Romance category

[LadyVer]

1) I just noticed that on the story site there isn't a description for the Romance category. It's the only category currently without a description. Which is odd to me, but I wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't gone to look, because I wanted to post a thread about the category. From what I remember, the previous description said something about candlelight and soft music, meaning it's not all about a hard fuck.

2) Why is it so damn hard for writers to comprehend that if they're going to write a story, they should at least know what the conventions are for the category they're writing in?

3) Apparently, writers think anyone can write romance, because they've been in a relationship and have had sex, or a hard fuck, ergo: romance.

I don't know what else to say. The end.

 

[oggbashan]

I have had comments and feedback that some of my stories in other categories SHOULD be in the Romance category; and some I put in that category SHOULDN'T be there.

As with all the categories, the reader's idea doesn't always match the author's.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

1) I just noticed that on the story site there isn't a description for the Romance category. It's the only category currently without a description. Which is odd to me, but I wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't gone to look, because I wanted to post a thread about the category. From what I remember, the previous description said something about candlelight and soft music, meaning it's not all about a hard fuck.

2) Why is it so damn hard for writers to comprehend that if they're going to write a story, they should at least know what the conventions are for the category they're writing in?

3) Apparently, writers think anyone can write romance, because they've been in a relationship and have had sex, or a hard fuck, ergo: romance.

I don't know what else to say. The end.

I've stumbled over Bible size tutorials for writing romance, and the category is popular...whatever romance is...I haven't a clue. So! Hoist your own flag with your own description, and post your thread.

 

[Handley_Page]

Frankly, I don't think the "Romance" category should be all about the hard fuck, even if the protagonists wind up that way, anyway.
Rather I reckon it's HOW they got there, complete with all the trials and tribulations of a modern life.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

https://www.rwa.org/p/cm/ld/fid=578

Here yuh go.

 

[EverLux]

I have had comments and feedback that some of my stories in other categories SHOULD be in the Romance category; and some I put in that category SHOULDN'T be there.

As with all the categories, the reader's idea doesn't always match the author's.

This is exactly what happened with my contest entry.
Even with nine pages of romantic buildup and a HEA, the fuck at the end was a little too hard for Romance readers. That's fine. I can respect the category. So it was moved to Group the very next day... and got a comment that it should be in Romance.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Frankly, I don't think the "Romance" category should be all about the hard fuck, even if the protagonists wind up that way, anyway.
Rather I reckon it's HOW they got there, complete with all the trials and tribulations of a modern life.

Then most of my stories are Romance, even a couple containing non-con. But I don't think I'd move most of them there...

I'll insert my standard rant here: categories don't work. And HP here has his finger on why. If you set stroke stories aside, a good story is about some conflict or problem that gets solved (or occasionally, it's a tragedy and is about how a problem should not or cannot be solved). In it, people change, or learn. Erotica, strokers aside, is no different than any other kind of writing in that regard.

I mean, Jim goes to an orgy and assfucks a couple girls. Along the way he suddenly realises that he's alone in this room of people, and his thoughs suddenly center on an old high school sweetheart that he dumped because she wouldn't butt fuck. Now, ten years later, he's realizing that he doesn't even like assfucking that much, and orgies have lost their appeal, and he's overwhelmed with regret. He suddenly gets up, washes up and walks out and sets about finding his old love, knowing he's certainly lost his chance, but he has to find out...

Does that go in Anal or Group?

Because the anal stuff means it's not going in Romance, even if Jim does find Mary and they make it right after ten years. And certainly not if Mary is happily married and Jim is realizing that at the age of 29 he's basically starting over.

If you're writing strokers, categories are probably mostly fine. They are kink-attractors ("Get yer anal here") or warning signs ("Noncon! Trigger warning! Stay out!"). But for anything else they are just meaningless. Sure, I use them to avoid stuff I don't like - I'm never going to enjoy an Incest or GM story no matter how meaningful it is. Categories help.

