost they leave messy droppings.

Amicus....(take that!)

It wasn't considered. Some very devout Muslims asked and we told them, "No!"

I do wish you'd look up some facts once in a while rather than depend on the voices in your head.

 

[amicus]

I chose the word, 'considered' carefully and while you may choose not to remember, one of those hick backwater provincial capitols over in the east, did in fact, 'consider' legislation and it was covered in news around the world.

I like it better when you have me on ignore as you never, ever, have anything to contribute, just your continual whining.

Amicus...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Would this case be any less horrible if this line read "She wanted to be "free" and independent of her family's strict Fundamentalist Christian beliefs?"

Are we outraged because a young girl was killed for dying her father's authority or are we outraged because muslims are barbaric mysoginists?

What do you think?

I've known of Christian fundamentalists who've killed their children in similar circumstances. I can't recall thinking that their religious heritage excused them.

 

[Weird Harold]

What do you think?

I've known of Christian fundamentalists who've killed their children in similar circumstances. I can't recall thinking that their religious heritage excused them.

I think that there is usually a lot less publicity/public outrage when it's fundamentalist christian citizens than there is when it's immigrant muslims. and I think that's a very sad fact.

 

[Pure]

note to weird h

greetings

Originally Posted by Pure
//She wanted to be "free" and independent of her family's devout Muslim beliefs //

Would this case be any less horrible if this line read "She wanted to be "free" and independent of her family's strict Fundamentalist Christian beliefs?"

Are we outraged because a young girl was killed for dying her father's authority or are we outraged because muslims are barbaric mysoginists?

first of all, the quote attributed to me is not correctly so. Weird H is quoting a newspaper article that i posted. his questions assume that i'm the reporter and he draws attention to the wording as if it's mine (and should be changed).

question 1: no, it would be equally horrible if a xian fundamentalist. there is, in fact, OT justification [if you take the Bible to justify] for killing a disobedient child.

question 2 part one, yes, we are outraged that the father asserted his authority to the point of death penalty.

part two are we outraged because muslims are barbaric mysoginists

no, we are outraged because SOME muslims, esp male who are fathers, are barbaric and oppressive to "their" women, i.e., wives and children.

and of course there are SOME xians, esp. males who are fathers, who oppress "their" women, as well,

and some atheists, etc.

I think that there is usually a lot less publicity/public outrage when it's fundamentalist christian citizens than there is when it's immigrant muslims. and I think that's a very sad fact.

yes, weird h, there is something to this. many of the media are esp. favorable to xianity. and look at the presidential candidates who are parading it. look at Pres. Bush's official xmas card with its Bible verse, saying quite clearly "Our family is Christian."

so the media, except for certain televangelical scandals, is tender in treating xian failings and of course does NOT mention the religion of all wife killers. you never see the headline. "Christian husband kills wife thought to be adulterous."

there is too, in the press, of late, much emphasis on immigrants' wrong doing. the undocumented ones are, by suggestion, called drug dealers and terrorists. there is a suggestion that undocumented ones are criminals, which is not technically correct, in that no CRIMINAL law is broken by being in the US without documents. (it is a citizenship and naturalization law, *which does NOT carry criminal penalties*, e.g. jail time). i suspect that on average, the undocumented ones have a LOWER rate of major crimes than the citizens at large, since that draws attention to oneself. but this hypothesis is never examined.

 

[oggbashan]

greetings...

there is too, in the press, of late, much emphasis on immigrants' wrong doing. the undocumented ones are, by suggestion, called drug dealers and terrorists. there is a suggestion that undocumented ones are criminals, which is not technically correct, in that no CRIMINAL law is broken by being in the US without documents. (it is a citizenship and naturalization law, *which does NOT carry criminal penalties*, e.g. jail time). i suspect that on average, the undocumented ones have a LOWER rate of major crimes than the citizens at large, since that draws attention to oneself. but this hypothesis is never examined.

The latest disclosure by the UK's Home Office is that possibly as many as 10,000 illegal immigrants had been granted permission to act as security guards by the Home Office who should be expelling them for being illegals. The Home Office has written to them suggesting that their licences to be security guards might be withdrawn.

