Rumsfeld on the ropes

thebullet

Rebel without applause
Joined
Feb 25, 2003
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The mainstream press is finally levelling criticism at the Bush administration. This is an article from the New York Times suggesting that Donald Rumsfeld is a total fuck-up. Now if they would only extropolate the concept a few steps higher.


The Rumsfeld Stain
By Bob Herbert
The New York Times

Monday 23 May 2005

How does Donald Rumsfeld survive as defense secretary?

Much of what has happened to the military on his watch has been catastrophic. In Iraq, more than 1,600 American troops have died and many thousands have been maimed in a war that Mr. Rumsfeld mishandled from the beginning and still has no idea how to win. The generals are telling us now that the U.S. is likely to be bogged down in Iraq for years, and there are whispers circulating about the possibility of "defeat."

Potential recruits are staying away from the armed forces in droves. Most Americans want no part of the administration's hapless venture in Iraq. A woman in Connecticut with two college-age sons said to me recently: "My boys should die in Baghdad? For what?"

Parents from coast to coast are going out of their way to dissuade their children from joining the military. Recruiters, desperate and in many cases emotionally distraught after repeatedly missing their monthly goals, began abandoning admission standards and signing up individuals who were physically, mentally or morally unfit for service.

The abuses became so widespread that the Army suspended recruiting on Friday so recruiters could spend the day being retrained in the legal and ethical standards they are supposed to maintain. The Army is going through its toughest year for recruiting since the nation went to an all-volunteer military in 1973.

The military spent decades rebuilding its reputation and regaining the respect of the vast majority of the American people after the debacle in Vietnam. Under Mr. Rumsfeld, that hard-won achievement is being reversed. He invaded Iraq with too few troops, and too many of them were poorly trained and inadequately equipped. The stories about American troops dying on the battlefield because of a lack of protective armor have now been widely told.

The insurgency in Iraq appeared to take Mr. Rumsfeld completely by surprise. He expected to win the war in a walk. Or, perhaps, a strut.

Now the military is in a fix. Many of the troops have served multiple tours in Iraq and are weary. The insurgency remains strong, and the Iraq military has proved to be a disappointing ally.

A senior American officer, quoted last week in The Times, said that while he still believed the effort in Iraq would succeed, it could take "many years."

As if all this were not enough, there is also the grotesque and deeply shameful issue that will always be a part of Mr. Rumsfeld's legacy - the manner in which American troops have treated prisoners under their control in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. There is no longer any doubt that large numbers
of troops responsible for guarding and interrogating detainees somehow loosed their moorings to humanity, and began behaving as sadists, perverts and criminals.

The catalog of confirmed atrocities is huge. Consider just one paragraph from a long and horrifying tory on Friday by Tim Golden of The Times about the torture and brutal deaths of two Afghan inmates at the hands of U.S. troops:

"In sworn statements to Army investigators, soldiers describe one female interrogator with a taste for humiliation stepping on the neck of one prostrate
detainee and kicking another in the genitals. They tell of a shackled prisoner being forced to roll back and forth on the floor of a cell, kissing the boots of
his two interrogators as he went. Yet another prisoner is made to pick plastic bottle caps out of a drum mixed with excrement and water as part of a strategy
to soften him up for questioning."

These were among the milder abuses to come to light. The continuum of bad behavior that has been a hallmark of the so-called war on terror extends from
this kind of activity to incidents of extreme torture and death.

Neither the troops nor the American public signed on for a war in Iraq that would last many years. And I can't believe there are many Americans who wanted
their military sullied by the wanton behavior of the torture crowd.

The troops who do their jobs honestly and diligently, and who fight bravely when they have to, have been betrayed by leaders who encouraged abusive
behavior and allowed atrocities to flourish.

Mr. Rumsfeld has driven the military into a ruinous quagmire, and there is no evidence at all thathe's capable of finding a serviceable route out.
 
I don't want the self-righteous, ego-maniacal, SOB on the ropes, I want him dangling from a rope.

Rumple Foreskin :mad:
 
thebullet said:
. . . Recruiters. . . began abandoning admission standards and signing up individuals who were physically, mentally or morally unfit for service. . .
Could this not be an example of like attracting like?
 