But in my discpline, computer science, we talk about is-a and has-a relationships. A car is-a mode of transportation, but has-a motor. A motor is-a energy transducer, but has-a carburetor or big magnets or whatever. When you compose an object in software, you think hard about the is-a verses the has-a, because it charges how you compose that object and subsequently what it does. There can be multiple is-a: A car is-a mode of transportation and is-a place to make out.

Lit treats every story as if it's a single is-a. But story objects are all about has-a. A story has anal, it isn't about anal. The same story could have romance and group. But the Is-a for the story about Jim is Personal Growth.

Every single time I finish a story and go to submit it, I hit that damn category question and I stare at it. If there's any non-con, that usually trumps other considerations. (I'm not a fan of trigger warnings but some people are and you have to honor that.) I usually end up with each chapter in a different category. It's stupid.

Institute check marks. This story has-a... and then allow multiple choice selections that list every major kink or form of relationship in existence. anal, group, romance, all checked. GM, not checked. Now people looking for GM assfucking won't run into Jim and everyone's happier.

 

[MayorReynolds]

I've been here almost four years and never even noticed a Romance category until now! What does that say about me?

The lack of description is probably what made me blind to it. I just figured any story with a focus on character development and relationship building prior to sex fit into whatever niche described it (Erotic Couplings for strangers/long term partners, Incest for family members, First Time for virgins, NonHuman for Orcs, Exhibitionist & Voyeur for flashers and window peepers, etc.) Romance sounds like a category for people who want to submit novellas and novels, but then there's an official category called Novels and Novellas.

So I guess I'm confused. Any story can focus on romance, but what makes it Romance? Must the lad wear a three piece tailored suit and whisk his lady round the ballroom before he sticks it in?

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Romance isnt just about HOW they got there. That applies to everything. Plenty of categories want character development and long slow build up.

I also don't think Romance is on some diametrically opposed scale from Stroker. A stroker CAN have romance, character and plot. Its not either/or.

I don't read in it but I would guess Romance (vs. simply romantic) has its very own flavor. Like LV said, conventions. Love, soul-mating, um ... You get the point

 

[NotWise]

1) I just noticed that on the story site there isn't a description for the Romance category. It's the only category currently without a description. Which is odd to me, but I wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't gone to look, because I wanted to post a thread about the category. From what I remember, the previous description said something about candlelight and soft music, meaning it's not all about a hard fuck.

I think it's probably better to leave the description off. The description that was there led the unwashed to believe that they could post stories there that they thought were romantic.

2) Why is it so damn hard for writers to comprehend that if they're going to write a story, they should at least know what the conventions are for the category they're writing in?

It's not so easy to figure out what the conventions are in Romance, and convention there might be more important than in any other category. I've ventured in there a few times to read what was posted and found a variety of stories, many with the comment "This doesn't belong here." Which doesn't tell possible writers what *does* belong there.

I made the mistake of posting a story to Romance that I thought had a romantic ending. It was viciously one-bombed by those Romantic folk, then I started asking what the problem was. It turns out that the readers in that category want stories to fit a specific formula; the formula was described to me independently by several different authors -- including the OP if I remember right.

3) Apparently, writers think anyone can write romance, because they've been in a relationship and have had sex, or a hard fuck, ergo: romance.

I don't know what else to say. The end.

Why shouldn't people think they can write romance? When did anyone place qualification requirements on any category on Lit?

Different people have different ideas about what romance is. When I looked for a dictionary definition of the genre I came up with things that had nothing at all to do with the formula that's expected in the Romance category.

My lone experience posting to Romance left me with a bad taste in my mouth and a fairly low opinion of the category, which is odd since it reputedly contains some of the best writing on Lit.

 

[sr71plt]

1) I just noticed that on the story site there isn't a description for the Romance category.

I don't think the description has been missing long. Someone mentioned this on another thread too. Did you report that it's missing to Laurel. (I would, but she'd call me a troll for pointing it out.)

 

[8letters]

Where does a Romance story typically end? First fuck? Commitment to being boyfriend/girlfriend? Engagement?