It is interesting that 10,000 individuals are considered trustworthy enough to be employed in security and yet they are in the UK illegally.

We do have problems with criminal activity by immigrants but it seems that most of the crimes are committed by those who are here legally (perhaps because they outnumber the illegals). EU citizens have a right to move freely through any EU country and the criminal fraternity didn't take long to work out that a police record in one state doesn't get transmitted to another state. For decades the UK had been exporting criminals to Spain. Now we are getting other countries' criminals coming here, and if the criminals are EU citizens they can hop from country to country faster than the law can keep up.

Og

 

[playwithlezli]

Here is some conversation about this case.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_fatah/20071214.html

Interestingly enough, apparently some "women's groups" are saying that it is not a woman's issue, but a muslim issue, therefore they cannot comment.

I can comment, violence is wrong. End statement.

 

[Pure]

update and aqsa parvez slaying

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071214.wsaundersreck1214/BNStory/National/

Do the laws of God trump those of man?

DOUG SAUNDERS

December 14, 2007 at 12:20 PM EST

EDINBURGH — We may never know exactly why 16-year-old Aqsa Parvez was strangled in Mississauga this week. Her father, Muhammad, has been charged with murder, and he is, by all accounts, a very religious man, whereas his daughter didn't want to cover her head in the style favoured by Muslims in his native Pakistan.

Whether her death was a direct result of this theological schism, or of some more prosaic explosion of family rage, is now irrelevant. It has become a story about the limits of tolerance. A national debate has erupted around poor Aqsa, and it is largely a debate about the place of extreme religious belief in a liberal society.

This happens to have been the central topic of a dramatic argument that has inflamed Europe's leading thinkers for much of this year and it would be useful to ship some of its rhetoric across the Atlantic.

A lot of people have been using the words "integration" and "multiculturalism" to discuss the Parvez case. These concepts, I would argue, are somewhat beside the point. Members of the family are, in most important respects, fully integrated and fluent Canadians. And they don't seem to have been stuck in a cultural ghetto; if there really were pressures inside the father's head, they didn't come from the varied and mostly secular people around them.

What we are really concerned about here is the question of how to deal with those in our midst who are antinomians — that is, people who believe the laws of God should trump the laws of man. Ever since we first built societies out of reason and mutual respect during the Enlightenment, the presence of religious true believers has been a problem. Should renunciation of spiritual authority be a prerequisite for membership in a free society?

Antinomians can be nothing more than charming nuisances, like William Blake, whose poetry was a long manifesto of antinomianism. Or they can be Osama bin Laden.

"What to say," Voltaire asked three centuries ago, "to a man who tells you he prefers to obey God than to obey men, and who is consequently sure of entering the gates of heaven by slitting your throat?"
That quotation opened this year's debate, in January.

It was used by French philosopher Pascal Bruckner to launch a long, wild attack on Dutch-American writer Ian Buruma (his essay, and the rest of this debate, can be found on the excellent Berlin website signandsight.com).

Mr. Buruma had just published a fantastic book titled Murder In Amsterdam, in which he returns to his native Holland to explore the slaying, by a Muslim extremist, of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh.
The central figure in his book is Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Dutch activist [....]

 

[rgraham666]

To my mind, all the arguments about religion and culture in this crime are besides the point. As almost all crimes against women and children are this crime was about power.

The father had power over his daughter. It was, in his mind, granted to him by his religion and culture, but it was power that was the central theme. He, in my opinion, drew his sense of self from his power.

And when his power over his daughter began to slip he killed her rather than face that loss of power and self esteem.

The lazy, evil bastard.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Well, I understand atheists are killing Christians too. Are these religious crimes?

Blake was a subtle and ironic poet of many levels. His religion can be as easily read as an indictment against an uncaring god as it can as any sort of endorsement. His Urizen is often taken as embodying Satan himself.