Virtual_Burlesque said:
Could this not be an example of like attracting like?
Close, Burley, but IMHO, no cigar. It's more like birdbrains of a feather, flocking together; wouldn't you agree?

Rumple Foreskin :cool:
 
Rumple Foreskin said:
Close, Burley, but IMHO, no cigar. It's more like birdbrains of a feather, flocking together; wouldn't you agree?

Rumple Foreskin :cool:
The way I understood the article, it is the absence of flocking together that's doing in that old flocker, Rumsfeld. :confused:
 
The generals are telling us now that the U.S. is likely to be bogged down in Iraq for years...

No one seems to be talking about when we might leave Iraq, as though it doesn't matter now that the election is over. :mad:
 
LadyJeanne said:
No one seems to be talking about when we might leave Iraq, as though it doesn't matter now that the election is over. :mad:
What the heck, the Downing Street Memo is barely visible past the coverage of Lara Bush's magical Open Sesame Street, Egypt tour. :rolleyes:
 
What the Bush administration has right now is a problem.

They have built their long-term mission statement around the concept: perpetual war for perpetual peace. Iraq is supposed to be the first stage of a domino effect as America spreads democracy throughout the middle east, securing semi-long term oil for the US and forming psuedo-Republics whose leaders are in thrall to the White House.

Unfortuantely, we're about 2 years behind schedule. Iraq fell just like it was supposed to and then...

What the fuck happened after that? We should be through Iran, knocking on Syria, and negotiating the end of Saudi Arabia by now. Instead, we're still stuck in fuckin' Iraq! Who'da figured? (Well, I did, for one.)

The next stage is the draft. We don't have a big enough army to sustain the administration's war plans. We don't have a big enough army to finish off Iraq. What's worse, no one is enlisting and no one is re-enlisting. So the administration grabs National Guard troops and sends them off to hell for a year or two while their families swing by their short hairs.

My wife has been insisting that the draft is next (she had a long talk with our son about leaving the country believe it or not). I think the one thing that will get these arrogant conservative assholes off their lazy asses is the thought that their little boys and girls will have to go fight in some arabian hell hole for some cause that they don't understand.

Is it terrorism? No. Is it WMD's? No. Is it democracy? Uh, maybe. But then again who gives a shit if there is democracy in the middle east. Well maybe intellectually we can support it, but at the cost of our own children? Screw that!

That will be the thinking of all those self-righteous relgious fanatics that have been mindlessly supporting this insane war. Send someone else's kid, but don't send mine. Okay, it's great to be an American and everything, but do you expect us to actually sacrifice?

If and when the draft comes to a vote, this country will explode.
 
thebullet said:
. . . The next stage is the draft. . .
I may have hallucinated this, but I feel certain Rumsfeld said: "Read my lipsNo draft!"



Perhaps he was only clarifying his bar order. :rolleyes:
 
VB:
Bar order, yes.

I may have hallucinated this, but I feel certain Rumsfeld said: "Read my lips — No draft!"

Didn't Bush Sr say "Read My Lips, no tax hike?"

VB, they are getting desperate. The talk is that the administration is going to try to sneak a draft through as an adendum to some other bill. I'm not sure of the particulars and my wife is asleep. She's been following the behind-the-scenes story about the draft for a long time now. She expects the move towards a draft to happen very soon.

If not, Iraq is probably lost.
 
Virtual_Burlesque said:
What the heck, the Downing Street Memo is barely visible past the coverage of Lara Bush's magical Open Sesame Street, Egypt tour. :rolleyes:

Eleanor Roosevelt, she ain't. Nor is she Jackie Kennedy.

Apparently, Laura's seeing a 'springtime of hope across the Middle East...'

I wonder where she bought her rose-colored glasses?
 
There are stories of preparations for a draft, ie., activating 'selective service' committees. Nonetheless it's political suicide.

Look, the war is 1/3 privatized already; maybe the US will just ante up and let Black Water or some 'security company' handle to the matter. Probably one pro mercenary is better at killing than three national guard pharmacists any time.

Further, it's unclear how much 'private agents' under contract to a private company have to worry about Geneva, etc. Half the problem is that the Abu Ghraib torturers are mostly soldiers (civilians have faded away).

GWB (Cheney, Rummy, etc.) seems not to have learned the lesson of Ronald Reagan --fund those you will forget, and for quick glorious victories, pick places like Grenada.
 
