Romance/gay Vs. Incest Erotica: An ARGUMENT!

[yeti8080k]

There are ofcourse always exceptions to the rule, and in my own defence I don't claim to be an incredibly good writer myself, but this is what I feel:

1.) Winning gay/romantic-erotica seem to me to consistently pursue a plot-driven, emotional explorations, while with most wining/hot incest stories the plot is very secondary. Its all beating off.

2.) The use of language and sentence construction is completely different. Romance/Gay erotica seems more like professional romance, with a deliberate use of imaginative phrases to create a seductive atmosphere. With incest, its all about "cocks", "pussies" and statements like "It felt so good!".

Do you think this is a simple question of different styles in writing? A different audience perhaps? The topic of incest simply attracts a different KIND of author?

Or, is it a matter of quality. The topic of incest simply doesn't attract good writers?

OR, am I simply being rediculously picky and there's no difference in overall writing styles between romance/gay and incest categories at all?

 

[minsue]

Yes .

 

[BlackShanglan]

I didn't come here for an argument!

(Sorry, someone had to say it.)

Honestly? Meaning no offense to anyone here - because I know that there are will-written incest stories - that's 90% of why I don't read incest stories. It's true that incest is not my personal kink; I don't really comprehend it as a desire in and of itself. But I've read stories that were not my personal kink which nonetheless managed to entice me through good writing that communicated to me not just what happened, but why it was kinky and exciting. In fact, I once made it through a scat story that normally would utterly and completely repulse me, and found myself quite excited - because the writing was fantastic. Unfortunately, the incest stories I happen to have read - which no doubt were not the best of the genre - were nearly all of the style that yeti describes.

I will add, too, that I have trouble finding BDSM stories that I really like. It's not that they give no thought to personality/emotional relationships, but more that I am easily bored with the elevation of submission to the highest and at times only achievement of the personality. I rarely feel like I'm reading about real people, or people I would really care to know.

I would love to see good stories in either of these categories. However, I admit that I've given up reading both because it was so unrewarding. I can't tell whether it's that the people who write them have very different ideas about what is exciting, or whether, like porn films, they are being eaten by their own built-up conventions. Certainly romance has its own conventions as well, as does the gay category. Everything does, really, but in some areas it seems easier to find works outside of the conventions than in others.

Shanglan

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I'd definitely be leaning toward #5.

The one thing that those three categories have in common and that it separates them from all others is the importance of plot over descriptions of sex. It's the seduction that matters, the characters' inner conflicts, much more than the sex itself. In very few other categories can a successful story prolong itself for so long without an actual, full-blown sex scene, but in Romance and Incest by definition and in Gay Male by tradition, that predominance of conflict over sex is almost inescapable. The best (and winning, as you referred to them) stories in the Incest category are as well written as those in any other category, if not better.

The only difference is that Incest attracts a number of readers and writers far greater than any of the other two categories, and that implies a lot of great authors that sometimes get diluted in a lot of crappy ones.

 

[LadyJeanne]

I've only read one incest author whose stories I enjoyed - hers were excellent. It's not my kink so I stay out of the category, for the most part. Of course, this doesn't prevent me from having opinions.

I tend to think that readers/writers of incest (exception noted above) are immature and the writing reflects that. I could be off-base, but the few stories I've read seem to be written by people who have never actually had sex and find their outlet by peeking through partially open doors to glimpse their sisters' boobs while she sleeping naked, or moms initiating their sons into sex.

Edited cause I forgot daddies having sex with the step-daughters they catch masturbating.

 

[AppleBiter]

Well, I wouldn't know because I don't read either category (simply not my taste), but I do have something to say here. Just because something is hardcore doesn't mean that the person who wrote it isn't a good writer. For instance, I write very hardcore with lots of "cock and pussy" because when I read erotica, I'm reading it to get off . . . not to get involved in some deep plot. To me, the plot is secondary.