 

[Pure]

further account of aqsa parvez murder.

other cases mentioned at the end


http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=169790
Aqsa's last days
Father, teenager had tried to reconcile, friends sayNatalie Alcoba, National Post Published: Saturday, December 15, 2007
The night before Aqsa Parvez died, she danced to Indian music under the loving gaze of a Muslim family she had adopted as her own.

The rebellious teenager did not see eye to eye with her parents, so she moved in with a Mississauga family, and last Sunday happily took part in a birthday celebration for the youngest of six Tahir daughters. Everyone complimented Aqsa on her outfit --a pink skirt she had borrowed from one of the sisters, Amal Tahir, and her own matching pink top. "Tell Amal to teach me a couple of steps," the mother, Lubna, recalled Aqsa asking.

"What I saw in that kid was that she was just asking for acceptance," Lubna Tahir said. "She wanted to be like a young celebrity. Want to do everything, be in everyone's eye. Want to be popular. Want to be loved one."

Police say that the next morning, on a visit back to her family's Mississauga home to pick up clothes, 16-year-old Aqsa was strangled to death by her father, 57. She will be buried today.

Friends from Aqsa's high school said the girl had been fighting with her family about her refusal to wear a hijab and other traditional Islamic clothes. They say she "wanted to dress normally," so she would take off the head scarf at school and make sure to put it back on before she went home.

The suggestion that her death was the tragic end to repeated culture clashes between a traditional Muslim family and their rebellious Westernized daughter has generated a fierce debate.

Canadian Imams have denounced the murder as un-Islamic, but underscored the importance of a hijab by saying that children who shunned it could make some parents feel like failures. Other observers say the discussion should centre around domestic violence, which affects all communities.

Muhammad Parvez, a taxi driver who immigrated from Rawalpindi, Pakistan, prior to his family making the move about seven years ago, remains in jail on a charge of murder. Police said a man called 911 on Monday morning to say he had killed his daughter.

Aqsa died in hospital several hours later. Waqas Parvez, who picked his sister up at a bus stop that morning and took her home, is charged with obstructing police. He was released on $10,000 bail yesterday.
Mr. Parvez was licensed as a sole taxi operator, which meant he owned his own cab but paid dues to a dispatch brokerage.[...]

The Tahirs describe Aqsa as a girl who embraced her faith by praying five times a day, like a good Muslim, while also trying to emulate the "gangsta" style she admired in rap videos. She knew who she wanted to be one day -- a famous fashion designer -- but struggled, like most teens, to fit in. Aqsa's three brothers and four older sisters were more reserved than she, which made her sometimes feel misunderstood.

The Tahirs say that days after she moved in with them, Mr. and Ms. Parvez came over, and both families had a two hour meeting with Aqsa.
Her mother cried. Mr. Parvez calmly implored his daughter in Punjabi to tell him why she left and what he could do to bring her home. Aqsa barely spoke, except to say that she "just wanted change," according to Ms. Tahir. Privately Aqsa told her that she wanted "to get more out of life".

Mr. Parvez appeared to be relieved that his daughter was safe, said Ms. Tahir, and not alone on the street. He was content to see Aqsa living in a household that resembled his own, said Ms. Tahir, and told her to stay as long as she needed to. Aqsa asked if she could bring items from her house back, and he said they would arrange that "together."

"That's how he left," said Ms. Tahir, an immigration and paralegal consultant who immigrated from Pakistan 10 years ago.
But Aqsa, it seemed, was still searching for independence.

A few days after that first meeting, over coffee in Tim Hortons, Aqsa told her father that she wanted to live on her own, she wanted to go to school in the mornings and work in the evenings. Mr. Parvez offered to let her take over the basement. Aqsa said she would think about it.
"She was satisfied, she was relaxed that somehow her parents understood that this is what she wanted to do, and they didn't push her to come home," said Ms. Tahir, who wanted to be an impartial third party to broker peace.
[...]
The Tahirs did not know of any dispute over Aqsa wearing a hijab and said that the older Parvez sisters did not always wear the head scarf.
Aqsa's Applewood Heights Secondary School friends said she started removing her hijab in September, which was also when she ran away from home the first time and to a women's shelter.