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Pure:

All you say makes sense. If they can buy it, they will. But can they?

I'm stickin' with the draft scenario. It more neatly fits my preconception that the far right doesn't give a damn about individuals. I know I have a one track mind. :devil:
 
Mercenary Troops

Virtually every successful World Power historically has used Foreign troops to do its soldiering overseas. Britain had its Gurkha regiments, France the Foreign Legion, The Ottoman Empire its Janissaries even the Romans used primarily foreign troops.

Whilst the elite soldiery of the USA is very good Marines & Specialist groups, it is pretty obvious that in a successful economic period the US Army has been reduced to recruiting some very inadequate people. Sometimes the desperation for recruits has made the Army look like an extension of social security administration rather than a fighting force.

Is their any constitutional impediment to the US recruiting A Foreign Force, basing them overseas and using them to do the dirty work of actually fighting. I would guess you could get a much better educated recruit at about 25% of the cost that an American national would be. Any thoughts? :devil:
 
Is their any constitutional impediment to the US recruiting A Foreign Force, basing them overseas and using them to do the dirty work of actually fighting. I would guess you could get a much better educated recruit at about 25% of the cost that an American national would be. Any thoughts?

Geez, Ishtat, that's fucking brilliant. We can outsource the army! My son has been looking for a job for a year because most of the jobs in his field have been sent to India. The least those fuckin' Indians can do is shoot a few Iraqis for us!

The US can be the next Roman Empire. Now are we going to bring in Germans to be the Praetorian Guard?
 
Countries and empires may use foreign troops, but if they depend on them, they fall.

And mercenaries are even worse.

One day the mercs think the following thoughts.

First, "We have weapons, are willing to fight and are poor."

Second, "Our employers don't have weapons, are not willing to fight and are rich."

The conclusion then come to is pretty much inescapable.

On the original post, Rumsfeld is not going to suffer for his incompetence. The world he and his compatriots come from, that of crony capitalism, cares not a jot for competence. In that world, the 'correct figures' can always be created to show that they are indeed competent.

Reality has no interest for them, never has. They chase a perfect dream and nothing will stop it from coming true.
 
I find it amusing that Laura Bush went all the way to Egypt and her biggest news story was appearing with Muppets. :rolleyes:

(1) The Bushes have a head for it.

(2). No doubt they remind her of conversations with her husband.

(3). Who else in Egypt would be willing to appear publically with a Bush.

(4). "Christ! My customer! She only come in for a demi-wave, she'll come out looking like a flippin' Muppet!"Julie Walters in “Educating Rita.”
 
thebullet said:
Geez, Ishtat, that's fucking brilliant. We can outsource the army! My son has been looking for a job for a year because most of the jobs in his field have been sent to India. The least those fuckin' Indians can do is shoot a few Iraqis for us!

The US can be the next Roman Empire. Now are we going to bring in Germans to be the Praetorian Guard?

Well. Who do you think has been paying for the Uzbeks, Bulgarians and Ukranians serving in Iraq. The US is already closer to this 'solution' than you might think!
 
ishtat, exactly!

the 'alliance of the willing' is mostly US client states and those benefiting from lots of US military aid and trade. so, although the soldiers from those states may not be 'mercenary,' their government is, and is pimping them out.

Ishtat Is there any constitutional impediment to the US recruiting A Foreign Force, basing them overseas and using them to do the dirty work of actually fighting. I would guess you could get a much better educated recruit at about 25% of the cost that an American national would be. Any thoughts?

A foreign citizen, besides serving in his country's army on loan to the US, can come to the US and volunteer: "Sign me up!" And he will be taken unless from a hostile nation. Some Canadians did this in the Vietnam war. Further immigrants and--get this --ILLEGAL immigrants can and do serve! As to the 'base' where stationed, that's a minor issue. Guantanamo will do quite well.
----

This is a solution to the illegal immigrant problem: Grant citizenship after say 3 years of army service, and citizenship for the whole family after 6 years.
 
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You speak about no one enlisting and reenlisting, this sin't totally true. My husband (active Duty Air Force) has been in the process of reenlisting for months now and all he is getting are road blacks. The Air force has drawn enlistments to almosa a halt. they also are denying CJR's(reenlistment requests) to almost everyone. This administration has its priorities really screwed up.
 
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