I just feel (personally) that I'm reading the writing for the SEX SCENES, period. I could give a shit about what leads up to the sex or what happens after the sex. A little bit of plot is okay, but too much plot is a lot like producing a porno, waiting an hour and a half to show the first sex scene, and trying to pass it off as an epic blockbuster with love and betrayal. Just give me the porn! That's why I'm watching it to begin with! If I come across something that's too long and drawn out, I will skip to the good part. (I know I'm not alone in this, either.)

Does this make me a person of lower standards or an obviously shitty writer? No! It simply seperates my tastes from the tastes of some others who would prefer a different sort of erotica. That's all.

So, just because you don't write an epic novel of the ages, doesn't make you a shitty writer. And, just because you like to read smut doesn't make you a person of lower standards. Hooray for smut!!

*climbing off my soapbox*,

AppleBiter

 

[LadyJeanne]

Well, I wouldn't know because I don't read either category (simply not my taste), but I do have something to say here. Just because something is hardcore doesn't mean that the person who wrote it isn't a good writer. For instance, I write very hardcore with lots of "cock and pussy" because when I read erotica, I'm reading it to get off . . . not to get involved in some deep plot. To me, the plot is secondary.

I just feel (personally) that I'm reading the writing for the SEX SCENES, period. I could give a shit about what leads up to the sex or what happens after the sex. A little bit of plot is okay, but too much plot is a lot like producing a porno, waiting an hour and a half to show the first sex scene, and trying to pass it off as an epic blockbuster with love and betrayal. Just give me the porn! That's why I'm watching it to begin with! If I come across something that's too long and drawn out, I will skip to the good part. (I know I'm not alone in this, either.)

Does this make me a person of lower standards or an obviously shitty writer? No! It simply seperates my tastes from the tastes of some others who would prefer a different sort of erotica. That's all.

So, just because you don't write an epic novel of the ages, doesn't make you a shitty writer. And, just because you like to read smut doesn't make you a person of lower standards. Hooray for smut!!

*climbing off my soapbox*,

AppleBiter

*jumps up and down*

Read my stories! I don't do plot, just sex!

 

[AppleBiter]

*jumps up and down*

Read my stories! I don't do plot, just sex!

Oh, I am so there, baby!!

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

Both of the genres that you have mentioned include differing styles which different authors employ to best communicate their theme. Of course, these writers vary not only in their theme, but also in ambition and ability.

The same is true in all the other categories.

 

[yui]

I'm staying out of this. I write incest. I don't think it is poorly written or trite as a whole, but it is mine, so I might be a poor judge of its quality. I will say that I've read bad stories by bad writers in every category and the supposition that all incest stories are lacking when compared to gay/romance stories seems ridiculous.

Luck to all,

Yui

 

[Stup Dity]

Here we go again.

My kink is normal but yours is perverted.

I thought smut writers were tolerant types. Guess that's a stereotype, huh.


Stup Dity


Edited to add:

If it's great literature you're looking for go to the fucking library. You won't find it here.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Word.

 

[yui]

Here we go again.

My kink is normal but yours is perverted.

I thought smut writers were tolerant types. Guess that's a stereotype, huh.


Stup Dity


Edited to add:

If it's great literature you're looking for go to the fucking library. You won't find it here.

*standing on chair, clapping enthusiastically*





And Lauren, I meant to tell you earlier, your post was very well stated. Kudos!

 

[BigAndTall]

*standing on chair, clapping enthusiastically*





And Lauren, I meant to tell you earlier, your post was very well stated. Kudos!

I am not into incest posts but want to go on record that I enjoy reading Yui as she is a terrific writer. And I do read hers even though its not my genera.



Edit, the person that started the thread btw is an incest writter so I don't think this is a "incest is wrong" thread, just a comment by them about writing on that in stories.

 

[yui]

I am not into incest posts but want to go on record that I enjoy reading Yui as she is a terrific writer. And I do read hers even though its not my genera.