 

[sr71plt]

Happily ever after.

 

[Handley_Page]

Where does a Romance story typically end? First fuck? Commitment to being boyfriend/girlfriend? Engagement?

Read a few and find out.
Be warned though; they can be quite wordy, long and almost literate.

 

[EverLux]

Be warned though; they can be quite wordy, long and almost literate.

I think we've just found the new category description

 

[sr71plt]

I think we've just found the new category description

I think any definition must include a happy ever after ending.

 

[EverLux]

I think any definition must include a happy ever after ending.

I would love to find a story in that category that doesn't end with a happily ever after, just so I could read through all the hate comments. I'm guessing they'd rival LW.

 

[SamScribble]

I think any definition must include a happy ever after ending.

Or maybe must imply a happy ever after ending

 

[sr71plt]

Or maybe must imply a happy ever after ending

I don't think that's enough. When I don't pin an ending down explicitly (and sometimes even when I do), I'm asked where the rest of the story (that ends in happily ever after) is.

 

[NotWise]

The description could be, "Man and woman meet, overcome obstacles to build a relationship, then live happily ever after."

Other romantic stories and romantic stories with explicit sex belong somewhere else.

Laurel doesn't seem to entirely agree with that definition of the category, because she allows people freedom to hang themselves by posting other things there.

 

[GoldenCojones]

Read a few and find out.
Be warned though; they can be quite wordy, long and almost literate.

Translation: They can be quite Boring. I went in there once looking for a nice romantic story to read my wife. I fell asleep and when I finally woke up it was 2015.

 

[NotWise]

Translation: They can be quite Boring. I went in there once looking for a nice romantic story to read my wife. I fell asleep and when I finally woke up it was 2015.

The romance stories that my wife (and daughters) used to read were full of action and adventure, often with female heroines capable of amazing feats, like dashing across Ireland on horseback the day after bearing her 6th child.

And of course, she still had a slim waist and large, full breasts that all men yearned for.

I don't know how those stories would go over in Romance.

 

[PennLady]

Or maybe must imply a happy ever after ending

I think that's close to the mark.

All of my romances have HEA implied, or what I call "happy for now," which I guess most people take as HEA. I have never ended a romance with a commitment, I don't think -- no engagement, no marriage, no pregnancy, etc. I think the closest I've come is people asking/agreeing to live together. One of them (Nothing Gets Through) doesn't even have an "I love you."

This is not to say people haven't remarked on it but I don't recall there's been much complaint about it.

So like so many things, it probably depends on the story and the reader.

 

[Irreverent1]

Where does a Romance story typically end? First fuck? Commitment to being boyfriend/girlfriend? Engagement?

Isn't Romance more about the journey and not linked to a destination or end? After all, in War stories there have been whirlwind romances and then the guy goes off to war and is never heard from again. The romance remains though. Marriages are said to have had the romance die long ago and still the marriage continues so I don't think it's an end we're looking for.

I could be off but I think Romance is about a specific moment or epic in time between two, possibly more (it's the 21st century), people that is the euphoria of first meetings and first feeling and the pursuit of that feeling long term or for as long as possible. War always looms...

Or maybe just until they finally bang. Who knows?

 

[LadyVer]

I appreciate all the comments. I would like to add a few points.

First, why is the Romance category the only category now without a description? Seriously. (I saw your comment, Pilot. Thank you.)

Second, I went to the RWA site before I posted this thread, and I wasn't too impressed with what they had to say. But that JBJ took the time to post the RWA site is cool. Seriously.

Third, I would like to believe that any writer who is going to post a SciFi or Fantasy story has actually read SFF stories. Because, if they haven't read them, don't want to read them, what the fuck makes them believe they can write one?

Fourth, Romance outsells every other fiction genre.

Finally, when I read a Romance story on Lit and it begins with the female wanting to masturbate and in the end she has anonymous sex with a stranger in a cinema, and the story is only one page, I am going to assume the writer has never read Romance and wouldn't do it if they were paid.

Thanks again for all the comments.