Amal Tahir said Aqsa still periodically wore the hijab, and sometimes other students picked on her.

"They didn't accept her as easily as they did when she changed her appearance. I told her, if someone doesn't like you for the way you are inside, the way you dress won't influence them," said Amal, who knew Aqsa through her older sister, Irim.
Aqsa sparred with her father about skipping classes, admitted Amal, but she never thought the girl feared Mr. Parvez.

In the two weeks they lived in the same house, Amal and Aqsa bonded -- and the older girl learned that Aqsa liked to call the shots.
"She was a dominant personality," Amal said. She wanted to be the centre of attention, loved posing for pictures, gossiping about boys and experimenting with her appearance. "Typical teen stuff," Ms. Tahir said.
[...]
---------
CASES FROM ACROSS THE GLOBE

- Rajinder Singh Atwal stabbed his 17-year-old daughter, Amandeep, 17 times after he discovered she was dating a boy he disapproved of. Atwal was convicted of second-degree murder in British Columbia in March, 2005. He automatically received a life sentence of 25 years in prison.

-A devout Muslim's strict religious beliefs drove him to murder his favourite daughter when he found her "secret" boyfriend in her bedroom, a jury in the U.K. heard in February, 2002, the Manchester Evening News reported. Faqir Mohammed, a father of 10 children, stabbed the 24-year-old student in the head after finding the man when he came home unexpectedly. His original target was the boyfriend, student Bilal Amin, but he escaped by jumping from the bedroom window. The father chased him, but when his daughter tried to stop him, he took hold of her and stabbed her repeatedly, reports stated. "According to the law it was not right, but according to religion it was right," he told detectives.

-Hina Saleem, 21, was found buried in the backyard of her family's home in Italy. Four men, including her father and uncle, were accused of premeditated murder and hiding the body, lawyer Carlo Bonardi was quoted as saying in an Associated Press story in August, 2006.
Ms. Saleem's mother, Bushra Begun Saleem, told AP her daughter was disobedient -- often out late without saying where she was or when she was coming home. She also said she did not forgive her husband for his alleged participation in the killing.
===


[[see:
http://www2.hs.fi/english/archive/news.asp?id=20020312IE14]]


-A Kurdish immigrant in Sweden, who killed his daughter because he did not like her modern way of life, pleaded guilty to the murder in March, 2002. Rahmi Sahindal said he had not planned the killing but lost his temper when he came across his daughter, Fadime, while she was paying a secret visit to her mother and sisters in January. He gunned her down at point-blank range before their eyes. Fadime, 26, had fled the family home to escape from her father and other male relatives who did not want her to mix freely in Swedish society. Sahindal was trying to arrange a marriage for her in Turkey and threatened her when he found out she had been dating a Swedish man.
Close

 

[dr_mabeuse]

So are these people mad because they're religious, or are they religious because they're mad? What's the point here?

 

[cantdog]

I'm sure we'd have to take that on a case-by-case basis, and some news writer is never going to give us enough factual data to draw a reliable conclusion. At least, that's my take on your question, Zoot.

 

[Pure]

maybe in the history of every religion is a crazy period, one that's somewhat reflective of the surrounding craziness.

a father's right have a disobedient child executed is in the Torah, Deut 21:18-21, which means that the Xian OT includes it. it's in the laws of ancient Rome and Greece, too, i believe. as the commonplace observation goes, some muslim communities/villages are essentially in a different time period, say 400 years ago.

it's also worth pointing out, as Weird H said, above: killings of children, often young ones, sometimes teens, by parents is not exactly rare. it's just that the press reports things a bit differently. in the case of Susan Smith, who murdered her children, the article below says she is "white," but does not mention that she is xian (most likely). e.g., "Christian woman charged with murder."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n3_v87/ai_15969316

White woman who claimed black man kidnapped her children charged with their murder - ---- Susan Smith

Jet, Nov 21, 1994

The South Carolina woman who told authorities that a Black man stole her car with her children inside during a carjacking, recently was charged with murdering the children.