Thank you, BigAndTall! http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/diverse/redface.gif I really appreciate your kind words!

 

[rgraham666]

*jumps up and down*

Read my stories! I don't do plot, just sex!

Oh horseshit. You do plot just fine. Just not a lot of it.

Me?

I could care less. I write the story I want to write.

Sometimes it's a 'quick piece of smut'.

Others I spend a lot of time building the characters.

So far, my smut and other stuff seems to attract pretty much the same amount of attention, although my smut generally has lower scores (too literary )

But I don't care. I write the stories I want.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Oh horseshit. You do plot just fine. Just not a lot of it.

Me?

I could care less. I write the story I want to write.

Sometimes it's a 'quick piece of smut'.

Others I spend a lot of time building the characters.

So far, my smut and other stuff seems to attract pretty much the same amount of attention, although my smut generally has lower scores (too literary )

But I don't care. I write the stories I want.

To quote Lauren: Word.

Some of my so-called gay erotica has plot. Some is just fucking.

 

[rgraham666]

To quote Lauren: Word.

Some of my so-called gay erotica has plot. Some is just fucking.

(Does one of those fancy handshakes the homies are so fond of)

 

[yeti8080k]

Some Comments

Edit, the person that started the thread btw is an incest writter so I don't think this is a "incest is wrong" thread, just a comment by them about writing on that in stories.

Yay I've got a discussion going!

As BigandTall rightly pointed out, I'm an incest writer, though I'm still "learning" how to write right now. MY ideal would be to see more incest stories with the character development of top romance/gay writers. That's my bias, take it or leave it... I'm all for emotional stories.

However, I want to ask another question:

Can there be good character construction without extensive writing? (ie: so the story isn't, like, three plus pages long?)

MY opinion is yes... I think it CAN be done. I think its possible to construct the characters through sex scenes. I think its harder, though... I think my favorite ones are constructed in this way. Latest one I've read is one by Uncle Bert titled "Amy falls in love", and that's just a one page erotica.

 

[Guest]

Both of the genres that you have mentioned include differing styles which different authors employ to best communicate their theme. Of course, these writers vary not only in their theme, but also in ambition and ability.

The same is true in all the other categories.

Well said.

 

[she_is_my_addiction]

Sorry, but I wouldn't jump to conclusion like that.

I've read some incest stories that are beautifully written. It's just like any writing. Some is shitty and some isn't. It depends on the quality of the writer.

 

[Never]

Yeti:
"Romance/Gay erotica seems more like professional romance, with a deliberate use of imaginative phrases to create a seductive atmosphere. With incest, its all about "cocks", "pussies" and statements like "It felt so good!".

Do you think this is a simple question of different styles in writing? A different audience perhaps? The topic of incest simply attracts a different KIND of author?"

Much professional romance isn't that great – but that's tangential, isn't it?

Incest is far more taboo than straight or gay romance. The audience isn't really looking for a candlelight dinner with their mother. They're getting off on breaking rules.


Stup Dity:
"My kink is normal but yours is perverted.

I thought smut writers were tolerant types. Guess that's a stereotype, huh."

Please explain to me how you know the kinks of each particular board member. Do you have a camera in everyone's living room?

 

[rikaaim]

(Does one of those fancy handshakes the homies are so fond of)

That gets a well deserved chuckle from me.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

For what it's worth and IMHO, every category has it's own unique characteristics and conventions. Stories in some categories, such as romance, gay, lesbian, and incest seem to do better in the voting when there's been some build-up.

There are two however's, however. This is only a tendency, not a hard-and-fast rule. And it only applies to voting, not to the quality of the writing. "Stroke" stories can be, and often are, well crafted. All too often, character driven stories are poorly written pieces of dull, pretentious crap, IMHO.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[4degrees]

But what about the romantic/gay/incest combo?
I wrote one, and I've heard it's pretty good.
But maybe it's dull and pretentious as well.
Gets me off, though.